Kittens versus Domo-kuns - Game over, who won?

[#HBC | Dancer]

Joey is scum because he is trying to say that he doesn't think I'm scum for wagoning, but instead is for lynching me because he thinks town will be hurt by it.

Don't think Joey wants you dead simply because he thinks your play will hurt, from what I read, he was simply using that reasoning to justify not feeling bad over your lynch.

 

[Swiss]

Lol. That wasn't rolefishing. That was a loaded question or three. Rolefishing is trying to find out about someone's role, this was putting them in a position with few 'town' answers and was about roles, but not in any way his (though he may be seer).

Never brought up tunnelling with him before iirc, I only played one and a half days.

Why do you think a Gordscum flip implicates yourself?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

^If you flip town that is.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Gosh darn rabbit Swiss how do you manage to ninja just a small post?

 

[Swiss]

I think that just made my day

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

K. Joey drop that.

Ran, do you not see the parallel? Joey says "action X is bad, thus person A is scummy" in this case wagonning and Swords.

You say Joey is scum as his logic is incorrect. This is ALSO "action X is bad, thus person A is scummy".

You are applying the same faulty logic Joey is, yet accusing him of scum through that logic. Look at the game through his eyes, is he still scum? Also note that scum Joey wouldn't have the balls to be as assertive and precise as he has been in his decisions and thought, especially early game.

Now, take another look at Moth with me.

yeeesss

Joey v Ran is T v T then? I can see it.

 

[Swiss]

T v T.

Joey is definitely town, with Ran likely being town who just says things that look scummy.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

For future reference - this is all correct.

This is minor, but your 240 begs to differ.

 

[Swiss]

Could you quote them both.

 

[Swiss]

Do you know how easy it is to get bad stances from a wagon in RVS? Scum can easily manipulate a wagon on them early game because they KNOW they're not going to get lynched for it since its so early. Trying to wagon on page 2 isn't going to help at all. I'm not saying you're scum for wagoning specifically, and wagoning is not a scum tactic as a whole. However, wagoning really early in the game doesn't help town in any way, shape, or form, since scum can abuse it REALLY easily.

For example: I'm scum. You wagon me Page 2 like you did swords. I get 3 votes on me. For the sake of anything, I'll say that it's Ryker, July, and Red Ryu in that order. 9 person game. Since it's so early, all I have to say is that "Red Ryu jumped on my wagon without any reasons and put me at L-2, so that makes him scummy. I also don't like *insert player here* because they have yet to post content" and bam, you're pretty much off of me unless I have posted any legit scum tells so far.

@ "that doesn't mean I was doing that": But I think you're scum and they line up, so maybe I think that you were, especially since thats exactly what it looked like.

RVS wagons are good, but you can easily get bad stances. However from those stances you can then get legit stances via people's reactions. Basically the RVS wagon is the catalyst for information and tells to start.

Joey is right in thinking RVS wagons can be abused, but if you know to use them they're still useful.

There. You know what I meant anyway.

 

[Swiss]

2nd paragraph is what I meant to agree to previously. Which is a very good point.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Trying to work my way through this Ran vs the world stuff right now. Something I feel is worth pointing out now:

You've changed your scum reasons on me three times in the past 30 posts. What good have you done recent game? What you do before that doesn't matter if what you're doing now is absolute ****.

My fynal vote was bad, sure, but that was because I missed where he responded to Swords, which was my whole reason on him being scummy pretty much, since it was a HUGE thing going on for like 80 posts if not more. What else can I say?

Siding with Swords makes me look townie? I stated why I sided with sword in that argument, since setting up for a newb card is not pro-town at all, and that was what it looked like he was doing. If you consider that "siding just to look town", then I don't know what to say. Especially if you don't give details as to how I was siding just to look townie instead of, you know, defending what I thought about the situation, since I was asked about it.

Playing off your Moth vote as a "just to get reactions" vote instead of completely random looks like BS as well, especially since you brought it up waaay after it happened.

@Swiss: The reason I think Ran is scum is because his vote pattern reeks and his reasoning for his voting is even worse. His reads are flippant and don't even make coherent sense. His little tiff with Joey is making him look worse.

Vote: Ranmaru

I want to give Ran the benefit of the doubt and say that a lot of his actions that people are calling scummy are really more just anti-town. The point about him flipping his reads and vote around a lot is probably the best one there is, because it shows that a scum Ran is just trying to find a reason to incriminate someone.

