Kingdom Hearts [SPOILERS]

[The Halloween Captain]

Except the fact that nomura has already stated he knows exactly how the series will end and that it won't be a ongoing series like final fantasy is. And every major plot line that wasn't explained at the beginning of kh2 was explained by the end.

I don't believe him.

It's not good buisness to stop making games in a highly successful and popular franchise because the plot is completed.

What's more, I don't believe everything was explained. Sure it was mostly backstory for Organization XIII, but when I played Kingdom Hearts II, I was under the assumption they were fully developed in Chain of Memories. Fact is, at the end of KH2 I had way more questions than at the end of KH1. The very style by which the story is told is meant to tease players through the game because of a desire to better understand a plot that I feel is never fully explained. Ultimately, it seems like the only option for understanding KH is to play every game on every platform. I refuse to do that.

(Note: I was really iritated that no one explained why there were only 7 or 8 members of Organization XIII in KH2. Since there were supposed to be XIII, and I was unaware that some of them were deceased. I still never fully understood what happened to the other members.)

EDIT: I wonder if Birth by Sleep will itself require a prequel...

EDIT2: I also wonder why all the members of organization 13 decided to scramble thier former names and add an X to it.

 

[Roxas215]

Yes, I know she's important now. When Nomura dangled her in front of me, a thousand questions popped up, and I would like them all answered. But my point is, that's all 358/2 Days is about to me. Getting answers. I want to know what happens to Xion for the sake of comprehension, but I don't actually care what happens to her. That's the problem. I'm so tired of the Org. nonsense that I've become completely apathetic toward them. I cared about Sora risking his life for his friends. I cared about Riku succumbing to the darkness. I cared about Kairi being captured and put in danger (to an extent). I do not care about Xion. She will surely be dead by the end of 358/2 and I won't miss her at all. And because of that, I wish Nomura wouldn't waste our time by throwing her into the story in the first place. I wish he would have just let the Organization be what it was and given us KH3 already. If I may make a terrible pun, I would like a game with some heart again, not just a game with lots of characters and plot twists for the sake of mystery.
.

Fair enough. Although days bbs and coded is better then just soley waiting on kh3 seeing as how the kh teams is working on ffvs13 and can't start on kh3 until they finish that game. Also nomura has already confirmed kh3 is indeed coming by stating that sora's story isn't done yet.

I don't believe him.

It's not good buisness to stop making games in a highly successful and popular franchise because the plot is completed.

What's more, I don't believe everything was explained. Sure it was mostly backstory for Organization XIII, but when I played Kingdom Hearts II, I was under the assumption they were fully developed in Chain of Memories. Fact is, at the end of KH2 I had way more questions than at the end of KH1. The very style by which the story is told is meant to tease players through the game because of a desire to better understand a plot that I feel is never fully explained. Ultimately, it seems like the only option for understanding KH is to play every game on every platform. I refuse to do that.

(Note: I was really iritated that no one explained why there were only 7 or 8 members of Organization XIII in KH2. Since there were supposed to be XIII, and I was unaware that some of them were deceased. I still never fully understood what happened to the other members.)

EDIT: I wonder if Birth by Sleep will itself require a prequel...

EDIT2: I also wonder why all the members of organization 13 decided to scramble thier former names and add an X to it.

So because u failed to play chain of memories to get the full story of the series you blame the actual plot?

And yes to FULLY understand the plot of the series you do have to play every game. Thats just the way it is.

And if u dont mind me asking what questions did u exactly have once u finished kh2?

Also the org names are their original names scrambled with a x.

1. Xemnas-> Ansem errr Xehanort
2. Xigbar-> Braig
3. Xaldin-> Dilan
4. Vexen-> Even
5. Lexaeus-> Eleaus
6. Zexion-> Ienzo

These are Diz's 6 apprentice's and are the only original names we actually know and of course you can add roxas=sora

Also why would bbs itself need a prequel. From the trailers it looks like we are actually witnessing the creation of kingdom hearts. If this is true there isn't anything to actually go back and explain.

 

[Roxas215]

**** dp again.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

So because u failed to play chain of memories to get the full story of the series you blame the actual plot?

And yes to FULLY understand the plot of the series you do have to play every game. Thats just the way it is.

And if u dont mind me asking what questions did u exactly have once u finished kh2?

I blame the actual plot for requiring me to buy chain of memories.

It's a spin-off card game for the GBA. I blame the plot for making me play the GBA card game, the cell phone game, and the PSP game to be understood, and I blame the plot for being important enough to the series that I have to play these games to like the series. With Mario, you could easily skip New Super Mario Bros. and not fell like you're missing something essential.

When I finished Kingdom Hearts 2 I wondered why so few Organization XIII members were present, who they were, how they experimented with Heartless, how exactly and where are Nobodies born (as we have yet to see a Nobody come into existance), How the Organization members had so much personality without hearts (yeah, Axel shouldn't have been able to do that self-sacrifice thing without a heart), why they all anagramed their original names with a X (to many X's, not enough reason), who Xehanort is, what was that message from Mickey at the end of KH2, etc. The most pressing of these for me would have to be the message from Mickey though, as I hate flashbacks as a solution to character development. Organization XIII is dead, their story is no longer relevent, I want to hear about the future of the universe now.

EDIT: Come on, you couldn't guess, that Axel was Alex?

 

[Roxas215]

I blame the actual plot for requiring me to buy chain of memories.

It's a spin-off card game for the GBA. I blame the plot for making me play the GBA card game, the cell phone game, and the PSP game to be understood, and I blame the plot for being important enough to the series that I have to play these games to like the series. With Mario, you could easily skip New Super Mario Bros. and not fell like you're missing something essential.

When I finished Kingdom Hearts 2 I wondered why so few Organization XIII members were present, who they were, how they experimented with Heartless, how exactly and where are Nobodies born (as we have yet to see a Nobody come into existance), How the Organization members had so much personality without hearts (yeah, Axel shouldn't have been able to do that self-sacrifice thing without a heart), why they all anagramed their original names with a X (to many X's, not enough reason), who Xehanort is, what was that message from Mickey at the end of KH2, etc. The most pressing of these for me would have to be the message from Mickey though, as I hate flashbacks as a solution to character development. Organization XIII is dead, their story is no longer relevent, I want to hear about the future of the universe now.

EDIT: Come on, you couldn't guess, that Axel was Alex?

Umm no. Seeing as how the x is only added to the name of the name of the nobody and not the actual human. Axel's original name was not Alex.

A nobody is what is left behind by those whose hearts have been consumed by Heartless. They are made of body and soul. Those with the strongest wills manage to retain human forms with some slight changes to their appearance.(This is actually in the ansem reports)

The fact that axel was able to do that is what make his and roxas relationship so special. Roxas while not having a "Actual" Heart still could feel the pain of having one because of his relationship to sora. Axel being roxas's close friend also could "feel" the emotions of having a heart while not actually having one.

