Just 'nother Mafia game | Game over, town wins

[#HBC | J]

This is strange to me. Are you saying that about calling any post "fake", or are you just saying there's not enough yet to claim the post was fake or not?

The latter. Obviously posts can be faked, I just don't think there is enough conclusive evidence to denounce his post as fake when I see the other side of the coin being just as likely.

 

[Orboknown]

1sg took pity on our souls.
Reading in a second

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

That was regarding your **** garden. That, and I wanted to not be on mobile when I made an actual post.

What I find weird is that you decided to vote for him without saying anything first. Normally this wouldn't matter, but you voted him to L-1.

 

[Kaladin]

What I find weird is that you decided to vote for him without saying anything first. Normally this wouldn't matter, but you voted him to L-1.

Yea, I didn't realize it was l-1. Such a small game. Part of the reason I unvotef is there isn't anything concrete enough for an actual hammer/lynch.

 

[Orboknown]

Alright, if it's strictly enthusiasm then the point ends there at null n dead since enthusiasm isn't something you can measure town and scum on.


Mmm not really. The point of the question "Why not Koopa" is to get Maven to elaborate by directly comparing two slots that have extremely similar contributions (you asked about someone's meta, Kaladin asked about sometone's meta) and get him to explicitly state why he picked one to say at the time over the other. He could've just as easily said "Koopa", so I wanted to see why he said "Kaladin".

If I were to have said you were town though, why would it have been odd to counter with that opinion?



No, not really. Asking what my meta is is a care-tell, in that he cares about the game as either alignment, but that's the most he's given us so far.

Do you?



That'd be appreciated. I think we're all half-waiting on that solid 7th man so we can actually say "Towniest and scummiest" and mean it for the whole cast.

I didnt, it just seemed like the way you said it you saw a case for that side.

Initial thoughts on page 1:

Maven's approach to Kaladin is comparatively worse than Kaladin's response. I see no importance by antagonizing Kaladin in such the way he did and the vote immediately after isn't even really all that great if we're even speaking in RVS standards. Kaladin looks more confused than guilty and Maven's whole pressure doesn't really sit right with me. Dislike maven alone for this page. J still null even if he voted maven which I think was a decent one to say the least. Other players who posted on this page don't leave me a lasting impression.

Initial thoughts on page 2 (yes this will be how I format this):

TKK's first post gives me bad vibes, mostly because it's the type of post usually made by a scum who just wants to provide content without having the means to actually scumhunt. I am aware that the day has barely started, but talking about voting mechanics where it isn't even prevalent just seems rather pointless. So far in the day all he's done is make a joke, and now this. Would say as somewhat of a stretch that Cyber's post afterwards wasn't two partners agreeing on a moot point.

Side note: TTK's #43 isn't all that good either. Too anxious for his own good.

FoS: TheKingofKoopas

I know maven will tell me that his first interaction with Kaladin was RVS but I still don't like the means that he is going about town-reading Kaladin for. Lack of assurance and the whole "is it me or Kaladin's post the most townie" doesn't make me feel better about him on top of the fact that he shows hesitance in his previous statements by immediately saying "not that he is townie." That doesn't really make any sense and I'm surprised J didn't pick up on this as it's quite literally a contradiction.

Initial thoughts on page 3:

Maven continues to leave a bad taste in my mouth. He's playing very sloppy and his first post confuses just as much as the one he made about Kaladin in RVS. If you're going to say 'yeah I did all that intentionally for reactions' (which is what it pretty much boiled down to without all the unneeded posturing) then the least you can do is make something out of it. Instead, maven somehow manages to change his mind again in the span of ~10 posts and say that Kaladin is null. The conclusions he's reaching right now do not line up with what he is saying.

I look at J's posts and think: "wow, what a J post. that's something J would do, is make that post." That's pretty much a very sarcastic way of saying that I think J isn't of concern right now and I like to wait see what he does over what he's saying. I will say he seems to be somewhat pressuring maven even if it's not in the same angle I am.



The post itself is null but what came out of it isn't. Look at what I've said about him instead of just taking it at face-value. Tell me what you think.

And..that's it? Easiest catch-up I had to do.

Focus is TTK and Maven, slightly town-reading Kaladin and the Cyber slot and the rest I have no real opinion about or I will be withholding it until I find something relevant.

