Kid Icarus Uprising

[Life]

So I ran into MKDH in LVD just now. For those not familiar, MKDH is the guy on GameFAQs who complains about trade-off all the time; he was playing a very defensive Skyscraper Club (OD+7/Health+6 with few stars) so I'm pretty sure it's the same guy.

Since I'm playing a weapon capable of OHKOing through a pretty significant amount of defense (probably not THAT much but I'd still put a massive dent in it), and I argue with him a lot, I kinda wished I could have played the opposite team, but we both ended up on the same team. So I tried to outscore him instead.

What followed was the most effective I've been on LVD since I got this weapon. (This was coming off a run where I was basically being hunted down by a Brawler Claws and blowing all my warp charges in the first minute and a half of the game while not being able to tag him once. Melee claws wreck Flintlock.) I realized that when I stick around a tanky weapon like that I don't have to worry about melee harassment. Works great. Get a decent claw to act as a focus we can give covering fire to...

In other words, I think it might be time to start thinking about team comps.

Club/Staff/X seems to be pretty effective judging by those games (although it probably gets wrecked by Eyetracks). So is triple-Claw. Magnus Club combos nicely with continuous fire weapons like Palms, certain Claws, Phosphora Bow, anything to pin the opponent down so Magnus can get in.

What are your favorite team compositions? In other words, what weapons do you like to see on your teammates?

 

[DunnoBro]

I like a high defense and decent speed melee player to tank the main field and hunt down snipers. An alternative player, like guardian orbitars, greedy claws, ancient staff. Or something more about disruption like playing compact arm, or ailment inflicting cont. fire weapons.

While i use a long-range weapon, probably eyetracks. Speaking of, made a prototype of my perfect eyetracks today.

Wanted one with health +6 and shot defense +2 to handle being targeted, along with the normal mods except homing since i use homing boost anyway. Only got health +2 but my survival rate has gone up tremendously, and my kill rate is virtually the same. Also, even no homing mod eyetracks have ******** homing.

 

[---]

Just got a Laser Staff with +8 Defence, +2 Shot Range, and +4 Speed (BTW what does Speed do?).

Doesn't have any Stars, but I hope it's good for sniping, it's certainly good for not dying (played 4 matches, only died once). On the practice range, thanks to the Range Boost I can hit an opponent at the 150 mark line.

Also played around with Warp a little bit more, I like how you can use it while you're knocked down for a lagless recovery and easy escape.

 

[DunnoBro]

Speed increases both running, AND walking speed. But not as much as the specific mods at that level.
It's also a good midway between getting stamina and speed on the same weapon, as you walk fast too but it gets stamina back.

Also I just found atomsk in a random FFA.

 

[Life]

Really!? I knew dabuz played (does he still? I wonder) but that's pretty cool. (BTW, I've been trying to fuse a mock-up version of Impatient Claws for testing [I happened to have +5 FHB on a melee weapon, and +4 MDA/+4 speed on other melee weapons] and getting FHB to carry over is a royal pain. I don't have access to multiple systems for weapon gem cloning and I don't have many melee-only weapons remaining... I think I'm more impatient than the weapon LOL)

---, are you using energy charge with it?

Also, is anyone else noticing a metagame shift to more continuous-fire weapons? They have advantages over OHKO weapons (harder to dodge shots, better at applying status, negating Energy Charge more easily, generally better homing than most OHKO weapons, in some cases high enough shot cancellation to negate Eyetracks and the like, easier to transition from dodging to attacking and back, and most importantly they make it difficult for melee weapons to approach) which make them much more viable than theorycarus would suggest.

 

[DunnoBro]

Don't bother with impatient claws unless you're using running speed +4... It's faster than speed +4 so FHB is just wasted without it.

 

[Life]

Just trying to make it easier since I have zero luck with fusions ever. :/

Guess I'll go back to getting everything on 9.0 then.

 

[Linkshot]

Also I just found atomsk in a random FFA.

Saw that too, but I knew an atomsk in a different community so maybe not him

Anyway, as far as team combos go, I just try to assess what my best teammate is using and switch to a set that compliments it. If my teammate is using a Staff/Bow, I'll switch to my Upperdash set so that I can harass whoever he's targetting. Likewise, if they're harassing, I'll use either Flintlock or Phosphora, depending on whether they're pinning or need a pin.