The "x" in the name is just a sort of inauguration org members go through when they actually become members. Not every nobody has a x in their name. Only members of org 13.

The mickey letter is obviously a hint at kh3.(But could be answered in coded) Your suppose to be asking that question.

And like i said you can't blame the plot of the story because u failed to play a game that actually explains the question your asking.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

And like i said you can't blame the plot of the story because u failed to play a game that actually explains the question your asking.

Yes, because once again I can blame the plot of the story for requiring me to play a spin-off card game on a different console brand than the original.

Are you seriously going to argue that utilizing a plot that requires players to purchase new handhelds and a new cell phone is not a serious problem with the storytelling technique? Or that forcing players of an action RPG to play a completely different, card game system to understand the story's plot is not a hole in the logic of storytelling?

Kingdom Hearts is a series that criminally teases players with it's plot so that they will purchase new systems and play undesirable formats to understand it. No other series would ever force you to buy both a PSP AND a DS/GBA to get all the essential back story.

P.S.: Axel is Alex. Every member has exactly one X in their name, not two, and Axel does not come from Ale. He probably just kept the original X because putting two in would make his name the odd one out.

Also, Axel feeling emoptions because he knows a guy that feels emotions, or even having a close friend for that matter, sounds like a contradiction in the definition of what a nobody is.

 

[Minato]

Kingdom Hearts is a series that criminally teases players with it's plot so that they will purchase new systems and play undesirable formats to understand it. No other series would ever force you to buy both a PSP AND a DS/GBA to get all the essential back story.

Remember, this is Square. They'll do anything to make money.

P.S.: Axel is Alex. Every member has exactly one X in their name, not two, and Axel does not come from Ale. He probably just kept the original X because putting two in would make his name the odd one out.

You're just pulling this out of nowhere...
Why should he be the odd one out?

Anyways, I'll be looking forward to both games. It'll give me something to play.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Remember, this is Square. They'll do anything to make money.

You're just pulling this out of nowhere...
Why should he be the odd one out?

Anyways, I'll be looking forward to both games. It'll give me something to play.

Yes, I am pulling it out of nowhere.

All the names that are certain are anagrams. Of the names that are uncertain, I only guess when I see a short one.

Incidently, where did all the unknown nobodies come from? Like Axel and Larxene?

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
You guys are funny. But make sure that all of the information you are giving is correct. For example, I'm willing to bet $50 that both the Key-Blade and the Key-Chains need to be explained properly, since the Key-Blades have not been proven fake or real, simply due to the existance of the Key-Chain on them. It's also been theorized that the Chain is the way that the Blades can borrow power from others, since the blades themselves have also been thought as extentions of the person who made it themselves.
:flame:

 

[Roxas215]

Yes, because once again I can blame the plot of the story for requiring me to play a spin-off card game on a different console brand than the original.

Are you seriously going to argue that utilizing a plot that requires players to purchase new handhelds and a new cell phone is not a serious problem with the storytelling technique? Or that forcing players of an action RPG to play a completely different, card game system to understand the story's plot is not a hole in the logic of storytelling?

Kingdom Hearts is a series that criminally teases players with it's plot so that they will purchase new systems and play undesirable formats to understand it. No other series would ever force you to buy both a PSP AND a DS/GBA to get all the essential back story.

P.S.: Axel is Alex. Every member has exactly one X in their name, not two, and Axel does not come from Ale. He probably just kept the original X because putting two in would make his name the odd one out.

Also, Axel feeling emoptions because he knows a guy that feels emotions, or even having a close friend for that matter, sounds like a contradiction in the definition of what a nobody is.

Yes i can argue it. All of the MAJOR plotlines are explained in the console versions. Anything that pertains to sora who is the main char is explained in the console games. So a fan of the series who don't want to get the spin off games will still have a fair grasp at the overall story. But to FULLY understand the entire series then yes you have to play everygame. Look at this from a business standpoint. Releasing a game in a million selling series on a handheld is very beneficial. Also since these are spin offs these games dont require a BIG team to work on it like the console games does. Why do u think it took a full 3 yrs to remake chain of memories on the ps2? If every game in this series was on the ps2/ps3 it would take a good 3-4 yrs per game and i don't think any fan would like that.

And your whole Axel is Alex thing. Where are u getting this from? Nomura himself told us the original names of the 6 members and never once mentioned axel's name being alex. Until nomura himself tells us he don't have a official name. And it's already been stated that the x's are formed into the name when they join the org. Nomura himself stated so.

Also axel's and roxas relationship is a very important concept in the series. While at 1st it might seem contradicting to the rules(which lets face it probably is. Look at xion im sure whatever is the reason of her existence it is going to contradict the already established rules. ) But at the same time Roxas is a special nobody because of his relationship to sora. And since he can "feel" emotions Axel could too.

Incidently, where did all the unknown nobodies come from? Like Axel and Larxene?

Where exactly did larxene(or any of the other members) actually came from we don't know. But it's been accepted that they were merely recruited. In a scene in kingdom hearts 2 final mix we find out xigbar was sent on a mission from xemnas to recruit new members. While zexion was asking xigbar about this mission he said he was taking the day off and that he just recruited someone yesterday and that his new name was "mar" something(of course this is marluxia) During this scene marulixa was the 11th member added to the group so as of now only larxene roxas and xion weren't there(at this time roxas and xion weren't even born) Here is a link to that scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6_hwVoOu48

 

[KosukeKGA]

You guys argue about the stupidest stuff.

There just ALWAYS has to be something to nitpick at.

Just leave it alone. Jesus.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Yes i can argue it. All of the MAJOR plotlines are explained in the console versions. Anything that pertains to sora who is the main char is explained in the console games. So a fan of the series who don't want to get the spin off games will still have a fair grasp at the overall story. But to FULLY understand the entire series then yes you have to play everygame. Look at this from a business standpoint. Releasing a game in a million selling series on a handheld is very beneficial. Also since these are spin offs these games dont require a BIG team to work on it like the console games does. Why do u think it took a full 3 yrs to remake chain of memories on the ps2? If every game in this series was on the ps2/ps3 it would take a good 3-4 yrs per game and i don't think any fan would like that.

And your whole Axel is Alex thing. Where are u getting this from? Nomura himself told us the original names of the 6 members and never once mentioned axel's name being alex. Until nomura himself tells us he don't have a official name. And it's already been stated that the x's are formed into the name when they join the org. Nomura himself stated so.

Also axel's and roxas relationship is a very important concept in the series. While at 1st it might seem contradicting to the rules(which lets face it probably is. Look at xion im sure whatever is the reason of her existence it is going to contradict the already established rules. ) But at the same time Roxas is a special nobody because of his relationship to sora. And since he can "feel" emotions Axel could too.