Vote: Maven89

i dont think scumaven is that sloppy.

Wow, I see you're actually serious about this attempt.

#HBC | J , Orboknown

We're done for the day folks, vote Soup and lets be on our way.

Not even kidding.

100% not kidding.

Not yet

Okay, basic thoughts are actually I am kind of curious about watching Soup vs. Maven go further because I will say I am stuck on the fence with that because, meh. I just got through a game where Soup shot up like a billion red flags, but here they are barely peaking any scummy intent for me. Maven, I had subtle problems with in the beginning because of the weird stuff, but we talked about that and I will say that his answers sated me. That was mainly because they were logical though. The argument makes me feel meh about both sides and not really either is looking especially towny regarding it.

I'm also curious about Ditzy and Kaladin because Ditzy seems super sure about this soup read and it feels weird on how confident he is and then Kaladin likes Soup's post when he was just saying in larger form what he called earlier "just janky play". But now he unvoted soup over being defensive?

I actually would look more into the Ditzy/Kaladin duo because something reeks there and I am trying to put my finger on it.

Koopy and Orbo are still null since most of Orbo's posts have been "I can't be here so I'll post later" and Koopy is just null.

Someone start being towny please! This is actually becoming harder with the more posts that keep happening.

its been a bad week for ****.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Okay, basic thoughts are actually I am kind of curious about watching Soup vs. Maven go further because I will say I am stuck on the fence with that because, meh. I just got through a game where Soup shot up like a billion red flags, but here they are barely peaking any scummy intent for me. Maven, I had subtle problems with in the beginning because of the weird stuff, but we talked about that and I will say that his answers sated me. That was mainly because they were logical though. The argument makes me feel meh about both sides and not really either is looking especially towny regarding it.

I'm also curious about Ditzy and Kaladin because Ditzy seems super sure about this soup read and it feels weird on how confident he is and then Kaladin likes Soup's post when he was just saying in larger form what he called earlier "just janky play". But now he unvoted soup over being defensive?

I actually would look more into the Ditzy/Kaladin duo because something reeks there and I am trying to put my finger on it.

Koopy and Orbo are still null since most of Orbo's posts have been "I can't be here so I'll post later" and Koopy is just null.

Someone start being towny please! This is actually becoming harder with the more posts that keep happening.

You are pretty much my only town read. You know, besides myself
Jokes aside, this is pretty much how my reads are.

I'll be gone for the rest of the night because of an essay I procrastinated on.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

J, you're misunderstanding me. it's not RVS, and it is not that initial post. Maven has focused on the whole 'but it's RVS blah blah' and I've said 3(?) times that isn't the case, and it is all intention. Did that post have something to do with it? Yes, but it's not just that post. It's the general feeling I've been getting from him, it's what he has done and what he has been saying. I called out those contradictions because I saw them, but again, Maven has made this argument into 'but i didn't do that so you have no point and it was RVS!!' when in reality the whole point is that I think in general that he has been scummy due to his actions from RVS and thereon, which I have pointed out. I don't want you to sideline this and give me just a relative sigh in the form of a post, but actually look at it.

This will sound like I'm rubbing salt on the wound but..

You don't want this game to turn out like Blazblue, do you?

 

[Orboknown]

Why doesn't his intention of being rvs ****ery ring more true than whatever you're going at? (Sorry cant remember even though injust read it

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i was saying rvs sucked
What about it made you think I was being "anxious"?

Did you not read the post I made as to why I felt it was anxious?

I was replying to Maven and Kaladin's reaction to J putting Maven at L-2, and then never busted his balls about it afterwards.

Okay, you did. What did you get out of that?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Why doesn't his intention of being rvs ****ery ring more true than whatever you're going at? (Sorry cant remember even though injust read it

Because he has done other stuff aside from it. I did not make a post about that one action, I made a post about many actions and the conclusion that I reached because of it. Yeah, his """rvs""" post was part of it, but it's not all of it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i dont think scumaven is that sloppy.

Elaborate?

 

[Orboknown]

I forget whoch game it was, but recently he rolled scum (indy maybe?) And i remember him playing in a very calculated manner.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I forget whoch game it was, but recently he rolled scum (indy maybe?) And i remember him playing in a very calculated manner.

