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K. Rool's Kremling Kutthroats: PM BKupa666 for an Invite to the New K. Rool Thread

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I have no idea. But they made Duck Hunt a character. If they can give him a moveset, they should be able to find a way to give Toad one.
No of course, I would love to see Toad as a character. I think it could definitely be done. I'm just thinking it would be hard to fit Toad in with Sakurais idea of every character needing a "special" theme to fit Smash.
 

BowserK.Rool

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Not trying to be a troll here but I thought you guys might like to use this picture against all our K. Rool haters and detractors if(and when) he gets confirmed to be playable ssb4 dlc. :bee:

lays enemies.jpg
 

BKupa666

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You know, speaking of sales, I wonder how many people are truly buying Smash DLC? I've thought about this in terms of the "legitimacy" of DLC fighters as it is. In the online echo chamber, it's easy to assume that every Smash 4 owner is buying every fighter, but what about everyone else? The mystical casuals who make up most of the game's sales are probably way more hit or miss in terms of buying (none of my casual relatives have any DLC fighters for example).

The idea is to get K. Rool exposed to as large an audience as possible, so hopefully if he gets released, Nintendo will start promoting the DLC fighters more so that can happen.
 

TheGalaxyKnight

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Honestly I have a hard time even assuming it well sell well. It looks rushed, especially graphically. I know it's taking a graphical hit with its (incredibly wonky) two screen approach with gyro controls (both screens run at 60fps so credit must be given where its due) and its story mode apparently only lasts the length of a "feature length movie" so just a couple hours (Miyamoto stated that beating Star Fox Zero takes the same time as it would watching a movie). It also has no multiplayer because of the dual screen mechanic, online or otherwise (not even local that we know of but this...no, this isn't changing, it's too close to its planned launch and they have no reason to keep it a secret). Let's break it down:

Pros:
  • Runs at 60fps on both screens
  • Several different vehicles to choose from
Cons:
  • Game looks visually bad, especially for one at the end of a console's lifespan and one that should be a big ticket item for Wii U owners. It just looks rushed (with Star Fox Adventures and Star Fox Assault, both on Gamecube, looking better graphically than a game late into a gen two gens later)
  • No multiplayer at all
  • Very short campaign length (figure about 2-3 hours at best given Miyamoto's statements)
  • Gryo controls were said to be very wonky at E3 (though I think they mentioned they can be turned off to be control stick based) and you'll end up looking at only one screen or the other anyway
Look, Miyamoto, this is NOT the game the Wii U needs right now. I know your options are limited in trying to convince the (small) install base of the Wii U they aren't being abandoned, but Star Fox Zero is not the game to do this with! I hope like hell you aren't selling this at a $60 price tag. I get that Star Fox 64 and older games were played repeatedly to get high scores and times and such but this **** isn't going to work in this day and age unless it's a $20 max E-Shop title, and even that price might be stretching it. Your insistance on making the GamePad relevant killed this game's promise by disabling multiplayer and reducing the visual detail of the game drastically when it should be pushing the Wii U's boundaries. Just a rushed alimony payment and probably the last we'll ever see of Star Fox again if this bombs, which it likely will at this point if it keeps getting the press it has been (which it rightfully deserves).

Rant over, I have a lot of issues with this game. And I apologize, since this is a thread dedicated to K. Rool and I'm here whining about Star Fox Zero.

Edit: I will likely get flamed for this, but if there's one game I need to stick to my guns with about my complaints, it's SFZ
Oh. Well I do recall Miamoto saying that multilayer could be patched in if enough people want it. Who knows! Mabey SF0 will surprise us...:b:
 

Powerman293

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You know, speaking of sales, I wonder how many people are truly buying Smash DLC? I've thought about this in terms of the "legitimacy" of DLC fighters as it is. In the online echo chamber, it's easy to assume that every Smash 4 owner is buying every fighter, but what about everyone else? The mystical casuals who make up most of the game's sales are probably way more hit or miss in terms of buying (none of my casual relatives have any DLC fighters for example).

