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Keeping it Classy: A Zelda guide
- Thread starter S2
- Start date
S2
Smash Lord
Facet if you want to know, Tsuteto has a way of using Farore's to basically destroy any hopes of playing defensively.
I don't know how well that Farore's abuse works on certain aggressive characters, but man, it through me in a loop because I'd never seen someone use it that well before.
Then again, Tsuteto, you were very smart about it. It wasn't simply choosing to teleport punish or fakeout teleports straight down. It was teleporting with specific spacing and either smashing out of the teleport, or hoping I'd think he was trying to farore's punish... but instead he was spacing himself to punish my counter-attack.
Good mindgames were involved.
I'd love to know if you normally play against aggressive opponents (Marth/MK/etc) with those tactics, or simply if you use them as strategies against campers. Like I said, I've been thinking about what you do differently than me strategically... so I can take what was working on me and add it into my own strats.
That and I have to work on better sweet spotting. Seriously, Tsuteto, you're a little too good at seeing sweetspot opportunities.
I don't know how well that Farore's abuse works on certain aggressive characters, but man, it through me in a loop because I'd never seen someone use it that well before.
Then again, Tsuteto, you were very smart about it. It wasn't simply choosing to teleport punish or fakeout teleports straight down. It was teleporting with specific spacing and either smashing out of the teleport, or hoping I'd think he was trying to farore's punish... but instead he was spacing himself to punish my counter-attack.
Good mindgames were involved.
I'd love to know if you normally play against aggressive opponents (Marth/MK/etc) with those tactics, or simply if you use them as strategies against campers. Like I said, I've been thinking about what you do differently than me strategically... so I can take what was working on me and add it into my own strats.
That and I have to work on better sweet spotting. Seriously, Tsuteto, you're a little too good at seeing sweetspot opportunities.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
(And jewed over is another saying of "screwed over", just using jewed instead of screwed. I mean no offense to any jews. It's one of the common phrases me and my friends use. Like sometimes we say, when something goes bad, "that's so mexican." But we mean no offense to mexicans either. Hell, mexicans are far nicer than americans. Americans suck in the nice department. Accidentally scratched someone's car with mine on the road, we both pulled over, looked at it, I'm all "****, sorry sorry sorry" and they're all "nah, it's fine, enjoy your day" and that was that. Mexican families ****ing rock.) idk why this is not in a quote box i quoted this from tsuteto
Yea thats what i thought it ment. I did not take offense b/c last year i roomed with a kid from indiana and he told me about that saying or one like it(don't remember what he said exactly) but there are many who don't know it i dont think it is used in NY and i doubt CAL so i am fine with it but i feel there will be some that might get upset by it so be careful
Also what mission are you going off of army? whatever it might be good luck
Yea thats what i thought it ment. I did not take offense b/c last year i roomed with a kid from indiana and he told me about that saying or one like it(don't remember what he said exactly) but there are many who don't know it i dont think it is used in NY and i doubt CAL so i am fine with it but i feel there will be some that might get upset by it so be careful
Also what mission are you going off of army? whatever it might be good luck
I see. Good to know, since many of my usual opponents play defensively
Just to check that I understand, the three main branches are: 1) Teleport aiming to damage with the reappearance
2) Teleport aiming to land with proper spacing for a particular attack
3) Teleport fake, straight down
@S2: I haven't had any good chances yet. I'm still experimenting, so I didn't want to throw those chances away. And yet I go ahead and pick a different character for the hell of it, one that the guy I KNOW has played tons of times against.... Should've done ROB XD
But as for my typical playing people, skilled wise it's Sonic, Falco, Ike, and Wolf, sometimes a Marth if we play over wifi but I haven't played the guy in realtime. Sonic is probably the most troubling of them all, Wolf I can keep even with (that guy has a different Wolf compared to most), Ike is meh, and Falco I still really don't know about. But I do need to incorporate that strategy now. I think it's ready for unveiling ^^
And thanks for the sweet spot compliment. I mained Marth in Melee, so I pretty well knew the range for tipping, and I'm all about the whole precision thing. If you ever played a game called GunZ, and ever used revs there, then you would know about precision. Same thing with the likes of DDR and GH (GH throws me off way bad, I can't sync it for whatever reason).