I once had a guy with Silver Bow (maybe Sagittarius?) and knew exactly what he was doing (always scored more than 1k points). I pulled out my Upperdash set and basically pinned all targets down through Lightweight + Transparency + Virus for him to pick off. Quick, successive, seeking shots with just the right amount of knockback and dealing Shaking while keeping pressure on...well, the Bow support has a field day with those victims.

Oh, and if my teammates need a wall to get past claws/blades/orbitars, I have a nifty Crusader set.

 

[---]

---, are you using energy charge with it?

Yep, I've already been trying to use it with Quick Charge as well. Can't say either power is my favorite though as I'm a more offensive kind of guy.

 

[Life]

Great Reaper Palm question (I just got a pretty decent one from the store). I notice on the training Monoeye that sometimes my GRP circles around to track it and sometimes it just passes through and continues. This happens both with and without homing boost. Why? Should I worry?

Here's the stats:
value 303
5/0
OD+2
Weakening+2 (does it stack with natural weakening BTW?)
Walking Speed +3
FDCS +4
DCF +3

Has nice charged shots AND continuous fire. Value's a little high for my tastes online, but it's worth a try I think. Solo, it would tear through enemies if I could figure out what exactly was the deal with that looping.

fake edit:

I think it has something to do with being too close. When I backed up a tad, I didn't have the problem anymore. Only wish I had shot range on it, but eh, beggars versus choosers. Actually, I might have some spare weapons of those values, maybe I should check...

real edit:

Said GRP with Quick Charge 2, Slipshot 3, Energy Charge 4, Tirelessness 1 is really wrecking things in LVD, even if the value is high.

 

[kirbykid]

Join this chat here if you want to play kid icarus right now: http://mibbit.com/?channel=#theuprising&server=irc.mibbit.net

I made a calendar for coordinating team and player availability for Kid Icarus.

I have been looking for a way to get some consistent practice and matches in Kid Icarus.

It seems that organizing teams of 3 v 3 is not easy. So we have to do a bit of work ourselves.

If anyone knows of any tools that other communities are using for Kid Icarus, I'd love to hear about it. Otherwise, I have a google calendar that I've set up just for posting Kid Icarus availability throughout the week. It's public and if I share it with you, you'll be able to post on it freely. Just PM me with your gmail and I can add you to the calendar. Otherwise, you can simply email me or contact me some other way for me to update it for you. I'm fine either way.


I think a calendar set up would be ideal here. This way we wouldn't have to look through posts to see who's playing. Also calendar organizes all of the time zone stuff. Notice how I've already set up a time window for when my team will be ready to play.

 

[RespawningJesus]

That is an extremely good idea. Bravo, bravo, kirbykid!

 

[kirbykid]

That is an extremely good idea. Bravo, bravo, kirbykid!

Maybe we can move it to it's own thread soon.

 

[Life]

Smashboards should schedule a weekly time so we can get together for this.

Saturday nights sound good? Or isn't there other Lighthouse stuff going on then?

I could actually get on right now for a little bit...

 

[RespawningJesus]

It usually depends on the people. I **** the calendar approach better as it gives us a better idea of when people are available. Saturdays could work for most people some weeks, while it could be another day the next week.

As for giving this calander its own thread, I wouldn't see the point. Much easier to just mention it on the front page of this thread.

 

[kirbykid]

Smashboards should schedule a weekly time so we can get together for this.

Saturday nights sound good? Or isn't there other Lighthouse stuff going on then?

I could actually get on right now for a little bit...

If you want to suggest a time that you'll be online for playing I can put that on the calendar.

It usually depends on the people. I **** the calendar approach better as it gives us a better idea of when people are available. Saturdays could work for most people some weeks, while it could be another day the next week.

As for giving this calander its own thread, I wouldn't see the point. Much easier to just mention it on the front page of this thread.

Yeah, that's a better idea.

 

[DunnoBro]

Yea, it stacks.
Not bad, athough shot range would make it godly... but it's pretty good regardless.

Also, inherent damage output on reaper isn't too staple. Just getting weakening off quickly, preferably with homing boost and a good bit of range tears through most people even with low range.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Boo.

Yeah, I can confirm the stats of the Skyscraper as having the incredible +7 Overall DEF/+6 Health, as well as 1 Range Star, 1.5 Melee Stars, and +1 In Peril Auto-Dodge. I do own it after all. (And the funny thing is, it's actually a weapon that was sold at the store.)

