K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

[FalKoopa]

I see. I didn't look at it that way.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel more optimistic about him mainly because we had a Direct at the pivotal time for promoting Tropical Freeze, and it passed without mention of Dixie. Nintendo would have benefited a lot more if they had revealed Dixie at that time than if they had revealed Mac... it makes it look like she's not in the game, something that can only help K. Rool.

Diddy's current reveal doesn't really mean much for K. Rool's odds, but it does mean that they could theoretically show him now were he in the game. They wouldn't show him before they showed Diddy.

You're not making sense.
You act as though K. Rool has stronger chances because Dixie wasn't revealed on the Nintendo Direct, while saying that they wouldn't show him before Diddy, who was revealed after the Direct....

By the same logic, they wouldn't show Dixie before Diddy either.
Which means.....nothing has changed.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

You're not making sense.
You act as though K. Rool has stronger chances because Dixie wasn't revealed on the Nintendo Direct, while saying that they wouldn't show him before Diddy, who was revealed after the Direct....

By the same logic, they wouldn't show Dixie before Diddy either.
Which means.....nothing has changed.

It could be argued that if they wanted to promote Tropical Freeze in the Direct they'd have shown Diddy earlier, instead of Lucario in January or even Marth way back in November, and then have shown Dixie in the Direct. Or if they really wanted to go wild they could have shown both Diddy and Dixie in the same Direct, as individual characters of course. It seems like Diddy is all the promotion Tropical Freeze gets, otherwise they sure missed a grand opportunity here, as Dixie's promotional value only gets thinner over time.

 

[Groose]

You're not making sense.
You act as though K. Rool has stronger chances because Dixie wasn't revealed on the Nintendo Direct, while saying that they wouldn't show him before Diddy, who was revealed after the Direct....

By the same logic, they wouldn't show Dixie before Diddy either.
Which means.....nothing has changed.

Hmm. No, I think my logic still stands. The main point of my argument is this: Dixie wasn't revealed in the proximity Tropical Freeze's launch, suggesting she's probably not in the game. Dixie not being in the game would help a certain Kremling kompetitor. If they had planned on showing Dixie Kong to promote Tropical Freeze, they would just have revealed Diddy earlier in preparation for the Dixie Kong reveal in the Direct.

You do expose one or two errors in my pre-Direct thinking, but my point still stands.

EDIT:

It could be argued that if they wanted to promote Tropical Freeze in the Direct they'd have shown Diddy earlier, instead of Lucario in January or even Marth way back in November, and then have shown Dixie in the Direct. Or if they really wanted to go wild they could have shown both Diddy and Dixie in the same Direct, as individual characters of course. It seems like Diddy is all the promotion Tropical Freeze gets, otherwise they sure missed a grand opportunity here, as Dixie's promotional value only gets thinner over time.

I agree with what he says.

 

[Deleted member]

While Cranky's never gets old!

....get it?

EDIT:
Here's why the logic of "they would have shown Dixie then" doesn't stand.

Almost a full month after 3D World.

 

[Groose]

While Cranky's never gets old!

....get it?

EDIT:
Here's why the logic of "they would have shown Dixie then" doesn't stand.

Almost a full month after 3D World.

Rosalina was announced...in the closest International Nintendo Direct to the launch of 3D World. It was indeed a month after the game launched, but it was still the nearest possible point to launch that they could get. I don't see how that helps but add to my theory.

We're not out of the woods yet. Dixie could still help promote the new DK game as late as an April Direct. However, the farther we get from Tropical Freeze's launch, the more unlikely she gets.

 

[Thunderfang747]

Rosalina was announced...in the closest International Nintendo Direct to the launch of 3D World. It was indeed a month after the game launched, but it was still the nearest possible point to launch that they could get. I don't see how that helps but add to my theory.

We're not out of the woods yet. Dixie could still help promote the new DK game as late as an April Direct. However, the farther we get from Tropical Freeze's launch, the more unlikely she gets.

Good points, you've changed my opinion on the matter.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dixie could still easily be the next Newcomer that gets revealed however. I'd hold out my flag till we get a Newcomer that isn't her.