@NAGACE: Yeah, I know. I live in Utah, which is a far forgiving community. I'm pretty good about the whole "watching what you say" though, mormon and all. I curse, yeah, but I know that others don't like it so I watch it around them, and am pretty **** good about it.
And the mission is for the church. I wouldn't be surprised if you've seen two guys in suits walking along the sides, maybe even stopped by your house at one point in time or another, with the tags that say "Elder ______" and a whole phrase of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." Then again, the same goes vice versa, I wouldn't be surprised either. It's all hit and miss ^^
But as for my typical playing people, skilled wise it's Sonic, Falco, Ike, and Wolf, sometimes a Marth if we play over wifi but I haven't played the guy in realtime. Sonic is probably the most troubling of them all, Wolf I can keep even with (that guy has a different Wolf compared to most), Ike is meh, and Falco I still really don't know about. But I do need to incorporate that strategy now. I think it's ready for unveiling ^^
And thanks for the sweet spot compliment. I mained Marth in Melee, so I pretty well knew the range for tipping, and I'm all about the whole precision thing. If you ever played a game called GunZ, and ever used revs there, then you would know about precision. Same thing with the likes of DDR and GH (GH throws me off way bad, I can't sync it for whatever reason).
@NAGACE: Yeah, I know. I live in Utah, which is a far forgiving community. I'm pretty good about the whole "watching what you say" though, mormon and all. I curse, yeah, but I know that others don't like it so I watch it around them, and am pretty **** good about it.
And the mission is for the church. I wouldn't be surprised if you've seen two guys in suits walking along the sides, maybe even stopped by your house at one point in time or another, with the tags that say "Elder ______" and a whole phrase of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." Then again, the same goes vice versa, I wouldn't be surprised either. It's all hit and miss ^^
That's... some of them ^^'I see. Good to know, since many of my usual opponents play defensively
1) Teleport aiming to damage with the reappearance
2) Teleport aiming to land with proper spacing for a particular attack
3) Teleport fake, straight down
Yeah, too lazy to edit, so I'm double posting, blah.
S2
Smash Lord
@ Facet
Yes, but remember that it also is about choosing between teleporting and doing something, or teleporting and then deciding how you think the opponent is going to counter... so you set up yourself to counter your opponent's counter to your teleport.
Let me give an example. Tsu would punish my downdodge into d-smash as a teleport counter, by teleporting somewhat close to me (but out of range) and then shieldgrabing me as my move was ending.
Of course, this worked because Tsu was really switching up teleport tactics and I was unable to read what each teleport was going to lead to.
Then again, Tsuteto probably knows better how to break it down strategically . As this is me analyzing after being beaten by a strat. I suckered for quite a bit of teleport nonsense.
Yes, but remember that it also is about choosing between teleporting and doing something, or teleporting and then deciding how you think the opponent is going to counter... so you set up yourself to counter your opponent's counter to your teleport.
Let me give an example. Tsu would punish my downdodge into d-smash as a teleport counter, by teleporting somewhat close to me (but out of range) and then shieldgrabing me as my move was ending.
Of course, this worked because Tsu was really switching up teleport tactics and I was unable to read what each teleport was going to lead to.
Then again, Tsuteto probably knows better how to break it down strategically . As this is me analyzing after being beaten by a strat. I suckered for quite a bit of teleport nonsense.
Getting the exact angle is sometimes hard, especially the inbetween angles, but if you can master at least the bottom half, you'll be good to go.
And no, I didn't shield grab, just grabbed XD
Maybe I'll break it down a bit later, but right now, you'll just have to observe and guess. Observe and guess.
And no, I didn't shield grab, just grabbed XD
Maybe I'll break it down a bit later, but right now, you'll just have to observe and guess. Observe and guess.
Triforce_Chauzu
Smash Apprentice
About Sonic... Am I the only one who always change to Sheik when facing him? So disturbing guy... >.<
E/w, now I feel a real urge to face Tsuteto in the coming days. Sounds awesome, everything. Even though it's hard to understand the greatness without experiencing it, I guess.
E/w, now I feel a real urge to face Tsuteto in the coming days. Sounds awesome, everything. Even though it's hard to understand the greatness without experiencing it, I guess.
