Kirby Jab Lock Combo w/ Character Specific Video

[SpikeSpiegel19]

Calibur champ i know exactly what ur talking about i've been doing the same thing instead using Kirby's Forward tilt but it doesnt work after 30%

If ur posting after this plz read first post b4 posting Thank You

 

[Dpete]

Well, since we're having trouble getting back to the ground fast enough, we need to look at our moves that can get us to the ground quickly.

FF'd-Nair was nice because it auto-cancels and can be followed up quickly. Laggier moves don't have the potential to be followed up as well as the Nair. Doesn't Uair auto-cancel as well? Any potential there?

I think Up-B will have too much lag to follow up. Down-B is also a move that could get us to the ground quickly, but not only does it have tons of lag the knockback makes it useless.

Of course this is all theory and I haven't tested anything.

 

[cAm8ooo]

i;m using it on human players Cam800 and i'm telling u they can't airdodge it. U need to speed up ur jumps

Like i said, i could be wrong, but if you say you can do it on human players then thats great (ill have to practice the timing some more). The single up-tilt is by far the easiest setup for the footstool though, if we can get the last part of the combo down things will be looking even better for Kirby.

I don't have a wii at the moment to test anything out, but if i think of anything i'll post it.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

Well, since we're having trouble getting back to the ground fast enough, we need to look at our moves that can get us to the ground quickly.

FF'd-Nair was nice because it auto-cancels and can be followed up quickly. Laggier moves don't have the potential to be followed up as well as the Nair. Doesn't Uair auto-cancel as well? Any potential there?

I think Up-B will have too much lag to follow up. Down-B is also a move that could get us to the ground quickly, but not only does it have tons of lag the knockback makes it useless.

Of course this is all theory and I haven't tested anything.

Option 1: Do u know if there are different types of footstool jumps?
What i mean is one that makes u go higher and another that makes u go less.
If there are two options then we just have to do the smaller toadstool.

Option 2: If not our only option is to increase the amount it takes our opponent to fall so we can get to the ground at the same time they do.

If that does not work we need to find a different setup that utilizes the full stun time from a toadstool jump or maybe no toadstool jump at all (not sure if that is possible or not).

Anyway i know were close. At the same time keep an open mind so u dont miss a new combo that comes along in the process of experimenting

 

[cAm8ooo]

Some times for some reason i'll fly higher in the air after a footstool but i don't know why. Do you think the length of your jump has the same properties as jumping full length or shorthopping while on the ground?

We're only behind a few frames. I guess everything counts.

 

[psykoplympton]

footstool has diminishing effects. after three times its really low. try it on a standing opponent and watch it get lower. you could plan for it and just spam footstool for the low footstool andcontinue from there. know what i mean?

 

[Yuna]

I know this works gauranteed for two reasons. For starters i already know how much stun time uair causes. Given that i also know that when any character is Uair'd by Kirby at 0% they are stunned till they hit the ground. So if Kirby footstools b4 they hit the ground then obviously the Uair to Footstool part of the combo is a clean combo

They are stunned 'til they hit the ground? Do you mean if they get Uaired at 0% from a Kirby right off the ground, then they'll be stunned 'til they hit the ground? And also, not true, as evident in your video where they get out of the stun before they hit the ground.

Now moving on to the Nair part of the combo. I'm not sure of the reason y but when Kirby footstools after the Uair he doesn't rise as far as he would from from just a toadstool. So Kirby can is much closer to the character he he just footstooled makine the Nair part of this a combo.

You, in a later post, claims to have done this on a human opponent. Then how come it's never against a human and always against a CPU set to "jump" or whatever in Training Mode? Is it a combo? For one thing, does the Training Mode combo meter count it as a combo (I cannot tell because of your camera angles).

I haven't tried this against human players but i already know it will work b/c it uses the same timings as my very first Fthrow, Uair combo which i'm sure u'll agree is a legit combo.

And you have the frame data to prove this? "This uses the same timing as...". In Competitive fighting games, especially in Brawl, one frame is all it takes to prevent a combo from being a true combo.

Also, did you know that Footstools can be DI:ed, making it harder, if not impossible, for Kirby to FF Nair in place to a jab lock.

They can airdodge after the up-tilt but they have to know it's coming first. It could be used sparingly though. Of course, i only tested it against samus, so i may be wrong about airdodging the footstool.