 

[Johnknight1]

Honestly, Dixie not being confirmed alongside Diddy IMO helps K. Rool's chances because the tag team IMO would take up the time of adding 2 newcomers, because that would be a pain to balance without making both characters look stupid, which it inevitably will, because such tag team duos that aren't clones of each other have never worked in any good fighting game ever, and that's the truth of it.

That alone helps K. Rool. Heck, if Dixie or Cranky were confirmed in a month or 2, that wouldn't kill K. Rool's chances, either. He would still have a respectable shot at being playable IMO. After all, it's not like the Smash developers (namely the 6 top producers, including Sakurai) have set "franchise limits" for a series as gigantic as Donkey Kong (which I argue is more important than Nintendo than Zelda right now).

The way I see it, we got at least 8 months to go until 1 or both of these 2 games launches. That leaves plenty of time for a K. Rool reveal.

I mean, the team would have to be pretty stupid to omit 1 of the 3 most popular potential Nintendo owned newcomers (along with Ridley and Little Mac), which will always be the core market for Smash, as well as omit such a unique character who has so much potential for greatness (that anyone who understands game design ignores people permanently who say he's not unique).

Also, more people are starting to crawl out of woodwork with the misconception that the Kremlins belong to Rare and that's why they are omitted from games.

Why do stupid people choose to be stupid you ask=??? Because they're stupid.

 

[Deleted member]

It's fair to ask for a re-establishment of why we feel K. Rool's chances have improved, considering that trounces upon the much-wanted Dixie Kong in this case. I've stated this previously in the thread, so I'll try to keep this fresh and skip over unimportant details. First of all, you have to realize Dixie Kong was not popular nor did she have half the relevant potential in the period before Tropical Freeze. This was partially because Dixie Kong had not been in a game since Donkey Kong Country 3 (and some spin-offs). K. Rool had before DKCTF, been the most occurring character period in the Donkey Kong Country games.

Her reveal turned things around and the assumption was made that Dixie Kong was getting a "push," so to speak, from Nintendo and that Sakurai would follow. What makes a push is a unified attempt to promote the character, like putting her into Smash Bros. This was all because before her reveal Dixie Kong wasn't on the radar for newcomers in Smash 4; her popularity came long after the finalized roster. She had her fans, but her support only recently achieved its current level. Unless there is a degree of unpredictability to her that takes precedence over the quantifiable things you'd usually take into account, this is basically the only way you could see it as someone who thought she'd be in. There was reason to believe this, as Rosalina was given a similar push and a creative moveset designed around the Luma.

The Direct passed was the only opportunity to reveal Dixie as it was relevant to Donkey Kong. You may think Little Mac was random and nothing to do with DK, but he is not - he is actually as close to a DK-relevant, non-DK origin newcomer you can get, as the eponymous DK and DK Jr. appear in the Punch Out!! games. Every single one. It's not just that she didn't get revealed, another character took her place. There is no other opportunity, following the pattern of reveals, that gives Dixie such a fantastic chance to both get promoted and market her own game. The only good opportunity now is either when the game comes out, or at E3 and she doesn't have the impact as a reveal to pull off the latter.

This opens up its own problems though. She has been demonstrated to not be a tag team with Diddy, we can all agree to that. But if she's on her own as a solo set, well, what's the point? There is little to her to make a set in the first place. She just doesn't have the potential for the kind of set that Sakurai is looking for in Smash 4. Considering as well how Sakurai is giving Diddy's own weaponry a distinct DK64 flavor as well, this both goes against Dixie using new props from Tropical Freeze like the bubblegum gun or fitting in with her fellow Kong for consistency, considering she never even appeared in DK64. This may seem like a nitpick, but honestly, Sakurai does notice tiny details like that.

My second point on her set is the possibility of a low-effort one exists, but that's a very weak addition to the roster. She could be cloned from Diddy largely, slightly altered like Luigi or Falco, but that would go against the philosophy taken by newcomers. Little Mac is a rushdown-themed boxer, Rosalina uses a detachable minion, WFT is the shock rep, Villager has random props and MegaMan is the triple threat of retro, projectiles and fan favorite. Dixie has hair and an aerial focus. There's nothing of note to her outside of those two things. By comparison, K. Rool has a million times more he can utilize and stands out as a character.

