K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[Mega Hawlucha]

I think you're all setting yourselves up for disappointment regarding E3. Revealing K. Rool would make sense at the event, considering how immensely popular he is. Do you see the issue there? It makes sense. Since when have they revealed things logically? They revealed Villager and WTF WFT last E3, granted they dropped a bombshell with Megaman, but he was the most popular newcomer candidate at the time (if my terrible memory serves correctly). I hope I'm horribly wrong and we see K. Rool be revealed and we can throw a hedonistic party that would make the ancient Greeks blush, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Oh I'm well aware this is entirely unlikely. But I enjoy speculating about the event, however outlandish.

 

[TCRhade]

I think you're all setting yourselves up for disappointment regarding E3. Revealing K. Rool would make sense at the event, considering how immensely popular he is. Do you see the issue there? It makes sense. Since when have they revealed things logically? They revealed Villager and WTF WFT last E3, granted they dropped a bombshell with Megaman, but he was the most popular newcomer candidate at the time (if my terrible memory serves correctly). I hope I'm horribly wrong and we see K. Rool be revealed and we can throw a hedonistic party that would make the ancient Greeks blush, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

This guy is absolutely right, sadly.... But I'd love for him to be wrong.

All hail the King.

 

[Welshy91]

Oh I'm well aware this is entirely unlikely. But I enjoy speculating about the event, however outlandish.

I wouldn't say it's outlandish, I'm just saying that we tend to hype ourselves far beyond what we should at every potential point. Here are just a few examples "omg e3 2013 k.rool incoming" "omg new direct k.rool incoming" "omg smash only direct k. rool incoming" "omg e3 2014 k. rool incoming". The general optimism is nice, but aren't you guys tired of getting your hopes up, just to be let down?

 

[TCRhade]

I wouldn't say it's outlandish, I'm just saying that we tend to hype ourselves far beyond what we should at every potential point. Here are just a few examples "omg e3 2013 k.rool incoming" "omg new direct k.rool incoming" "omg smash only direct k. rool incoming" "omg e3 2014 k. rool incoming". The general optimism is nice, but aren't you guys tired of getting your hopes up, just to be let down?

Sakurai let us Kutthroats down on THREE occasions, after all...

 

[Welshy91]

This guy is absolutely right.

That's all I needed to hear.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

KKR should be announced at the ending of the smash presentation, Sakurai says goodbye but the kreditz starts and KKR announcement trailer is shown

 

[TCRhade]

KKR should be announced at the ending of the smash presentation, Sakurai says goodbye but the kreditz starts and KKR announcement trailer is shown

Oh, that's good.

 

[Louie G.]

I think K. Rool has a great chance of being revealed in the Direct.

In the normal E3 conference I'm not too sure.

 

[Snagrio]

There is one difference this time around. The last three didn't have anything pointing K. Rool's way, but at the last big Direct we saw the Kremlings, seemingly as a precursor. Again, more then likely we won't see him at E3, but it's something.

 

[GM_3826]

My general opinion of K. Rool is that he's possible. Not necessarily likely.
That said? My full support.

 

[Snagrio]

I just hope Sakurai doesn't go overboard with not revealing characters that many expect. Yes, throwing around characters that nobody would have guessed is a great way to keep us on our toes, but there comes a point where we get sick of seeing random choices and just want our favorites announced already.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai let us Kutthroats down on THREE occasions, after all...

Kind of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Barely anyone knew anything about Smash Bros. before it came out, Diddy was the main focus of DK fans in Melee's time, and K. Rool was pretty much in Diddy's shadow until he was announced for Brawl.
So at most it would be ONE occasion, not three.

 

[Topplox]

I just hope Sakurai doesn't go overboard with not revealing characters that many expect. Yes, throwing around characters that nobody would have guessed is a great way to keep us on our toes, but there comes a point where we get sick of seeing random choices and just want our favorites announced already.

