Keeping it Classy: A Zelda guide

[sFoster]

S2, for your general strategies you should add a section on juggling and edge guard

 

[S2]

KK

I still find juggling in Brawl difficult because a good opponent is going to airdodge, making true juggling difficult. You can trick an opponent into an airdodge and then hit them as they come out, or you can force an airdodge near the ground and hit them with the small frame gap where they can't dodge.

Anyways,

POST EDGE-GUARDING MECHANICS you guys like. Obviously Din's edge-guarding, as well as ledgestealing, and spiking are there. I'm probably missing some Zelda specific stuff. I'll look through the topic before typing the guide.

 

[sFoster]

While juggling, if an opponent goes too far to the side I will short hop n-air toward them, and if you time it right your landing can go immediately into an up-smash.

Only one of these two moves will actually hit, but they allow you to cover more airspace depending on what kind of DI you're up against.

Of course it's also helpful to short hop din's sometimes, and to short hop+u-air for a ko.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

I was wondering something...

Now, while training, I noticed that if I didn't jump while doing that reverse thing with B-sticking, I'd simply turn around in an instant while jumping. I got a little surprised since my intent was to Reverse Din, but instead I ended up sweetspotting him with my bair. So I was just wondering if this is common sense, something I should've known of? ^^

And also, could this be useful in any practical way with Zelda? I can understand that it can be really useful while using a character with different fair's and bair's, but that's not viable with Zelda. So are there any other uses than sweetspotting with the bair for Zelda? Feels sad that such a cool thing can't be used, that's my point...

Hope that everybody understood what I meant. o.O

Edit: After trying it out some more, I noticed that i automatically makes you short jump, or whatever it's called. Since I'm not 100% with that, I could use this for that.

Edit 2: Sorry, but I noticed another strange thing. ^^ (sorry if it's all known what I'm bringing up...)

While doing this reversed short jump or whatever it's called, I noticed that Nayru acts weird if you use it during it. Since I rotate to the other side, it should be natural that Nayru sends them were I'm looking. Like; I stand in the middle, opponent by a ledge. I do this reverse thing and then Nayru. Naturally, they should be sent to the middle, but instead the original trajectory ( or whatever ^^ ) withold and the opponent is sent flying out of the ledge. This naturally means that it's either less or more spin on the Nayru, I guess. Anybody who knows why this is? =)

 

[sFoster]

The auto-rar is something that is known about b-sticking, but it didn't mention it since it's not really zelda specific. If you want to do a b-move while dashing tap the jump button 1 frame before hand and you'll be able to excute your moves as normal.

The auto-rar turns your character in the opposite direction, so by using nayru's it happens after your character is flipped to the other side. I guess thats a pretty cool use for it, because the auto-rar isn't possible with a smash stick.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

Oh, so it's called auto-rar? Then I know.

My point with Nayru was that even if Zelda is flipped to the other side due to the auto-rar, Nayru still makes the opponent fly of in the original direction, and not where you are facing when you're doing it. Kinda weird, I guess. o.o

I've actually gotten into the (bad?) habit now of preforming this off of the edge lol.
Jump off the edge and then shoot backward to safety.. which got me killed quite a few times when I first practiced it.

It works amazing for edge guarding and throwing people off, but obviously if you jump off the edge and accidently go forward with din's you're in a tight spot lol. I don't think it's anything I would do in a serious money game, but I find it pretty reliable at this point and it's a lot of fun in normal games.

I've tried that as well... I'll probably use it over some Wi-Fi matches while edgeguarding for laughs.

But I don't think I'd have the confidence to use this regularly in real matches... ^^

 

[sFoster]

If they're only getting hit by the outside edges of the shardes it won't throw them aside.
Just gives a little damage and knocks them backward.

 

[PK-ow!]

** Edit:
Controller Usage:

That move I just described is possible to do without the c-stick. Just be holding forward and press B while in the air, then quickly tap the control stick backward. If you do it right zelda and the dins will both swing backward.

I tried using a gamecube controller, and I agree thats pretty difficult to use the c-stick and the b-button. You'd have to reassign the B to either L, R or Z.