What that all means is that if anyone is going to get revealed at E3, it is undeniably better off being K. Rool than Dixie. If she was given a great set, the effort it would take demands a big spotlight, so unless she is revealed alongside K. Rool or over him at E3, she's unlikely to have a particularly original set if revealed at launch, or at an unpredictable time. Being that Sakurai's philosophy is what it is, the likelihood of a solo clone or clone-ish set is low. It's a complicated issue of timing for the most part, and I could be grasping at straws, but there is some method to Sakurai's madness.

There's always the chance we'll get both but it's more likely in my opinion we'll get just one.

 

[Deleted member]

a. Dixie Kong was popular prior to Tropical Freeze.
She's never been that far behind K. Rool.

b. Little Mac's reveal has more to do with it being Punch-Out's 30th anniversary than it has to do with being DK related.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Couldn’t have said it better myself than Smash Daddy did up there.

Before Tropical Freeze, it was obvious that K. Rool outclassed Dixie in absolutely every way outside of the fact that Sakurai had considered her for Brawl before. It was directly confirmed in an interview that Dixie was only considered for Brawl as a tag team partner of Diddy, though. With both the possibility of a tag team being deconfirmed and her missing her new game promotion, Dixie’s odds have gone straight down the gutter.

 

[Deleted member]

a. Dixie Kong was popular prior to Tropical Freeze.
She's never been that far behind K. Rool.

b. Little Mac's reveal has more to do with it being Punch-Out's 30th anniversary than it has to do with being DK related.

She was popular, but not anywhere near the levels to get her into Smash because of it. She actually was quite far behind K. Rool in those days before Tropical Freeze, although I can't prove it other than saying that was the impression I got from boards such as this one. I may be wrong, but I got the sense that Funky was just as liked.

That's true, but it still had a DK theme to it, DK is a part of all the Dojo-exclusive content and as said, he's the only one, aside from I guess Mario as the referee, who has a connection to the series. It's not like we haven't also passed over similar anniversaries for other newcomers' series, I assume that if he had Dixie to show off he would have done so.

 

[False Sense]

Her reveal turned things around and the assumption was made that Dixie Kong was getting a "push," so to speak, from Nintendo and that Sakurai would follow. What makes a push is a unified attempt to promote the character, like putting her into Smash Bros. This was all because before her reveal Dixie Kong wasn't on the radar for newcomers in Smash 4; her popularity came long after the finalized roster. She had her fans, but her support only recently achieved its current level. Unless there is a degree of unpredictability to her that takes precedence over the quantifiable things you'd usually take into account, this is basically the only way you could see it as someone who thought she'd be in. There was reason to believe this, as Rosalina was given a similar push and a creative moveset designed around the Luma.

The Direct passed was the only opportunity to reveal Dixie as it was relevant to Donkey Kong. You may think Little Mac was random and nothing to do with DK, but he is not - he is actually as close to a DK-relevant, non-DK origin newcomer you can get, as the eponymous DK and DK Jr. appear in the Punch Out!! games. Every single one. It's not just that she didn't get revealed, another character took her place. There is no other opportunity, following the pattern of reveals, that gives Dixie such a fantastic chance to both get promoted and market her own game. The only good opportunity now is either when the game comes out, or at E3 and she doesn't have the impact as a reveal to pull off the latter.

This opens up its own problems though. She has been demonstrated to not be a tag team with Diddy, we can all agree to that. But if she's on her own as a solo set, well, what's the point? There is little to her to make a set in the first place. She just doesn't have the potential for the kind of set that Sakurai is looking for in Smash 4. Considering as well how Sakurai is giving Diddy's own weaponry a distinct DK64 flavor as well, this both goes against Dixie using new props from Tropical Freeze like the bubblegum gun or fitting in with her fellow Kong for consistency, considering she never even appeared in DK64. This may seem like a nitpick, but honestly, Sakurai does notice tiny details like that.

My second point on her set is the possibility of a low-effort one exists, but that's a very weak addition to the roster. She could be cloned from Diddy largely, slightly altered like Luigi or Falco, but that would go against the philosophy taken by newcomers. Little Mac is a rushdown-themed boxer, Rosalina uses a detachable minion, WFT is the shock rep, Villager has random props and MegaMan is the triple threat of retro, projectiles and fan favorite. Dixie has hair and an aerial focus. There's nothing of note to her outside of those two things. By comparison, K. Rool has a million times more he can utilize and stands out as a character.