S2
Smash Lord
Yeah, I don't know why I said shield grab. I was thinking of pressing shield and grabbing out as you dash to get extra length (that's what I think you were doing based on the speed of your grabs, maybe they were just regular grabs).
Shield grab obviously means something very different.
Shield grab obviously means something very different.
Wait, there's an extra (albeit probably minor) boost with a shield grab? Because if there is, maybe I will start forcing my fingers to do that. Right now I'm afraid that my hand will reject the idea, let go of the controller, slap me, and say, "Don't you dare do that again."
S2
Smash Lord
Sorry for any confusion.
The technique I was talking about was the dashing shield grab. Where you press shield in a run and then immediately press A to grab. You still maintain some of your run's momentum and you get a standing shield grab. Basically it makes your grab range slightly bigger.
Obviously, this has a different implied meaning then just "shield grab", so yeah, sorry for the confusion.
I just assumed you were using it. I'm even more impressed if you weren't. Since your timing was really good.
The technique I was talking about was the dashing shield grab. Where you press shield in a run and then immediately press A to grab. You still maintain some of your run's momentum and you get a standing shield grab. Basically it makes your grab range slightly bigger.
Obviously, this has a different implied meaning then just "shield grab", so yeah, sorry for the confusion.
I just assumed you were using it. I'm even more impressed if you weren't. Since your timing was really good.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
I was thinking it might of been a religous mission. also i have heard of people from churchs walking around to peoples houses but it does not really happen in my town I think we have laws against it or something. and don't worry about what you said i really didn't take offence. in diffrent areas we all have diffrent saying and i am pretty sure (not positive) utah is lacking in its jewish population. In my town which is mostly jewish we have a term for rich annoying people which is ***'s which stands for jewish american prince/princess at indiana i said this to someone and they were confused by what i ment and thought I was against japanese people. If you were wondering by the way yes i am a jew. whats funny is that in a town which has to be 80% or higher jewish almost all my friends are christans of some sort.
Now for something zelda realated so this post has a point to this thread
1: how do u teleport without being punished by the lag at the end of it. is it just useful when spaced right, or is it the speed of your opponent or both?
2: when fighting Lucas do most people find it better to switch to shiek b/c i was having trouble against one online (the lag did not help)after a couple of tuff fights i changed to marth and two stocked him but i was just wondering if i was in a tounry were it counts and i don't want to risk losing a fight would it be better to play as sheik (if it is i better start training my shiek)
3: I am not sure if it was mentioned in this thread(and i don't feel like looking for it to check if it was) but if you are standing in the right spot of a stage and teleport to the edge you will be able to use an air attack right after the teleport then you will fall off the stage but you will of gotten your jump back its risky and hard to nail your opponent but might be a good mind game if used right
Now for something zelda realated so this post has a point to this thread
1: how do u teleport without being punished by the lag at the end of it. is it just useful when spaced right, or is it the speed of your opponent or both?
2: when fighting Lucas do most people find it better to switch to shiek b/c i was having trouble against one online (the lag did not help)after a couple of tuff fights i changed to marth and two stocked him but i was just wondering if i was in a tounry were it counts and i don't want to risk losing a fight would it be better to play as sheik (if it is i better start training my shiek)
3: I am not sure if it was mentioned in this thread(and i don't feel like looking for it to check if it was) but if you are standing in the right spot of a stage and teleport to the edge you will be able to use an air attack right after the teleport then you will fall off the stage but you will of gotten your jump back its risky and hard to nail your opponent but might be a good mind game if used right
To answer your third one with a simple situation, let's say someone is hanging on the edge. You can teleport, hit that mark and fall of the side, and, literally, immediately kick them, most likely sweetspotting them, jump up, grab the edge.
Luthien
Smash Ace
It's all about mindgames. Period. If you think they're gonna shield, either teleport in front of them just out of counter-attacking range, or stay where you are to play it safe. Know what you're opponent is going to do before you try to teleport into them.
If you want to know an example of when it is safe to attack with Farore's, play a Zelda ditto match. Wait for your opponent to use Din's. Don't approach them when they do, just space yourself so that you're a teleport's distance away from them (while avoiding Din's, of course). Depending on the Zelda, chances are that your opponent is going to try to use Din's again. When you see them try to cast it, teleport towards them. You'll hit them before they can hit you or cancel their attack.