So I thought I'd post my thoughts:

Offense power is better for combatting teams, defense power for handling duels. Offense power lets you take out opponents faster, allowing you to disrupt formations or disable counterattacks. Defense power, on the other hand, lets you survive lengthened abuse and allows you to draw individual players. I'll tell you that little bit of health that isn't lost can provide for a much needed extra hit. I do have offensive power on things like my preferred Ball Cannon (4.5 Range Stars, 2 Melee Stars, Overall DEF +7, Speed +1, Forward Dash Charge Shot +1), but they don't need prolonged skirmishes to actually hit foes.

Reflect Barrier seems to make Magnus Club users cry. If the Magnus Club sends a projectile and the RB bounces it off, the Magnus guy will eat it, especially if it's the backshot, which has a massive hitbox that ends up causing it to change ownership easily and catch the Magnus guy. Even better, if the Magnus tries to just melee, they risk attempting a projectile that will get bounced, a risk I know all too well. And the mere fact that they're using it makes it easier to save an/the RB charge for them too. Of course, it's a specific power for a specific weapon type, so finding other anti-Magnus methods is encouraged, I simply personally have RB on my club power set as it is. (Granted, I'd have to use it creatively, stationary defense isn't a bright idea for clubs. But I can't complain, good club projectiles need to be used creatively to begin with.)

Aries Armor is actually questionable on a high defense weapon unless it actually isn't vulnerable without powers. All it provides over Super Armor is a better defense boost and status resistance, when you generally survive long enough to begin with. On a weapon like my Skyscraper tank, that doesn't justify the extra cost at all for me. This in mind, it might be a good idea to mob Aries pests if you see them, and generally treat them like Iron Knuckles from Ocarina of Time (although considerably more mobile, but the basic working strategy is the same idea), since you can actually kill them and avoid being forced into easily read behavior, unlike some other powers I know that deserve a Time Out and/or a Power Down.

Triple Claws...those would pick off vulnerable people, as I learned the hard way in a recent LvD match where I didn't think to guard against those shenanigans. I was able to effortlessly munch any individual member of the opposing team, but it doesn't do any good when I disregard the possibility that my teammates can easily be free TLG damage.

Continuous fire becoming more useful? Hunh. After a few randoms trying that out, I think I ought to dump Homing Shot from my cannon power set. (Addendum: And whaddyaknow, after I do this and replace with Lightweight, I find a way to fit in Health Recovery, albeit at L1.) I won't dump Reflect Barrier from my club power set though, because clubs benefit from defilade especially when it is self-made. But clubs' lack of ability to attack more than ~5 meters away without charge shots or powers does mean that having to figure out the smash swings is guaranteed to be critical. How to make them hit those God forsaken Eyetracks seekers efficiently would be a start.

 

[Linkshot]

Played against Demoniac last night with a few of the new IRC crew. I can safely say that a counter to Eyetracks is Crusader. Unless the Eyetracks have a Shot Cancellation modifier, the backwards charge shot of Crusader will eat both and keep going. They charge at the same rate, too, so you can just tough it out until Slip Shot / Homing Boost dies off.

He was rushing me down and I just kept leisurely putting them up, snuck a Tempura Attack in the midst, he got close enough so I just Melee Combo'd him (powerful even at 1 star!), and needless to say, he became the angel.

I think Flame can attest that Crusader is an amazing support for Clubs for the exact same reasons you use Reflect Barrier. Crusader eats any and all shots while making it difficulty for melee to find an opening.

 

[Life]

ohai MKDH. Didn't see you there. >.>

Couple random nitpicks with that post. First, you do realize that it was discovered that Aries Armor doesn't stack with OD, right? That's why you're getting so little benefit from it. Try it on a club with more stars.

Second, maybe it's because I generally play more mobile weapons, but I find that Reflect Barrier is wasted on Magnus--not that it doesn't work, but Magnus Club shots are massively telegraphed, making them relatively easy to dodge and counterattack; the Reflect Barrier charges would be better used elsewhere IMO.

powerhouse, the power of high-homing weapons is that they're very difficult to not get hit by (duh) and they eat up all your dodges; I'd say the strength of GRP is not the weakening per se, but the process of applying weakening wears the opponent down so much that they become easy targets. (I've been getting a ton of kills with this thing, anyway, so whatever I'm doing is working LOL)

linkshot, after spawning as an angel with Crusader Blade, I'm inclined to agree, it's pretty cool. Watch that the Eyetracks doesn't just slipshot under your shots, though--it's what I'd try first.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Played against Demoniac last night with a few of the new IRC crew. I can safely say that a counter to Eyetracks is Crusader. Unless the Eyetracks have a Shot Cancellation modifier, the backwards charge shot of Crusader will eat both and keep going. They charge at the same rate, too, so you can just tough it out until Slip Shot / Homing Boost dies off.