What that all means is that if anyone is going to get revealed at E3, it is undeniably better off being K. Rool than Dixie. If she was given a great set, the effort it would take demands a big spotlight, so unless she is revealed alongside K. Rool or over him at E3, she's unlikely to have a particularly original set if revealed at launch, or at an unpredictable time. Being that Sakurai's philosophy is what it is, the likelihood of a solo clone or clone-ish set is low. It's a complicated issue of timing for the most part, and I could be grasping at straws, but there is some method to Sakurai's madness.

There's always the chance we'll get both but it's more likely in my opinion we'll get just one.

I think I've just been convinced of K. Rool's chances.

Edit: Jeez, what's with this editing system? I try to fix a little detail and then it messes with everything else...

 

[BlitznBurst]

a. Dixie Kong was popular prior to Tropical Freeze.
She's never been that far behind K. Rool.

b. Little Mac's reveal has more to do with it being Punch-Out's 30th anniversary than it has to do with being DK related.

She had a fair amount of support, but it was nowhere near K. Rool's levels.

Though I think trying to claim a DK connection with Little Mac's reveal is grasping for straws, really.

 

[BKupa666]

Perspective as far as the popularity of K. Rool and Dixie is needed.

Dixie was always quite a ways behind K. Rool as far as being a popular request, and still is to some degree, albeit she's much closer now than she was. Sure, she was never as out-of-the-picture as, say, the Metroid Prime Hunters are to Ridley, but that's still not saying much. At least most people can actually name Dixie...when they're not calling her 'Daisy' or 'Trixie,' that is.

 

[Popo Nana Power]

First of all, you have to realize Dixie Kong was not popular nor did she have half the relevant potential in the period before Tropical Freeze. This was partially because Dixie Kong had not been in a game since Donkey Kong Country 3 (and some spin-offs).

That's not really accurate. After the DKC trilogy and 64, she appeared in 6 other DK games (not including TF), which is more than K. Rool.

Not really the subject of this thread though.

 

[Johnknight1]

a. Dixie Kong was popular prior to Tropical Freeze.
She's never been that far behind K. Rool.

b. Little Mac's reveal has more to do with it being Punch-Out's 30th anniversary than it has to do with being DK related.

I think the big thing with Diddy/Dixie is from a design standpoint it would take more time than any newcomer before it, including Rosalina and Luma, thus limiting the newcomers by quite a bit, possibly at the cost of K. Rool (similar to how Sonic getting in might have shoved Mewtwo out the door).

Also, Dixie's popularity in regards to Smash For was never anywhere close to K. Rool's popularity. Among potential newcomers, only really Ridley, Mega Man, and Little Mac continually have had similar popularity to K. Rool.

As for Little Mac's reveal... it's been one we've known was coming since E3. Anyone who didn't think Little Mac would be playable after we saw a boxing ring that everyone with a brain realized was from Punch-Out!! clearly wasn't thinking right.

 

[MasterWarlord]

That's not really accurate. After the DKC trilogy and 64, she appeared in 6 other DK games (not including TF), which is more than K. Rool.

Not really the subject of this thread though.

Yes, Dixie shows up in more meaningless spin offs (Most of them Mario spin offs) after Donkey Kong 64, which is pretty much the death of the series until Returns and Tropical Freeze.

The only main series games between DK64 and Returns are Jungle Beat and the two DS games. Nobody is in that embarrassment of a game known as Jungle Beat, not even Diddy. Dixie is in King of Swing and Jungle Climber with cameo roles while K. Rool is the main villian. Cranky is a main player in the story while Dixie shows up in the background and as a bonus character only available in extra modes (Alongside Funky, Wrinkly, K. Rool, a generic Kremling, and Bubbles from Cluclu Land. . .). The point is K. Rool has relevant roles still, while Dixie had to wait for Tropical Freeze since DKC3 to get one. 17 years.

If you really want to discuss meaningless spin offs for some reason (I will not even bother to address Mario spin offs), they are both in Barrel Blast, while Dixie shows up as a filler character to replace Banjo/Conker in Diddy Kong Racing. Nintendo still has the rights to Wizpig, K. Rool is not going to randomly replace him in that game. Aside from that, you have. . .Japan exclusive Donkey Konga games.