Where exactly did larxene(or any of the other members) actually came from we don't know. But it's been accepted that they were merely recruited. In a scene in kingdom hearts 2 final mix we find out xigbar was sent on a mission from xemnas to recruit new members. While zexion was asking xigbar about this mission he said he was taking the day off and that he just recruited someone yesterday and that his new name was "mar" something(of course this is marluxia) During this scene marulixa was the 11th member added to the group so as of now only larxene roxas and xion weren't there(at this time roxas and xion weren't even born) Here is a link to that scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6_hwVoOu48

Actually, the names of those six Organization XIII members Nomura mentioned are in the game itself, you don't need Nomura to tell you them.

I know why it makes sense from a buisness standpoint (making a handheld, but not making an exclusive handheld - that one's beyond me), but I cannot understand why you would defend a practice that directly affects you and forces you to purchase hundred-dollar handhelds you would otherwise not own. There is no way the practice benefits fans, in fact it hurts them directly, so I fail to understand why any fan of the series would choose to defend it.

 

[Chill]

Wow Circus, you've pretty much said what I've been thinking this whole time.

 

[Circus]

I do read minds in my down time.

But seriously, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these things.

One quick thing on the topic of story comprehension over all the different platforms Kingdom Hearts games appear on: I do think it's very odd that Kingdom Hearts 2 makes absolutely no attempt to recap anything that happened in Chain of Memories out side of the opening video. I understand that Chain of Memories needs to be played to understand the storyline fully, but it would have been helpful if Kingdom Hearts 2 could have at least hinted at a few things. As it is, if I hadn't played Chain of Memories prior to KH2, I think I would have been really lost.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I do read minds in my down time.

But seriously, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these things.

One quick thing on the topic of story comprehension over all the different platforms Kingdom Hearts games appear on: I do think it's very odd that Kingdom Hearts 2 makes absolutely no attempt to recap anything that happened in Chain of Memories out side of the opening video. I understand that Chain of Memories needs to be played to understand the storyline fully, but it would have been helpful if Kingdom Hearts 2 could have at least hinted at a few things. As it is, if I hadn't played Chain of Memories prior to KH2, I think I would have been really lost.

I should have read your previous post the first time, as I also agree with you. My bad.

Also, you are correct kinda. For me, it feels like everything that I don't currently understand could be explained in a single game. The fact that it is not disappoints me. While the story is difficult to keep up with, with many plot problems sprouting from the fact that it was never even mentioned that Organization XIII was halved, fortunately, none of it interferes with the generalities of the story. What a heartless and what a nobody is is clear, that the nobodies are designed after the strong nobodies can be guessed, that the strong nobodies are named after their human counterparts is guessable. The only questions are about the history of Organization XIII and it's members. My understanding is that while CoM explains the history of Organization XIII, it doesn't do a good job with the origin story, and honestly, the only reason I actually care about the inner organization conflict and coup is because I didn't get to fight thirteen nobodies.

At least Jiminy keeps good notes, or else I would be really annoyed.

 

[GreenKirby]

One quick thing on the topic of story comprehension over all the different platforms Kingdom Hearts games appear on: I do think it's very odd that Kingdom Hearts 2 makes absolutely no attempt to recap anything that happened in Chain of Memories out side of the opening video.

Naminé: Sure. See? We meet again, like we promised.

Sora: Huh?

Roxas: You said we'd meet again, but when we did, we might not recognize each
other.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Naminé: Sure. See? We meet again, like we promised.

Sora: Huh?

Roxas: You said we'd meet again, but when we did, we might not recognize each
other.

What are you talking about?

 

[GreenKirby]

Circus said that there no mention of Chain of Memories in KH2. When in fact they had this convo in CoM:

Naminé: It may have started with a lie, but I'm really glad I met you, Sora.

Sora: Yeah, me too. When I found you... Even when I remembered your name, I was
so, so happy. The way I felt was no lie.

Naminé: Goodbye.

Sora: No, not goodbye! I'll find you again after I wake up. And we'll be
friends for real. Promise me, Naminé.

Naminé: You'll only forget.

Sora: I won't. Even if you take apart the chain of memories in my heart, the
links will stay there. This memory will always be inside me somewhere.

Naminé: I guess you're right. Let's promise, then.

Sora: I'll see you again, Naminé.

They shake hands and Sora jumps in contraption.

 

[Circus]

Okay, that's a callback to Chain of Memories, but it's not a recap at all. It actually further supports my point. If you didn't play Chain of Memories then the "we meet again" conversation kind of comes out of the blue. I mean, you can infer what's going on, but you don't get that A-ha! moment that the Chain of Memories players get.

Plus, if I remember correctly, that conversation comes up at the very end of the game. What I'm talking about is all the stuff before that. Like what happened to half of the Organization and how Riku and Mickey got out of Kingdom Hearts (although the explanation in Chain of Memories is a little sketchy).

These are things I'm trying to come up with right now. Since I did play Chain of Memories, I didn't have these questions, but I remember Kingdom Hearts 2 throwing a lot of stuff at you from the get-go that basically built right off of things that happened in Chain of Memories.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Okay, that's a callback to Chain of Memories, but it's not a recap at all. It actually further supports my point. If you didn't play Chain of Memories then the "we meet again" conversation kind of comes out of the blue. I mean, you can infer what's going on, but you don't get that A-ha! moment that the Chain of Memories players get.

Plus, if I remember correctly, that conversation comes up at the very end of the game. What I'm talking about is all the stuff before that. Like what happened to half of the Organization and how Riku and Mickey got out of Kingdom Hearts (although the explanation in Chain of Memories is a little sketchy).

These are things I'm trying to come up with right now. Since I did play Chain of Memories, I didn't have these questions, but I remember Kingdom Hearts 2 throwing a lot of stuff at you from the get-go that basically built right off of things that happened in Chain of Memories.

O.K. , now I agree with you completely. Before I was just accepting of a lot of plot because I didn't feel like figuring out the significance of it, but that last three posts alone exemplifies your point.

Maybe I just don't like the JRPG storytelling style, but The Kingdom Hearts series is the absolute worst game/series I've ever played when it comes to explaining details and trying to keep it's players up to date with the story.

Once again, it is the only series I know of that requires you to own multiple different platforms and play multiple different spin-offs to comprehend the story. I can't figure out why anyone would write a story that is literally impossible to read, financially speaking. (How many people do you know can afford a DS, a PSP, a PS2, and the required cell phone brand for the entire KH story?)

 

[SkylerOcon]

I do read minds in my down time.

But seriously, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these things.

One quick thing on the topic of story comprehension over all the different platforms Kingdom Hearts games appear on: I do think it's very odd that Kingdom Hearts 2 makes absolutely no attempt to recap anything that happened in Chain of Memories out side of the opening video. I understand that Chain of Memories needs to be played to understand the storyline fully, but it would have been helpful if Kingdom Hearts 2 could have at least hinted at a few things. As it is, if I hadn't played Chain of Memories prior to KH2, I think I would have been really lost.

