Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

[Soft Serve]

V This makes me post stupid long but damn. V

 

[Frost | Odds]

Jesus **** how do you do that

 

[Soft Serve]

Premium master race.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

OKAY SO SCREW THE BANANA VORTEX THE **** JUST ISNT PRACTICAL CUZ **** SO MANY HOLES.


BUT! BasedAfrica sent me a new setup, which should probably have a thread of its own. But here it is! Good stuff really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQB0DDbN8J8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Frost | Odds]

Damn that looks really legit dude

 

[jtm94]

I kinda like it. Will try next time I play.

 

[SpiderMad]

Eli/Guru kinda knew this when they implemented the air dodge cancel into it, it's up to y'all to utilize it

 

[jtm94]

I'm so bad at AGT down for some reason, I think it's in my head.

I really need to work on playing Diddy without bananas for a bit, I've been using them too much perchance and use them as a crutch.

 

[DLA]

I was just fuxin with this the other day. I do think it's useful for a mixup and it's a lot better than just jumping off of them and WDing down, because you get a lot more time to do react if you trip them with a banana instead. But It seems like you can combo a lot of characters out of side B slap at low/mid %'s and that often seems more effective than just getting a trip off of a side B. I think the best time to use the sand trap would be if they're at high % and you need to get a KO, because you're right, no one knows to tech the side B jump, so you're just one tech chase away from a KO.

Against spacies/fast fallers, however, I think the slap is almost always going to be preferable, because it's always going to force a knockdown at any %, and you can combo into a smash attack at high %'s. edit: also I think spacies would be able to shine out of the sand trap at low %'s.

 

[Hashtag]

Why the name "sand trap" Disqo?

Edit: I remember you showing this to me at mayhem earlier this month too lol.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Props definitely go to guru and eli, I'm just referring to the options you have if not going for the kill @ SpiderMad

@ DLA youre also totally right, getting combos off the slap is super productive, and ive really only used this to get kills. But my experience with this is that it extends your combo. After sandtrap, you still have the ability to follow up just the same, this is just a trap, as the name implies. Ive already tested this on multiple players, and this has always given me good/great results if not just as good/great results next to combos after slap.

 

[Lex Jewthor]

Anyone else noticing some slight 'jank' trying to AGT after a SH peanut? Sometimes, regardless of which direction I actually input air dodge, Diddy airdodges forward and don't throw. Been messing around with it a lot to try to figure it out and it seems to happen when I air dodge ASAP?

In any case. I need to Bair more.

 

[DLA]

Can't say that's ever happened to me. And yes Bair is our best spacing aerial, use plenty of it.

 

[jtm94]

I tried the sand trap out and it looks incredibly flashy, but it isn't my style. I just like the slap, it does combo into a lot of things at low percents, and even gives direct KO move follow ups at higher percents on most of the cast.

Today I pulled off Diddy's double meteor on a friend. dash attack off the stage into dair and then immediate UpB and meteored with both. It looked far too awesome....

What should I be using dtilt for? I kind of get the uses of utilit, and ftilt, but dtilt is just weird to me.

And does he have any practical uses for his autocancel windows? I saw in the frame data that he has them on aerials, but I don't know what I have to do to actually make use of them, or are they just niche? Like I know if you short hop Ganon's nair at peak then fastfall you immediately autocancel, but with Diddy I can't figure them out.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Dtilt is a great poke when you don't wanna overcommit. It can also combo into fair when opponents are off guard.

Believe me man, when I saw guru use this to kill, I thought it was flashy and unnecessary as well. But once you use it, study it, incorporate it, it becomes easier to see when its possible and even when its more probable. If you keep doing the same thing you've always done, how will you achieve things you've never achieved? Think outside the box, break habits, experiment!!! Please! Its for your own good!

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Oh BTW, the dair to upb spike is called the double dip.

 

[jtm94]

I was pumped to pull it off on Link because I struggle against Link with every char I play.

e.o I will try to keep at the sand trap, but it seems like too much for me to commit too. I'll keep trying footstools into banana as well.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Keep thinking like that and it'll ALWAYS be too much for you to commit to. Just sayin

 

[jtm94]

Okay... v.v

 

[DLA]

Anyone else use the back hit of Dsmash for edgeguarding? It's much more disjointed than the front hit and seems to hit lower as well.

Also I've been working on Usmash OoS... it's a really interesting option since most of the hitboxes are on his back side. It makes it harder for opponents to cross you up, not to mention it's perhaps our best combo starter.

 

[Hashtag]

You guys should try late Dairy onto upsmash for a vert launch at low percents. If you do it right in mix ups, it will catch your opponent more often than not.

