Kirby's 1.10 Buffs

[raizur]

Guys. I don't wanna be wrong on this, so help me out. Have any of you 1. gotten a copy power and then 2. lost that copy power by getting hit? I've been testing it in training mode and against a computer, I haven't seen Kirby lose his Copy ability yet.... if they changed it so he no longer loses them, this is a huge RNG buff.....

It's still in. It happened to me in tourney mode not too long ago.

 

[Asdioh]

Yeah but there's a bunch of unknown stuff (a lot relating to his B moves, I believe, because of all the changes to other characters' B moves) in the data mine.

Anyway, I just had Kirby lose his power, but it took many many minutes of testing. I hit him with a Greninja Upsmash and it finally happened.

It's still in. It happened to me in tourney mode not too long ago.

Yup

It's possible that the chance was lowered, but good luck finding that!

 

[raizur]

Yeah but there's a bunch of unknown stuff (a lot relating to his B moves, I believe, because of all the changes to other characters' B moves) in the data mine.

Anyway, I just had Kirby lose his power, but it took many many minutes of testing. I hit him with a Greninja Upsmash and it finally happened.

Yup

It's possible that the chance was lowered, but good luck finding that!

It probably did get lowered, hopefully. Thanks.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

It is harder to loss your ability., in this game in general. But could somebody test for me.
I was playing against my friend on customs, he played olimar.
When I copied his ability, my pikmin latched on to olimar and attacked, instead of hitting him once PLUS Kirby's pikmin outprioritises Olimar's. Is this new or false alarm...

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

It is harder to loss your ability., in this game in general. But could somebody test for me.
I was playing against my friend on customs, he played olimar.
When I copied his ability, my pikmin latched on to olimar and attacked, instead of hitting him once PLUS Kirby's pikmin outprioritises Olimar's. Is this new or false alarm...

It happens whenever you use hammer bash. For some reason using custom hammer with Olimar's ability causes it to use the sticky pikmin instead of the strong ones.

 

[Nickname87]

Great! Now if they could just make the a hammer a not-useless-move, Kirby would be perfect.

hammer isnt use less if you use it right

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I'm almost done labbing, my general consensus is that Kirby's F-Throw is stupidly good and that his Copy Ability buffs are even stupider. He can get at least 50%+ on all relevant characters out of one throw, wtf?

 

[Serell]

Goid,

Hammer is your best option when the enemy is dizzied.

Oh, great, a whole move that's only useful when the enemy is dizzied. Because you're going to dizzy your enemy every game. Why are people defending the hammer? It's just as useless as DDD's hammer. As great as these buffs are, it sucks when a character has one whole less move in his arsenal against his opponents.

 

[Dessa]

Oh, great, a whole move that's only useful when the enemy is dizzied. Because you're going to dizzy your enemy every game. Why are people defending the hammer? It's just as useless as DDD's hammer. As great as these buffs are, it sucks when a character has one whole less move in his arsenal against his opponents.

Hey man, you said it was useless. I was just pointing out its use.

 

[Imber]

I'm almost done labbing, my general consensus is that Kirby's F-Throw is stupidly good and that his Copy Ability buffs are even stupider. He can get at least 50%+ on all relevant characters out of one throw, wtf?

What do you mean by all relevant characters? Would you mind sharing this what this god-combo is you're using? Also what copy abilities were buffed?

Oh, great, a whole move that's only useful when the enemy is dizzied. Because you're going to dizzy your enemy every game. Why are people defending the hammer? It's just as useless as DDD's hammer. As great as these buffs are, it sucks when a character has one whole less move in his arsenal against his opponents.

To be clear I don't think there's anybody here who wouldn't trade the hammer for something that helps Kirby's mobility issues for example. It's just that it will never happen so we have to make due and use what we have the best we can. Plus the hammer can be really fun to use so it's hard to completely hate it.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

Hammer Bash is useful, I can eat spotdodges with arial version since it hits twice. I use ground version for hard reading and catching the opponent offgaurd. Plus at certain percents, I have KILLED with Forward throw to Jump to Aeriel hammer bash.
This works especially well of platforms to kill, they literally, have to be near perfect to avoid, Powerful and dangerous string IMO.

Other than that... Everyother hammer is near useless!

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Alright, Kirby's buffs.

I'm not sure where to start, so I'll just jump into F-Throw. Our new F-Throw alleviates one of our biggest problems, which is shields. Getting grabbed by Kirby is devastating, as he can gain a major lead just from one F-Throw. This is a huge buff, especially considering Kirby's grab is f6 and has relatively good range on his dash grab and pivot grab, along with having the 2nd best pummel in the game. Combine this with Inhale now being almost as good as Wario's Chomp, and shielding against Kirby is now death.

F-Throw's combos are borderline ridiculous, as he can now start his insane combos off a grab. F-Throw > U-Air starts combos into U-Tilt, allowing Kirby to rack up major damage without much commitment. The combo does 14%, which is the same as Diddy's D-Throw > U-Air, but has much more combo potential compared to Diddy Kong, and can get even stronger when you factor in pummel damage. F-Throw > D-Air, while character dependent, is really stupid when it works. Kirby no longer has to commit to D-Air, and can get all of it's combos from a grab. The most notable factor with this is F-Throw > D-Air > Regrab, allowing a psuedo-chaingrab on most characters until 30%, after which he can start combos with U-Tilt. F-Throw > F-Air does 17%, and can lead into a WoP, jab locks, tech chases, and even another grab depending on the character.