The idea is to get K. Rool exposed to as large an audience as possible, so hopefully if he gets released, Nintendo will start promoting the DLC fighters more so that can happen.

I think the general rule for DLC is that not everyone owning the base game is gonna buy the DLC. So we're not gonna have K Rool sell as much as the 3DS and Wii U versions combined or at the level of Smash 3DS sales. That said, Smash is a popular game, so that percentage of owners buying the DLC could be a lot higher then other games.

He'll probably sell at least in the hundreds of thousands though. Which I don't really consider a failure, if you're taking $4-$5 for 500,000 people, that is a tidy sum.
 
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dangeraaron10

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Trying to peer into the abyss that is the "casual" Smash playbase is something neither side can really do, whether it's Kutthroats stating that the casual crowd are far too unorganized to all vote for a singular character or someone like PushDustin (love you for all your translations so don't take this as a slight) saying that K. Rool, Isaac, and other popular fanbases aren't nearly as popular as they think they are as they are dwarfed by this mythical casual voter base, assuming they vote regular or at all, and there's unlikely to be any Champion of the Casuals. We really can't know either way until we see Ballot results which we simply are not going too. They would be fools to show off the results untouched because there is always the chance they pass over the most popular pick if they are impossible for Smash. There will be some degree of cherry picking, with Nintendo first parties being more favorable, even if it's someone like K. Rool they pick, he would be picked over someone like Kratos, Master Chief, Goku, or Shrek because K. Rool is actually a video game character AND Nintendo first party.

When I say "casuals" I don't mean that as a slight either, just those who aren't hardcore Smash enthusiasts that gather on sites like these to "campaign" for characters, vote multiple times on different IPs or give enough of a crap to try to convince others IRL or over the web to vote for their character.

Oh. Well I do recall Miamoto saying that multilayer could be patched in if enough people want it. Who knows! Mabey SF0 will surprise us...:b:
They should already know people want multiplayer. This is frickin' 2015. Online or bust in this day and age, especially in the West. No one outside of dedicated Nintendo fan friends will actually gather in a space to play their 3DSs next to each other when other games can do so over the internet from great distances, the days of couch co-op is GONE. It's not coming back, not like its hay day even though it happens every now and then.

And even if they DO patch in multiplayer, it needs to be perfectly functional online. Local only isn't going to do them much good. Patching in online multiplayer sounds like something they wouldn't consider no matter how much sense it makes or how much people ask for it. Not to mention, how are they going to get this to work locally anyway? The game makes you use the GamePad which is 1 per Wii U. Is there going to be Pro-Controller support? Whey even frickin bother with the 60fps GamePad if it works fine with the Pro-Controller, the vastly preferred form of controller on the Wii U? Is it going to be something stupid like having others control almost-off screen NPCs in the campaign?
 
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BowserK.Rool

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You know, speaking of sales, I wonder how many people are truly buying Smash DLC? I've thought about this in terms of the "legitimacy" of DLC fighters as it is. In the online echo chamber, it's easy to assume that every Smash 4 owner is buying every fighter, but what about everyone else? The mystical casuals who make up most of the game's sales are probably way more hit or miss in terms of buying (none of my casual relatives have any DLC fighters for example).

The idea is to get K. Rool exposed to as large an audience as possible, so hopefully if he gets released, Nintendo will start promoting the DLC fighters more so that can happen.
Well, DLC is meant for the hardcore fans like us afterall, right? so I don't think it really matters much. The game selling to everyone I think is what really counts for Nintendo.

So far I think that's just what's happening, everyone on the internet and miiverse is mentioning him and again, all the original dkc games and dk spin offs with him in it are now on the e-shop for everyone to enjoy.
 

dangeraaron10

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Some days the Smash Support Thread has their Miyamoto Hate Day.
What makes you think I hate Miyamoto? All I'm saying is that SF0 has a lot of bone headed decisions. Are we not allowed to voice dissent? Must we all be brain dead consumers which gleefully open wide as things are shoved into our mouths irregardless of what contents there of?