 

[Sehnsucht]

That's not really accurate. After the DKC trilogy and 64, she appeared in 6 other DK games (not including TF), which is more than K. Rool.

Not really the subject of this thread though.

Is that not what was meant by "spin-off"? TF marks her first playable appearance in a non-spin-off (i.e. mainstream) DK game. A quick venture to the DK wiki notes the following as Dixie's appearances between DK64 and TF:

-King of Swing (GBA)
-Jungle Climber (DS)
-Konga 2 (GC)
-Konga 3 (GC)
-Diddy Kong Racing DS
-Barrel Blast (Wii)
-Mario Baseball, Sluggers, and Hoops

So indeed, six DK spin-offs and three Mario sports games. King of Swing, Jungle Climber, and Barrel Blast were developped by Paon, the Konga games were rhythm-based peripheral-gimmick titles made by Namco (with Konga 3 being Japan-exclusive), and Diddy Kong Racing is a remake in which Dixie replaces Conker the Squirrel.

K Rool, on the other hand, appeared in King of Swing, Jungle Climber, Barrel Blast, and Sluggers.

So yeah, Dixie has a 9>4 advantage over K Rool - where spin-offs are concerned (and I didn't even mention the DK Land titles). That isn't saying much, given that all the DK spin-offs were all received to average success and acclaim at best, and were all handled by third-party developers. And the Mario sports games are Mario sports games.

Suffice it to say that these games don't give much by way of support for the cases of either K Rool or Dixie; all it shows is that neither have been totally forgotten.

But at the moment, K Rool does have a 4>3 advantage over Dixie when it comes to actual DK games (DKC1, 2, 3, and 64 VS DKC2, 3, and TF). The mainstream DK titles have much more relevance to the conversation of K Rool VS Dixie than the spin-offs, so if one is to use game attendance as an argument, K Rool does have the technical advantage at the present time.

 

[Popo Nana Power]

Yes, Dixie shows up in more meaningless spin offs (Most of them Mario spin offs) after Donkey Kong 64, which is pretty much the death of the series until Returns and Tropical Freeze.

Uh, those are not spin-offs? The Mario sports games are, but the other DK games are full games in their own right, independent of DKC.

But if you're not counting those games, that's fine. It just doesn't make much sense to see K. Rool as more "relevant" because he appeared in a 15 year-old game (infamous and poorly received, I might add) and Dixie didn't . It was released shortly after DKC3 anyway (which had the entire game was devoted to her).

I certainly would prefer K. Rool over Dixie though, just saying Dixie is a major character.

 

[False Sense]

Uh, those are not spin-offs? The Mario sports games are, but the other DK games are full games in their own right, independent of DKC.

But if you're not counting those games, that's fine. It just doesn't make much sense to see K. Rool as more "relevant" because he appeared in a 15 year-old game (infamous and poorly received, I might add) and Dixie didn't . It was released shortly after DKC3 anyway (which had the entire game was devoted to her).

...Are you talking about Donkey Kong 64?

 

[Waluridleykryrool]

*Never mind i confused Jungle Beat with konga...somehow*

 

[BKupa666]

*Never mind i confused Jungle Beat with konga...somehow*

I was gonna say...

Spoiler

...I think we're all trying to forget about that.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Uh, those are not spin-offs? The Mario sports games are, but the other DK games are full games in their own right, independent of DKC.

But if you're not counting those games, that's fine. It just doesn't make much sense to see K. Rool as more "relevant" because he appeared in a 15 year-old game (infamous and poorly received, I might add) and Dixie didn't . It was released shortly after DKC3 anyway (which had the entire game was devoted to her).

So you're using game quality as an argument against DK64 when DKC3 is considered the worst Country game, and are trying to talk up rhythm based spin off titles?

 

[Popo Nana Power]

Nope, I didn't argue that at all. But I can see this isn't the most productive conversation, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Uh, those are not spin-offs? The Mario sports games are, but the other DK games are full games in their own right, independent of DKC.

It seems to me that all six of them are, going by the cut-and-dry definition of "spin-off".