Please Orbo, I'm really bad sometimes too but let's not having meta wholly attribute as to why someone is town or scum. I won't accept this answer, and I really want people to be more vocal about what they think instead of feeling shy or unsure. I don't care even if it's just smallest fraction of a lead, or a remote feeling, put it out there, and listen to what people are putting out there too.

 

[Maven89]

Soup right now I'm not sure I even understand your argument against me. It seems to be.

1. I applied scum pressure to Kaladin in our opening posts
2. I gave a town-read on Kaladin for no reason
3. I waffled on that town-read
4. I flip-flopped on the town-read
5. I over-reacted to you saying this

My point is that none of these points actually happened

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I mean, we can keep going back and forth about this but the fact remains that you will never admit you did anything wrong no matter how I put it. You're going to say that you didn't contradict yourself and you're gonna use all of these things you didn't do and that will just lead to an argument that neither of us benefit from.

So I ask you this: Why did you vote me? You don't sound sure that I'm mafia if you have all these questions.

 

[Orboknown]

Please Orbo, I'm really bad sometimes too but let's not having meta wholly attribute as to why someone is town or scum. I won't accept this answer, and I really want people to be more vocal about what they think instead of feeling shy or unsure. I don't care even if it's just smallest fraction of a lead, or a remote feeling, put it out there, and listen to what people are putting out there too.

I'm not saying it cant be hes scum
Im saying based off what ive seen its not something im going to go in at this minute. Label it as intrigued but not convinced

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm not saying it cant be hes scum
Im saying based off what ive seen its not something im going to go in at this minute. Label it as intrigued but not convinced

Now this is a fair reasoning and all, but I want to see you get your feet wet regardless. I know it's not conclusive (to you) but the answers aren't just gonna come to you if you just wait for them. That's what I what I want to see more than anything. I want town to make more risks instead of sitting idly and letting scum do it too. Even in the perchance that I was wrong on Maven, I am at least getting something out of it. You aren't getting anything out of this by being idle, and neither am I.

 

[Maven89]

Someone summarize why people think I'm scummy because I don't think Soup is going to do it

If it's actually what I listed then it's a basic matter of "Did Maven say this or not" and that's a pretty simple game to play

 

[Maven89]

from.

So I ask you this: Why did you vote me? You don't sound sure that I'm mafia if you have all these questions.

I explained my vote in the same post I voted. You're by far my strongest mafia read and so I'm voting you, I also don't know for a fact that you're scum though so I'm grilling you because that's how mafia is played.

This is a real problem I'm having, Soup. Some of your questions to me sound...real forced. Like, I know you've been playing mafia far longer then I have, so I don't know how the concept of someone being null but a town lean is strange to you. I don't understand how someone asking questions to the person they're voting on page 5 of Day 1 is strange to you. This is not unusual but incredibly normal behavior, to the point that explaining it is the same as posting a newbie guide to mafia. I'm going to do that right now so you can see what I'm talking about.

Since mafia can also do some pro-town actions, and generally will want to do some townie actions, you can't automatically give anyone who does any townie-actions an automatic town read. Since the game starts with RVS, you also can not normally get a real read on anyone until you get to the real meat of the game. So if it's still RVS but you think someone is acting townie, then the person would be a "null town-lean". If you feel he's the only one whose played like that, then he would still be the "most townie" despite the fact that it's RVS.

You also can almost never be positive the other person is mafia. Normally there's always a little doubt, and sometimes you're going to have wrong reads. So the very best thing to do in mafia is to remain open minded and keep all options open while still weighing them individually. So the point of me asking you questions, despite voting you, is me trying to see if I'm wrong.

 

[Kaladin]

Vote: Soup

I have a higher opinion of you then to believe you'd really believe that. RVS starts with joke posts. Me and Kaladin already joked earlier in the thread that I was confirmed scum before the rolePms even went out. When the day started we continued it. Then I said J's avatar is making me sexually confused.

Soup comes in saying this is me pressuring Kaladin with scum motivation and that saying it's "just RVS" is an excuse.

Has Soup read mafia games before? He has. Does Soup understand RVS? He does. What does he think I'm pressuring Kaladin for? "scum pressure"? What does that even mean when nothing else is going on? Me and Kaladin were the only people that had posted.

Does Soup really think this is a valid point? I don't think so

So that's the vote.