But yeah, naturally spacing and knowing your enemy is important. Know what your opponent can do and base what you do on that.
You're talking about ledgewarping/ledgestealing. Check the FW section of this guide, it's in here. It has a summarised version of what you need to know there, and a link to the wall o' text that is my guide if you want to get more detail.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
ah so its suppose to be used when they are hanging on the edge ok that does sound good.
I think i am to worried about killing myself to try it in a importent match but maybe if i practice it enough i will start to use it.
xNinjaOfChaosx
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2008
- Messages
- 20
This thread taught me a lot about Zelda. Thank you very much for creating this thread. Maybe you could expand the Naryu's Love section to include things that it can reflect that isn't common knowledge (ie. Pikachu's Thunder)?
S2
Smash Lord
Yeah, I'll add the Pikachu's thunder. To be honest, I didn't even know about that. It didn't count as a projectile in Melee as far as I know.
Aeyr
Smash Apprentice
Well I guess I'll add my videos in too o.o
Not the best quality of videos and granted I still need to improve >_<
Most of these are Zelda vs. Olimar though there is one Zelda vs. Peach in my list at the moment.
http://youtube.com/user/AeyrWulff
Not the best quality of videos and granted I still need to improve >_<
Most of these are Zelda vs. Olimar though there is one Zelda vs. Peach in my list at the moment.
http://youtube.com/user/AeyrWulff
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
ok so i did some of the priority testing on mk twister agaisnt zelda and here are my findings
note: i can't tell frame for frame when a move starts beating out the twister and i might test this more later to get it better but this is what i've seen so far.
lets start with zelda's f-smash: this does beat the tornado every time or at the very least you might take a little dmg but so will the mk and it will stop his move. The problem is the starting lag on this move is just slow enough that unless you see the tornado coming from a distance which a good mk probably wont do or if you are in the middle of this move when the mk first starts his tornado you will probably be hit b4 you can get the move off making it risky but if you feel you can do it it is the best move to break throught the tornado.
Naryu's love: this move can also stop the tornado but just like the f-smash it wont work at the very begining of this move but thats only at the very begining so if you only have a moment to try to stop the tornado this is the move to try. More often then not you will trade a little (very little) dmg with the mk but it is worth it not to be caught in the tornado. so i recommend this move against the tornado since it was the one i had most success with and the smasll amounts of dmg taken are nothing to worry about.
Nair: This does rip through the tornado and brings mk into your move but it is also the hardest to pull off since i am pretty sure (correct me if i am wrong here i might be) but i think it only works if the mk is more to your side so if he is below you you might be in trouble. Also just like the others you need to get best the very begining of the move for it to win out. So if a tornado is coming at you and you are in the air this is the move to go for if you are on the ground it is very risky and some big risk takers might try to use this but i would say this is best used when in the air and use the ground moves when on the ground to stop mk tornado.
This is what i've seen so far i know this is a little ruff but i hope it helps.
Here is a little extra just incase anyone needs it.
To beat mk drill rush zelda's f-smash works well and din's fire works on the back half of mk when he is in this move on the front of mk din's does nothing.
If any of this is hard to understand b/c i wrote something badly (it happens) i guess post your question and i will try to answer it.
note: i can't tell frame for frame when a move starts beating out the twister and i might test this more later to get it better but this is what i've seen so far.
lets start with zelda's f-smash: this does beat the tornado every time or at the very least you might take a little dmg but so will the mk and it will stop his move. The problem is the starting lag on this move is just slow enough that unless you see the tornado coming from a distance which a good mk probably wont do or if you are in the middle of this move when the mk first starts his tornado you will probably be hit b4 you can get the move off making it risky but if you feel you can do it it is the best move to break throught the tornado.
Naryu's love: this move can also stop the tornado but just like the f-smash it wont work at the very begining of this move but thats only at the very begining so if you only have a moment to try to stop the tornado this is the move to try. More often then not you will trade a little (very little) dmg with the mk but it is worth it not to be caught in the tornado. so i recommend this move against the tornado since it was the one i had most success with and the smasll amounts of dmg taken are nothing to worry about.