No they don't. The human mind is perfectly capable of doing it on reaction. You just have to be good.

 

[TwilightKirby]

Well you could possibly turn this into an extremely situational combo that works at specific percents that are different for every character.

I say this because you could try to abuse the footstool full hitstun in the air by hitting them with uair at a percent that would put them at the maximum distance between the opponent and the ground during the footstool. This would give you more time to do the nair.

(I could try to explain this again if this is hard to understand lol sorry)

 

[cAm8ooo]

No they don't. The human mind is perfectly capable of doing it on reaction. You just have to be good.

Yes, i know you can do it by reaction. What i meant was that if they didn't know about the footstool combo they wouldn't airdodge after the up-tilt and instead just DI. But as Gonzo said he's tested it against human players and they couldn't airdodge it.

 

[Yuna]

Yes, i know you can do it by reaction. What i meant was that if they didn't know about the footstool combo they wouldn't airdodge after the up-tilt and instead just DI. But as Gonzo said he's tested it against human players and they couldn't airdodge it.

But good players will know about the Footstool combo.

Also, I'm still doubting his testing. How many human players has he tested it on and how extensively did they test it? Did they do anything except spam airdodge (aerials, DI)?

 

[Colbert]

I think the whole point is that...

It doesn't take a bad player for this to work on, instead it takes a very good/knowledgeable/suspecting character to get out.

 

[Yuna]

I think the whole point is that...

It doesn't take a bad player for this to work on, instead it takes a very good/knowledgeable/suspecting character to get out.

If I know that Snake can infinite me if he grabs me right next to the ledge while facing it, I'll avoid getting grabbed there. If I know that Zelda's Uair can KO me at 60%, I'll try to never get hit by it. If I know that Kirby can do a weirdass combo into a Footstool into a combo, I'm sure as hell going to look out for it and try to escape it every single time!

 

[TwilightKirby]

If I know that Snake can infinite me if he grabs me right next to the ledge while facing it, I'll avoid getting grabbed there. If I know that Zelda's Uair can KO me at 60%, I'll try to never get hit by it. If I know that Kirby can do a weirdass combo into a Footstool into a combo, I'm sure as hell going to look out for it and try to escape it every single time!

QFT

If you don't have a perfect combo, people WILL avoid it. The best players always want to do everything they can to avoid things that will drastically put their opponent ahead or do everything they can to accomplish something that will drastically put themselves ahead. A combo that has a small window of escape may work for a short while especially with an uncommon character, but if it becomes something every kirby player does then people will make every attempt to avoid it.

Without it being perfect its merely a string. In order for strings to be useful though they need to be versatile to give you options on what to follow based on your opponents reactions etc. Hopefully we can make this into a true combo. I know that if there is a way, gonzo will find it cause hes dedicated/cool like that

 

[Tomato Kirby]

We could just try starting the combo at n-air and use it to punish a missed tech...

I think that would be best.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

Yuna u are seriously getting on my nerves. If ur that doubtful then get the F off my thread. Instead of saying my info is wrong offer some kind of advice or a suggestion that would speed up the combo by a few frames.

Moving on,
The dimished footstool sounds like an amazing idea but doesn't it reset once u touch the ground?

HOLD ON WHAT IF u footstool first uair, jump, and footstool again while never touching the ground. The first footstool would stun them a little and diminish the footstool then we would just Uair and footstool again without ever touching the ground.

What do uall think??? I'll try it as soon as i can

 

[Yuna]

Yuna u are seriously getting on my nerves. If ur that doubtful then get the F off my thread. Instead of saying my info is wrong offer some kind of advice or a suggestion that would speed up the combo by a few frames.

Wow, I'm sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious flaws in your "combo". I mean, I really should stay quiet and let you convince everyone it's a true guaranteed combo instead of pointing out that it isn't!

I can't think of any way to make it faster, maybe because there isn't any. If there is, feel free to discover it. I don't see any way to make any of your strings combos. Now, try to actually make them combos instead of getting ticked off after you post a string and insist it's a combo.

Moving on,
The dimished footstool sounds like an amazing idea but doesn't it reset once u touch the ground?

Yes.

HOLD ON WHAT IF u footstool first uair, jump, and footstool again while never touching the ground.