That said, I still read it as more anti-town than actual scummy. I pick up a much more disorganized Ran than a scum Ran. I might regret reading it this way later, but nevertheless I'm placing my stance here on the matter.

 

[#HBC | J]

Zen is starting to look like a possible avenue to go down toDay (along with Gord).

You think Zen is scum?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@ J, swords, swiss: comments on this post would be appreciated. Trying to sort things out here.

I mighta missed something, but...

Done and done!

 

[Dooms]

OH MY GOD RAN

awlefawelkamwelfkm

Why did you just argue the whole "Gord or no lynch" thing if you have Moth as your second strongest scum pick?

awklemfal;wkemfa;wklmf

I am SO mad right now.

 

[Swiss]

I don't particularly like this answer as it's essentially saying "let me think of my answer first." but I'm willing to at least give you until a bit after D1 actually starts.

I humbly thank you. But would suggest you never bring this up again. Just a suggestion, mind. Not like I have a reputation for lynching people that annoy me now, is it?

Joey - what do you think of this exchange? What do you think of Moth for never mentioning this again? Is he forgetful? Does he strike you as a forgetful player? If

 

[Swiss]

Actually, I'd like for most people to weigh in on this.

 

[Dooms]

He doesn't strike me as forgetful, no. I feel that he could forget it though, since it was so early in the game. But if he showed real dislike for it, and if he really wanted an answer, then he would have brought it up again. That could make me feel that the pressure he was trying to put on you was kinda fake, but not too much.

 

[#HBC | J]

I necessarily don't see the relevance of it nor do I see the point you are trying to bring about.

 

[Swiss]

That doesn't even make any sense.

Why did he back down and not bring up a point that he thought was useful, after I threatened him with lynch. Would a (not inexperienced) townie back off like this?

 

[#HBC | J]

Isn't that just your opinion though?

You could make a point to say that he felt intimidated by you. Depends on what angle you wanna go about it.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Joey - what do you think of this exchange? What do you think of Moth for never mentioning this again? Is he forgetful? Does he strike you as a forgetful player? If

Oh wow I totally forgot about this.

Well swiss? What's your response? You've had plenty of time to think about it now.

There's also one other post that stuck out to me that no one said anything about. One sec...

 

[Tandora]

Vote Count:
Ranmaru (1): Shadow Moth
Shadow Moth(2): Swiss, Fynal
Gordito(3): Ranmaru, Sworddancer, joey
Shadow Moth (1): J

Not Voting: Zen, Gordito

WITH 9 ALIVE, IT TAKES 5 TO LYNCH!

 

[#HBC | J]

Oh wow I totally forgot about this.

Well swiss? What's your response? You've had plenty of time to think about it now.

There's also one other post that stuck out to me that no one said anything about. One sec...

And now I get your point @ Swiss.

 

[#HBC | J]

Shadow Moth(2): Swiss, Fynal
Shadow Moth (1): J

WITH 9 ALIVE, IT TAKES 5 TO LYNCH!

Tanny must be trying to tell me something.

 

[Dooms]

Lol @ the vote count hahaha.

 

[Shadow Moth]

• Moth Scum flip = Swords because he FoS'd him for being too conservative out of no where, essentially saying "Hey buddy, you are slipping up so I'll FoS you to make it seem like I am concerned". Gord because of his "Oh Swiss your Moth vote is ********". I don't think Fynal nor me would be implicated because We were the first two votes on Moth and Moth didn't particurlarly do anything worthy of bussing. That is all I can think of.

• 
  
  I don't like this. I can see why he would think Swords would be my buddy that but the Gord reason just seems BS. There's nothing wrong with calling out someone's vote when it's stupid.
  
  But the point I really wanted to make was why Zen isn't on there. If I were in someone else's postion and I saw that Moth flipped scum, I'd probably start with Zen.
  He's been defending me pretty hard. And why shouldn't he? He hasn't even been mentioned for it.
  Since I know I'm town this doesn't mean too much but for someone who thinks I'm scum and expects my scumflip, this should have stuck out like a sore thumb.
  
  I also don't like that I'm pretty much at the bottom of Ran's read list in this same post but later he says he'd rather take a NL than lynch me. Joey already pointed it out but I think it needs emphasizing. This really feels like he thought my lynch wasn't going anywhere so he unvoted and changed his read on me to null.
  