Nair: This does rip through the tornado and brings mk into your move but it is also the hardest to pull off since i am pretty sure (correct me if i am wrong here i might be) but i think it only works if the mk is more to your side so if he is below you you might be in trouble. Also just like the others you need to get best the very begining of the move for it to win out. So if a tornado is coming at you and you are in the air this is the move to go for if you are on the ground it is very risky and some big risk takers might try to use this but i would say this is best used when in the air and use the ground moves when on the ground to stop mk tornado.
This is what i've seen so far i know this is a little ruff but i hope it helps.
Here is a little extra just incase anyone needs it.
To beat mk drill rush zelda's f-smash works well and din's fire works on the back half of mk when he is in this move on the front of mk din's does nothing.
If any of this is hard to understand b/c i wrote something badly (it happens) i guess post your question and i will try to answer it.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
i have not tried usmash how well does it work?
i don't usually try it if he is coming at me on flat ground.
if there is some kind of angle, or if he is slightly airborn then usmash has priority
I use nair the most though..
if you can DI out of his tornado from the top, nair and you will at least cancel him out
also it's possible to fastfall into an nair, or nair into a fastfall (depending on your height)
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
i have one more question which way do you DI to get out of it? does it depend were you are when you are pulled in?
Also nayru's does work try testing it out with a friend b/c your problem with it might be that mk is hitting you 2 early for nayru's to work or to late i had a couple cases were at the end of the move the tornado got through it. But it seemed to me that nayru's was the most useful in stopping the move (i might be wrong i still need to do more testing it was kinda raw data but i thought it might help so i posted it)
Also nayru's does work try testing it out with a friend b/c your problem with it might be that mk is hitting you 2 early for nayru's to work or to late i had a couple cases were at the end of the move the tornado got through it. But it seemed to me that nayru's was the most useful in stopping the move (i might be wrong i still need to do more testing it was kinda raw data but i thought it might help so i posted it)
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
ok thanks
Also i do plan on doing more testing on the tornado vs zelda but i might not be able for a while but as soon as i do if i find more useful or more specific info i will post it unless someone else does so b4 i do my testing which would be fine as well
Also i do plan on doing more testing on the tornado vs zelda but i might not be able for a while but as soon as i do if i find more useful or more specific info i will post it unless someone else does so b4 i do my testing which would be fine as well
Oh Snap
Smash Ace
Can someone explain how Zelda is able to cast Din's Fire four times using Sonic's spring? Thanks.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
A guy on the mk boards did testing on the tornado and his testing was done better then mine so i will post his zelda findings here:
Nayru's love can only win if you get inside MK during the invincibility frames. N-air doesn't outprioritize the tornado, it can work like everyone's D-air where you use it above MK where he doesn't have a hitbox. The up-smash is really risky to use, and MK doesn't do neutral B above you too often.
F-smash I think can work, but it requires a very specific distance, otherwise you get hit.
Din's fire has worked every time I use it. Maybe the difference is if you activate the explosion outside or inside of the tornado.
(All credit goes to Rhyfelwyr who posted this and did the testing for it)
Nayru's love can only win if you get inside MK during the invincibility frames. N-air doesn't outprioritize the tornado, it can work like everyone's D-air where you use it above MK where he doesn't have a hitbox. The up-smash is really risky to use, and MK doesn't do neutral B above you too often.
F-smash I think can work, but it requires a very specific distance, otherwise you get hit.
Din's fire has worked every time I use it. Maybe the difference is if you activate the explosion outside or inside of the tornado.
(All credit goes to Rhyfelwyr who posted this and did the testing for it)
S2
Smash Lord
This is a guess, but since MK can be knocked out with a strong attack, a well spaced f-smash should work since the hitbox is off of Zelda's body.
That's assuming you hit with the maximum range of it.
That's assuming you hit with the maximum range of it.
I did some more testing, and there are some changes.
Nayru's Love doesn't work against the tornado. The tornado has more priority if you rapidly press the B button. If he only presses it once, or when he stops rapidly pressing B, then it will work.
The up-smash suffers the exact same case as Nayru's Love.
I found that Din's fire is like the tornado. The further away you release the spell, the bigger the explosion, and the greater the priority. Using Din's fire at about the range of a roll usually always works. You can make din's fire work from closer up by releasing the explosing above Metaknight.