How about you try it out in Training Mode?

The first footstool would stun them a little and diminish the footstool then we would just Uair and footstool again without ever touching the ground.

If the Footstool to Uair won't connect, what makes you think Footstool to Uair to Footstool will? Why even need a 2nd Footstool if you just managed to Footstool to Uair to Jab-lock?

There's no way you can Footstool to Uair.

What do uall think??? I'll try it as soon as i can

I think it'll fail. Because Kirby falls too slowly.

 

[3xSwords]

lol Yuna pissed off...maybe?

One I will have to say kirby really doesn't need a jab lock combo he's got others.

But for the sake of the thread, uair > footstool without ever touching the ground? Yeah Yuna is right on that one not going to work. The only way footstool > FF nair would work is if you can somehow footstool them a little higher than when the original combo would footstool them. Then you could land on the ground at a similar time to the opponent and thus jab lock them in theory.

But I dont think kirby has any quick moves that will launch them up and still have enough stun time to footstool the opponent. Also about your f-tilt lock. How do you get it so only the falling animation hits an opponent? And have you tried switching from ftilt>dtilt>jab?

 

[Henryhta]

Wow, I'm sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious flaws in your "combo". I mean, I really should stay quiet and let you convince everyone it's a true guaranteed combo instead of pointing out that it isn't!

Really now, Yuna if it doesn't work then say so, no need to say it never gonna work or there ain't any!!! Even if it true we don't need your smart mouth around here, just comment if you don't have any good to say keep it to yourself.

Gonzo just wanted to say good luck!

___________________________
Main: Kirby
Secondary: Ice Climbers / Pikachu

 

[Yuna]

Really now, Yuna if it doesn't work then say so, no need to say it never gonna work or there ain't any!!! Even if it true we don't need your smart mouth around here, just comment if you don't have any good to say keep it to yourself.

I've only said "Never going to work" about one thing in this thread. Otherwise, I just say "They can get out of it", quite calmly, rationally and nicely.

I'm not the one yelling at people for pointing out that my strings aren't combos.

 

[Dpete]

I'm not the one yelling at people for pointing out that my strings aren't combos.

Ha.

Did anyone test replacing the FF'd Nair with a FF'd UAir? Now that I think about it the UAir probably has too much upwards knockback. I still think it should at least be looked into. Perhaps a reverse UAir?

 

[Henryhta]

I'm not the one yelling at people for pointing out that my strings aren't combos.

I know you aren't, I'm not saying your a bad person or anything like that, I respect your comments. BTW do you have any advice to work this into combo?

___________________________
Main: Kirby
Secondary: Ice Climbers / Pikachu

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

lol Yuna pissed off...maybe?

One I will have to say kirby really doesn't need a jab lock combo he's got others.

But for the sake of the thread, uair > footstool without ever touching the ground? Yeah Yuna is right on that one not going to work. The only way footstool > FF nair would work is if you can somehow footstool them a little higher than when the original combo would footstool them. Then you could land on the ground at a similar time to the opponent and thus jab lock them in theory.

But I dont think kirby has any quick moves that will launch them up and still have enough stun time to footstool the opponent. Also about your f-tilt lock. How do you get it so only the falling animation hits an opponent? And have you tried switching from ftilt>dtilt>jab?

Yeah i have, and the problem u addressed is exactly where i'm stuck

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

Ha.

Did anyone test replacing the FF'd Nair with a FF'd UAir? Now that I think about it the UAir probably has too much upwards knockback. I still think it should at least be looked into. Perhaps a reverse UAir?

Now the reverse Uair is an excellent idea.

I see two possibilities
the first is Utilt, reverse Uair, footstool, FFNair, Dtilt, Jab Lock

the second is reverse Uair, Utilt, footstool, FFnair, Dtilt, Jab lock

I just got back from work so i'm gonna take a shower eat some chipotle and then work on this combo

btw Yuna, i never mean to be rude or mean on smashboards. But i would prefer u did not use a tone that implies i'm going to fail or that i'm an 8 year old testing this stuff. I'm atcually a bio graduate preparing for dental school and happen to follow a very methodical and scientific approach to these combos.

If something doesnt work i will find out. Instead of saying things like "try it on human players" say more constructive for the present time and place.