He was rushing me down and I just kept leisurely putting them up, snuck a Tempura Attack in the midst, he got close enough so I just Melee Combo'd him (powerful even at 1 star!), and needless to say, he became the angel.

I think Flame can attest that Crusader is an amazing support for Clubs for the exact same reasons you use Reflect Barrier. Crusader eats any and all shots while making it difficulty for melee to find an opening.

Oh, I use Reflect Barrier for more reasons than Magnus Club busting. But I have only one charge for it on my set, so I'd have to use it wisely. Thankfully, my other powers have their definite uses.

Anyway, we'd have to remember to find some nice general counters. Aside from setups that ultimately get countered by the opponent making effective use of their own setup's strengths and covering its weaknesses. That's why I'm wanting to check out smash swings on clubs. Let's see what we know about the swings:
*Shoddy damage. Seriously, ~18 base when they're melee attacks? The weaker melee combo hit deals 34 base. (I'm basing off of the Ore Club's stats, by the way.)
*Smash swings are laggy. It makes them a PAIN to use, and if you use them when your projectile is charged, you will immediately afterward try to use the standing charge shot. (Good thing that has innate Slip Shot on every club.)
*The side smash swing hits around, starting from behind and then going 360 degrees, either clockwise if left is the input direction, or counterclockwise if right is the input direction. Forward and back smash swings simply swings the club forward.
*Swings do not affect the shot charge. This results in being able to melee attack for protection, as long as you are fine with not running when swinging.

I am suspecting they have Shot Cancellation worth talking about. But how much? And more importantly, how to use it?

 

[Linkshot]

*Smash swings are laggy. It makes them a PAIN to use, and if you use them when your projectile is charged, you will immediately afterward try to use the standing charge shot. (Good thing that has innate Slip Shot on every club.)

Atlas Club has no Slip Shot on Standing Charge Shot, not sure about Magnus.

The shot cancellation is fairly average, I find.

 

[Master Knight DH]

ohai MKDH. Didn't see you there. >.>

Couple random nitpicks with that post. First, you do realize that it was discovered that Aries Armor doesn't stack with OD, right? That's why you're getting so little benefit from it. Try it on a club with more stars.

Second, maybe it's because I generally play more mobile weapons, but I find that Reflect Barrier is wasted on Magnus--not that it doesn't work, but Magnus Club shots are massively telegraphed, making them relatively easy to dodge and counterattack; the Reflect Barrier charges would be better used elsewhere IMO.

powerhouse, the power of high-homing weapons is that they're very difficult to not get hit by (duh) and they eat up all your dodges; I'd say the strength of GRP is not the weakening per se, but the process of applying weakening wears the opponent down so much that they become easy targets. (I've been getting a ton of kills with this thing, anyway, so whatever I'm doing is working LOL)

linkshot, after spawning as an angel with Crusader Blade, I'm inclined to agree, it's pretty cool. Watch that the Eyetracks doesn't just slipshot under your shots, though--it's what I'd try first.

Aries does in fact stack. It has the problem of cutting damage by a percentage, so it would naturally be weaker for people who have defense. But the problem I find fatal for it is the inherent lack of additional useful benefit for 5 more spaces, which is actually the approximate average amount of room for each power I have on my sets. I'd rather have an extra power than extra defense power that can easily be rendered useless.

Reflect-on-Magnus does have the benefit of turning projectile Magnus setups into the opposing team's own worst enemy. And do keep in mind that I'm using a setup that provides me with only one RB charge, so I'd already have to look for a good use for it.

 

[DunnoBro]

According to the discovery, aries does not stack. It just overrides your OD because it naturally decreases damage by more. That's not stacking, that's just replacing with something mildly better.