How long has Soup been playing mafia? You have a point here.

Soup, you made a terrible push against me that showed a basic lack of even knowing what's going on, as your first post. You also jump on the easiest target available based on what's going on and do so for garbage reasons. I'm responding because it's town to shut this crap down and judge how you react to it

HMMMMMM Perhaps there's a reason you're the easiest target?

Vote: Soup

See, a 7th player always clears things right up rofl.

No but seriously. Soup rolled scum again.

Look me in the eyes and tell me you believe anything you're reaching for against Maven right now.

Your entire 124 is faked, and clearly looking for reasons to take initiative instead of actually reading thread. You're just posturing at the lowest hanging fruit in thread (the player who tried "a thing" and it didn't work at all).

hm.

Honestly, you can't call something a joke post if you make a post like #81 explaining how you were just trying something called ****seed or however you called it. You can't say 'yeah I was joking and didn't mean it' when you clearly were trying to imply that you were attempting to get something out it. That's poor on your part if that's not what you meant but that's how I'm taking it.

I agree with this.

Quoting your post again:

Were you joking about this too?

Yeah.

Maven has focused on the whole 'but it's RVS blah blah' and I've said 3(?) times that isn't the case, and it is all intention. Did that post have something to do with it? Yes, but it's not just that post. It's the general feeling I've been getting from him, it's what he has done and what he has been saying. I called out those contradictions because I saw them, but again, Maven has made this argument into 'but i didn't do that so you have no point and it was RVS!!' when in reality the whole point is that I think in general that he has been scummy due to his actions from RVS and thereon, which I have pointed out. I don't want you to sideline this and give me just a relative sigh in the form of a post, but actually look at it.

So it's this vs the below

Soup right now I'm not sure I even understand your argument against me. It seems to be.

1. I applied scum pressure to Kaladin in our opening posts
2. I gave a town-read on Kaladin for no reason
3. I waffled on that town-read
4. I flip-flopped on the town-read
5. I over-reacted to you saying this

My point is that none of these points actually happened

This is a real problem I'm having, Soup. Some of your questions to me sound...real forced. Like, I know you've been playing mafia far longer then I have, so I don't know how the concept of someone being null but a town lean is strange to you. I don't understand how someone asking questions to the person they're voting on page 5 of Day 1 is strange to you. This is not unusual but incredibly normal behavior, to the point that explaining it is the same as posting a newbie guide to mafia. I'm going to do that right now so you can see what I'm talking about.

How long has he been playing mafia? That's a good point. Maven, you've at least partially convinced me Soup is eating from the **** garden, but I still have my qualms about you, as will be revealed in the following post!

 

[Maven89]

The way I phrased the post as a **** metaphor was a joke. The post itself was not. I think that's pretty clear.

I've been playing mafia for a year and Soup was in my second game and already experienced, so at least longer then me.

 

[Orboknown]

Longer than me.
Less than j

 

[Jdietz43]

Ditzy, my question goes to you for the moment:

Are you seriously serious about what you are saying currently?

I am seriously serious, and if toDay doesn't end in a Soup lynch I will be sorely dissapointed. I feel like Soup's scum is leaking out his bowl and anyone who takes a reasonable examination of it should be able to see the trickles immediately.

 

[Jdietz43]

The latter. Obviously posts can be faked, I just don't think there is enough conclusive evidence to denounce his post as fake when I see the other side of the coin being just as likely.

No. It really seems quite faked. I'll point it out to you harder:

Initial thoughts on page 1:

Maven's approach to Kaladin is comparatively worse than Kaladin's response. I see no importance by antagonizing Kaladin in such the way he did and the vote immediately after isn't even really all that great if we're even speaking in RVS standards. Kaladin looks more confused than guilty and Maven's whole pressure doesn't really sit right with me. Dislike maven alone for this page. J still null even if he voted maven which I think was a decent one to say the least. Other players who posted on this page don't leave me a lasting impression.

Soup pretending he doesn't understand how early game looks as a reason to have reads of any kind to grab some free "I'm here, I have opinions" points.

I want you to go back to Page 1 right now, and tell me what a reasonable level of "opinion" to have from it is. It's not this much.