We have two racing games (DKR DS and Barrel Blast), two rhythm-based games (Konga), and two handheld platformers with unorthodox game mechanics not seen in mainstream DK titles (KS and JC).

DK is a platformer series first and foremost - DKC, 64, and DKCR (even the original DK Arcade game was a platformer). Those other six games constitute different genres, and are therefore spin-offs.

The Mario series is a platforming one first and foremost. Mario Kart is a spin-off of the main series, incorporating various characters from the main series as playable characters. And so it goes for Mario Party and all the Mario Sports games (including the Baseball games in which DK characters appear).

The Mario Kart games are full games in their own right, independent of the mainline Mario platformers - but the Mario Kart series is nonetheless a spin-off series, since they took characters and other elements from the core platforming franchise and adapted them in new genres and games (in the case of Mario Kart, the kart racing genre).

So it goes for the core DK platformer titles, and the spin-off racing/rhythm/etc. games that also incorporate DK characters/locales/design/elements/etc.

None of this is to slight these six DK games, or their relevance (or lack thereof) to Dixie (or K Rool). It is simply a matter of classification.

But if you're not counting those games, that's fine. It just doesn't make much sense to see K. Rool as more "relevant" because he appeared in a 15 year-old game (infamous and poorly received, I might add) and Dixie didn't . It was released shortly after DKC3 anyway (which had the entire game was devoted to her).

Relevancy, in the sense of most recent appearance(s), is a poor line of argumentation. If you are to focus on relevance, focus instead on relevance to the series of the given character.

For instance, Dixie is a prominent (i.e. recurring) character in the core DK platformer series, as a secondary character. K Rool is a prominent (i.e. recurring) character in the core DK platformer series, as the most recurring antagonist and canon archenemy to the Kong tribe.

At the moment, Smash has the principal protagonist (Donkey Kong) from the main DK series and the ostensible foremost secondary character (deuteragonist, even), in the form of Diddy Kong.

If Smash's goal is to include the most relevant/important characters from a given series, then who is more deserving? An additional supporting character (Dixie), or the foremost series antagonist (K Rool)?

This, I would assert, is the issue at the heart of the Dixie-K Rool conversation, since both are certainly deserving in their own rights, and trying to discern which is more deserving is where the true challenge lies (though of course, where I stand on the matter is self-evident).

 

[Groose]

-Konga 2 (GC)
-Konga 3 (GC)

So indeed, six DK spin-offs and three Mario sports games. King of Swing, Jungle Climber, and Barrel Blast were developped by Paon, the Konga games were rhythm-based peripheral-gimmick titles made by Namco (with Konga 3 being Japan-exclusive), and Diddy Kong Racing is a remake in which Dixie replaces Conker the Squirrel.

K Rool, on the other hand, appeared in King of Swing, Jungle Climber, Barrel Blast, and Sluggers.

So yeah, Dixie has a 9>4 advantage over K Rool - where spin-offs are concerned (and I didn't even mention the DK Land titles).

King K. Rool appeared in the original Donkey Konga whereas Dixie did not. There was a minigame devoted to him and in the opening cutscene DK and Diddy have a conversation about how they're afraid the Bongos are some trap he set up.

EDIT: Oh, and there's also the whole DKC cartoon. K. Rool was one of the two main antagonists that appeared in nearly every episode; Dixie featured in just a very select few. I think that's worth mentioning, considering things from the cartoon (DK's Giant Punch) have made it into Smash before.

a. Dixie Kong was popular prior to Tropical Freeze.
She's never been that far behind K. Rool.

Dixie was indeed popular. However, she was pretty far behind K. Rool.

Though I think trying to claim a DK connection with Little Mac's reveal is grasping for straws, really.

The only major connection that Little Mac's reveal has with DK is that Little Mac was revealed on the day Tropical Freeze came out. Those who say that DK's limited history Little Mac and his cameo in Mac's artwork is meant to hype Tropical Freeze is more than grasping for straws.

 

[Deleted member]

The only major connection that Little Mac's reveal has with DK is that Little Mac was revealed on the day Tropical Freeze came out. Those who say that DK's limited history Little Mac and his cameo in Mac's artwork is meant to hype Tropical Freeze is more than grasping for straws.