For example, against Sheik, here's a combo Kirby can now do:

F-Throw > D-Air x3 > Pummel x2 > F-Throw > Needle Storm (fully charged) > U-Air > D-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > U-Air > Upper Cutter, dealing 90% in total.

Depending on the character Kirby is fighting, the damage he can get off F-Throw is really stupid. Then you factor in custom moves, and it's just... dumb. Grounding Stone is pretty much the best Stone variant now that F-Throw is buffed, as it allows Kirby to do ridiculous combos on opponents. The reason for this is because U-Tilt/U-Air > Footstool > Grounding Stone is a jab lock, with Grounding Stone doing 16%. Using this, we can get combos such as...

F-Throw > D-Air x3 > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > U-Air > Footstool > Grounding Stone > Arc Thunder > Footstool > Grounding Stone > Pummel x3 > U-Throw, dealing around 103%

F-Throw > D-Air x2 > F-Throw > U-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > Footstool > Grounding Stone > Slightly Charged Shield Breaker, dealing around 60% and potentially killing.

Pummel > F-Throw > D-Air x2 > F-Throw > U-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > Inhale Jump > Mach Tornado, dealing around 62%.

It's character dependent, but the damage output is just absurd. Without using Copy Abilities, we can get 40~60% depending on the character, although extremely fast fallers such as Fox will be utterly demolished, taking around... 90% just for getting grabbed.

Moving on to the other buffs, Inhale, Jab and several Copy Abilities got altered during this patch. Inhale is now nearing Chomp levels of speed, allowing Kirby to combo into the move itself, such as U-Tilt > Inhale, and giving him an incredibly potent command grab. Jab can no longer be escaped during the transition, allowing Kirby to get around 14%+ from his full jab combo without any interruptions, which is amazing considering it's one of the fastest jabs in the game (Captain Falcon speeds). The Copy Ability buffs are funny, although a bit odd.

Robin's Thunder buffs allow Kirby to be much safer and gather much more damage with the spells, and are much more useful given the new combo throw. Arc Thunder is literally god, as Kirby can combo into nearly his entire moveset using it, can F-Throw > Arc Thunder to extend combos, can jab lock punish with it, and it got a bug fix, too. Previously, if Kirby exhausted the ability while using Arc Thunder, the projectile would simply disappear while travelling, leaving it to be useless. Now, the projectile stays out while Kirby loses the ability. This allows for something bit absurd, though. Due to the buffs on both Arc Thunder and Inhale, if Arc Thunder is going to exhaust the ability, Kirby can Arc Thunder > Inhale to get it back right away.

Pit's Arrow buffs allow Kirby to use his full hop and multiple jumps to shoot... six arrows while airborne. It happens in rapid succession and can be angled, allowing Kirby to create a wall to keep Pit away. It looks pretty funny, too!

Greninja's Water Shuriken buff is a bit odd. Kirby's initial airborne Water Shuriken sends him so high that it could function as another mid-air jump, while any airborne Water Shuriken sends Kirby slightly backwards. Kirby can charge the Water Shuriken to reach Greninja's level for double Water Shuriken out of a short hop, with the slight charge making the shurikens do 6% and 5% respectively. Along with that, Kirby can time it so that he can double fully charged Water Shuriken out of a short hop, which is surprisingly efficient for creating a wall. However, the timing is strict and requires a bit of practice to get down.

Having a combo throw allows Kirby to confirm into several Copy Abilities, such as Charge Shot, Sun Salutation, Arc Thunder, Thoron, Pac-Man's Key, Giant Punch and more. This helps Kirby get more mileage out of his different abilities, which is nice.

Ehh... it's almost 2AM and I ended up getting sick near the end of my trip, so this post is pretty meh and isn't that extensive. It works as a general idea, though, so yeah...

I'll record some videos showing off stuff later tommorow, I'm tired.

edit: oh, also, if you condition the opponent to airdodge after F-Throw, just charge Hammer Flip and get like... 21% or something.

edit2: oh, and if Kirby pockets a bowling ball, F-Throw > Bowling Ball is a true combo and kills at 0% lol. asdioh found ultra amazing Kirby tech today, too. If you buffer a double jump out of Stone while wearing certain Copy Ability hats, Kirby flies around with his eyes closed.

~~~
Some random notes I took while labbing:

Spoiler

Kirby's 1.10 F-Throw Combos

General Note: It is mostly impossible to combo opponents after 30% if they DI away. It is recommended to use U-Throw/D-Throw or HUP Cancel F-Throw to frame trap the opponent. The opponent has three options during this -- Airdodge, Jump, or Attack. If they airdodge, most characters will airdodge into the ground until around 70%. If they double jump, they are now above Kirby, ready to be juggled. If they attack, Kirby can shield it or simply punish the landing lag. To punish accordingly, Kirby can simply foxtrot once, as he'll be out of range to get hit by most attacks, but close enough to punish any of the three options on reaction.

While it may seem a bit low, Kirby's throw combos can deal massive damage depending on the character, being able to do at least 40% on every character, and up to 100% on certain ones. Practice your throw combos to gain the most out of them!
-------

Sheik
--------

0% F-Throw >

D-Air (10%)
U-Air (14%)

Notes:

D-Air leads into two important moves, U-Tilt and Grab. Kirby can F-Throw > D-Air > Grab up to three times to get Sheik to 30%, and then follow up from there, or can start a standard U-Tilt combo. U-Air must be fast falled to combo. It doesn't lead into any true combos, and is generally useless at this percent.
~~~~~