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

yuna isnt creative enough or doesnt have enough faith in brawl or something cus he always comes and ruins threads that can possibly turn into something amazing,

if it can be escape from then we'll try to figure out a different way, but YUNA always has to come in the thread and phuck shlt up, yuna has no life and all he seems to care about is making other ppl not like brawl like him, and sometimes doesnt even know what hes talking about, he said peach doesnt have 0-death combos in melee?????!!!?!?!!?

just dont mind yuna's post as a matter of fact i think swf has a block to block certain ppls post and such i suggest we all put yuna on our list

 

[Yuna]

I know you aren't, I'm not saying your a bad person or anything like that, I respect your comments. BTW do you have any advice to work this into combo?

No, I do not main Kirby (nor do I play him... ever). I do not know how every single one of his attacks work. I do not know his frame statistics. I can, therefore, not sit down and theoretically come up with a combo that works.

I can test one that's pointed out to me or just look at it and go "No" if I know the moves involved do not work the way they need to work for the combo to hit. I can also look at videos posted. I don't think Kirby can do it because he just falls too slow.

the first is Utilt, reverse Uair, footstool, FFNair, Dtilt, Jab Lock

the second is reverse Uair, Utilt, footstool, FFnair, Dtilt, Jab lock

You cannot combo U-tilt into reverse Uair (auto-canceled) IIRC and you cannot combo Uair into U-tilt into FSJ with DI + stuff (I could be wrong on this).

btw Yuna, i never mean to be rude or mean on smashboards. But i would prefer u did not use a tone that implies i'm going to fail or that i'm an 8 year old testing this stuff. I'm atcually a bio graduate preparing for dental school and happen to follow a very methodical and scientific approach to these combos.

You asked me to help you work on the combo. I said "I don't think there will be such a combo because Kirby just doesn't work that way.". It's my opinion and interpretation of the game, nothing more, nothing less.

Als, if you're so methodical and scientific, how come you've presented so many "combos" that are quite obviously not combos but strings, most of which are easily gotten out of? I mean, you even posted a video where I, with the naked eye, could tell the combos wouldn't work because people leave hitstun before Kirby can FSJ them. You didn't just present them as "possible combos for others to test", for many of them, you presented them as if you'd tested them enough to be certain they were combos.

In fact, you claimed such. You claimed you'd tested them on humans who DI:ed, 2nd jumped, airdodged and aerialed, yet you dropped that line when question (by me) on whether you'd really done that as all of your vids are in Training Mode against CPUs and if you'd tested them on humans, you would've known they wouldn't work.

If something doesnt work i will find out. Instead of saying things like "try it on human players" say more constructive for the present time and place.

Because they do not work. You think they work. I don't think so. I can tell just by looking at the frame data and your videos with my naked eye. Did you know that I haven't tested any of this out myself? You've tested it out, apparently on humans, possibly not, yet you couldn't tell the combos wouldn't work?

I don't even need the game in front of me to tell that your combos are just strings. How about for your next suggestion, you make it just that, a suggestion, not a "I did extensive testing and believe this a true combo that you cannot get out of... despite not having tested it on a human yet!".

yuna isnt creative enough or doesnt have enough faith in brawl or something cus he always comes and ruins threads that can possibly turn into something amazing

Why must I have faith in Brawl? Brawl has to earn my faith. I am not a blind believer. I do not have blind faith and hope it's true, I'm a critical observer.

if it can be escape from then we'll try to figure out a different way,

I don't think there's a different way.

but YUNA always has to come in the thread and phuck shlt up, yuna has no life and all he seems to care about is making other ppl not like brawl like him

Yes, refuting people's claims is "f*ing manure up" and making people dislike Brawl. We should just let people spread misinformation and lies freely! Whoopity-doo!

and sometimes doesnt even know what hes talking about, he said peach doesnt have 0-death combos in melee?????!!!?!?!!?

Because she doesn't. Did you know that I'm one of Europe's very best Peaches (in Melee)?

just dont mind yuna's post as a matter of fact i think swf has a block to block certain ppls post and such i suggest we all put yuna on our list

How will I sleep at night knowing you won't be able to read what I say?

 

[TwilightKirby]

How will I sleep at night knowing you won't be able to read what I say?