Free damage to chase.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I got foxed this weekend. 6-0 wrecking in grand finals. It hurts. So much.

 

[GuruKid]

Welcome to the world of Fox.

Do you have Vids?

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Yeah, they'll be up eventually

 

[Soft Serve]

I didnt watch most of the set disqo but from what i did see, rob was completely giving up on controling the ledge and just opted to hold center stage, but you were still recovering far onstage instead of just grabbing ledge and working your way back from there. You got up smashed around 6 times because you were up bing towards him.
Thats all i really saw though, i came in just after he reset the bracket.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Yeah I did that. Repeatedly. I was too nervous about him punishing me by the ledge, so I stupidly kept going to the center.

Not wanting to get hit actually gets you hit sometimes.

I had beaten okami in winners. Then he went fox. Bleh. He did beat me with pika one game with an absolutely sick gimp

 

[Soft Serve]

What stages would I want to take an Ivy too? I'm honestly not sure where Ivy is good and bad.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Bf, FD, dreamland,

 

[batistabus]

Real question - Does Diddy truly need two bananas? It seems like both being on the field at once devolves the game into something else, and I haven't seen it add much depth to Diddy's play style.

 

[jtm94]

One banana for each player.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Diddy doesn't REQUIRE two bananas all the time, no.
Two can be very beneficial for diddy tho, it adds that extra option or that extra pressure, which is very needed because of diddys required commitment to any of his other pressure oriented moves.

I've had a lot of people say diddy doesn't need two bananas, but I honestly believe that people will catch on to just how much knowing bananas will effect theMU vs diddys. How much of a crutch bananas can be be. Because there is such a thing as autopilot diddy.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Another thing @ batistabus

Looking for depth in diddys play style is subjective. What is your definition of depth? How far, how deep into the character are you talking about? Because that will always be shallow. If you're looking for depth, then you should study players and thought patterns. That's where meta game begins and ends and begins again. That's where even the simplest idea can be the greatest mixup. That's where two bananas will add "depth".

 

[jtm94]

Play someone who actually uses the items instead of ignorantly avoiding them and you will find your depth.

My Diddy vs good players always turns into a match of who can use items better.
I've even been on the receiving end of bananas and made the Diddy player feel like he had no control over his own bananas.

 

[batistabus]

always turns into a match of who can use items better.

This is what I'm referring to.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

So what you're saying is that because you're forced to learn how to deal with bananas, it suddenly becomes "not smash"?

 

[Praxis]

Real question - Does Diddy truly need two bananas? It seems like both being on the field at once devolves the game into something else, and I haven't seen it add much depth to Diddy's play style.

It adds tremendous depth actually and is almost required with P:M's banana teching mechanic. Keeping one banana on the ground gives a huge limitation to the opponent's movement ability, which is what Diddy needs to get hits. Picture this- There is a banana to the opponent's left. Diddy throws and hits the opponent with his second banana. Diddy has no guaranteed followup because the opponent instantly techs. However, if he rolls left, he will trip again, so he's limited to teching in place or teching right, which Diddy can cover.

Theoretically, he *can* tech left, trip and tech left again, but Diddy has time to chase this.

Diddy needs two bananas for stage control. One on the ground, one in hand. And it's a very interesting gameplay style from Brawl. Removing the second banana would make Diddy very bland, IMO.

(Also, IMO, the decision to remove Snake's second grenade was one of the worst decisions the PMBR made in PM too, as it removed a lot of interesting gameplay from Snake with the ability to control the second grenade.)

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Dude believe me, if diddy could only pull one banana, it would make diddys hella campy.

 

[Soft Serve]

If I could only pull one banana I'd never let go of it if what I was using it for wasn't guaranteed. If I threw it out and they took it and just Dash danced with it, I would probably start falling apart neutral-game wise.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Forever making diddys campy^^^^

Having a banana NEVER makes diddy approach unless its deliberately baited or your banana game is just worse than the diddys.

Either way, Diddy Haters of America, you'll have to learn bananas. Whether its one or two, its gonna be just as nerve racking

 

[batistabus]

Diddy needs two bananas for stage control.

No he doesn't. Diddy is pretty fast and has a good move set.

So what you're saying is that because you're forced to learn how to deal with bananas, it suddenly becomes "not smash"?

Not entirely. It becomes Smash where half of the interactions are throwing items and tripping.

If I could only pull one banana I'd never let go of it if what I was using it for wasn't guaranteed. If I threw it out and they took it and just Dash danced with it, I would probably start falling apart neutral-game wise.

ROB would like to have a word with you.