I didn't play CoM before KH2. I kind of filled in the gaps on my own, but when I actually played CoM (found it used at Best Buy cheap), I realized I was wrong on quite a few points. it was pretty bad on Square's part to not even try to re-cap what happened in CoM.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I didn't play CoM before KH2. I kind of filled in the gaps on my own, but when I actually played CoM (found it used at Best Buy cheap), I realized I was wrong on quite a few points. it was pretty bad on Square's part to not even try to re-cap what happened in CoM.

Did you read Jiminy's log?

He includes a lot of details about the organization. I think a lot of it is from Chain of Memories. What's highly strange about it for anyone who hasn't played CoM is that it includes a lot of plot details Jiminy shouldn't know. It's actually a huge, glaring, but useful plot hole that's never really explained.

The weirdest thing about CoM is that it was impossible to know that it would be important to the plot. There wasn't very much explanation needed at the end of KH1, and then a spin-off card game on the handhelds came out, and the KH2, the official sequel, arrived. How was anyone supposed to know that a spin-off handheld of a game that only had a couple loose ends would already contain essential information for understanding the 2nd flagship game in the franchise?

 

[Roxas215]

I do read minds in my down time.

But seriously, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these things.

One quick thing on the topic of story comprehension over all the different platforms Kingdom Hearts games appear on: I do think it's very odd that Kingdom Hearts 2 makes absolutely no attempt to recap anything that happened in Chain of Memories out side of the opening video. I understand that Chain of Memories needs to be played to understand the storyline fully, but it would have been helpful if Kingdom Hearts 2 could have at least hinted at a few things. As it is, if I hadn't played Chain of Memories prior to KH2, I think I would have been really lost.

They do recap CoM a couple times. But it's not really relevant since (CoM spoilers)..................................






Sora doesn't remember anything anyway. CoM is really only good for introducing namine and DiZ, Axel's Plans, And for telling riku's story.

Also jimminy's journal and the secret ansem reports also recap events from CoM (All the CoM org members are in the journal and explains how they were defeated) seriously they are there for a reason. Read them!

Did you read Jiminy's log?

He includes a lot of details about the organization. I think a lot of it is from Chain of Memories. What's highly strange about it for anyone who hasn't played CoM is that it includes a lot of plot details Jiminy shouldn't know. It's actually a huge, glaring, but useful plot hole that's never really explained.

The weirdest thing about CoM is that it was impossible to know that it would be important to the plot. There wasn't very much explanation needed at the end of KH1, and then a spin-off card game on the handhelds came out, and the KH2, the official sequel, arrived. How was anyone supposed to know that a spin-off handheld of a game that only had a couple loose ends would already contain essential information for understanding the 2nd flagship game in the franchise?

Why wouldn't it hold essential information? It has 6 members wearing the same black hoodies the 2 people from the secret video in kh1 had on. It starts off RIGHT where the 1st game left off. It has a whole story mode for riku. If thats not important i dont know what is.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Why wouldn't it hold essential information? It has 6 members wearing the same black hoodies the 2 people from the secret video in kh1 had on. It starts off RIGHT where the 1st game left off. It has a whole story mode for riku. If thats not important i dont know what is.

Because it's a spin-off.

It was impossible to guess in advance that CoM would be important to the series. From a logistic standpoint, no PS2 owner alive would expect the next game in the series to be on a Nintendo system. Or on a handheld. Or a card game. Anyone (like myself) who immediately recognized it as a spin-off with sub-par graphics (as in, below PS2) and fighting mechanics that we were sceptical about would completely miss the game. Then we all got to KH2, the next game in the main series, and we were highly annoyed that the plot didn't make sense; it was a game that made the assumtion that we played a game that wasn't a true Kingdom Heart game. I myself was even more annoyed when my friends who played CoM told me that it didn't even answer my questions about KH2's plot, but that's another matter.

Even with Jiminy's log though, that's dozens of pages of reading, and it only gives non-CoM players a vague understanding of the previous game.

Spoiler

I don't hate CoM, as I never played it. But as a non-player who has no real understanding of CoM's plot, I hate everything it stands for in the KH series.

 

[Circus]

Sora doesn't remember anything anyway. CoM is really only good for introducing namine and DiZ, Axel's Plans, And for telling riku's story.

Alright, I'll give you this. I think that most players would be able to get the gist of things eventually, but trying to look at it from a non-CoM player's point of view, I think KH2 throws you into things very abruptly. After a while, you can pretty much piece together why Sora was in a pod, what Naminé was doing, etc. But you have to admit that the people who didn't play CoM must have been pretty thrown at first. It's a lot to take in. You have to meet Roxas, Axel, Naminé and DiZ, you have to learn that Sora is asleep and why, you have to learn about Riku getting out of Kingdom Hearts.... That's a lot to take in considering where the first game left off.

Also jimminy's journal and the secret ansem reports also recap events from CoM (All the CoM org members are in the journal and explains how they were defeated) seriously they are there for a reason. Read them!

I agree that the Ansem Reports especially are extremely helpful (vital, even) to understanding the gritty details of the universe, like the mechanics of the heart and the nobodies and the craziness with Naminé. But as far as the pages on the dead Org. members, it's good that that information is there, but the fact that that's the only way of finding out what happened to them is just lazy. The Ansem Reports and Jiminy's Journal should mainly be for extra, in-depth details of the story, in my opinion. Players that don't care to get quite that deep shouldn't have to search for the answer to something as basic as "What happened to half the Org. members?" That should be presented outright, in some way.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Because it's a spin-off.

It was impossible to guess in advance that CoM would be important to the series. From a logistic standpoint, no PS2 owner alive would expect the next game in the series to be on a Nintendo system. Or on a handheld. Or a card game. Anyone (like myself) who immediately recognized it as a spin-off with sub-par graphics (as in, below PS2) and fighting mechanics that we were sceptical about would completely miss the game. Then we all got to KH2, the next game in the main series, and we were highly annoyed that the plot didn't make sense; it was a game that made the assumtion that we played a game that wasn't a true Kingdom Heart game. I myself was even more annoyed when my friends who played CoM told me that it didn't even answer my questions about KH2's plot, but that's another matter.

Even with Jiminy's log though, that's dozens of pages of reading, and it only gives non-CoM players a vague understanding of the previous game.

Spoiler

I don't hate CoM, as I never played it. But as a non-player who has no real understanding of CoM's plot, I hate everything it stands for in the KH series.

:flame:
Question... aren't Spin-Offs usually things that aren't relevant at all? I agree to the point that Chain of Memories should not have been on the GameBoyAdvance if most of the Kingdom Hearts have been on the Play-Station series. That is probably what through people for a loup.