WHA? To reverse the control stick needs you to do it... really fast.
I went into training mode and was messing around with Ness recently. I went to 1/2 speed trying to do the jumped horizontal PK Fire, and noticed that I could start an aerial and change direction if I was really fast.
But when I went to 1/1 time, I couldn't do it.

Anyway... I don't use the R button right now... maybe I should set it to B.
It sucks having to depress the button so far to get a B, though.

So if I have R as special, then what must C-stick be to change direction for Din's?

 

[sniperworm]

Hey guys, it's good to see this guide is thriving. I haven't visited this thread in a while, so this goes back quite a bit.

Anyway, in post #32 I noticed that Crazy Hobo mentioned that the b-air is stronger than the f-air. While I know Luthien followed by saying that they have the same knockback, I was in training finding approximate kill percentages for Zelda and I noticed that the b-air seemed to kill at a lower percentage...

(vs. Mario, FD (center of stage), no DI (opponent set to control), finding lowest kill % (at any lower percent, Mario failed to die horizontally))

B-air killed at 66% and F-air killed at 71%. I've tried it a few times and it seems consistant. So I'd have to say that the b-air does have more horizontal knockback than the f-air (be good if someone could confirm/disprove this).

Anyway, keep up the good work.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

So if I have R as special, then what must C-stick be to change direction for Din's?

Well, I haven't tried this myself, but from what Foster's said, you can have it as smash if you like. It seems to be about the timing.

 

[S2]

Hey guys, it's good to see this guide is thriving. I haven't visited this thread in a while, so this goes back quite a bit.

Anyway, in post #32 I noticed that Crazy Hobo mentioned that the b-air is stronger than the f-air. While I know Luthien followed by saying that they have the same knockback, I was in training finding approximate kill percentages for Zelda and I noticed that the b-air seemed to kill at a lower percentage...

(vs. Mario, FD (center of stage), no DI (opponent set to control), finding lowest kill % (at any lower percent, Mario failed to die horizontally))

B-air killed at 66% and F-air killed at 71%. I've tried it a few times and it seems consistant. So I'd have to say that the b-air does have more horizontal knockback than the f-air (be good if someone could confirm/disprove this).

Anyway, keep up the good work.

Really? You're sure there was no knockback reduction?

I keep hearing conflicting reports, so I'm wondering which statement is true. I was under the impression they did equal knockback as well, but I never checked it personally. Not that a 5% difference is really all that crucial given the situational usage of the b/f-air.

 

[sFoster]

Anyway... I don't use the R button right now... maybe I should set it to B.
It sucks having to depress the button so far to get a B, though.

So if I have R as special, then what must C-stick be to change direction for Din's?

Run and jump forward, and keep holding forward.
Tap Back on the Smash(c)-stick and hit Special at the same time.

This should be possible for your hands with R set to special.
That will cause the dins to go forward, and zelda to reverse her momentum and go back in the direction she came.

 

[sniperworm]

I'm pretty sure there wasn't any knockback reduction. I did it in training mode (sorry, forgot to mention that, but I figured the whole "opponent set to control" thing implied it) and I'm almost certain that training mode doesn't suffer knockback reduction. I also exited and restarted the training mode match (to test specifically if there was knockback reduction), but I still failed to kill Mario with the first f-air at 70%.

So yeah, I'm almost 100% certain it's accurate (but I'd greatly appreciate it if someone with more of a reputation could confirm/disprove this).

Oh, and you're absolutely right, 5% doesn't really make a whole lot of difference (since most times people are guaranteed dead anyway). But then again, if you know you can hit with either, wouldn't it be nice if you knew for sure which one sent people farther? You never know, if they do have different knockback, knowing which one is stronger may win you a match one day.

 

[S2]

Thanks for the info then. I'll double check it tonight, then throw a line about it into the guide.

 

[S2]

****Read this***

So I'm going to add links to good matchup vids. Since watching vids of good matches is very helpful to improving your game.

At this point I'm looking for any good Zelda vids, regardless of whether it's you playing or not. As long as its skilled and something people can watch to improve.

Please post links as well as "Zelda vs. _____", as it'll help me keep track of them easier.


As I review vids I'll start adding them to a matchup video section at the end.

Please, if your going to send a combo vid, make sure it's awesome. I'm not going to post a ton of combo vids, as the purpose is to post matchups. But I might post a few exceptional ones.