10% F-Throw >

D-Air (10%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)
N-Air (13/15%)

Notes:

D-Air functions the same as 0%. U-Air now functions similarly to D-Air and has follow-ups, but cannot regrab due to the grab timer. It still needs a fast fall to combo. F-Air is mainly for raw damage, but can lead into a regrab. N-Air can combo into Kirby's tilts if it is fast falled while moving forward, but hits the "sourspot" that does 8%. If Kirby is quick enough, he can hit the "sweetspot" that does 10%, but cannot combo off of it.
~~~~~

20% F-Throw

D-Air (10%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)
N-Air (13/15%)

Notes:

D-Air functions the same as 10%. U-Air functions relatively the same way as 10%, just with different timing on the combos. It still needs a fast fall to combo. F-Air now knocks down, so Foxtrot > D-Tilt can jab lock if they miss the tech. Once they're jab locked, do whatever you want. N-Air is the same as before, but has less strict timing for combos.
~~~~~

30% F-Throw >

U-Air (14%)
F-Air (9%)
Needle Storm (Fully Charged, 19%)
Upper Cutter (15%)

Notes:

Around here is when F-Throw becomes unreliable. U-Air and Upper Cutter can be DI'd away, while F-Air no longer connects reliably.

Needle Storm can be used here to get around 19%. If they don't DI, a forward double jump Needle Storm can combo into U-Air, which then combos into U-Air/D-Air/Upper Cutter to rack up damage. If they DI away, a forward double jump Needle Storm will do 19%, but cannot be combo'd off of.

Needle Storm combos from F-Throw until around 50%, too.
__________


Rosalina and Luma
------------------------

0% F-Throw >

D-Air (10%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)
N-Air (15%)

Notes:

D-Air and U-Air can combo into the standard things Kirby would want, such as U-Tilt. D-Air can lead into a regrab, too. F-Air can WoP into itself, while N-Air has no combos. If you can combo into Inhale, you can use Copy on Luma to kill it incredibly early.
~~~~~

10% F-Throw >

D-Air (12/14%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)
N-Air (13/15%)

Notes:

U-Air remains the same in execution, but has slightly altered combos and follow-ups. F-Air requires Kirby to buffer a double jump forward and buffer the move itself to land. If it does work, however, it can combo into itself and Upper Cutter for massive damage. D-Air requires Kirby to buffer a double jump forward and the move itself to land. Whether Kirby can use the landing hit of D-Air to combo or not depends on whether Luma is getting hit and extending hitlag, as it'll prevent Kirby from fast falling. N-Air remains the same.
~~~~~

20% F-Throw >

D-Air (12/14%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)

Notes:

It's exactly the same as 10%, but double jump F-Air and D-Air are much easier to perform. Kirby can double jump U-Air if he wants, although U-Air itself still works
~~~~~

30% F-Throw >

D-Air (12/14%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)

Notes:

It's exactly the same as 20%, but double jump F-Air and D-Air are even easier to perform. It remains this way until around 55%. Kirby can no longer true combo past 25% if they DI away, though.
___________

 

[FSLink]

Not sure if noted, but the animation for when Kirby eats an item is faster too thanks to the Inhale buffs.

Accidentally eating Wario's bike during that matchup no longer keeps him super free to any punish at least.

 

[Quarium]

Dair doesn't confirm into any kills. Dair to Dsmash is somewhat reliable but isn't guaranteed.

At the very least you can see yourself fishing for it without much worry, since you can tell the way the opponent is DI'ing while getting hit by it, if for some reason they are DI'ing in or just not away because of not responding fast enough or simple incompetence you can totally go for Dsmash, in other cases you can always bail out or try out Jab/d-tilt/etc if they are at the right distance to get hit by it.

I still agree though that we might deserve somewhat of a safer killing option than reads or semi confirms if you can even call them that.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Ive only copied a pikachu once since the patch but it lasted until the end of that stock. Very small sample size but therebyou go

 

[Quarium]

Ive only copied a pikachu once since the patch but it lasted until the end of that stock. Very small sample size but therebyou go

I was playing agaisnt a ZSS player, took her stun gun and after like 10 seconds I got her offstage and while recovering the top of her up B nudged my copy ability off. So I think the RNG is just as always.

 

[Phan7om]

Alright, Kirby's buffs.

I'm not sure where to start, so I'll just jump into F-Throw. Our new F-Throw alleviates one of our biggest problems, which is shields. Getting grabbed by Kirby is devastating, as he can gain a major lead just from one F-Throw. This is a huge buff, especially considering Kirby's grab is f6 and has relatively good range on his dash grab and pivot grab, along with having the 2nd best pummel in the game. Combine this with Inhale now being almost as good as Wario's Chomp, and shielding against Kirby is now death.

F-Throw's combos are borderline ridiculous, as he can now start his insane combos off a grab. F-Throw > U-Air starts combos into U-Tilt, allowing Kirby to rack up major damage without much commitment. The combo does 14%, which is the same as Diddy's D-Throw > U-Air, but has much more combo potential compared to Diddy Kong, and can get even stronger when you factor in pummel damage. F-Throw > D-Air, while character dependent, is really stupid when it works. Kirby no longer has to commit to D-Air, and can get all of it's combos from a grab. The most notable factor with this is F-Throw > D-Air > Regrab, allowing a psuedo-chaingrab on most characters until 30%, after which he can start combos with U-Tilt. F-Throw > F-Air does 17%, and can lead into a WoP, jab locks, tech chases, and even another grab depending on the character.

For example, against Sheik, here's a combo Kirby can now do:

F-Throw > D-Air x3 > Pummel x2 > F-Throw > Needle Storm (fully charged) > U-Air > D-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > U-Air > Upper Cutter, dealing 90% in total.

Depending on the character Kirby is fighting, the damage he can get off F-Throw is really stupid. Then you factor in custom moves, and it's just... dumb. Grounding Stone is pretty much the best Stone variant now that F-Throw is buffed, as it allows Kirby to do ridiculous combos on opponents. The reason for this is because U-Tilt/U-Air > Footstool > Grounding Stone is a jab lock, with Grounding Stone doing 16%. Using this, we can get combos such as...

F-Throw > D-Air x3 > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > U-Air > Footstool > Grounding Stone > Arc Thunder > Footstool > Grounding Stone > Pummel x3 > U-Throw, dealing around 103%

F-Throw > D-Air x2 > F-Throw > U-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > Footstool > Grounding Stone > Slightly Charged Shield Breaker, dealing around 60% and potentially killing.

Pummel > F-Throw > D-Air x2 > F-Throw > U-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > Inhale Jump > Mach Tornado, dealing around 62%.

It's character dependent, but the damage output is just absurd. Without using Copy Abilities, we can get 40~60% depending on the character, although extremely fast fallers such as Fox will be utterly demolished, taking around... 90% just for getting grabbed.

Moving on to the other buffs, Inhale, Jab and several Copy Abilities got altered during this patch. Inhale is now nearing Chomp levels of speed, allowing Kirby to combo into the move itself, such as U-Tilt > Inhale, and giving him an incredibly potent command grab. Jab can no longer be escaped during the transition, allowing Kirby to get around 14%+ from his full jab combo without any interruptions, which is amazing considering it's one of the fastest jabs in the game (Captain Falcon speeds). The Copy Ability buffs are funny, although a bit odd.

Robin's Thunder buffs allow Kirby to be much safer and gather much more damage with the spells, and are much more useful given the new combo throw. Arc Thunder is literally god, as Kirby can combo into nearly his entire moveset using it, can F-Throw > Arc Thunder to extend combos, can jab lock punish with it, and it got a bug fix, too. Previously, if Kirby exhausted the ability while using Arc Thunder, the projectile would simply disappear while travelling, leaving it to be useless. Now, the projectile stays out while Kirby loses the ability. This allows for something bit absurd, though. Due to the buffs on both Arc Thunder and Inhale, if Arc Thunder is going to exhaust the ability, Kirby can Arc Thunder > Inhale to get it back right away.

Pit's Arrow buffs allow Kirby to use his full hop and multiple jumps to shoot... six arrows while airborne. It happens in rapid succession and can be angled, allowing Kirby to create a wall to keep Pit away. It looks pretty funny, too!

Greninja's Water Shuriken buff is a bit odd. Kirby's initial airborne Water Shuriken sends him so high that it could function as another mid-air jump, while any airborne Water Shuriken sends Kirby slightly backwards. Kirby can charge the Water Shuriken to reach Greninja's level for double Water Shuriken out of a short hop, with the slight charge making the shurikens do 6% and 5% respectively. Along with that, Kirby can time it so that he can double fully charged Water Shuriken out of a short hop, which is surprisingly efficient for creating a wall. However, the timing is strict and requires a bit of practice to get down.

Having a combo throw allows Kirby to confirm into several Copy Abilities, such as Charge Shot, Sun Salutation, Arc Thunder, Thoron, Pac-Man's Key, Giant Punch and more. This helps Kirby get more mileage out of his different abilities, which is nice.

Ehh... it's almost 2AM and I ended up getting sick near the end of my trip, so this post is pretty meh and isn't that extensive. It works as a general idea, though, so yeah...

I'll record some videos showing off stuff later tommorow, I'm tired.

edit: oh, also, if you condition the opponent to airdodge after F-Throw, just charge Hammer Flip and get like... 21% or something.

edit2: oh, and if Kirby pockets a bowling ball, F-Throw > Bowling Ball is a true combo and kills at 0% lol. asdioh found ultra amazing Kirby tech today, too. If you buffer a double jump out of Stone while wearing certain Copy Ability hats, Kirby flies around with his eyes closed.

~~~
Some random notes I took while labbing:
Kirby's 1.10 F-Throw Combos

General Note: It is mostly impossible to combo opponents after 30% if they DI away. It is recommended to use U-Throw/D-Throw or HUP Cancel F-Throw to frame trap the opponent. The opponent has three options during this -- Airdodge, Jump, or Attack. If they airdodge, most characters will airdodge into the ground until around 70%. If they double jump, they are now above Kirby, ready to be juggled. If they attack, Kirby can shield it or simply punish the landing lag. To punish accordingly, Kirby can simply foxtrot once, as he'll be out of range to get hit by most attacks, but close enough to punish any of the three options on reaction.