I'm more curious this time around to know how many newcomers we are actually expecting. When brawl was nearly out, we already knew about 12 Newcomers and there were still 3 Hidden newcomers afterwards (4 if you include Toon link being different then Young Link.). We still have only seen 6. I am not actually sure if we will get nearly as many as when brawl was out, but who knows at this point. Its driving me mad to try and think how many characters will be in this game, much less if K.Rool will get in this time around. It's tearing me apart!

 

[BKupa666]

Kind of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Barely anyone knew anything about Smash Bros. before it came out, Diddy was the main focus of DK fans in Melee's time, and K. Rool was pretty much in Diddy's shadow until he was announced for Brawl.
So at most it would be ONE occasion, not three.

So, in a nutshell, the entire DK franchise was let down three times, not just K. Rool.

It'd be great to get more information about how much of that stemmed from rights conflicts with Rare (before the buyout during Melee's development) and how much stemmed from just sheer apathy toward the series.

 

[Welshy91]

Kind of an exaggeration, don't you think?

Barely anyone knew anything about Smash Bros. before it came out, Diddy was the main focus of DK fans in Melee's time, and K. Rool was pretty much in Diddy's shadow until he was announced for Brawl.
So at most it would be ONE occasion, not three.

Maybe he meant Sakurai let us down with 3 different presentations, like E3, some random direct, and the Smash-specific direct.

 

[Snagrio]

Maybe he meant Sakurai let us down with 3 different presentations, like E3, some random direct, and the Smash-specific direct.

In that case then it would be four. E3, Rosalina's Direct, Little Mac's Direct, and the Smash Direct. Here's hoping against five...

 

[Xzsmmc]

I just hope Sakurai doesn't go overboard with not revealing characters that many expect. Yes, throwing around characters that nobody would have guessed is a great way to keep us on our toes, but there comes a point where we get sick of seeing random choices and just want our favorites announced already.

The problem I have with 'surprise' newcomers is that the surprise wears off after a day. Thus the entire reason for their inclusion has worn off as well.

I'd much rather be unsurprisingly satisfied than surprisingly disappointed.

 

[Deleted member]

So, in a nutshell, the entire DK franchise was let down three times, not just K. Rool.

It'd be great to get more information about how much of that stemmed from rights conflicts with Rare (before the buyout during Melee's development) and how much stemmed from just sheer apathy toward the series.

No, the entire DK franchise was "let down" once, and that was Melee.
Smash 64, every series aside from Mario and Pokémon got the same standard amount of content.
Melee, Star Fox and newcoming series Fire Emblem got 2 characters total while DK got just the ape himself. Granted, that has to do with the secondary characters being last-minute clones, but still; DK Jr. was an available option for clone status. So there's no excuse there.
Brawl, Diddy finally joined the cast, and Dixie was meant to do so as well (initially as a tag-team partner to Diddy then as a low priority semi-clone like Toon Link and Wolf). Aside from say...Kirby getting two Newcomers, DK didn't get that much of a raw deal. If anything, Metroid got the worse deal.

The only way the franchise would be "let down" in Smash 4 would be if it didn't get another newcomer.

Maybe he meant Sakurai let us down with 3 different presentations, like E3, some random direct, and the Smash-specific direct.

Hmm, I think that may have been the context now that I'm re-reading the post.
In which sense I would argue that it would be the Kutthroats' own fault for hyping up what Sakurai never promised to reveal.

 

[BKupa666]

No, the entire DK franchise was "let down" once, and that was Melee.
Smash 64, every series aside from Mario and Pokémon got the same standard amount of content.
Melee, Star Fox and newcoming series Fire Emblem got 2 characters total while DK got just the ape himself. Granted, that has to do with the secondary characters being last-minute clones, but still; DK Jr. was an available option for clone status. So there's no excuse there.
Brawl, Diddy finally joined the cast, and Dixie was meant to do so as well (initially as a tag-team partner to Diddy then as a low priority semi-clone like Toon Link and Wolf). Aside from say...Kirby getting two Newcomers, DK didn't get that much of a raw deal. If anything, Metroid got the worse deal.

The only way the franchise would be "let down" in Smash 4 would be if it didn't get another newcomer.