 

[PK-ow!]

Run and jump forward, and keep holding forward.
Tap Back on the Smash(c)-stick and hit Special at the same time.

This should be possible for your hands with R set to special.
That will cause the dins to go forward, and zelda to reverse her momentum and go back in the direction she came.

Thank you.

So, onto recent news. . . if fair bair are graphically symmetric, but bair is strictly better than fair, and we can do a pivot aerial (/RAR). . . there's no reason to use fair at all, except when you're already in the air and it comes up.

Is it possible to use Nayru's Love to reverse direction? Narrow application, but, hey, options.

@S2: I'll keep an eye out. You know, some of the other character threads have games against Zelda. We could get those.

 

[Nakayorz]

I guess I'll start then.
Zelda vs Ice Climbers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUAe-3GPDJE
Granted it's a wifi match and my opponent is by no means Void calibur but it shows the nature of the matchup and methods of dealing with the 2v1 nature of the matchup

NakAttack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwICAG9wA8
my (combo highlights) video. First I'll say that it's not a pure zelda video but it showcases some useful setups, among them is the usmash/uair kill that we all know and love, and a couple farore's wind positioning setups for kicks. Also worth noting is the counter baiting and off stage uair kill setups off farore's and naryus. Other than that the rest is just frosting really.

http://www.youtube.com/darkmusician
you can find dark musician's awesome zelda vs toon link matchup vids at his youtube channel and you'll probably find the majority of the footage you need from there for a lot of other matchups as well.

Vs Ike:
http://www.youtube.com/Nakayorz
You've probably seen a lot of these by now with the big stink I made a couple weeks ago from being bitter towards the Ike forums (fyi I'm not going into that forum again so it'll never happen again lol) but it likely has footage you need for this particular matchup (for showing what to do or not to do whatever your better judgement says. At the very least they are for the most part pretty intense matches)

that's all I can think of off the top of my head for now.

 

[sFoster]

Is it possible to use Nayru's Love to reverse direction?

Direction - Yes
Momentum - No

The move that we just discussed in the last post is called a recoil special.
There is also the b reversal, jump and hold forward, press b, then quickly press back.

That shoots dins and zelda both in the opposite direction she was headed.
For Nayru's Love, there is somethign similar

Jump, press neutral b, and then quickly tap backwards.
She will spin and use nayru's to throw them backwards instead of forward.

This is useful for edge-recovery.. if you're hanging on the edge, jump, special, tap backwards and it will throw the guy trying to edge guard you off the cliff..

 

[Nakayorz]

Is it possible to use Nayru's Love to reverse direction? Narrow application, but, hey, options.

Yeah you can turn around with naryu's love in midair but you'd need some serious air time before you reach your opponent if you're going to try to back air them instead of front air.

 

[sFoster]

You've probably seen a lot of these by now with the big stink I made a couple weeks ago from being bitter towards the Ike forums (fyi I'm not going into that forum again so it'll never happen again lol)

I complained a lot about ike too in the past..
Then I found out the ike i've been competing against is the best one on gamefaqs.

Guess that explained some things for me, but I am slowly getting better against him.

 

[Nakayorz]

dont wanna dig this up again but my issue with the ike forums was more with their ignorance with handling the matchup (and their grammar)

 

[S2]

Yeah, Nayru's stops momentum, so there aren't a lot of reversal applications concerning your trajectory.

It is useful to B-reverse in order to throw your opponent in the opposite direction with Nayru's.

Yeah, keep vids coming. Sorry for the slow updates but I'm preparing to move and am trying to find a new job, so my life has been rather busy.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i am not sure if any of this was asked but i got two mk questions
1:what do i do when he is using the twister i think fsmash gets through it butthe twister is fast and hard to time the fsmash right is there any other way?

2:when i was hanging on the edge it seemed no matter what i did he could get me before i was able to recover if i rolled he smashed me. if i just stood up he ran and ether hit me or graped me and if i jumped he twistered me any ideas on what i should do against him?

 

[S2]

MK is a hard matchup. He's not necessarily a counter at this point, but his speed and attacks give Zelda trouble because its easy to mess up your spacing because you predicted him wrong.