While it may seem a bit low, Kirby's throw combos can deal massive damage depending on the character, being able to do at least 40% on every character, and up to 100% on certain ones. Practice your throw combos to gain the most out of them!
-------

Sheik
--------

0% F-Throw >

D-Air (10%)
U-Air (14%)

Notes:

D-Air leads into two important moves, U-Tilt and Grab. Kirby can F-Throw > D-Air > Grab up to three times to get Sheik to 30%, and then follow up from there, or can start a standard U-Tilt combo. U-Air must be fast falled to combo. It doesn't lead into any true combos, and is generally useless at this percent.
~~~~~

10% F-Throw >

D-Air (10%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)
N-Air (13/15%)

Notes:

D-Air functions the same as 0%. U-Air now functions similarly to D-Air and has follow-ups, but cannot regrab due to the grab timer. It still needs a fast fall to combo. F-Air is mainly for raw damage, but can lead into a regrab. N-Air can combo into Kirby's tilts if it is fast falled while moving forward, but hits the "sourspot" that does 8%. If Kirby is quick enough, he can hit the "sweetspot" that does 10%, but cannot combo off of it.
~~~~~

20% F-Throw

D-Air (10%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)
N-Air (13/15%)

Notes:

D-Air functions the same as 10%. U-Air functions relatively the same way as 10%, just with different timing on the combos. It still needs a fast fall to combo. F-Air now knocks down, so Foxtrot > D-Tilt can jab lock if they miss the tech. Once they're jab locked, do whatever you want. N-Air is the same as before, but has less strict timing for combos.
~~~~~

30% F-Throw >

U-Air (14%)
F-Air (9%)
Needle Storm (Fully Charged, 19%)
Upper Cutter (15%)

Notes:

Around here is when F-Throw becomes unreliable. U-Air and Upper Cutter can be DI'd away, while F-Air no longer connects reliably.

Needle Storm can be used here to get around 19%. If they don't DI, a forward double jump Needle Storm can combo into U-Air, which then combos into U-Air/D-Air/Upper Cutter to rack up damage. If they DI away, a forward double jump Needle Storm will do 19%, but cannot be combo'd off of.

Needle Storm combos from F-Throw until around 50%, too.
__________


Rosalina and Luma
------------------------

0% F-Throw >

D-Air (10%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)
N-Air (15%)

Notes:

D-Air and U-Air can combo into the standard things Kirby would want, such as U-Tilt. D-Air can lead into a regrab, too. F-Air can WoP into itself, while N-Air has no combos. If you can combo into Inhale, you can use Copy on Luma to kill it incredibly early.
~~~~~

10% F-Throw >

D-Air (12/14%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)
N-Air (13/15%)

Notes:

U-Air remains the same in execution, but has slightly altered combos and follow-ups. F-Air requires Kirby to buffer a double jump forward and buffer the move itself to land. If it does work, however, it can combo into itself and Upper Cutter for massive damage. D-Air requires Kirby to buffer a double jump forward and the move itself to land. Whether Kirby can use the landing hit of D-Air to combo or not depends on whether Luma is getting hit and extending hitlag, as it'll prevent Kirby from fast falling. N-Air remains the same.
~~~~~

20% F-Throw >

D-Air (12/14%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)

Notes:

It's exactly the same as 10%, but double jump F-Air and D-Air are much easier to perform. Kirby can double jump U-Air if he wants, although U-Air itself still works
~~~~~

30% F-Throw >

D-Air (12/14%)
U-Air (14%)
F-Air (17%)

Notes:

It's exactly the same as 20%, but double jump F-Air and D-Air are even easier to perform. It remains this way until around 55%. Kirby can no longer true combo past 25% if they DI away, though.
___________

The day the patch came out, I labbed and found a lot of these combos. Kirby is almost literally Luigi now (without guaranteed kill combos from throws on all characters). Its cool, but its not exactly what I wanted for him because it makes him soooo simple. I liked finding creative setups, combos, and tools with him(dont get me wrong i still can) but now his gameplan at low %s is almost literally finding out ways to combo from fthrow; which is the reason some players find it annoying to fight characters like Ness, Luigi, etc. I know it really shouldnt matter, but its gonna get on my nerves to see a lot of "Kirby ResidentSleeper" in the chat.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

The day the patch came out, I labbed and found a lot of these combos. Kirby is almost literally Luigi now (without guaranteed kill combos from throws on all characters). Its cool, but its not exactly what I wanted for him because it makes him soooo simple.

Not really, he can't combo after 40% due to DI, same with f-throw up-b. DI is a thing so it doesn't work.

 

[Dessa]

There's no way Kirby is still mid-tier after this. 0-90s on Shiek? Big combos on other fast fallers, like fox and falcon? Better pressure vs. Luma? 0% bowling ball combos vs. Villager? Improved inhale to beat Sonic's spin dash? Improved Water Shuriken vs Greninja?

Kirby still has a few tough matchups, but most of them are slightly easier between inhale and B improvements.

Yoshi is still a nightmare though, looks like.