I have a bunch of od+8 and health +6 weapons too. Range only, though. Gonna try to make some aurum orbitars out of some as I suspect they can 2HKO with only 4 stars. (the max i can have under 300 value)

 

[Master Knight DH]

According to the discovery, aries does not stack. It just overrides your OD because it naturally decreases damage by more. That's not stacking, that's just replacing with something mildly better.

I have a bunch of od+8 and health +6 weapons too. Range only, though. Gonna try to make some aurum orbitars out of some as I suspect they can 2HKO with only 4 stars. (the max i can have under 300 value)

The report of overriding was second hand info of a Chinese site that turned out to have been confused. I saw the topic, and The Pup responded with more conclusive tests.

 

[Life]

Remember that club SCF reflects shots. It may be possible for a perfectly-timed swing to reflect Eyetracks or similar slow-moving charged shots. I don't know about club DCF swings though.

I'm not a huge fan of Aries Armor anyway, so meh.

 

[DunnoBro]

I think that only applies to solo, as I only cancel shots with my clubs, never reflect except in solo.
Also, even if it could reflect eyetracks, it wouldn't be much better than cancelling as they lose their homing, and slip shot when reflected. So you're not likely to hit them anyway.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Good heavens, so many people who don't believe in Super Armor. Now for dodging weapons, that's fine, but when I have SA or Counter active, I'm generally able to take hits without losing ANY momentum, where the opponents can't unless they themselves do. Why can't they keep that in mind? It makes the game's handling of superarmor being a happy medium so bittersweet, because I'm now the one on the bullying end of KB abusing. I do find it as karma for the "don't get hit" guys but this is just extreme. And it's easy to believe SA as a Game Breaker, but I see too many claw users freaking melee combo rush me, which is begging to become Counter fodder, so I can't rule out idiocy on opponents' part, not that I'd want to.

Still, I think the game could have stood to do things like view-mark anybody under SA or Counter. There are some opponents, like SolidxGeo on GameFAQs, who thankfully do provide a good, balanced fight without needing sadistic combinations, but in general, it gets tiring to see people not realize that SA could be useful enough that I've been using it as a staple power from day 1. I'm pretty sure that SA is just drastic, not broken.

I mean, okay, sure, I was thinking about this when trying out defense boosted cannons with my new cannon power set, but dueling is a vital part of good strategy. Sakurai and his team should have encouraged it better with ways to punish mob tactics, and avoided too much reward for kiting while actually handling OTHER power busting methods (anti-focus and anti-armor) better.

Meanwhile, I try out a 100 Value Ball Cannon and become a useless teammate that results in my team losing despite having a 147 Value teammate. I try out a 160-something Value Ball Cannon and oh look, the one time I die makes me become Pit. I definitely see nothing wrong there.

 

[Life]

I am confused.

BTW, yesterday I went into a room with my old 100-value First Blade (I now have two, LOL) and no powers and I still managed to go 2-1. Don't you just love anecdotes?

 

[Master Knight DH]

When I get hit, I typically have Super Armor active, so I take only damage, not exactly worth caring about unless it's strong enough to threaten to kill me or leave me severely softened up. The reason I proc SA is to avoid being KBed if I get hit, because it's still unconditional when I don't have a power active, and I am not exactly a fan of unconditional KB because it's free attacks for the opponent, which inevitably gives speedsters a blatant advantage. It really hurt when I tried out the Fireworks Cannon at the Game Developer's Conference 2012 at the Moscone Center, as a claw user kept harassing me and I couldn't do anything about it as SA wasn't available on the set, and maybe because I didn't know about the backshot.

Now if it's an Orbitars user who goes flying when hit, that's fine, they should be dodging. But when I see people who can't dodge either because of the weapon itself or the matchup go flying so often, that's when I need to facepalm. I use Super Armor and/or Counter to begin with so I generally suffer less than the opponent upon getting hit. You can argue that anybody who doesn't catch onto that is deserving of defeat, and maybe they are, but I'd rather have my freaking duels where I simply don't get pushed around for having a club or cannon (weapon types that can in fact be considered to combat that very problem), rather than have a blatant advantage over people because SA/Counter turns out to be rather drastic.