Miyamoto is a genius when it comes to software, and like @ BowserK.Rool BowserK.Rool pointed above, without Miyamoto we wouldn't have our beloved franchises. I like the guy and I like Nintendo, but sometimes my jimmies get a little rustled on some of their decisions as of late.

Edit: In fact, I think SF0 could have been a GREAT game if they didn't try to justify the existence of the widely panned GamePad. They wouldn't have had to reduce the textures, the graphics, the details. Ousting multiplayer was an unrelated (but another bone headed) decision unrelated to the GamePad, but at least the logistics of split screen multiplayer wouldn't go right out the window without the GamePad being required! That and the game is just RUSHED.
 
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Xzsmmc

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I view Miyamoto and Sakurai like I do George Lucas. They made some incredible stuff and I've got nothing against them personally, but as of late they've made plenty of decisions that confuse/frustrate me like you wouldn't believe.
 
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BowserK.Rool

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What makes you think I hate Miyamoto? All I'm saying is that SF0 has a lot of bone headed decisions. Are we not allowed to voice dissent? Must we all be brain dead consumers which gleefully open wide as things are shoved into our mouths irregardless of what contents there of?

Miyamoto is a genius when it comes to software, and like @ BowserK.Rool BowserK.Rool pointed above, without Miyamoto we wouldn't have our beloved franchises. I like the guy and I like Nintendo, but sometimes my jimmies get a little rustled on some of their decisions as of late.
Thanks. Pretty much the only Nintendo guy I seem to have a problem with latley is Sakurai, a lot of his decisions recently have made me more bitter than hype. I'll forgive him though on almost everything if he adds K. Rool.
 
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BKupa666

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I view Miyamoto and Sakurai like I do George Lucas. They made some incredible stuff and I've got nothing against them personally, but as of late they've made plenty of decisions that confuse/frustrate me like you wouldn't believe.
Maybe this is the voice Sakurai will give K. Rool in line with his vision. :troll:

 

InsaneStar

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"Fatso, is it? You should choose your last words more carefully."
I guess I should've add that. Rewriting the quote that I'll update later in the pic.

"Fatso!? Look WHO's talking, you overgrown turtle! You should choose your last words more carefully if I were you!"
 

BowserK.Rool

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Oh wow, Miiverse must be flooded with K. Rool imagery by now, which is an exciting prospect.
Though ironically, Sakurai will only choose the ones that don't have K. Rool in them like he always has for these contests. He's either extremley biased against him or is saving him as a surprise for dlc.
 

EdgeTheLucas

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I beat Donkey Kong Country 2 today, a couple of hours ago.

I now have firsthand experience of why K. Rool must have been so memorable. His boss fight in this game was INSANE. And hard. I got like 7 or 8 Game Overs, he took me like an hour and a half of tries to beat.

I've been ignoring K. Rool moveset posts here for a while now because I wanted to experience K. Rool's boss fights for myself first, but I see now why you guys clamor and rally around the King. Going by his DKC2 boss fight ALONE his moveset potential is ENORMOUS. That weird gun thing you guys keep calling the blunderbuss that shoots cannonballs, gases, and flames (and it can suck you up, too) is simply one of the neatest weapons of any Nintendo villain ever. Just imagining K. Rool using the thing in Smash is an amazing prospect-- shooting guys with spiked cannonballs with those weird spiral-y trajectories (to differentiate them from King Dedede's Gordos or Bowser Jr.'s own cannonballs), stunning fighters with his gases, vacuuming others up as a grab or Kirby-like suction attack, dashing around like mad with the blunderbuss fire as a recovery, and even turning invisible would all make him super fun and unique without really being super-gimmick-y like a lot of Smash 4 newcomers (not that they're bad, but I like the more straightforward fighters a lot more). This isn't even taking into account his first boss fight (cannonballs from the sky, and tossing his crown a little) or his third and fourth, owing just how creative K. Rool can be going only by his DKC 2 boss fight.