  Also what people are saying about Ran playing anti-town in general and how that doesn't make him scum. Yes not all anti-town play should pin someone as scummy. But his anti-town play is excessive and I don't think meta should excuse this. This isn't the kind of play that you should just sit back and accept. Even if he flipped town, I'd be okay with him as a D1 lynch, though I expect him to flip scum. His play has not been helping town as far as I can see and I want him gone toDay.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I don't like this. I can see why he would think Swords would be my buddy that but the Gord reason just seems BS. There's nothing wrong with calling out someone's vote when it's stupid.

But the point I really wanted to make was why Zen isn't on there. If I were in someone else's postion and I saw that Moth flipped scum, I'd probably start with Zen.
He's been defending me pretty hard. And why shouldn't he? He hasn't even been mentioned for it.
Since I know I'm town this doesn't mean too much but for someone who thinks I'm scum and expects my scumflip, this should have stuck out like a sore thumb.

I also don't like that I'm pretty much at the bottom of Ran's read list in this same post but later he says he'd rather take a NL than lynch me. Joey already pointed it out but I think it needs emphasizing. This really feels like he thought my lynch wasn't going anywhere so he unvoted and changed his read on me to null.

Also what people are saying about Ran playing anti-town in general and how that doesn't make him scum. Yes not all anti-town play should pin someone as scummy. But his anti-town play is excessive and I don't think meta should excuse this. This isn't the kind of play that you should just sit back and accept. Even if he flipped town, I'd be okay with him as a D1 lynch, though I expect him to flip scum. His play has not been helping town as far as I can see and I want him gone toDay.

"I didn't do it, but if I did, here's how I would of done it."

>.>

This is such a weird thing to say.

In any case, what's wrong with Ran's reasoning (besides from the fact that it's simply wrong, get to that later)? Weak distancing (which is what Ran is getting at) is usually a pretty good link between scummies, more so than someone flat out defending a scummie.

You can't really incriminate someone for what you think they should of done, unless what they should of done is mad obvious.

@Ran: That FoS wasn't out of nowhere. Fynal was talking about it previously, which is what brought my attention to it.

@J: It's starting to look that way to me. He's too removed from the general conversation for my liking. Giving reads without reasoning, as well as only basic interrogation has not convinced me in him being town. I wouldn't put him on the top of my list, but I'll out him at null scum.

 

[#HBC | J]

Zen hasn't been defending Moth though.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Btw haven't read the part about him saying no lynch yet, so no comment right now.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@J: It's starting to look that way to me. He's too removed from the general conversation for my liking. Giving reads without reasoning, as well as only basic interrogation has not convinced me in him being town. I wouldn't put him on the top of my list, but I'll out him at null scum.

Just as I say this I go back a page to see his 301. Bleh. Gotta actually read everything before I make these kind of call outs.

Brb with possibly new Zen read.

 

[#HBC | J]

I was wondering what you were getting at.

 

[Xivii]

Wait, Zen, can you walk me through why you feel Swords is scum, also tell me why Smoth leans town. I forget if you've already said the latter, but let's get it out again just in case.

It's more of an absence of a town read for Sword. Everyone else other than Gord, I have gotten a strong town read at some point and something about Sword's play is awkward, though I haven't pinpointed exactly what that is. So it's mostly POE with and IGMEOU.

Zen hasn't been defending Moth though.

I did in #301 intentionally. Smoth is obvtown.

 

[Xivii]

Sword why is it that when you catch up, you go through one post at a time?

 

[#HBC | J]

You are insane if you think anyone is obvtown at this point of the game. I only have one read I think is pretty strongly town.

 

[Xivii]

Why did it take you so long to say that?

 

[#HBC | J]

I have a tab open in this thread and another thread. I'm also watching a movie.

Useless question is useless.

 

[Xivii]

You came into the thread after I posted so no on the tab thing. And I doubt you decided to pause the movie to read my post, not reply, just to pause the movie again later and reply.

 

[#HBC | J]

It's a tv movie. Zen, how is this even relevant to the game. Or let me put it, how is it relevant to you determining my alignment or connections. Yes, I did have a tab open to this thread.

 

[Xivii]

Taking unecessarily long to respond to something is a scum tell as scum need to be careful with their answers. It's pretty simple, J.

Having a tab open doesn't explain why you weren't viewing the thread, but then were viewing the thread after I posted.