For your questions

1.) I actually don't know what knocks him out of the twister offhand. Generally its any strong attack, so I'd assume the fsmash would get the job done. Make sure you start it up early so that you hit him with the farthest part of the attack. Zelda in general has problem against characters who can move in really quickly (Meta has some attacks like this, Snake's running A, etc). That's because if you start something like the Fsmash they will go right through it. That's because the attacks are off of her body, if they are too close they will probably take some minor damage, but won't be knocked out of the move, so you'll get hit too. The key is to hit them with the furthest spacing possible, since they can't make it through the entire hitbox. Meta in general is hard because his speed means you really have to know your timing and spacing. Even then, he's deceptively quicker than you'd think, which is awful if your Meta is doing false approaches and fakeouts.

With the twister, you could always just block and counter too. If your far enough you could Din's him.

2.) Mindgames, lol. Try a mix of things. If he's really close to the edge, get up with an attack. The get-up attack is fairly high priority in Brawl, so if he's really close it'll work. If he's hanging out at about rolling range, well don't roll. He's probably waiting to d-smash. Keep in mind if you jump up, you can airdodge or aerial. If you don't do it, remember that you can just quickly get up without an attack. Perfect if you think he's going to attack, you can just block it.

If you practice there are advanced get up options too. Press down and then immediatly jump with an f-air works when the opponent is at a certain distance, you can get sweetspots this way. Plus there is the ability to use B moves on the jump up (clarify, when you just press why for the regular jumping back onstage). Zelda will cancel the actual jumpup with either Din's or Nayru's (don't use Farore's against a good opponent here, they'll punish you).

My best advice is to watch his spacing and have variety in how you get up. If the Meta is picking up on a pattern that you do (and you might not even know your doing the same 1 or 2 things everytime) then he's going to continually try and punish that pattern. Which means you vary it up and punish him.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

About MK - I've noticed that the nair often breaks the tornado. I've tried all different attacks, but in my opinions, it works the best. You have to time it right though, and I don't know the exact proportions of it, but try it out for yourself if you please.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

thank you s2 and chauzu yea i tried to hit him with a fair of the edge but mk is so small. Also i will try that nair i hope that works. I tried air dodging but the twister is just to big and got me after my dodge was done. Also i dont think din's breaks through his twister it did not seem to for me. I did change up my pattern alot when i thought he was getting use to it and it did help a little but getting up still gave me trouble. Lastly you are saying if i press a jump button them bress forward b i will not jump high and get a din's off while landing on stage i will have to practice this it might help alot thanks.

and just some extra info it was a tourny match it went to 3 rounds and in the two he beat me in he was one hit away from dying as well he ended up coming in 4th i did pretty well i think i was in the top 8 i defiantly in the top couple skill wise (not bragging it was true) and i lost to a g&w in the losers bracket in two matches each one was very close their as well i played to scared of his bucket and thats what got me their my lack of dins i should of used it till he got 2 in his bucket o well next time i will know better.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

Also i will try that nair i hope that works.

Just don't try it out during an important match in a tourney or something. XD

As I said, I've managed to break MK's tornado with the nair a couple of times, but at least the same amount of times, it hasn't broken. I don't know why exactly... Probably timing. If I get the opportunity to do some research about it, I'll get back about it.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

yea i guess i will try to get one of my friends to help me testthe nair out. if i get to do this it might be in a while since they are not into smash as much as i am but if i get the testing done i will post my findings but my guess is you will get the testing done first. If i find anything diffrent we can compare data but like i said this might take a while for me.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

sorry for the double post
So i tried the jump of the edge to din's/naryu's and i have to say if i had used that i think i would of beaten that mk and now thinking back on it i think i read something about that a while back on the zelda board but forgot about it which is a shame. o well now i know and knowing is half the battle. The other half being the actual battle a much tuffer half

Thank you for the help next time i will use that new trick

 

[S2]

Hey everyone, expect the next update to be sometime this weekend or early next week. I'm moving, and its not local, so my ability to update has been hampered by a lack of time.