Anyways yuna do we have frame data for brawl? Or does it still need to be tested or whatever (sorry I don't know much about how people acquire the data, I think they look at the coding?)

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

Yuna, all of the combos i have ever presented with the exception of this one are actual combos. try this for example

Fthrow to Uair then if ur opponent doesnt jump or DI Fsmash or Reverse Utilt if they do jump theu u jump and Uair. Guaranteed to combo

Regardless this is not about my creditability. I've used all my combos in tourney against skilled players and they all work.

Moving on, Read the original Post for a new video

 

[Yuna]

Yuna, all of the combos i have ever presented with the exception of this one are actual combos. try this for example

I'm talking about the many "combos" you've posted in this very thread, not combos you've posted in other threads.

Fthrow to Uair then if ur opponent doesnt jump or DI Fsmash or Reverse Utilt if they do jump theu u jump and Uair. Guaranteed to combo

Did you just call it a guaranteed combo if the opponent doesn't jump or DI?! It's a friggin' string and it'll only work on people who suck because they neither DI nor do they jump away! And who just jumps, anyway? I DI away, jump and aerial, all at the same time.

Regardless this is not about my creditability. I've used all my combos in tourney against skilled players and they all work.

This about whether or not the combos you post in this thread work. So far, none of them actually work (as combos). Your credibility is questionable since you keep posting strings claiming them to be combos, claiming to have done extensive testing on them... yet I can tell they're strings just by looking at them.

I mean, how credible are you if you can't tell something by doing it when I can by looking at it?

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

Yuna this is the last time i'm going to ask nicely for u to get off my Thread.

I dont want to hear any input u have to give. Useless or Useful leave this thread.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Well, it probably wont help, but i know that FTJ works just like shorthopping and fulling jumping. Somthing you probably already know, but worth a mention.

 

[Mr. Stripe]

Fthrow to Uair then if ur opponent doesnt jump or DI Fsmash or Reverse Utilt if they do jump theu u jump and Uair.

Hey, I saw your video, and I was kind of wondering how you turn around so fast for the reverse utilt. Is there any insight on how to do this? I understand I might be doing it wrong, just wondering if there are any tricks or tips to getting turned around after the u-air.

 

[cAm8ooo]

I've managed to get me to go basically nowhere and my eyes may be deceiving me but hit part of the N-air before my opponent hits the ground. I can try to post a poor quality vid if you like.

Edit: I know for a fact i can hit the player with a fastfalled N-air before they stop bouncing off the ground if you shorthop the footstool. I recorded a video and slowed it down. I can upload it shortly. I dont know if hitting them before they stop bouncing actually stops them from being able to roll or not but you can test. Then again all of this shorthopped footstool jumps may be worthless information you already know but it's worth a try.

Edit 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxVruR2D1GY, i think you may be able to footstool even shorter but idk.

 

[Yuna]

Yuna this is the last time i'm going to ask nicely for u to get off my Thread.

I dont want to hear any input u have to give. Useless or Useful leave this thread.

You do not have the authority to demand that.

And what are my crimes, really? I've been perfectly civil. The only thing I've done is point out flaws in your "combos". I'm not questioning your skill as a Smasher or credibility other than your claim that these strings are combos (plus the one where you said "If they don't jump or DI" since, then, it's an obvious string). The "Your credibility is kinda questionable"-comment was in response to your own mention of your credibility and while a bit underhanded, well, you started the animosity.

I've been one of the most useful contributors to this thread. Instead of blindly going "This is cool! Kirby will rule now!", I pointed out how the strings were escapable, prompting you to try to improve them (which you're still free to do and it's not like I'd mind it if a real inescapable combo was found, like the one for Sonic). You just seem to take it personally when I point out that one of your strings is a string and not a combo, and then mouth off as if I have no credibility and say in the matter unless I personally try to find out a Kirby FSJ-combo of my own (umm... yah). If you go back and re-read my posts, each one pointing out the flaws in your "combos" are perfectly civil.

Without me (or if I wasn't here, someone else saying the things I say), this thread wouldn't have come half as far as it has come. You'd still be stuck thinking some of your early strings were true combos.

I've managed to get me to go basically nowhere and my eyes may be deceiving me but hit part of the N-air before my opponent hits the ground. I can try to post a poor quality vid if you like.