Little Mac wasn't used to advertise the game. However, his being a newcomer was because of the anniversary and he happened to have a connection to Donkey Kong that was exploited. It wasn't just random that they chose Donkey Kong to be there. This all took precedence over Dixie Kong's reveal and likely means that there is nothing to show or that he plans to make her an unlockable clone. I think that part of my logic was sound, forgive some mistakes in a post that massive.

Personally, I feel that an unlockable is not enough for DK when it is a massive series for the Wii, Wii U and to an extent the 3DS (DKCR3D). It deserves and its popularity, over any other franchise, justifies one big newcomer.

 

[Sehnsucht]

King K. Rool appeared in the original Donkey Konga whereas Dixie did not. There was a minigame devoted to him and in the opening cutscene DK and Diddy have a conversation about him.

I wasn't aware. He doesn't appear as a playable character, it seems, but I suppose this does serves as an appearance.

The only major connection that Little Mac's reveal has with DK is that Little Mac was revealed on the day Tropical Freeze came out. Those who say that DK's limited history Little Mac and his cameo in Mac's artwork is meant to hype Tropical Freeze is more than grasping for straws.

Besides, Little Mac was revealed this month because February 2014 marks the 30th Anniversary of the original arcade Punch-Out!! game (which was first released in February 1984).

In that light, February's Direct was the most appropriate occasion imaginable to reveal Little Mac. This only further serves to cement the pattern of Newcomer Direct reveals (i.e. the Direct they are showcased in is determined by the nearest notable anniversary or nearest relevant game release).

February's Direct was the most appropriate time to show of Dixie as well as Mac, given the TF release and the Direct's showcase of the game. But she was nowhere to be seen. Either Mac's priority has pushed back her reveal, she was always going to be shown off later, or she isn't in SSB4 pure and simple. The aforementioned pattern when it comes to Newcomer reveals in Directs, and how Dixie did not adhere to this pattern, does not do her any favours for her chances.

 

[StupendousMike]

EDIT: Oh, and there's also the whole DKC cartoon. K. Rool was one of the two main antagonists that appeared in nearly every episode; Dixie featured in just a very select few. I think that's worth mentioning, considering things from the cartoon (DK's Giant Punch) have made it into Smash before.

That's just an easter egg, and it's not even a connection I've ever made myself. Using the cartoon to bolster K. Rool's chances is pretty silly, if you ask me. That's like assuming that because Sonic ate a chili dog in the opening cutscene, that Sally Acorn and Bunnie Rabbot should have appeared in Sonic Generations.

And to address the earlier comment about DK64 being poorly received, I can only speak for myself, but I find that game incredibly boring and tedious and really don't get the love for it. On the flipside, I really don't get the ire hurtled at DKC3. I love that game, and would call it my second favorite in the series.

 

[Sehnsucht]

That's just an easter egg, and it's not even a connection I've ever made myself. Using the cartoon to bolster K. Rool's chances is pretty silly, if you ask me. That's like assuming that because Sonic ate a chili dog in the opening cutscene, that Sally Acorn and Bunnie Rabbot should have appeared in Sonic Generations.

And to address the earlier comment about DK64 being poorly received, I can only speak for myself, but I find that game incredibly boring and tedious and really don't get the love for it. On the flipside, I really don't get the ire hurtled at DKC3. I love that game, and would call it my second favorite in the series.

I thoroughly enjoyed DK64. I began gaming with the N64 era, so I played many of the collect-a-thon platformers (DK64, SM64, Banjo-Kazooie, etc.), along with the other choice First-Party Nintendo and Rareware games (among others).

DK64 in particular had vibrant visuals (for the time), a delightfully cartoony atmosphere, highly diverse missions and tasks, an excellent soundtrack (composed by the great Grant Kirkhope), and had a lot of stuff to collect, which satisfied my completionist drive (you complete the game at 201%, for crying out loud!).

I suppose that the things you are exposed to in your formative years will mold your palette. I still enjoy platformers, having played other collect-a-thon and more pure platformers (like Spyro and Crash), and I continue to enjoy the mainline Mario platformers. Were I to play the original DKC games, I'm sure I would enjoy them, but my heart lies with the N64.