But since it was the next game released, I don't see how people wouldn't have thought that it wasn't important.... since it WAS a sequal.... and you say card game like it's one of the thousands of trading cards that line the spokes of little kid's bikes. They used a very strange fighting mechanic, but it's still fun. Also, do not dis-handhelds. Handhelds are awesome. And since when has Nintendo cared about Graphics? They've always cared about the game play elements themselves, and yet the games still look fine. For that time, PS2 Graphics were.. okay.. but Graphics alone do not make a game... and if you couldn't have spared a few bucks to have atleast rented it, then sucks to be you for not only missing out on a good game, but also being lost as to what happened (despite the information they give you in Kingdom Hearts 2). And how the heck was Chain of Memories NOT a Kingdom Hearts game? Key-Blade... Disney Characters.... Nobodies and Heartless..... KeyBladeMaster.... Square Enix... sounds like all of the elements used in Kingdom Hearts before.... and did your friends fully pay attention to the plot? If you played everything, there shouldn't be too many holes left (other than things that already are going to be obviously explained in the next couple of games). And if you still haven't even played it, then you're really just doing yourself a miss-service. There is an even better version of it that IS on the PS2, in case you don't know. You could go and check it out.

One of the things that I haven't had answered yet, however, is the Key-Chain and it's significance to the Key-Blade. I don't believe that a Key-Blade requires a Key-Chain to be real, specifically because of Terra. One of the Key-Blade Masters before Sora, who is (as of now) the most poweful boss in the series, and the 2nd strongest KeyBlade Master (Sora's the 1st in my oppinion). His Keyblade doesn't have a KeyChain on it, and yet it's definitely a KeyBlade, and he's definitely kicking butt with it. I'm sure it's not fake. I heard something about the Key-Chain being an extension of the power of the person who created it (which would be supported by Sora using the Key-Chains of his friends, and his Key-Blade being transformed every time a new chain is attached), but untl the new games come out, this is all mainly theories.
:flame:

 

[The Halloween Captain]

:flame:
Question... aren't Spin-Offs usually things that aren't relevant at all? I agree to the point that Chain of Memories should not have been on the GameBoyAdvance if most of the Kingdom Hearts have been on the Play-Station series. That is probably what through people for a loup.
:flame:

Yes, my criticism of CoM is that Spin-Offs are usually aren't relevant at all.

It's also not supposed to be a direct sequel. It was, but it shouldn't have been because it's a spin-off.

For me, a game should have a "2" at the end before they completely ditch the numbering system. Heck, there should be a "2" at the end before there's a spin-off of any game.

What makes CoM not a Kingdom Hearts game is what makes Paper Mario not a Mario platformer (except Paper Mario was awesome in it's own right). In my eyes, I don't care about it. Different graphical style, different play mechanics, the gameplay is too fundamentally different to claim that it's a true kingdom hearts in the way which is most important - the gameplay.

The most important aspect of a game so that it is not a spinoff is it must share the gameplay elements of it's precedesor. Even that is questionable, as Pokemon Colloseum is considered a spin-off in spite of being exactly the same gameplay-wise as the handhelds. Heck, the only difference between the gamecube colloseum games and the handhelds is that the former were on a console and used slightly different catching and battling mechanics. Now considering the minor differences between Pokemon and it's spin-off Colloseum to the differences between CoM and KH, and CoM is clearly, blatantly a spinoff which for no reason I can figure Square decided to make relevent to the plot.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Yes, my criticism of CoM is that Spin-Offs are usually aren't relevant at all.

It's also not supposed to be a direct sequel. It was, but it shouldn't have been because it's a spin-off.

For me, a game should have a "2" at the end before they completely ditch the numbering system. Heck, there should be a "2" at the end before there's a spin-off of any game.

What makes CoM not a Kingdom Hearts game is what makes Paper Mario not a Mario platformer (except Paper Mario was awesome in it's own right). In my eyes, I don't care about it. Different graphical style, different play mechanics, the gameplay is too fundamentally different to claim that it's a true kingdom hearts in the way which is most important - the gameplay.

The most important aspect of a game so that it is not a spinoff is it must share the gameplay elements of it's precedesor. Even that is questionable, as Pokemon Colloseum is considered a spin-off in spite of being exactly the same gameplay-wise as the handhelds. Heck, the only difference between the gamecube colloseum games and the handhelds is that the former were on a console and used slightly different catching and battling mechanics. Now considering the minor differences between Pokemon and it's spin-off Colloseum to the differences between CoM and KH, and CoM is clearly, blatantly a spinoff which for no reason I can figure Square decided to make relevent to the plot.

:flame:
Dude, the fact that it actually is part of the plot, and that it was the official sequal to the first game means that it is most definitely not a Spin Off. Not everything has to use the number system to be marked as part of the main series. Colloseum and the Shadow Pokemon insident is a spin off because Wes' adventures in the Orre Region are only relevant to playing Pokemon Ruby/Saphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen because Pokemon can be imported though both ways. But the story that had been begun since Red/Blue/Yellow was not effected by Stadium or Colloseum, so of course they are spinoffs to the main series. However, notice that not a single one of the main games (Red/Blue/Yellow/Green Gold/Silver/Crystal Ruby/Saphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen Diamond/Pearl/Platinum) don't have numbers around them, which doesn't make them spin offs. The story still compounds, with each new region discovered, with trainers both old and new checking them out, and with each new generation of Pokemon appearing (granted, the cross from Gold/Silver/Crystal to Ruby/Saphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen was close to being questionable).

Until Super Paper Mario (which was a return to the platforming era but was still an rpg), Paper Mario wasn't planned to be a Platformer. They wanted it to be something like Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars (which will always be the greatest video game ever), but they decided to go in a different direction with it. Also, Mario's not really a good choice for a "series" game anyway. The Cronology of Mario is crazy, especially since very few of the Mario games is anything like the game that spawned them all (Donkey Kong).

And just because a game has a new way of playing does not make it a Spin Off, so long as it's events are still relevant to the actual series of the game. For example:Starfox Adventures was maybe .5% Arwing flying ship destroying meteor blasting fun, but because of it introducing other planets, bringing Krystal into the Starfox World, and detailing a mission that the gang had been up to after they had defeated Andross th first time, it is relevant to the Starfox Story. And also, the Metroid Series has switched several times from left-to-right sidescrolling Platformer to huge-expansive 3d adventure, but except for Metroid Prime Pinball, most of the games still go with eachother in a fairly linear fashion, with (again) only a couple numbers used for names.