Edit: I know for a fact i can hit the player with a fastfalled N-air before they stop bouncing off the ground if you shorthop the footstool. I recorded a video and slowed it down. I can upload it shortly. I dont know if hitting them before they stop bouncing actually stops them from being able to roll or not but you can test. Then again all of this shorthopped footstool jumps may be worthless information you already know but it's worth a try.

Edit 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxVruR2D1GY, i think you may be able to footstool even shorter but idk.

Samus got out of hitstun after U-tilt. This yet another case of "Well, what you do after FSJ works, but the combo into the FSJ does not work.".

 

[Sakki]

An idea just came to me just now. Would using a fastfalled Dair be any faster than a nair? Coz if so, the premise i had in mind would be to dair slightly away from the opponent to get that odd landing hitbox to come out and then follow up into a dtilt or go straight to the jab lock. Unfortunately I can't really test it out atm. So I just thought i'd toss out ideas.

 

[TwilightKirby]

Hey Yuna and gonzo, I think you both are just sorta misunderstanding the tone behind your posts since well, in writing tone is very subjective and people can read something in many different ways.

Gonzo I can totally see how you can take his posts offensively, but really its just how yuna writes. It seems like a lot of people argue with him because of this, but I really don't think he means to say anything bad about you or anything. He just states things he believes to be true. I mean obviously you two have started to have animosity against each other but originally it was just started by misunderstanding.

Yuna is just helping in the way he can and admits he knows very little about how a combo would be structred for kirby, but has a good idea of when something is escapable. It does in fact help us to progress if he points out when something doesn't work and you don't notice it. Besides hes not saying you can't test it against people to prove him wrong, he is actually encouraging you to do that. He just has a skeptical personality.

Oh and yuna try to see how to him it is kinda annoying when hes spending lots and lots of time trying to figure out a combo and you sorta seem to just quickly point out that it doesn't work.

Be nice to each other o.O I think we would get a lot farther without the hostility =)
*is now scared about getting double flamed* lol

also for cams post if what he does after the footstool works then is it possible to find a set up into that kind of footstool that works? Since before the nair wasn't quick enough.

Oh and its good to know that if the opponent misses a tech when hit by final cutter it can be punished with a jab lock nice find.

 

[FreakoFreako]

Hey, I'm wondering if the combo requires them to be at 0%? I'm guessing it only needs to be low enough that you can footstool jump them after.

What's the highest % the opponent can be if they're mid weight?

 

[Yuna]

Oh and yuna try to see how to him it is kinda annoying when hes spending lots and lots of time trying to figure out a combo and you sorta seem to just quickly point out that it doesn't work.

I do things swiftly and efficiently. I immediately point out that something doesn't work. Why would I sugar-coat it and go on and on about it? A swift severing of the head is actually less painful than repeatedly stabbing someone in the chest.

Be nice to each other o.O I think we would get a lot farther without the hostility =)
*is now scared about getting double flamed* lol

I've been perfectly civil in this thread, even when he told me to GFTO and stuff. If you read my posts, they stayed perfectly civil.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Samus got out of hitstun after U-tilt. This yet another case of "Well, what you do after FSJ works, but the combo into the FSJ does not work.".

So are you saying it worked after the FTJ? Because if so at least we got a little closer.

 

[Yuna]

So are you saying it worked after the FTJ? Because if so at least we got a little closer.

You say it works. I cannot check it right now as I'm far too busy (and lazy) to go my friend's house (I do not even own a Wii) to check it. I'm taking your word for it, but still, you should try it out on a human who DIs the FSJ.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

I've managed to get me to go basically nowhere and my eyes may be deceiving me but hit part of the N-air before my opponent hits the ground. I can try to post a poor quality vid if you like.

Edit: I know for a fact i can hit the player with a fastfalled N-air before they stop bouncing off the ground if you shorthop the footstool. I recorded a video and slowed it down. I can upload it shortly. I dont know if hitting them before they stop bouncing actually stops them from being able to roll or not but you can test. Then again all of this shorthopped footstool jumps may be worthless information you already know but it's worth a try.

Edit 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxVruR2D1GY, i think you may be able to footstool even shorter but idk.

U DID IT CAM

HOLY F'N **** U DID IT,

is it b/c u didnt DI? or what???

I think we should replace Utilt with Uair b/c it has more hit stun