And that's not even getting into it being the most likely cause for the bad stigma for clubs and cannons. Here's what I'm guessing what happens: as most users of clubs/cannons don't use SA, etc., they get KBed when claw users get close. This feeds the logic that claw users should indeed melee combo like crazy. This is, of course, easily turned into a fatal mistake. They try it, I'll just proc Counter, take hits intentionally, and then they can't guard against the resulting instant projectile. Oh, and guess what? I'll likely have high defense that will not only prevent them from killing me before I get the projectile out, but make it harder for them to even outpace my own net attack. Melee comboing isn't even brilliant against heavy weapons. You're freaking standing in place when the point of claws is to hit-and-run, the very thing you are NOT DOING WHEN DOING THE COMBO.

Good heavens. Yeah, sorry about that. It just gets tiresome when players don't even consider basic things.

 

[---]

Just got the Virus power, only two more before I get all the powers. BD

 

[Master Knight DH]

Just don't be surprised if getting the remaining powers gets as bad as with the freaking stickers in Brawl.

Oh yeah, here's something I recommend for a control scheme: use ABXY for power management and let your right pinky go from there. And yes, it even works if you're a lefty, take it from somebody who is. Needless to say, all that Battalion Wars is going to really pay off.

 

[Sully]

I got all the powers, the last one for me was Spin Attack. It took forever and I had to play multiplayer a ton of times. I kept getting Mega Lasers and random/random effects

 

[Life]

I used to use Counter alongside Bumblebee back in my Insight Staff days before I got Warp and whatnot. Teleport at a 90 degree angle and instantly charged shot the opponent? Don't mind if I do. (Yes, it works that way. Pretty cool eh?) I make a point out of punishing claws for comboing by either sniping them (if far away) or by circle dodging when they get close (as, much like Magnus shots, it's really obvious when they're going to combo). Most claws seem to have caught on by now that if you start a combo and miss, you don't keep comboing, but now and then I'm fast enough to land a combo back on them. (Granted, that means a total of nine damage when I'm on Flintlock, but the point is the knockback so I can get a little distance on them.)

I wouldn't say that all claws are hit-and-run though. Brawlers certainly are, probably Raptors are good for it too, but for something like Hedgehog Claws, that's not as desirable.

I'm half tempted to pick up Clubs now, because I have... different theories I'd like to try. Remember back on day one when clubs were supposedly OP? People eventually learned that their shots are easy to see coming. The strength of clubs rests on their ability to punish people who aren't aware of their surroundings. That's why so many have natural slipshot--when you have giant boulders or whatever coming out from the walls, you have to pay attention to more things than just the guy you're fighting. It's what I call "surprise damage"--the idea that you can't dodge an attack you can't see coming. So why not abuse this? Invisible Shots. Transparency. Between those two effects alone you become a factory of surprise damage. It's why Slipshot is so good. Throw in a Homing Boost to help accuracy if you want. Energy Charge or Quick Charge if you have to.

Then again, it occurs to me that, in a sense, MKDH, you're already doing that--Counter isn't particularly common, so most people don't expect to take damage from it (if you know your opponent has it, it's much less effective). Super Armor is "surprise not-damage" (because you took less damage than the opponent expected to deal), protects from surprise damage while up, and enables surprise damage (because who expects to get hit by the guy you should have just knocked down?). Reflect Barrier serves the same purposes. OHKO weapons are good because you can't react to being hit by one--so you compensated by buffing your defenses.

I would just need a good club first, LOL.

And I'm only missing Virus... ugh.

 

[Linkshot]

Tip

"Collect every power" is not every type, it's every level, too.

I set R to Activate Power and it rocks.

 

[RespawningJesus]

If you want a good club for starters, black club is an excellent choice.

Also, I should really consider using the r button for power activation instead of B. Either that, or use R for switching views. Center camera on R is so stupid, as I never use it.

 

[Master Knight DH]

I used to use Counter alongside Bumblebee back in my Insight Staff days before I got Warp and whatnot. Teleport at a 90 degree angle and instantly charged shot the opponent? Don't mind if I do. (Yes, it works that way. Pretty cool eh?) I make a point out of punishing claws for comboing by either sniping them (if far away) or by circle dodging when they get close (as, much like Magnus shots, it's really obvious when they're going to combo). Most claws seem to have caught on by now that if you start a combo and miss, you don't keep comboing, but now and then I'm fast enough to land a combo back on them. (Granted, that means a total of nine damage when I'm on Flintlock, but the point is the knockback so I can get a little distance on them.)

I wouldn't say that all claws are hit-and-run though. Brawlers certainly are, probably Raptors are good for it too, but for something like Hedgehog Claws, that's not as desirable.