It's honestly hard to tell where this puts our Strawberry Mochi-man until our best players take him to tourney, but Kirby is at least high-tier now. He's not **** in the neutral, he's a nightmare in advantage, and he's got a few things going for him in disadvantage too (floaty, multiple jumps, an air-grab). He matches up well against the current best-rated character, and has a few unique advantages against a few more (duck is still really great for a lot of situations). He's not just kinda good, IMO, he's good.

 

[chrisall76]

For example, against Sheik, here's a combo Kirby can now do:

F-Throw > D-Air x3 > Pummel x2 > F-Throw > Needle Storm (fully charged) > U-Air > D-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > U-Air > Upper Cutter, dealing 90% in total.

Can someone tell me how to get the up air after the needles? Where do I need to be positioned after the needles?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

You need to buffer a double jump forward, and then buffer needles while moving forward, then buffer U-Air. If they DI away, it won't work, you'll just get the Needle Storm damage. Otherwise, it should work.

 

[Imber]

Whoa, ok slow down everybody aren't you kind of assuming that a good player will be hit by Fthrow>dair over and over? Isn't that a little too optimistic?

 

[Quarium]

Improved inhale to beat Sonic's spin dash?

No way... I can just stand there and inhale him outta spin dash now?????

 

[SpottedCerberus]

I'm almost done labbing, my general consensus is that Kirby's F-Throw is stupidly good and that his Copy Ability buffs are even stupider. He can get at least 50%+ on all relevant characters out of one throw, wtf?

So, would you say that default inhale is now a better option than jumping inhale? I think this is the second time that default got its start-up and end-lag buffed.

F-Throw > D-Air x3 > Pummel x2 > F-Throw > Needle Storm (fully charged) > U-Air > D-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) > U-Air > Upper Cutter, dealing 90% in total

Wtf. That's not a true combo, is it?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Whoa, ok slow down everybody aren't you kind of assuming that a good player will be hit by Fthrow>dair over and over? Isn't that a little too optimistic?

Kirby's mix-up potential from F-Throw can force opponents to get hit. Pummel > F-Throw > U-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) is a true combo, does 19.5%, and can lead into juggles or another grab. If you properly mix up your throws, then F-Throw > D-Air becomes incredibly reliable. Those combos are just for example.

So, would you say that default inhale is now a better option than jumping inhale? I think this is the second time that default got its start-up and end-lag buffed.


Wtf. That's not a true combo, is it?

Jumping Inhale and Ice Breath have their use, but right now I switched all my custom sets to default Inhale and Ice Breath. Default Inhale is really good.

Sheik can avoid it with DI on the F-Throw to FDJ Needle Storm, but otherwise it's a true combo.

EDIT: Due to Inhale's buff, Kirby can reliably use it to stop Sonic's Spindash. Previously, the start-up and endlag were too long, so Kirby couldn't Inhale on reaction, and would get punished by Homing Attack during the endlag.

Now, Kirby can Inhale the move on reaction and can shield before being punished if Sonic jumps over! You can also clash with Jab and potentially get a grab during the endlag.

Also, F-Throw > FDJ Bell > U-Air > Upper Cutter kills Pac-Man at 60%. The combo is fairly difficult to get, though, so I don't think it'll be that useful. You can remove the U-Air and kill him at 105% reliably though.

 

[Imber]

Kirby's mix-up potential from F-Throw can force opponents to get hit. Pummel > F-Throw > U-Air > U-Tilt (Sourspot) is a true combo, does 19.5%, and can lead into juggles or another grab. If you properly mix up your throws, then F-Throw > D-Air becomes incredibly reliable. Those combos are just for example.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean but if I'm sheik and I get grabbed by Kirby I'm just going to hold DI away and mash jump. If I get hit by a true combo I lose nothing because it's inescapable anyway but if the followup isn't a true combo (like fthrow>dair) I escape for free. There's no mixup because there is no decision to make. My best option is the same every time.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

If you're trying to jump out of F-Throw, especially at low percents, you're putting yourself in a horrible position. Not only does Kirby have more combo options out of the throw, but you're above him so he's going to U-Tilt you a billion times as you try to land. DI Away isn't going to save you from D-Air, and airdodge/attack will get you hit unless you're Mario/Luigi/Villager.

Getting hit by U-Air is worse compared to D-Air, so you're trying to avoid that. By avoiding D-Air, you're putting yourself in a worse situation than simply getting hit by it would, so you're not helping yourself out. Your best option is to DI down and shield at 0%, but due to Kirby's frame advantage, he can start applying pressure right away. You won't be grabbing him as he can duck under Sheiks grab, and you can't OoS hit him while he's ducking without getting shield grabbed. Your only good option is to roll away, which he can easily punish.

Because of this, you're going to want to mix up how you do things. He can then start manipulating this to get what he wants.

 

[Imber]

If you're trying to jump out of F-Throw, especially at low percents, you're putting yourself in a horrible position. Not only does Kirby have more combo options out of the throw, but you're above him so he's going to U-Tilt you a billion times as you try to land. DI Away isn't going to save you from D-Air, and airdodge/attack will get you hit unless you're Mario/Luigi/Villager.

Getting hit by U-Air is worse compared to D-Air, so you're trying to avoid that. By avoiding D-Air, you're putting yourself in a worse situation than simply getting hit by it would, so you're not helping yourself out. Your best option is to DI down and shield at 0%, but due to Kirby's frame advantage, he can start applying pressure right away. You won't be grabbing him as he can duck under Sheiks grab, and you can't OoS hit him while he's ducking without getting shield grabbed. Your only good option is to roll away, which he can easily punish.