Initial thoughts on page 2 (yes this will be how I format this):

TKK's first post gives me bad vibes, mostly because it's the type of post usually made by a scum who just wants to provide content without having the means to actually scumhunt. I am aware that the day has barely started, but talking about voting mechanics where it isn't even prevalent just seems rather pointless. So far in the day all he's done is make a joke, and now this. Would say as somewhat of a stretch that Cyber's post afterwards wasn't two partners agreeing on a moot point.

You're really picky for someone reading a part of the game 12 hours after role PMs go out.




Now I'mma do an exercise here, and I want everybody to play along while reading. Here's a post from page 2. I want you all to read it, and think about it and whether it means anything.

This is a pretty crappy RVS.
I'll go ahead and say that there is no scumhammers going on, goons are not good, and J needs to finally accept that IT'S WINTER.

Okay, read it good? Now let's see what Soup said about it.

Side note: TTK's #43 isn't all that good either. Too anxious for his own good.

FoS: TheKingofKoopas

Man, raise your hand if the first thing you thought when your read that was "Koopa is pretty anxious, maybe he's scum?". If you didn't: that's good, because I don't think that's a reasonable thing to say, let alone throw out a FoS over. I guarantee that Soup doesn't actually think this is noteworthy in any way, and instead Soup is looking for reasons to say anything at all to make that first post a little longer.

(I feel more justified saying this when: Jumping ahead into the future when Soup is questioned by Koopa about this exact stance, Soup responds with:

Did you not read the post I made as to why I felt it was anxious?

The fact he didn't just say why and instead checked the question back to his first post which doesn't elaborate pretty much guarantees to me that this comment was entirely worthless to Soup in his own mind before he ever said it. Hence, I call it fake.)

I know maven will tell me that his first interaction with Kaladin was RVS but I still don't like the means that he is going about town-reading Kaladin for. Lack of assurance and the whole "is it me or Kaladin's post the most townie" doesn't make me feel better about him on top of the fact that he shows hesitance in his previous statements by immediately saying "not that he is townie." That doesn't really make any sense and I'm surprised J didn't pick up on this as it's quite literally a contradiction.

Soup admitting he's reaching at random RVS posts, then throwing FUD about it J's way because man, saying you think someone is the towniest to you, but not definitely town once people ask you to clarify in the first day of a mafia game is such a contradiction that we should be worried! Entirely unreasonable filler opinion.

Initial thoughts on page 3:

Maven continues to leave a bad taste in my mouth. He's playing very sloppy and his first post confuses just as much as the one he made about Kaladin in RVS. If you're going to say 'yeah I did all that intentionally for reactions' (which is what it pretty much boiled down to without all the unneeded posturing) then the least you can do is make something out of it. Instead, maven somehow manages to change his mind again in the span of ~10 posts and say that Kaladin is null. The conclusions he's reaching right now do not line up with what he is saying.

I look at J's posts and think: "wow, what a J post. that's something J would do, is make that post." That's pretty much a very sarcastic way of saying that I think J isn't of concern right now and I like to wait see what he does over what he's saying. I will say he seems to be somewhat pressuring maven even if it's not in the same angle I am.

Here's where the fluff comes to a head to what I think Soup's initial posting goal actually was: Talking about Maven's attempt to see if anyone would instantly bite on replacement wifom as a way to get things moving. The first few paragraphs of his intro post are filler lead-up FUD on the slot so he can say "what you did was bad because it didn't work and you couldn't get anything out of it.". Instead of giving credit to the slot for attempting something that failed, he condemns it because ultimately Maven concedes that Kaladin is fairly null, and that meant to him that he "didn't make something of it.". This is scummy to me, even if taken independently of my other points. I don't see a world where Soup comes in to a Day 1 mafia game and sees Maven admitting that his attempt was pretty lame and a wash means that "the conclusions he's reaching right now do not line up with what he's saying". I implore all of you to re-read Page 3 if you think otherwise.

 

[Jdietz43]

You might have not said that you explicitly town-read him, but you're most definitely implying it. I don't see the need for you to doubt yourself in your sentence, and that's a main reason why it's a contradiction. You cannot call someone's actions townie then fold and say 'yeah well he's null.' That doesn't make any sense at all. If he was null, why did you bring it up that you thought he was being townie?