I might have joined a while ago, but admittedly it was more out of a thought process sounding like, "Well, even if I don't know much about him, it still feels pretty wrong to leave K. Rool out of this game." Now I've REALLY joined, however, as now I'm pretty hyped for the prospect, having fought the guy myself. Firsthand experience goes a long way.
 
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dangeraaron10

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Though ironically, Sakurai will only choose the ones that don't have K. Rool in them like he always has for these contests. He's either extremley biased against him or is saving him as a surprise for dlc.
The latter is an interesting concept. Do you believe Sakurai would actually think that "You know, if I pick a King K. Rool related picture then my surprise K. Rool DLC will be spoiled so I should avoid doing so?" To be honest I think all this is JUST for the exposure just to show Nintendo "Hey, we want K. Rool and a Mii Costume won't cut it!" even if they have no intention of picking any K. Rool related image. In fact I don't think they will pick ANY image designed to campaign for character DLC as to not pick favorites. This is merely for exposure. But hey, if Sakurai DOES end up picking something K. Rool related (which he won't) then prospects look good!

I beat Donkey Kong Country 2 today, a couple of hours ago.

I now have firsthand experience of why K. Rool must have been so memorable. His boss fight in this game was INSANE. And hard. I got like 7 or 8 Game Overs, he took me like an hour and a half of tries to beat.

I've been ignoring K. Rool moveset posts here for a while now because I wanted to experience K. Rool's boss fights for myself first, but I see now why you guys clamor and rally around the King. Going by his DKC2 boss fight ALONE his moveset potential is ENORMOUS. That weird gun thing you guys keep calling the blunderbuss that shoots cannonballs, gases, and flames (and it can suck you up, too) is simply one of the neatest weapons of any Nintendo villain ever. Just imagining K. Rool using the thing in Smash is an amazing prospect-- shooting guys with spiked cannonballs with those weird spiral-y trajectories (to differentiate them from King Dedede's Gordos or Bowser Jr.'s own cannonballs), stunning fighters with his gases, vacuuming others up as a grab or Kirby-like suction attack, dashing around like mad with the blunderbuss fire as a recovery, and even turning invisible would all make him super fun and unique without really being super-gimmick-y like a lot of Smash 4 newcomers (not that they're bad, but I like the more straightforward fighters a lot more). This isn't even taking into account his first boss fight (cannonballs from the sky, and tossing his crown a little) or his third and fourth, owing just how creative K. Rool can be going only by his DKC 2 boss fight.

I might have joined a while ago, but admittedly it was more out of a thought process sounding like, "Well, even if I don't know much about him, it still feels pretty wrong to leave K. Rool out of this game." Now I've REALLY joined, however, as now I'm pretty hyped for the prospect instead having fought the guy myself.


Welcome aboard OFFICIALLY, Kutthroat!

Now, this is why so many of us want K. Rool so badly. His moveset potential is enormous in DKC2 ALONE, let alone his more iconic DKC1 and even some DKC3 moves. Using only 3 games and ignoring his DK64 and PAON stuff entirely (but include those for even MORE completely canon moveset goodness) gives you numerous scenarios and options. I honestly think that a Kaptain K. Rool character using only moves from DKC2 would MORE than suffice for a fully featured Smash character.
 
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BKupa666

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This was a GameFAQs post describing an angle I don't remember seeing brought up in here before.

I think it was the exact opposite. Sakurai went to Nintendo and was like, "hey, the fans want K. Rool, you remember, from the old Donkey Kong games? Yeah, they want him in, so I was gonna put him in Smash." But the directors at Nintendo know that Retro is planning on a dramatic return for the Kremlings in the conclusion to their New Super Donkey Kong trilogy, and that K. Rool showing up before that in Smash Bros. first would ruin the impact of his return there. So Nintendo asks Sakurai to choose someone else, and save K. Rool for later.
Think it could have been the case?
 

dangeraaron10

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This was a GameFAQs post describing an angle I don't remember seeing brought up in here before.