Because of this, you're going to want to mix up how you do things. He can then start manipulating this to get what he wants.

Nobody is going to be trying to escape fthrow>uair because it's a true combo. Unless they are at a percent where they can DI out of range, it will always hit them. Nobody is going to be trying to airdodge 1 foot off the ground or anything stupid like that because it's doesn't do anything to help them. Fthrow>dair is not going to catch anybody who is trying to avoid Fthrow>uair all it does is give your opponent an opportunity to escape or block. If you think you can punish sheik for jumping away or that kirby has some kind of advantage when dair hits her shield that's fine but personally I'll take the guaranteed damage every single time.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

wat

re-read what I said pls

 

[SRUFUS3D]

Honestly I am just glad jab actually works now.

 

[chrisall76]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14wH8niNSdzctmGnQBg34d8CF4ysGw6g7V8pQPsp3tbE/edit?usp=sharing
So I have all this recorded for the combo video I'm making. Anything missing? Trying the Sheik/Robin/Marth specific copy combos, might take me a few hours before I can do them lol.

 

[Imber]

Ok I'll try to make it clearer.

If you're trying to jump out of F-Throw, especially at low percents, you're putting yourself in a horrible position. Not only does Kirby have more combo options out of the throw, but you're above him so he's going to U-Tilt you a billion times as you try to land.

I want to know how you are planning to utilt anybody if you have just whiffed dair because they jumped away.

DI Away isn't going to save you from D-Air, and airdodge/attack will get you hit unless you're Mario/Luigi/Villager.

DI lets you escape dair much sooner than uair because dair doesn't hit in front of Kirby but whatever.

Getting hit by U-Air is worse compared to D-Air, so you're trying to avoid that.

Literally how can you avoid a true combo? How is uair worse than a move that combos into utilt AND grab?

By avoiding D-Air, you're putting yourself in a worse situation than simply getting hit by it would, so you're not helping yourself out.

This makes zero sense to me. If I can jump out of fthrow>dair how is that worse than getting hit by fthrow>dair>regrab>fthrow>whatever?

Your best option is to DI down and shield at 0%, but due to Kirby's frame advantage, he can start applying pressure right away. You won't be grabbing him as he can duck under Sheiks grab, and you can't OoS hit him while he's ducking without getting shield grabbed. Your only good option is to roll away, which he can easily punish.

How is this different than dair hitting their shield in any other situation? Dair does have landing lag and is punishable so why are you assuming they won't know how to punish it?

I'm not trying to ridicule or antagonize you or anything I just don't think fthrow>dair is something we can rely on. I want Kirby to be a great character just as much as you do but forgive me if I'm skeptical of 0-90% combos.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Lol, I'm not talking about whiffed D-Air. You can HUP Cancel if you think they're going to jump away.

DI Away mostly remains the same for D-Air and U-Air on %'s. D-Air actually has an easier time connecting to most characters due to their hitstun animations.

U-Air does more damage and leads into U-Tilt, so you're getting more reward as D-Air isn't connecting fully.

See above.

See above.

D-Air is a mix-up option, not a primary option. Relying fully on it is dumb, lol. Also, those are just examples of what Kirby can do. There's different ways to do those combos and get the same damage using U-Air and F-Air~

Oh, and F-Throw > D-Air is a true combo on certain characters, so it's reliable on those ones.

 

[Altair357]

The day the patch came out, I labbed and found a lot of these combos. Kirby is almost literally Luigi now (without guaranteed kill combos from throws on all characters). Its cool, but its not exactly what I wanted for him because it makes him soooo simple. I liked finding creative setups, combos, and tools with him(dont get me wrong i still can) but now his gameplan at low %s is almost literally finding out ways to combo from fthrow; which is the reason some players find it annoying to fight characters like Ness, Luigi, etc. I know it really shouldnt matter, but its gonna get on my nerves to see a lot of "Kirby ResidentSleeper" in the chat.

The difference is that Luigi gets a true combo out of dthrow at all relevant percents. He can grab you at 0 and take you to 30, grab a few more times and take you to 110, and kill you with dthrow to cyclone. Kirby essentially gets one fthrow combo per stock. He can get a lot of reward out of it, but I don't see people getting bored of it when it can basically happen a maximum of twice per game. It's a great throw, but isn't even on the same level as Luigi's.

Despite the mixups that you can do like Reserved has been talking about, that simply isn't as good as getting a 100% guaranteed throw combo from about 0-250%. Not to mention Kirby's not exactly fast enough to juggle someone if they avoid the down air.

 

[Triple R]

I finally did a bunch of messing around in the lab. Not a lot but enough to know that people are saying some ridiculous things.

I saw fthrow > dair x3. I'm hoping you are saying fthrow into 3 hits of dair and not do the combination of fthrow into dair 3 times. The 2nd one would never work.

What characters does fthrow > dair actually combo on? The few I test it never seemed to true combo at any percent.

The only moves I could get to combo at varying percents were nair, uair, fair, and final cutter (I don't care about customs).