I read, and your intentions (pretty sure I highlighted this) are the reason why I disliked it, regardless if the post itself could be considered null. I know you've played enough to understand the difference between intent and content so I'm not sure how you're tripped up about this and why you've decided to kneejerk in the most scummy fashion you possibly could by misconstruing everything I've said thus far.

Soup continuing to act like he doesn't understand mafia D1 reads, that reads aren't on/off lightswitches, or even what Maven said his opinion on Kaladin was to begin with. In what world does Soup expect Maven have 100% confidence in a town read 2 pages in, and then go on to condemn him for it? (or hold him to the standard that he has a town read to begin with when he really didn't claim one for that matter)


And I know Soup has played enough to know he's causing these reactions by intentionally ignoring context as he posts.

 

[Jdietz43]

J, you're misunderstanding me. it's not RVS, and it is not that initial post. Maven has focused on the whole 'but it's RVS blah blah' and I've said 3(?) times that isn't the case, and it is all intention. Did that post have something to do with it? Yes, but it's not just that post. It's the general feeling I've been getting from him, it's what he has done and what he has been saying. I called out those contradictions because I saw them, but again, Maven has made this argument into 'but i didn't do that so you have no point and it was RVS!!' when in reality the whole point is that I think in general that he has been scummy due to his actions from RVS and thereon, which I have pointed out. I don't want you to sideline this and give me just a relative sigh in the form of a post, but actually look at it.

This will sound like I'm rubbing salt on the wound but..

You don't want this game to turn out like Blazblue, do you?

AtE starts here.

Waiting on that explanation for why we should care about Maven's RVS at all.

I mean, we can keep going back and forth about this but the fact remains that you will never admit you did anything wrong no matter how I put it. You're going to say that you didn't contradict yourself and you're gonna use all of these things you didn't do and that will just lead to an argument that neither of us benefit from.

So I ask you this: Why did you vote me? You don't sound sure that I'm mafia if you have all these questions.

@Underlined: Bro are you even serious right now. Your logic train to turn this around on him here is:
"You must be sure about me if you voted for me in a mafia game."
"Why are you still asking me questions if you're so sure about me?"

That's the most unreasonable thing I've heard from you so far this game. Where can you possibly go with this?

Now this is a fair reasoning and all, but I want to see you get your feet wet regardless. I know it's not conclusive (to you) but the answers aren't just gonna come to you if you just wait for them. That's what I what I want to see more than anything. I want town to make more risks instead of sitting idly and letting scum do it too. Even in the perchance that I was wrong on Maven, I am at least getting something out of it. You aren't getting anything out of this by being idle, and neither am I.

Here comes armchair evangelist Soup, declaiming the evils of our people. It's almost like Laundry is here in the room with me, explaining what Soup's Scumtells are after Blazblue mafia again.

 

[Jdietz43]

Please Orbo, I'm really bad sometimes too but let's not having meta wholly attribute as to why someone is town or scum. I won't accept this answer, and I really want people to be more vocal about what they think instead of feeling shy or unsure. I don't care even if it's just smallest fraction of a lead, or a remote feeling, put it out there, and listen to what people are putting out there too.

Soup, if you want people to be vocal so badly, why haven't you even addressed the fact that I'm already ready to lynch you.

I already know why you haven't attempted to broach the topic: but seems like an oversight in discussion for a town member to make, yeah?

 

[Jdietz43]

Okay, basic thoughts are actually I am kind of curious about watching Soup vs. Maven go further because I will say I am stuck on the fence with that because, meh. I just got through a game where Soup shot up like a billion red flags, but here they are barely peaking any scummy intent for me. Maven, I had subtle problems with in the beginning because of the weird stuff, but we talked about that and I will say that his answers sated me. That was mainly because they were logical though. The argument makes me feel meh about both sides and not really either is looking especially towny regarding it.

I'm also curious about Ditzy and Kaladin because Ditzy seems super sure about this soup read and it feels weird on how confident he is and then Kaladin likes Soup's post when he was just saying in larger form what he called earlier "just janky play". But now he unvoted soup over being defensive?

I actually would look more into the Ditzy/Kaladin duo because something reeks there and I am trying to put my finger on it.

Koopy and Orbo are still null since most of Orbo's posts have been "I can't be here so I'll post later" and Koopy is just null.

Someone start being towny please! This is actually becoming harder with the more posts that keep happening.