I'm half tempted to pick up Clubs now, because I have... different theories I'd like to try. Remember back on day one when clubs were supposedly OP? People eventually learned that their shots are easy to see coming. The strength of clubs rests on their ability to punish people who aren't aware of their surroundings. That's why so many have natural slipshot--when you have giant boulders or whatever coming out from the walls, you have to pay attention to more things than just the guy you're fighting. It's what I call "surprise damage"--the idea that you can't dodge an attack you can't see coming. So why not abuse this? Invisible Shots. Transparency. Between those two effects alone you become a factory of surprise damage. It's why Slipshot is so good. Throw in a Homing Boost to help accuracy if you want. Energy Charge or Quick Charge if you have to.

Then again, it occurs to me that, in a sense, MKDH, you're already doing that--Counter isn't particularly common, so most people don't expect to take damage from it (if you know your opponent has it, it's much less effective). Super Armor is "surprise not-damage" (because you took less damage than the opponent expected to deal), protects from surprise damage while up, and enables surprise damage (because who expects to get hit by the guy you should have just knocked down?). Reflect Barrier serves the same purposes. OHKO weapons are good because you can't react to being hit by one--so you compensated by buffing your defenses.

I would just need a good club first, LOL.

And I'm only missing Virus... ugh.

Well, Virus provides a beacon that causes Paralysis and Weaken to any opponents near enough it without fail, though it only lasts as long as the opponent is near the beacon. If you're aware that the cost is 6+2L spaces for only 1L charges, you can use it as an anti-melee tool.

And hey. Whatever works for stopping claws from simply trying to melee combo. That gets annoying fast.

That club combination would be more appropriate as team support. Especially if you're going to use Energy Charge on weapons as heavy as clubs. It's going to have to play hide-and-seek in case an opponent tries to harass.

For the record, I use Super Armor and Counter as simple momentum protection. I'm not too concerned about dealing surprise damage, so much as putting the opponent under pressure since anything that leaves them open needs to deal sufficient damage to properly discourage or flatly stop any attack I try. Counter's instant charge shot is also useful for free damage, although it has to be used wisely to avoid being punished, hence why it costs only 3+1L spaces for 1+1L charges, as opposed to Super Armor's 4+2L spaces for 1L charges.

Reflect Barrier, I have only one charge on my set. But here are the uses I can think up for it:
*One free pass through an open area
*Safety for one Health Recovery charge
*Teammate support (though don't expect me to use it with that in mind)
*Cornering abuse (there are people who already do this with RB)
*Chokepoint control
*Confusing opponents' melee skirmishing ability (if it works on me, it should work on opponents)
*Punishing fast charge shots (though I'd probably have to act out a wild west movie about it)

At least 7 good uses, only 1 charge. Decisions, decisions. Still, it is useful.

 

[Life]

Yeah, the more I look into the different club types the more I think I'm looking for Black Club.

Ideally, I want something like:

X ranged stars
standing charged shot
shot range
shot homing
(maybe negative MDA?)

since the plan was to rely on standing charge shot's natural slipshot along with invisible shots and transparency to hit people out of nowhere--and black club seems to have the best standing charged shot for that purpose. I wish it had more homing, but oh well.

I'm also writing a Light Versus Dark fanfic, so I do need to play with the various weapon types more to get a feel for things. (I need to collect as many strategies as possible, BTW. Ideas are welcome, although I already have quite a few )

 

[Master Knight DH]

Black Club is susceptible to kiting, moreso than the Skyscraper Club. So do watch out for that. But I'll tell you the modded attack power perecentage needed for 20m 1HKing assuming no Shot Range mods:

*Neutral: ~462%
*Forward: ~322%
*Side: ~342%
*Back: doesn't reach, ~600% with end of lifespan hit but can hit multiple times

Addendum: And meanwhile, I tried out the Halo Club. Turns out it just has to work as a wear down sniper. 2 second recharge and 60 meters per second on projectiles with decent size is pretty good for silencing vulnerable targets. From what I gather from this, Shot DEF, Health, and Running Speed would be optimal for it. Range Stars are also worth considering if you aren't worried by Reflect Barrier.

Fanfic, huh? Might be worth a read.

 

[Linkshot]

I use Virus on my espionage Upperdash set to pin everybody down once I sneak in. Since Weakening cuts max health in half (confirm?) even the sourspot on my Melee Dash will kill them at that point.