At low percents on heavy/fast fallers, your bread n butter is going to be fthrow > uair > turnaround utilt, or something very similar. At slightly higher percents you're probably doing fthrow > fair and then trying to continue pressure. High percents I haven't messed with much yet.

Not sure what the best options against other floaties are yet. I basically practiced some things against characters common in my area.

Don't get me wrong, fthrow > dair can and probably will work on certain characters, but at that point you might as well fast fall uair and start an utilt string. If you dair them the only real thing you can do after that is grab, which isn't bad, but I wouldn't do it everytime.

I still have a lot to try out yet, but a lot of what I'm reading in this thread is kinda funny. Definitely people overreacting.

 

[Dessa]

I finally did a bunch of messing around in the lab. Not a lot but enough to know that people are saying some ridiculous things.

I saw fthrow > dair x3. I'm hoping you are saying fthrow into 3 hits of dair and not do the combination of fthrow into dair 3 times. The 2nd one would never work.

What characters does fthrow > dair actually combo on? The few I test it never seemed to true combo at any percent.

The only moves I could get to combo at varying percents were nair, uair, fair, and final cutter (I don't care about customs).

At low percents on heavy/fast fallers, your bread n butter is going to be fthrow > uair > turnaround utilt, or something very similar. At slightly higher percents you're probably doing fthrow > fair and then trying to continue pressure. High percents I haven't messed with much yet.

Not sure what the best options against other floaties are yet. I basically practiced some things against characters common in my area.

Don't get me wrong, fthrow > dair can and probably will work on certain characters, but at that point you might as well fast fall uair and start an utilt string. If you dair them the only real thing you can do after that is grab, which isn't bad, but I wouldn't do it everytime.

I still have a lot to try out yet, but a lot of what I'm reading in this thread is kinda funny. Definitely people overreacting.

Overreacting is fun!

...But I'll take your word over my own TBH. I've seen what you're capable of. FWIW, the supposed option at high percent is fthrow > jump > attack of some sort. I haven't tested it against anything but a CPU dummy, so who knows? But you might try that and see what you think.

What do you think about the improvement to inhale and jab? If fthrow can be converted to a utilt, people are saying utilt converts to inhale now. Can fthrow then lead to inhale? As exciting as fthrow improvements are, half of my gleeful exhortations are over inhale.

 

[kirbyfan66]

Going to the lab and testing out all of that stuff, Reserved. Thank you for all that labbing! That's a gold mine of data that I can't wait to mess around with.

"Mashing air dodge", so to speak, is the fastest way for a lot of characters to get out of combos and would be their only hope against Forward Throw -> Up Air, so if they do that, free Down Air. You have to do some serious conditioning, yes, but the fact that Kirby can actually condition his opponents to do things is a buff on its own.

The Inhale buff is super important - Chomp is ridiculously good and having a Chomp of our own is great. Definitely better than Jumping Inhale in a lot of cases, although Jumping Inhale certainly still has many uses (this isn't the thread to talk about customs but I still don't know what uses Ice Breath has ).

On floaty characters, doesn't Back Throw -> Back Air and/or Back Throw -> Up Air work? We shouldn't forget about that. It still has immense uses, even with the Forward Throw buff. All of Kirby's throws are good now, even Up Throw can work on stages like Halberd and Dream Land.

 

[Phan7om]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14wH8niNSdzctmGnQBg34d8CF4ysGw6g7V8pQPsp3tbE/edit?usp=sharing
So I have all this recorded for the combo video I'm making. Anything missing? Trying the Sheik/Robin/Marth specific copy combos, might take me a few hours before I can do them lol.

There are a lot of copy combos you can do, but idk if you'll be able to do all of them in the time you'll want to release the combo video. Some true combos examples are like

Falling Uair/Rev. Utilt/Falling Nair/Dtilt/Fthrow > DK Punch/Charge Shot/Pac's Key - Nair relies on poor DI
Bthrow also combos into Charge Shot and kills hella early by the ledge

Aura Sphere Charge (not the projectile) > Bair

Rev. Utilt > Eruption/Homing Attack/Pac's Bell > kill move
prob lots of other stuff I havent tested yet

Also you might want to include Dtilt locks (jab locks) in the video. Certain copy abilities can help with this like Mario, Doc, Luigi, Palu, Falco, Samus, Ryu, Link, Tink, Pika, Lucario, M2. Just a thought

The difference is that Luigi gets a true combo out of dthrow at all relevant percents. He can grab you at 0 and take you to 30, grab a few more times and take you to 110, and kill you with dthrow to cyclone. Kirby essentially gets one fthrow combo per stock. He can get a lot of reward out of it, but I don't see people getting bored of it when it can basically happen a maximum of twice per game. It's a great throw, but isn't even on the same level as Luigi's.

Despite the mixups that you can do like Reserved has been talking about, that simply isn't as good as getting a 100% guaranteed throw combo from about 0-250%. Not to mention Kirby's not exactly fast enough to juggle someone if they avoid the down air.

When I say hes luigi, im not just specifically talking about grabs. Im more so talking about simple gameplan design where you can play a character with like 4 moves.

 

[|RK|]

Does Bthrow to B-Air work at higher percents if their DI is towards the B-Air?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Does Bthrow to B-Air work at higher percents if their DI is towards the B-Air?

omg wait.

We need to test this. This could be really good for extending F-Throw combos against characters that B-Throw > B-Air works on.