I say the series got let down in 64 because Kirby gets shoved up with Mario, Link and Pikachu as one of Smash's four "mascots" rather than DK, the unequivocal bigger character, as well as that Dedede was planned before Diddy, again, despite DK's series being unequivocally bigger. Those can both be chalked up to Sakurai and HAL bias. I also say the DK series got let down in Brawl because, after it got screwed in Melee, it got put into a position of forever making up for lost content, rather than keeping up with other franchises, and unlike Kirby, its creator isn't developing the game and adding in multiple characters in one sitting.

Also, I've had the low priority semi-clone Dixie discussion with you before, and I think your proof for that came down to her data not being listed right after Diddy's on the disc, but considering no other former duo character was cut from their counterpart, there's no way of telling whether or not that means solo Dixie became the consideration based on precedent. Metroid got screwed in a different way from DK in that it got content, but it got awful content that was in no way representative of either the series as a whole or what its fans (the non-awful ones, at least) wanted.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I say the series got let down in 64 because Kirby gets shoved up with Mario, Link and Pikachu as one of Smash's four "mascots" rather than DK, the unequivocal bigger character, as well as that Dedede was planned before Diddy

And Ganondorf. And Zelda as well.

 

[bellboy64]

In the wake of the great announcements today/yesterday, it's brought a rather wonderful thought to mind. A personal wish.

I'd like to see someone prominent in the Smash community main King K. Rool in a competitive element. By prominent I mean in the sense that the name will be notable and thus will have plenty of exposure.
It's entirely dependent on his inclusion obviously but... the point is this. I don't really follow the scene but from everything I've seen, the amount of dedication and skill (and talent) that the players display is so mind-bogglingly brilliant it's almost like witchcraft. The things I've seen I fear I'd be hard-pressed to see much like that for the rest of my life.

I want that for King K. Rool.
I want to see one of my favourite characters dance.

 

[BKupa666]

I want that for King K. Rool.
I want to see one of my favourite characters dance.

 

[bellboy64]

Thank you.

Spoiler

I'm gonna be disappointed if animated K. Rool isn't a skin now. Given the frequency he's been showing up in this thread.

 

[TCRhade]

In the wake of the great announcements today/yesterday, it's brought a rather wonderful thought to mind. A personal wish.

I'd like to see someone prominent in the Smash community main King K. Rool in a competitive element. By prominent I mean in the sense that the name will be notable and thus will have plenty of exposure.
It's entirely dependent on his inclusion obviously but... the point is this. I don't really follow the scene but from everything I've seen, the amount of dedication and skill (and talent) that the players display is so mind-bogglingly brilliant it's almost like witchcraft. The things I've seen I fear I'd be hard-pressed to see much like that for the rest of my life.

I want that for King K. Rool.
I want to see one of my favourite characters dance.

I would main K. Rool in such a way instantly if he's revealed. He'll be dancing A LOT on my consoles.

 

[Ultinarok]

Totally dreamt up the best reveal trailer ever. A sweeping reveal of a bunch of villains arrive on the Halberd (Bowser, Meta Knight, Wolf, Wario, Ganondorf) and Mario and crew start fighting them on deck and eventually start to win before a shot from K. Rool's blunderbuss reveals the Big Three (Ridley, K. Rool and Mewtwo). Then one splash screen to cover them all then the gameplay trailer begins.
Unrealistic, yes. But damn was it awesome.

I came up with something similar awhile ago. Can't remember where I posted it. But, basically, Bowser was being confronted by Mario, and the other 6 original cast members (everyone but Yoshi), show up to help, forcing Bowser to snap his fingers, and Ganondorf, Wolf, Dedede (now pointless, so maybe Meta Knight), Mewtwo, K. Rool and Ridley ride in Smash style and challenge their respective protagonists.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Anyone thinking the lack of Diddy Kong in the invitational demo (probably the Best Buy and E3 demo) could relate to some trailer that shows him and reveals King K. Rool? Or have I gone insane enough to wear a pirate costume and kidnap gorillas with a blunderbuss?.
Also, k.

 

[Welshy91]

Or have I gone insane enough to wear a pirate costume and kidnap gorillas with a blunderbuss?