 

[MasterWarlord]

In my opinion, the fact that Little Mac has so little connection to Tropical Freeze is a point against Dixie. Sure, DK has some history with Little Mac, but not enough to make showing up on the Tropical Freeze release date meaningful. I wouldn't say an anniversary is particularly important either, given tons of them pass by without anything happening. It was just a nice coincidence that the anniversary was coming up, so they used it. If Dixie was in, her coming back for her first non spin-off/cameo/remake role in 17 years would certainly be a hell of a lot more important and actually advertise the new game. Little Mac has to link to the website to the old Wii game, when Dixie would be the obvious advertisement choice.

 

[Arcanir]

And to address the earlier comment about DK64 being poorly received, I can only speak for myself, but I find that game incredibly boring and tedious and really don't get the love for it. On the flipside, I really don't get the ire hurtled at DKC3. I love that game, and would call it my second favorite in the series.

DK64 was pretty well recieved, maybe not to the same level as the DKC series it still did well in its own right and certainly better then the games that came after it excluding Returns and TF.

On a personal note, it's still one of my favorite games from the 64 era (and what got me into the DK series) as I enjoyed the characters, enemies, levels and missions that it provided.

 

[Dropkick JD]

K. Rool as more "relevant" because he appeared in a 15 year-old game (infamous and poorly received, I might add)

I still want to know what game you're talking about here. Like, REALLY bad.

If you are indeed talking about DK64, me and you are going to have to have a little chat.

 

[False Sense]

If Smash's goal is to include the most relevant/important characters from a given series, then who is more deserving? An additional supporting character (Dixie), or the foremost series antagonist (K Rool)?

This, I would assert, is the issue at the heart of the Dixie-K Rool conversation, since both are certainly deserving in their own rights, and trying to discern which is more deserving is where the true challenge lies (though of course, where I stand on the matter is self-evident).

I would probably say that a villain is more likely to get a third slot of the series over a secondary sidekick. Just looking back at past Smash games, the pattern I notice for larger series is usually main protaganist -> main side kick -> main antagonist -> something else.

 

[StupendousMike]

I thoroughly enjoyed DK64. I began gaming with the N64 era, so I played many of the collect-a-thon platformers (DK64, SM64, Banjo-Kazooie, etc.), along with the other choice First-Party Nintendo and Rareware games (among others).

DK64 in particular had vibrant visuals (for the time), a delightfully cartoony atmosphere, highly diverse missions and tasks, an excellent soundtrack (composed by the great Grant Kirkhope), and had a lot of stuff to collect, which satisfied my completionist drive (you complete the game at 201%, for crying out loud!).

I suppose that the things you are exposed to in your formative years will mold your palette. I still enjoy platformers, having played other collect-a-thon and more pure platformers (like Spyro and Crash), and I continue to enjoy the mainline Mario platformers. Were I to play the original DKC games, I'm sure I would enjoy them, but my heart lies with the N64.

The 16-bit era was my bread and butter, but I don't think that has anything to do with my distaste for DK64, or collect-a-thons in general. I LOVE Banjo-Kazooie and its sequel, they're two of my favorite games of all time. DK64 just doesn't do anything for me.

And if you haven't played the original DKC trilogy, may I ask... what on earth are you waiting for?

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Isn't it possible that Dixie has been planned, but hasn't been completed yet? She may be a low priority, last-minute clone choice that will be finished after the higher priority cast is completed. We've still got up to 10 months before the game is released, and Sonic shows that the Smash team can pump out a character pretty quickly at the last minute.

 

[SmashShadow]

I don't get why people think Dixie not being revealed along with TF hurts her chances. Why would they reveal Dixie before having the person she's most connected to on the roster? I really can't imagine a Dixie trailer with no Diddy Kong. And no, they wouldn't have revealed them both at the same time. There's nothing that leads us to believe that they would do that for any characters. Now, an argument may be made for Diddy not being revealed sooner but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of her being revealed at E3 or even being a secret character.

 

[BKupa666]

Someone said it's a coincidence that DK's Banana Slamma became his Giant Punch in Smash? I'll call BS on that now, for a reason beyond the cartoon airing during Smash 64's development and having a cult fanbase in Japan.

Sakurai says: He's white! Is this Yeti DK?

Yes. Yes it is.