Think it could have been the case?
I hate the idea of waiting until I'm 30 to play as K. Rool in Smash 5 just because they didn't want to "ruin the moment" in a hypothetical K. Rool return to Retro's DKCR games. Also I feel like this would be unlikely. If anything his appearance as a Smash character should be a prelude to his grand return to Donkey Kong and to hype up the character, making him relevant again, and getting more people besides dedicated fans buzzing over DKCR3 with the Kremlings.

It makes more sense to have the cross promotion. It certainly didn't stop Roy in Melee. And that was before his debut game even released. Greninja was decided on before his game released (though it came out before Smash did).

This -could- be possible but I'm not sure if I would be just as pissed at this as much as Sakurai simply not liking him, but at least this possibility could get K. Rool in in the future instead of never.
 

Arcanir

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Seems like straw-grasping to me, I highly doubt Retro or Nintendo would put their foot down and say "No! We wanted to use him first in this game instead!" to Sakurai. If anything, I feel that they'd use the opportunity to have both Retro and Sakurai market the character's return rather then restrict it to just one game, especially since the character would likely do well DLC-wise and having the final game in the trilogy backing that would up interest in him.
 
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ChosenZelos

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This was a GameFAQs post describing an angle I don't remember seeing brought up in here before.



Think it could have been the case?
I don't think so. -IF- what Retro has been working on is DKCR3 with the return of the Kremlings, I'm surprised we haven't seen it. It's been a year and a half since tropical freeze, and I'd be assuming they'd still be using the same engine. I think they would have shown it off by now? Probably some sort of trailer at E3 would have been plausible.

I think they're working on something else sadly.

However, if they are working on Donkey Kong Country: Kremlings Krash 9001, It wouldn't be such a stretch for them to want to promote K. Rool through Smash. I'm holding out hope for a direct in which that title is announced then we get the FWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH SHWINGGGGGG! and K. Rool's trailer happens immediately after.
 

Banjo-Kazooie

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This was a GameFAQs post describing an angle I don't remember seeing brought up in here before.



Think it could have been the case?
Reminds me of Sonic having his first crossover with Mario in the Olympic Games. Smash Bros Brawl would have been the perfect place to settle things between the two mascots, but they chose to do it at the gymnastics court instead. Kind of a ruined opportunity if you ask me.

In my opinion, Smash Bros. is the best place to bring back characters and test if people are interested in them. Remember that Pit was reborn there as well. EDIT: Good old :4greninja:'d on the Pit comment.

But indeed, as far as theories and "excuses" go. Its better than the common size and relevancy arguments.
 
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D

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But they went ahead and brought Pit back in brawl.
Then later on we got uprising.
Not the same situation.

If it weren't for Pit being in Brawl, we wouldn't have had Uprising.
The hypothetical case being presented is that K. Rool's return to DKC is already in the works prior to K. Rool's potential addition to Smash.
 

TallT

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This was a GameFAQs post describing an angle I don't remember seeing brought up in here before.



Think it could have been the case?
I don't think that's why we received the costume. This is just me personally, but I think the costume was used to gauge how popular K. Rool really is. It's one thing for people to go out and vote (sometimes 5 times) in a ballot and campaign for a character, and another thing for that same number of votes received to equal the number of people who will go out and buy that character.

I think this is Nintendo saying--

Nintendo: We hear you guys in the ballot and all over social media loud and clear, but now we want to see if your fanbase is as big as it is loud. If you really want King K. Rool then put your money where your mouth is and buy this costume for the character you wanted, and if the sales are high enough then we will give you the real thing.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately and it seems like something a business would do to insure they receive the best profits possible. Making characters are a huge investment of money, time, and resources so it would make sense to take precautions before making such a big investment.

I'm probably going to receive some opposition on this viewpoint, but I think the best thing we can do for the King right now is buy the costume.
 
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cothero

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I don't think that's why we received the costume. This is just me personally, but I think the costume was used to gauge how popular K. Rool really is. It's one thing for people to go out and vote (sometimes 5 times) in a ballot and campaign for a character, and another thing for that same number of votes received to equal the number of people who will go out and buy that character.