Who are you? Where have you been?

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Here is my idea for KKR trailer
We see Toon Link and Link fightning DK and Diddy Kong in the pirate ship, suddenly they are attacked by cannonballs and they see a boat, then they see Lord Fredik "Lord Fredik freezes the battle" who shoots a cannonball at them, they dodge it and Link fires a bomb arrow at him, making an explotion, after that we see a walrus costume in the floor and DK get hit by another cannonball, KKR appears and the newcomer image is shown "KKR inkredible return"

 

[Louie G.]

Why the DK cartoon has such addicting songs I will never know.

"Eddie Let Me Go Back to my Home" has literally been stuck in my head all day.

 

[Deleted member]

I say the series got let down in 64 because Kirby gets shoved up with Mario, Link and Pikachu as one of Smash's four "mascots" rather than DK, the unequivocal bigger character, as well as that Dedede was planned before Diddy, again, despite DK's series being unequivocally bigger. Those can both be chalked up to Sakurai and HAL bias. I also say the DK series got let down in Brawl because, after it got screwed in Melee, it got put into a position of forever making up for lost content, rather than keeping up with other franchises, and unlike Kirby, its creator isn't developing the game and adding in multiple characters in one sitting.

Ah, it's the "Sakurai is biased for his own characters" conspiracy again.
Y'know, despite not adding a single other Kirby character outside the pink puff himself until Brawl (and by then both characters added were major requests; in comparison it wasn't until after Diddy showed up that any other DK character got any headway into Smash popularity).
Yeah, Dedede was planned for Smash 64, but unlike Bowser and Mewtwo, he was kept out of Melee for reasoning that doesn't have to do with not having time or resources as was the case before.
And so what about Diddy not being planned for 64? Nintendo had no ownership of him during that period; Rare did. Why do you think DK Jr. was brought back from pre-Rare DK for Mario Tennis instead of Diddy? Or that absolutely nothing from Rare's DKC other than DK's design had been featured in Mario spin-offs until Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour? Smash 64 and Melee are literally the only exceptions despite not being Mario spin-offs. And even then, it was just locales, Barrel Cannons, Klap Traps, Cranky's silhouette, and trophies for Dixie and K. Rool (yet strangely not Diddy...).

Hell, Sakurai even lists Diddy Kong as a Rare property on his pre-Melee poll. So if you want to point fingers at someone point them at Rare.


Aside from that, Kirby didn't get pushed as a "mascot" for Smash until....Brawl, actually.
Each of the "Original 8" were treated equal in 64 aside from Mario, who was somewhat on a higher pedestal. But given that he's Mario, "Mr. Nintendo" himself, it's excusable. Same with Melee; each of the starting 14 were treated equal except for Mario once again being on a slightly higher pedestal. And arguably Bowser too, being Mario's adversary and the most famous Nintendo villain. I mean, why else would Sakurai create a monstrous version of him to serve as a difficult NPC opponent?

Then Brawl came around and had Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu as the "main four" of promotion.
However, it seems Smash 4 broke away from that and is reverting back to the "everyone is equal but Mario" ways, though it could also be argued that's its the "Original 8" sans Yoshi, as well as Bowser, Pit, and Villager.

Also, I've had the low priority semi-clone Dixie discussion with you before, and I think your proof for that came down to her data not being listed right after Diddy's on the disc, but considering no other former duo character was cut from their counterpart, there's no way of telling whether or not that means solo Dixie became the consideration based on precedent. Metroid got screwed in a different way from DK in that it got content, but it got awful content that was in no way representative of either the series as a whole or what its fans (the non-awful ones, at least) wanted.

There's only one other duo to go by, and they've been a duo since their debut. Not exactly the same situation as an incoming duo that gets split up before their debut.