Chain of Memories IS NOT a Spin Off. It's different, but it's still a very relevant game in the series. The worst thing about it was that it came out on a differen't companies system, but other than that, there really is no argument for it being a spin off other than personal thought.
:flame:

 

[The Halloween Captain]

:flame:
Dude, the fact that it actually is part of the plot, and that it was the official sequal to the first game means that it is most definitely not a Spin Off. Not everything has to use the number system to be marked as part of the main series. Colloseum and the Shadow Pokemon insident is a spin off because Wes' adventures in the Orre Region are only relevant to playing Pokemon Ruby/Saphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen because Pokemon can be imported though both ways. But the story that had been begun since Red/Blue/Yellow was not effected by Stadium or Colloseum, so of course they are spinoffs to the main series. However, notice that not a single one of the main games (Red/Blue/Yellow/Green Gold/Silver/Crystal Ruby/Saphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen Diamond/Pearl/Platinum) don't have numbers around them, which doesn't make them spin offs. The story still compounds, with each new region discovered, with trainers both old and new checking them out, and with each new generation of Pokemon appearing (granted, the cross from Gold/Silver/Crystal to Ruby/Saphire/Emerald/FireRed/LeafGreen was close to being questionable).

Until Super Paper Mario (which was a return to the platforming era but was still an rpg), Paper Mario wasn't planned to be a Platformer. They wanted it to be something like Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars (which will always be the greatest video game ever), but they decided to go in a different direction with it. Also, Mario's not really a good choice for a "series" game anyway. The Cronology of Mario is crazy, especially since very few of the Mario games is anything like the game that spawned them all (Donkey Kong).

And just because a game has a new way of playing does not make it a Spin Off, so long as it's events are still relevant to the actual series of the game. For example:Starfox Adventures was maybe .5% Arwing flying ship destroying meteor blasting fun, but because of it introducing other planets, bringing Krystal into the Starfox World, and detailing a mission that the gang had been up to after they had defeated Andross th first time, it is relevant to the Starfox Story. And also, the Metroid Series has switched several times from left-to-right sidescrolling Platformer to huge-expansive 3d adventure, but except for Metroid Prime Pinball, most of the games still go with eachother in a fairly linear fashion, with (again) only a couple numbers used for names.

Chain of Memories IS NOT a Spin Off. It's different, but it's still a very relevant game in the series. The worst thing about it was that it came out on a differen't companies system, but other than that, there really is no argument for it being a spin off other than personal thought.
:flame:

I don't care if it's relevent to the series. Luigi's Mansion was relevent to the Mario series. Pokemon Colloseum is relevent to the Pokemon series. Freshly picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland is relevent to the Zelda series (in it's own way). And Starfox adventures is only itself not a spinoff because of a technicality - there were no other Starfox games on the gamecube, so it was the only gamecube starfox. (I personally view it as very close to a spinoff though, Like Kirby's Air Ride).

CoM is as much a spinoff as Colloseum for Pokemon. The mere fact that there is trading in Colloseum means that it is a part of the main pokemon series in it's own way, and yet, even you recognize it as a spinoff. CoM is even more detatched from KH's then Colloseum was from Pokemon. Therefore, CoM, and even Birth By Sleep, are both spin-offs.

One of the biggest qualifiers for spin-off, BTW, is that if the original is on a console, then all the handheld installments are automatically the spin-offs. I consider every handheld Zelda a spin-off of the main series - a relevent one, but not a part of the main LoZ series none-the-less. The reverse is also true - if the series starts on a handheld, then all console iterations are automatically spin-offs - even if they are so relevent to eachother than the handheld games communicate with the console games.

I'm sorry, but if you think Colloseum is a spinoff, I can't understand how you can think CoM's isn't one. Likewise, I think Colloseum is a spinoff, so I cannot understand how CoM's isn't one.

 

[Roxas215]

[/B]The Ansem Reports and Jiminy's Journal should mainly be for extra, in-depth details of the story, in my opinion. Players that don't care to get quite that deep shouldn't have to search for the answer to something as basic as "What happened to half the Org. members?" That should be presented outright, in some way.

There is another way of finding out what happen to them. Play the game that actually features them.

:flame:


One of the things that I haven't had answered yet, however, is the Key-Chain and it's significance to the Key-Blade. I don't believe that a Key-Blade requires a Key-Chain to be real, specifically because of Terra. One of the Key-Blade Masters before Sora, who is (as of now) the most poweful boss in the series, and the 2nd strongest KeyBlade Master (Sora's the 1st in my oppinion). His Keyblade doesn't have a KeyChain on it, and yet it's definitely a KeyBlade, and he's definitely kicking butt with it. I'm sure it's not fake. I heard something about the Key-Chain being an extension of the power of the person who created it (which would be supported by Sora using the Key-Chains of his friends, and his Key-Blade being transformed every time a new chain is attached), but untl the new games come out, this is all mainly theories.
:flame:

There is more evidence that supports terra's aqua's and ven's keyblade being fake then there is of it being real.

1st the obvious fact is that ven's keyblade breaks. There have never been any mention or even hints at keyblades able to be broken or even damaged.

2nd less obvious theory is the way terra summons his keyblade. He don't summon it the same way mickey/sora does. Rather it has a sort of digital look when he summons it. Similar to how roxas summons his in the digital world of twilight town in kh2 where we all know that keyblade was fake as well.

3rd is the least relevant but still holds some merit. In the very 1st secret trailer on the original kh2 mickey's sora's and riku's keyblade was picked up by terra aqua and ven. However in sunset horizon's(the exteneded trailer in kingdom hearts 2 final mix) There keyblades were no where to be found. This is led to believe that sora's mickey's and riku's keyblade was just concept thoughts and later thrown out. Maybe because there can't be connections between real and fake keyblades. Like i said this theory is really nothing to consider though as it's ver far off.

I don't care if it's relevent to the series. Luigi's Mansion was relevent to the Mario series. Pokemon Colloseum is relevent to the Pokemon series. Freshly picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland is relevent to the Zelda series (in it's own way). And Starfox adventures is only itself not a spinoff because of a technicality - there were no other Starfox games on the gamecube, so it was the only gamecube starfox. (I personally view it as very close to a spinoff though, Like Kirby's Air Ride).

CoM is as much a spinoff as Colloseum for Pokemon. The mere fact that there is trading in Colloseum means that it is a part of the main pokemon series in it's own way, and yet, even you recognize it as a spinoff. CoM is even more detatched from KH's then Colloseum was from Pokemon. Therefore, CoM, and even Birth By Sleep, are both spin-offs.

One of the biggest qualifiers for spin-off, BTW, is that if the original is on a console, then all the handheld installments are automatically the spin-offs. I consider every handheld Zelda a spin-off of the main series - a relevent one, but not a part of the main LoZ series none-the-less. The reverse is also true - if the series starts on a handheld, then all console iterations are automatically spin-offs - even if they are so relevent to eachother than the handheld games communicate with the console games.

I'm sorry, but if you think Colloseum is a spinoff, I can't understand how you can think CoM's isn't one. Likewise, I think Colloseum is a spinoff, so I cannot understand how CoM's isn't one.