I think this is Nintendo saying--

Nintendo: We hear you guys in the ballot and all over social media loud and clear, but now we want to see if your fanbase is as big as it is loud. If you really want King K. Rool then put your money where your mouth is and buy this costume for the character you wanted, and if the sales are high enough then we will give you the real thing.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately and it seems like something a business would do to insure they receive the best profits possible. Making characters are a huge investment of money, time, and resources so it would make sense to take precautions before making such a big investment.

I'm probably going to receive some opposition on this viewpoint, but I think the best thing we can do for the King right now is buy the costume.
You've got a point, buddy.
 

ShinyRegice

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This is just me personally, but I think the costume was used to gauge how popular K. Rool really is. It's one thing for people to go out and vote (sometimes 5 times) in a ballot and campaign for a character, and another thing for that same number of votes received to equal the number of people who will go out and buy that character.

I think this is Nintendo saying--

Nintendo: We hear you guys in the ballot and all over social media loud and clear, but now we want to see if your fanbase is as big as it is loud. If you really want King K. Rool then put your money where your mouth is and buy this costume for the character you wanted, and if the sales are high enough then we will give you the real thing.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately and it seems like something a business would do to insure they receive the best profits possible. Making characters are a huge investment of money, time, and resources so it would make sense to take precautions before making such a big investment.

I'm probably going to receive some opposition on this viewpoint, but I think the best thing we can do for the King right now is buy the costume.
I also thought about something like that, if they release K. Rool after the costume, then there's not much incentive to buy it afterwards, unless you still want to make your Mii dress up as this character even after the real deal releases. In other words, if they still plan to release K. Rool later, then they're looking for short-term profit with this costume. Assuming they're planning to release K. Rool as a DLC character later, then the costume is also a way to create hype among the fanbase by giving them something new to talk about, as I really doubt that Nintendo was caught off-guard by the reactions to its reveal, I think they overall expected it.

Dang, writing this makes me want to buy the costume, because if I don't buy it before K. Rool eventually releases (assuming he does), then I'm never going to buy it. If Nintendo does an above average profit with this costume before K. Rool even releases, then the fear of not selling it after the actual K. Rool releases will become more or less moot point, as all costumes naturally lose most of their selling power several months after their release anyway. I'm not sure if this theory is real, but I think it's worth investing on the kosplay either way, as even if it doesn't mean K. Rool's proper arrival in Super Smash Bros. it will show to Nintendo that the character is worth bringing back in other games at least.

Writing this also makes me want to know whether the K. Rool costume sold more than the average Mii costume overall. I should open a new thread in the Smash Wii U discussion board, named "Which DLCs did you buy?"
 

TallT

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If Nintendo does an above average profit with this costume before K. Rool even releases, then the fear of not selling it after the actual K. Rool releases will become more or less moot point, as all costumes naturally lose most of their selling power several months after their release anyway. I'm not sure if this theory is real, but I think it's worth investing on the kosplay either way, as even if it doesn't mean K. Rool's proper arrival in Super Smash Bros. it will show to Nintendo that the character is worth bringing back in other games at least.

Writing this also makes me want to know whether the K. Rool costume sold more than the average Mii costume overall. I should open a new thread in the Smash Wii U discussion board, named "Which DLCs did you buy?"
I'm sure Nintendo isn't worried about if the costume will sell after K. Rool's release since they made costumes for both Link and Samus. Also, I highly recommend you buy the costume if you haven't done so. It's only a few cents.

I think making a thread like that is a good idea it would help us understand what people are buying.
 

BKupa666

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Yeah, which costumes actually sold better than others is something to consider, and pitiful costume sales in general may even be a reason they made a costume for such popular character at all. I've seen a ton of people taking pictures of the thing on social media, and think the list of other costumes that sold as much or more is probably pretty small...Link, because Link is stupidly popular with a lot of online people, maybe one or two of the Mega Man ones and Inklings? It's tough to imagine better sales for generic animals or even side characters from Xenoblade and Mother.

Of course, way, way more people would buy an actual character K. Rool than a costume, and Nintendo should know as much.
 
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