Aside from that, the whole thought of Dixie's Instance Slot Data not being after Diddy's if all she ever was intended to be was a tag-partner is entirely illogical. What point would Sakurai have to move the Instance Slot data in-between Wolf and Snake?
And no, it wasn't moved because her data has been dummied out since "Pra_Mai" has been dummied out while still is in-between R.O.B. and Jigglypuff. Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario are all in-between Jigglypuff and Toon Link, yet they're dummied out. Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik are also dummied out yet between Toon Link and Wolf.
Also, while she has no IC Constant data for attacks, she notably has an IC Constant for "CaptureSize" (still trying to figure this out) that Diddy lacks and also lacks an IC Constant for Crawling unlike Diddy.
One would think that if she was solely meant to be Diddy's partner, she would have the Crawling constant by default like how all of Popo's and Nana's IC Constants are the exact same.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Ah, it's the "Sakurai is biased for his own characters" conspiracy again.

Didn't Sakurai say something a while back where he was afraid to put any Kirby characters in Melee 'cause he might've seemed biased to his own creations?

 

[BKupa666]

Didn't Sakurai say something a while back where he was afraid to put any Kirby characters in Melee 'cause he might've seemed biased to his own creations?

Yes, which is what @GoldenYuiitusin was getting at as well, but it's hard to exactly take that quote seriously when Dedede was the character for whom he had back-up concepts planned in case Intelligent Systems wouldn't give him Marth. Which, as I said earlier, my level of annoyance with that depends on whatever negotiations had to occur with Diddy and Rare. If there were truly difficulties involved, which may or may not have been the case (Rare was certainly willing to collaborate, considering they helped design Melee DK), I'd be more understanding (though no Wario or Ganondorf first would still be a bit odd).

Anyhow, with the rest of that response, you're right in that I'm not remembering off the top of my head any part of Kirby being put on a pedestal in 64, but in Melee, he most certainly was considered part of the aforementioned Big Four, what with him being shown fighting Mario, Link, and Pikachu specifically at the very beginning of Melee's intro. That, and the All-Star Mode rest area music being straight from the Great Cave Offensive of Super Star for no reason whatsoever.

And understood about the Dixie part with regard to the data not being moved, but considering she wouldn't have been as simplistic a duo character as the Ice Climbers, it makes sense that her individual data would differ from Diddy's no matter what role she was in.

 

[Deleted member]

It doesn't make sense however, to be unable to crawl while Diddy can.

Being part of the intro fight for one second doesn't make Kirby suddenly a "Big Four" member. Bear in mind that the same showdown as in the intro is on the international cover of the game; same arena, and the same combatants except one. Kirby's not present (except on the sides in a box like the other characters) and Bowser's there instead.
There is no other instance where Kirby gets high amount of "promotion" compared to the others.

The All-Star Mode rest area having a remix of the Great Cave Offensive rest area theme is also not putting Kirby on a higher pedestal. It's just a throwback to a similar concept of another game Sakurai worked on.
Might as well claim the entire Smash series is Kirby-biased because plenty of elements from the franchise (not counting characters) have been influenced by Kirby in some form or another from the bubble shields being based off Mirror Kirby, Master Hand and Crazy Hand being based off Wham Bam Rock, Bowser's former dashing animation being based off of Heavy Lobster, Brawl's Challenges being based off of Air Ride's Checklists, and so on and so forth.

Though at the same time, whether or not Sakurai is partial to his own previous works (which can't be denied; there's very clear connections, even in KI Uprising) is irrelevant to the concept of being biased for his own characters (which he tries to avoid) and Kirby being given favoritism compared to other characters.

 

[BKupa666]

I don't understand the reasoning behind it, but considering Diddy can crawl (in tight spaces) in DKC whereas Dixie never could (tight spaces never returned in DKC2 or 3), there may have been some source material-based rationale.