Nomura has already stated that CoM is a direct sequel to kh1. It seems your reasons of saying it was a spin off was because of the card game mechanics. The only reason they went the card route was because it was less demanding on the gba hardware then it would of been to have a outright kh system in play. And in fact the card system still contained the kh battle formula used in the 1st game. The game also starts off DIRECTLY AFTER THE 1ST GAME. Features all the main cast and further's the plot of the series. How can you not consider it a sequel? To compare CoM to Colosseum is both delusional and outright wrong. Here is also something to think about. Nomura started work on kh2 before CoM. However he wanted a game to hold the fans over before kh2 and also need a way to explain riku's story. This is the real reason why CoM was made in the 1st place and why it was on the gba execpt for the ps2. Nomura had more story to tell before jumping into kh2 but also didn't need a full blown game to do it.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

There is another way of finding out what happen to them. Play the game that actually features them.

The people who didn't bother playing CoM are the people who wouldn't bother reading through Jiminy's journal, and visa-versa. Try Again.


Nomura has already stated that CoM is a direct sequel to kh1. It seems your reasons of saying it was a spin off was because of the card game mechanics. The only reason they went the card route was because it was less demanding on the gba hardware then it would of been to have a outright kh system in play. And in fact the card system still contained the kh battle formula used in the 1st game. The game also starts off DIRECTLY AFTER THE 1ST GAME. Features all the main cast and further's the plot of the series. How can you not consider it a sequel? To compare CoM to Colosseum is both delusional and outright wrong. Here is also something to think about. Nomura started work on kh2 before CoM. However he wanted a game to hold the fans over before kh2 and also need a way to explain riku's story. This is the real reason why CoM was made in the 1st place and why it was on the gba execpt for the ps2. Nomura had more story to tell before jumping into kh2 but also didn't need a full blown game to do it.

Doesn't matter if it's a direct sequel. Doesn't matter the reason for the change of mechanics. It's on a handheld and features significantly different play mechanics, thus it's a spin-off, and quite frankly, should not be relevent to the story. I don't care what his reasoning behind the decisions were as it has no relevence to the properties the final product ultimately possessed; he made the direct sequel to KH a spin-off, and I absolutely hate CoM for that.

 

[Jimnymebob]

The newest trailer (the in-store one) for 358/2 Days looks amazing.
If I didn't already want that game, that trailer has definitely sold it for me XD.

The graphics seem like some of the best on the DS, in terms of 3D, and the cutscenes look good.
The gameplay looks similar to the original, which was my favourite, so that's good, and multiplayer only seems to make the package better.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Doesn't matter if it's a direct sequel. Doesn't matter the reason for the change of mechanics. It's on a handheld and features significantly different play mechanics, thus it's a spin-off, and quite frankly, should not be relevent to the story. I don't care what his reasoning behind the decisions were as it has no relevence to the properties the final product ultimately possessed; he made the direct sequel to KH a spin-off, and I absolutely hate CoM for that.

:flame:
In all honest, the Mechanics aren't really too different from Kingdom Heart 1 and 2. I know this sounds stupid, but here me out. All 3 games require lots of button-mashing (not as bad as the rapid-button-pressing). All 3 games use KeyBlade hand to hand Combat, Magical Spells, Healing Items, and Character Summons. All 3 Games have Sora trying to jump, dodge and block ridiculously huge attacks (actually easier to do with the Card System) that would have probably sent any weaker beings to their doom (13-year olds). The only thing that makes Chain of Memories different is that it's in a more RPG setting (moving Sora to a new "Arena" instead of fighting in the area you were in), and that you make the map basically the way you want to (which is kind of a good thing, being able to create your own save stations or being able to train). The Mechanics haven't really been viewed as too much of a change or too bad, and I'm not sure if you would be complaining if you had played it yourself.

And as for the Handheld game issue; I have two things to say to you. Super Mario Land, Super Mario Land 2, New Super Mario Bros.
Legend of Zelda:Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks.Sonic Advanced, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rivals.Metroid Prime Hunters, Metroid Fusion, Metroid 2:The Return of Samus.Heck, even the Arena based games of Pokemon are argued to be a varitable Sub-Series, but not a full-blown spinoff, especially compared to the Puzzle, Trading Card, and Adventures series of Pokemon. The above listed games, amoung others, have one big detail in common:Not a single one was on the same type of system as it's first game in the cannon-series, and yet people would have to be on pot to try to claim them to be Spinoffs, specifically because of them linking up with the main story line (granted, people can argue that Mario is timeless, and that could very well be true). And Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories fills in the huge gap that people miss between 1 and 2, assuming you played it after 2 because of it being on a Nintendo system. My second comment is this: If you really have such a huge issue with the Handheld version, and if that's the biggest reason you're claiming it's a spin-off (despite it's maker making it as a sequal, and around 90% of the world agreeing),

...

Why don't you just play the Console version?

...


And back to the issue of Terra and the "fake" keyblade, has anyone proven that Key-Blades that are real can't be broken? Can you honestly prove that it's not possible? Then again, I can understand the rational behind beliving that something that is breakable is a knock-off... But explain this to me then, and this is all just for personal satisfaction, not trying to insult or challenge anyone.
WHY WOULD A KEYBLADE MASTER WHO REQUIRES A FULL POWER SORA WITH POSSIBLY HIS LIMIT FORMS USE A FAKE KEYBLADE?
I don't buy the issue about the graphics around the Blade when Terra would summon it. That's honestly probably for details (again, until Birth by Sleep comes out, all of this is theory), and probably doesn't have too much of a bearing on the Blade's status as real or not. And the cutscenes at the end of the game for kicking butt and taking names, they are mainly food for thought. A lot of what happens can be truthful, but still, until the games come out, we really don't know for sure. Also, as for the two cutscenes in question, they could have been different momments in time, for all we know...
:flame:

 

[The Halloween Captain]

:flame:
In all honest, the Mechanics aren't really too different from Kingdom Heart 1 and 2. I know this sounds stupid, but here me out. All 3 games require lots of button-mashing (not as bad as the rapid-button-pressing). All 3 games use KeyBlade hand to hand Combat, Magical Spells, Healing Items, and Character Summons. All 3 Games have Sora trying to jump, dodge and block ridiculously huge attacks (actually easier to do with the Card System) that would have probably sent any weaker beings to their doom (13-year olds). The only thing that makes Chain of Memories different is that it's in a more RPG setting (moving Sora to a new "Arena" instead of fighting in the area you were in), and that you make the map basically the way you want to (which is kind of a good thing, being able to create your own save stations or being able to train). The Mechanics haven't really been viewed as too much of a change or too bad, and I'm not sure if you would be complaining if you had played it yourself.