As I've said plenty of times.. nayru's love has never worked for me.
I could see din's working, but it's too slow.
What kind of crappy MK gives you enough spacing with the tornado that you can throw a dins? lol.
The only things that have worked consistently for me are N-Air and just holding down shield.
If the MK guy couldn't test well enough with n-air, it's because he wasn't good enough w/ Zelda to pull it off.
I could see din's working, but it's too slow.
What kind of crappy MK gives you enough spacing with the tornado that you can throw a dins? lol.
The only things that have worked consistently for me are N-Air and just holding down shield.
If the MK guy couldn't test well enough with n-air, it's because he wasn't good enough w/ Zelda to pull it off.
Triforce_Chauzu
Smash Apprentice
Nair ftw!
I know this sounds weird but... Nair's probably my favourite move with Zelda. Dunno why, it's just awesome. I love the feeling when you break the tornado with it... Almost feels better than actually winning.
I know this sounds weird but... Nair's probably my favourite move with Zelda. Dunno why, it's just awesome. I love the feeling when you break the tornado with it... Almost feels better than actually winning.
S2
Smash Lord
Yeah, you'd be hard pressed to Din's a tornadoing Meta, because he's not going to start that move far away from you.
You could try jumping backwards and using Din's, if the spacing is right you maybe could get away with it.
OR you could hold down the block button and either punish/run away depending on if the Meta leaves himself open.
You could try jumping backwards and using Din's, if the spacing is right you maybe could get away with it.
OR you could hold down the block button and either punish/run away depending on if the Meta leaves himself open.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
i am not sure if this is mentioned or well known but just in case it is not very well known i will post this
you can use Nayru's love against snakes up-smash and it makes the missle go through you and can hit him.
you can use Nayru's love against snakes up-smash and it makes the missle go through you and can hit him.
S2
Smash Lord
Yeah, I actually was not aware of that either, even though logically it makes sense as a projectile.
I apologize everyone for the long period without updates. I moved about 2 hours South recently and I've spent a lot of time without Internet/at other people's PCs/Out of town/Moving. What's nice is that now I'm settled and using my own PC again, so do expect an update sometime soon.
Specifically, a small update to Nayru's talking about what N.A.G.A.C.E. is bringing up - specifically awkward projectiles that don't immediately seem like projectiles (things like Pika's down-b). As well as a section about AT's. Which ones work with Zelda and which ones don't. It'll answer for new players which universal ATs simply do nothing with Zelda (snake-boosting) and which ones are potentially beneficial. If any Zelda specific stuff ever get's found I'll add that too. But so far, ledgewarping is really the only real Zelda specific AT that's been found.
I apologize everyone for the long period without updates. I moved about 2 hours South recently and I've spent a lot of time without Internet/at other people's PCs/Out of town/Moving. What's nice is that now I'm settled and using my own PC again, so do expect an update sometime soon.
Specifically, a small update to Nayru's talking about what N.A.G.A.C.E. is bringing up - specifically awkward projectiles that don't immediately seem like projectiles (things like Pika's down-b). As well as a section about AT's. Which ones work with Zelda and which ones don't. It'll answer for new players which universal ATs simply do nothing with Zelda (snake-boosting) and which ones are potentially beneficial. If any Zelda specific stuff ever get's found I'll add that too. But so far, ledgewarping is really the only real Zelda specific AT that's been found.
S2
Smash Lord
LOL, I wish there were more Zelda specific ATs to.
But so far ledgestealing (I think that's what Luthien ended up deciding on, I always liked ledgewarping better) is the only true AT that's Zelda specific. Other than that it's just advanced strategy and tech skill.
There might be some other stuff out there, but who knows. The Zelda board is unfortunately small, so it's not like we have sheer numbers on our side for accidently running into something (as I've found many ATs are found by accident).
But so far ledgestealing (I think that's what Luthien ended up deciding on, I always liked ledgewarping better) is the only true AT that's Zelda specific. Other than that it's just advanced strategy and tech skill.
There might be some other stuff out there, but who knows. The Zelda board is unfortunately small, so it's not like we have sheer numbers on our side for accidently running into something (as I've found many ATs are found by accident).
MildlyTemperate
Smash Cadet
Best Zelda guide ever.