That's a notion I've grappled with to some degree...listening to the Smash Run portion of the Direct, it's clear there are instances where Sakurai "revisits" an idea not because he wants to bolster attention for his own content, but because he finds it to be a legitimately good idea. It's tough for me to determine where this crosses the line into bias, because whereas a bubble shield may have been a "good idea," flooding the SSE with Kirby, Meta Knight and Dedede screentime is unquestionably (IMO) Sakurai using familiar characters as a personal binky to compensate for poor storytelling abilities at best, and blatant bias at worst. Also, look at Kirby's prominence in the newcomer trailers of Mega

"To make this K. Rool-related," I think he suffers from DK essentially having had to make up for lost content since Melee, whether due to Sakurai or Rare or some combination thereof. I think, had Diddy gotten into Melee as he should have, K. Rool would have been a lock for Brawl (and Dixie for now), not to mention the course of DK series history being totally altered, starting with Jungle Beat not irrationally throwing away all previous characters (other than "The Banana") to "try something fresh." I think this is a unique dilemma that no other series has faced with Smash this far.

 

[Xzsmmc]

When it comes to Sakurai being biased, I don't quite believe it yet. I will however, if we get a new Kid Icarus character in this game (Which is basically a certainty) but not a new DK one. If KI's recent resurgence is enough for it to warrant a newcomer despite the franchise being dormant for far longer than DKC, then DKC's should be worth that as well. Especially since Returns was such a huge success.

 

[a Link to the Forums]

This is my first time on this thread so might as well give my opinion on King Koopa K Rool.

I believe he has a solid chance because of his insane popularity. Not guaranteed but still pretty decent. I don't believe he'll make it in before Dixie though. At first I thought his chances were 50-50 but then the Kritters appeared in Smash Run. Now I by no means have played any of the original DKC games (Returns and Tropical Freeze being the only DK games I actually own) so correct me if I'm wrong here but these Kritters seem to be based off and behave like the ones found in the original DKC game. I find that to raise his chances because there is no other major character from that game other than K. Rool that is not playable, but not much. I think the Kritters are there simply because they are a classic DK enemy.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that I believe he won't make it rather I believe Dixie is more likely. I actually think we may get 4 DK characters because, well, it's DK.

Okay now that I've got that out of the way I'll like to say he looks very cool and would be another awesome villain, I support you K Rool.

 

[egaddmario]

As was previously pointed out, it's technically Rare's fault. DK has been the only series that basically had to start from scratch because of it. Jungle Beat, then Donkey Konga, Jungle Climber, i mean, the series had more spin offs than adventure games. And only since Retro got their hands on it and restored the series to its former glory has Nintendo realized, "oh hey, this is actually a good series that people enjoy." We can only hope Sakurai has noticed this as well.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I blame Nintendo. They should've shown the series more love, and should've made it as big as a priorty to them as it is now back in the day when Rare still had their ways with the series.

 

[Spinosaurus]

As was previously pointed out, it's technically Rare's fault. DK has been the only series that basically had to start from scratch because of it. Jungle Beat, then Donkey Konga, Jungle Climber, i mean, the series had more spin offs than adventure games. And only since Retro got their hands on it and restored the series to its former glory has Nintendo realized, "oh hey, this is actually a good series that people enjoy." We can only hope Sakurai has noticed this as well.

Jungle Beat isn't a spin off because it has nothing to do with DKC. Aside from having some sort of animal buddies.

It's a better game for that.

 

[BKupa666]

Jungle Beat isn't a spin off because it has nothing to do with DKC. Aside from having some sort of animal buddies.

It's a better game for that.

Jungle Beat basically tried to ride the DKC trilogy's coattails, all the while not respecting said trilogy in the slightest. You have toadies from Nintendo EAD talking about how "Donkey Kong's past look isn't fresh enough for today's audiences, so we're only bringing back Donkey Kong and The Banana as characters," yet still throwing in features like the Animal Buddies, Rambi and Enguarde Hoofer and Orco, and the Kong Family Party Monkeys, as if to replace DKC with a Lord Fredrik version of itself for no good reason.

People retroactively singing Jungle Beat's praises forget that, had it actually been successful, we may never have gotten another DKC title, let alone one from a studio as skilled as Retro. A character of such high status as DK deserves better than a sideshow fate grinning like a jack***, attacking innocuous sleeping pigs and ripping the tongues out of fish, as if said "skilled" developers craved desperately to recreate him as an "edgy" character.

tl;dr Let's have the Jungle Beat discussion elsewhere and return to K. Rool discussion in his thread.