And as for the Handheld game issue; I have two things to say to you. Super Mario Land, Super Mario Land 2, New Super Mario Bros.
Legend of Zelda:Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks.Sonic Advanced, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rivals.Metroid Prime Hunters, Metroid Fusion, Metroid 2:The Return of Samus.Heck, even the Arena based games of Pokemon are argued to be a varitable Sub-Series, but not a full-blown spinoff, especially compared to the Puzzle, Trading Card, and Adventures series of Pokemon. The above listed games, amoung others, have one big detail in common:Not a single one was on the same type of system as it's first game in the cannon-series, and yet people would have to be on pot to try to claim them to be Spinoffs, specifically because of them linking up with the main story line (granted, people can argue that Mario is timeless, and that could very well be true). And Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories fills in the huge gap that people miss between 1 and 2, assuming you played it after 2 because of it being on a Nintendo system. My second comment is this: If you really have such a huge issue with the Handheld version, and if that's the biggest reason you're claiming it's a spin-off (despite it's maker making it as a sequal, and around 90% of the world agreeing),

...

Why don't you just play the Console version?

...


And back to the issue of Terra and the "fake" keyblade, has anyone proven that Key-Blades that are real can't be broken? Can you honestly prove that it's not possible? Then again, I can understand the rational behind beliving that something that is breakable is a knock-off... But explain this to me then, and this is all just for personal satisfaction, not trying to insult or challenge anyone.
WHY WOULD A KEYBLADE MASTER WHO REQUIRES A FULL POWER SORA WITH POSSIBLY HIS LIMIT FORMS USE A FAKE KEYBLADE?
I don't buy the issue about the graphics around the Blade when Terra would summon it. That's honestly probably for details (again, until Birth by Sleep comes out, all of this is theory), and probably doesn't have too much of a bearing on the Blade's status as real or not. And the cutscenes at the end of the game for kicking butt and taking names, they are mainly food for thought. A lot of what happens can be truthful, but still, until the games come out, we really don't know for sure. Also, as for the two cutscenes in question, they could have been different momments in time, for all we know...
:flame:

Once again, I can't play CoM because I hate what it stands for.

When I say hate, I mean I completely despise the game for existing. I am not rational about this dislike; in fact, it is a totally irrational responce caused by the fact that I am/was a fan of the series. I haven't actually played any of the games you listed as handheld non-spin-offs, partially because I do view them as spin-offs on a personal level, but more importantly, I view them as inherently inferior to the console iterations. The "cheap" version, as on principle, I believe that console games are inherently superior than handhelds unless the handheld game is benefitted in some ways by the lack of technology - A.K.A Phoenix Wright and Pokemon.

In other words, because I am actually a huge fan of kingdom hearts in certain ways, I lack the ability to enjoy CoM, or any handheld iteration of KH for that matter, and despise them for both existing and for being relevent to the plot. CoM is an incredibly sore point for me, and due to my disdain of it, I highly doubt I could enjoy even the console version.

Sorry that I'm a fanboy in this reguard. It's actually quite annoying even for myself, as I would love to know the plot of CoM through something canonical (once again on a personal level), like KH2.

Other things that I dislike are prequels, flashbacks, long intros, and when games that would traditionally come out on a system I own are exclusive to other systems (Helloooo Sonic 06 (and goodbyeeee my interest in Sonic)). Although I love journals, just so long as I'm not forced to relive history at the convenience of the developer.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Let me get this straight, you hate CoM for being on the GBA, and because SQUARE-ENIX tried something different?

If it would have been on the PS2 with the exact same gameplay as the original people would have complained about it.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Let me get this straight, you hate CoM for being on the GBA, and because SQUARE-ENIX tried something different?

If it would have been on the PS2 with the exact same gameplay as the original people would have complained about it.

Why? Did someone complain about KH2?

I hate CoM for being on the GBA, and because SQUARE-ENIX tried to do something different gameplay-wise while dealing with essential plot elements. To be fair, I would only be uninterested if it hadn't contained so much plot, but now that I know what I'm missing by not caring about it, and I hate that it requires me to be interested in playing CoM, when I will never want to play that game as a stand-alone game. There is nothing wrong with the gameplay, just everything CoM's stands for - forcing new gameplay and format on uninterested fans.

That's the problem with story-based game series; If you don't care about a Mario game, you can skip it. Uninterested in a Pokemon game, skip that too. If a Zelda game doesn't strike your interest, skip it. Ignore a KH's game, and that fact that you didn't play it will come back to haunt you repeatedly, reminding you that you didn't play it so you will never fully understand the plot. At least with the Metroid Prime series the plot isn't important enough to require that I play every game - My first Metroid game was Metriod Prime 3, and the plot and gameplay stood alone sufficiently that I did not need to care about the events preceding Metroid Prime 3. Sure I felt I was missing stuff, but the logs were fun and it made sense even without falling back on the backstory supplied by the other games.

You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT skip a Kingdom Hearts game and NOT have the plot scream in your face "I would make sense if you just played _______." What makes all this even worse, IMAO, is that rather than leave the broken mess of a plot behind and just procede to KH3, it seems like we are going to recieve an endless number of prequels. I don't care about any KH's game other than KH3 at the moment, because to me, they are all useless explanation of a plot that was finished (albeit poorly explained) in KH2. Currently, I greatly anticipate leaving everything about the organization behind, and playing a KH that can stand alone. If I don't get that with KH3, then I'm probably not going to play KH3, as I hate the fractured mess of the KH continuity, and lets face it; if it can't stand alone, it's probably not a very good game.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
So Basically, you're hating just to hate, and you know it.
You really should try Re:Chain of Memories for the PS2. Besides the rental price, what's stoping you, besides your own hate?

I want Philly or Circus back here, so we can talk about something else besides the Hate. I want to address the KeyChains more, instead of talking about a Captain who's almost ready to become a Heartless, just because he wants to.
:flame:

 

[Jimnymebob]

Why? Did someone complain about KH2?

KH2 had different gameplay than the original, it shared some similarities but had it's differences.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

KH2 had different gameplay than the original, it shared some similarities but had it's differences.

:flame:
People called Xemnas "fail" because at the very end of the last fight, you rapidly press Triangle to defeat him. Button Mashing was also looked down on (which isn't as prevailent in Chain of Memories unless you plan for your deck to allow it).
:flame:

 

[The Halloween Captain]

:flame:
So Basically, you're hating just to hate, and you know it.
You really should try Re:Chain of Memories for the PS2. Besides the rental price, what's stoping you, besides your own hate?

I want Philly or Circus back here, so we can talk about something else besides the Hate. I want to address the KeyChains more, instead of talking about a Captain who's almost ready to become a Heartless, just because he wants to.
:flame:

Fair enough.

If it makes you feel any better, I just don't care about it is also accurate. I dislike needing to look at something that I don't care about to understand something I do care about.

I know there were differences between KH and KH2, but weren't most the differences subtle changes in the menu system and a couple of additions like summons and super sayan Sora?

EDIT: I forgot that the final part of the Xemnas battle was a quick time event.

Why can't final bosses ever be hard enough in their own right anymore such that new gameplay doesn't need to be introduced to make them harder? I would love if I genuinely couldn't beat Xemnas only because I am not good enough at playing Kingdom Hearts, not because I'm not good enough at flying and pressing a button repeatedly.