That being said, I'm giving a shout-out to Tsuteto. We played some furious Zelda mirror matches, sometimes very close but Tsu beat me up and took the win more times than I'd like to admit. If you get a chance, Tsu's a very good Zelda. You'll probably learn some new tactics from a few friendlies, I sure did

 

[Tsuteto]

Farore's Wind FTW?

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

Well Tsueto, you PM:ed me before about playing online sometime. ^^ I've already added you so we can play someday.

Looking forward to the update.

 

[Tsuteto]

Hopefully our connection will be fine. I've played with someone in New England that was practically like playing someone to SoCal, and player someone in Ontario, Canada that felt horrible XD

 

[S2]

Tsuteto, I'm already contemplating how to incorporate parts of your playstyle into mine.

Do you go to tournaments? Get some Zelda representation going in Utah tournaments, prove to the world that she rocks. I'm trying not to embarass myself in SoCal. I just placed third with Zelda in a Brawl tourney with about 50 people.

 

[Tsuteto]

Yeah, I do, but I keep getting jewed over. Proved that Zelda truly is a force to reckon with, that's for sure. First tourney, ranked 7th, next one, 9th. I think I could've beaten Sonic, but I went ahead and picked Meta for the hell of it XD

I've been playing too much wifi, so I'm too used to the timing there. I know the game is faster realtime, but I'm moving just a touch too fast, so I can pull off a hyphen smash half the time when I want to. Wifi is only good for tactics, that's for sure. If they were doing Brawl Singles next tournament, I'd put my heart and soul into that one because I leave for my mission in June, so I won't be able to really play for two years. Man will the game have changed by then....

But I do know I at least have the best Zelda between Colorado and Utah ^^

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

first Tsuteto what does jewed over mean? i am unfamiliar with that expression

Do ether you or S2 have a way to record your fights and post them so i and others can see if there is something we would like to add to are zelda game?

 

[S2]

Yeah, I do, but I keep getting jewed over. Proved that Zelda truly is a force to reckon with, that's for sure. First tourney, ranked 7th, next one, 9th. I think I could've beaten Sonic, but I went ahead and picked Meta for the hell of it XD

Dude I kinda know the feeling of picking another character just because. I did that at my last tournament, because I was facing a very good G&W player in the winner's bracket finals. So I opted out and played my secondary (Olimar) because I'd just gotten out of a troublesome Lucas battle just before, even though I'd been playing Zelda every match up until then.

Needless, I should have just stuck with Zelda despite the bad matchup, because my opponent later admitted that his experience playing Zelda was limited. I'm good with Olimar, but not as good as dedicated Olimar player would be. I ended up taking third because I lost the loser's bracket finals (to a friend who has experience against my Zelda is just a tiny bit better, it came down to the last life of the third round, he won).


It's hard to decide when its smart to switch to a secondary character or simply stick with your main.

 

[Tsuteto]

I have a way, but I think I'd be able to record 3 or 4 matches at best. Not the best way, seeing as it's recording the TV and all, but you get to here one or two words from me. I can't get my dazzle working on the stupid computer because it's Vista, and it won't recognize it XD

And jewed over is another saying of "screwed over", just using jewed instead of screwed. I mean no offense to any jews. It's one of the common phrases me and my friends use. Like sometimes we say, when something goes bad, "that's so mexican." But we mean no offense to mexicans either. Hell, mexicans are far nicer than americans. Americans suck in the nice department. Accidentally scratched someone's car with mine on the road, we both pulled over, looked at it, I'm all "****, sorry sorry sorry" and they're all "nah, it's fine, enjoy your day" and that was that. Mexican families ****ing rock.

But yeah, I don't think I saved any replays of those matches, so I can't exactly record them. But if someone wants to fight me, I'd be down for that ^^ Just let me know if you'd like a match recorded and I'll record it.

 

[ToP CaT]

nice guide, and i dont say that about many of them

 

[Facet]

Tsuteto, I'm already contemplating how to incorporate parts of your playstyle into mine.

Alright, now that you've perked everyone's interest, please describe precisely what he did that was so awesome

I've been playing too much wifi, so I'm too used to the timing there

Thats one reason that I tend to shy away from WiFi. I know it limits my exposure and experience, but for now Im getting along fine playing locally. Come to think of it, I avoid CPUs and Melee for the same reason; Im worried about building bad habits or incorrect timings.