@Underlined: It's not a big mystery. I'll give you three guesses who I think Soup's most likely partner so far is here based on when and how Maven went from L-2 on Soup's vote to L-1 in Kaladins and where his read on Maven and Soup is currently wavering.

(But I'd like to keep that for D2 because I'm much more confident in Soup himself to start partnering him up for real)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Oh. I guess I'll respond to captain buzzkill right now.

Soup pretending he doesn't understand how early game looks as a reason to have reads of any kind to grab some free "I'm here, I have opinions" points.

I want you to go back to Page 1 right now, and tell me what a reasonable level of "opinion" to have from it is. It's not this much.

Better to have an opinion than not at all, eh?

Man, raise your hand if the first thing you thought when your read that was "Koopa is pretty anxious, maybe he's scum?". If you didn't: that's good, because I don't think that's a reasonable thing to say, let alone throw out a FoS over. I guarantee that Soup doesn't actually think this is noteworthy in any way, and instead Soup is looking for reasons to say anything at all to make that first post a little longer.

(I feel more justified saying this when: Jumping ahead into the future when Soup is questioned by Koopa about this exact stance, Soup responds with:

?

You're honestly confusing me here ditz. Instead of pretty much making the equivalent of a post that is essentially 'i disagree with soup therefore he's scum!!' you could tell me why you disagree. I even outlined the reason why I disliked it.

The fact he didn't just say why and instead checked the question back to his first post which doesn't elaborate pretty much guarantees to me that this comment was entirely worthless to Soup in his own mind before he ever said it. Hence, I call it fake.)

"doesn't elaborate"

???

[quote="Myself]TKK's first post gives me bad vibes, mostly because it's the type of post usually made by a scum who just wants to provide content without having the means to actually scumhunt. I am aware that the day has barely started, but talking about voting mechanics where it isn't even prevalent just seems rather pointless. So far in the day all he's done is make a joke, and now this. Would say as somewhat of a stretch that Cyber's post afterwards wasn't two partners agreeing on a moot point.[/quote]

Is this not elaboration? So far, it sounds like you're clinging onto a point that has not been thoroughly thought about and your only steam is that I'm playing like I did in Blazblue. Not sure how you're getting that impression at all honesty, I happened to roll town and I feel very relaxed. But I'm just AtEing again aren't I? It's really easy to manufacture a scum-read on someone if you create blanket statements like AtE, but I just think you're misguided and holding onto a really really bad point that will make you look silly in the process.

Soup admitting he's reaching at random RVS posts, then throwing FUD about it J's way because man, saying you think someone is the towniest to you, but not definitely town once people ask you to clarify in the first day of a mafia game is such a contradiction that we should be worried! Entirely unreasonable filler opinion.

No,I was admitting that I know that despite RVS, I did not like his actions. What's with people playing so sloppy lately? Please do not say something that can be proven to be untrue in the exact post you quoted.

I am not going to bother with the rest of what you've said because I've pretty much boiled it down to what you were trying to say, and the only thing I have in response is...

Sorry?

Sorry I don't 100% agree with the way you look at things when it comes to Mafia. Sorry I don't always do what lines up in your book of soup town-meta. Can I be townread now? =)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I explained my vote in the same post I voted. You're by far my strongest mafia read and so I'm voting you, I also don't know for a fact that you're scum though so I'm grilling you because that's how mafia is played.

This is a real problem I'm having, Soup. Some of your questions to me sound...real forced. Like, I know you've been playing mafia far longer then I have, so I don't know how the concept of someone being null but a town lean is strange to you. I don't understand how someone asking questions to the person they're voting on page 5 of Day 1 is strange to you. This is not unusual but incredibly normal behavior, to the point that explaining it is the same as posting a newbie guide to mafia. I'm going to do that right now so you can see what I'm talking about.

Since mafia can also do some pro-town actions, and generally will want to do some townie actions, you can't automatically give anyone who does any townie-actions an automatic town read. Since the game starts with RVS, you also can not normally get a real read on anyone until you get to the real meat of the game. So if it's still RVS but you think someone is acting townie, then the person would be a "null town-lean". If you feel he's the only one whose played like that, then he would still be the "most townie" despite the fact that it's RVS.

You also can almost never be positive the other person is mafia. Normally there's always a little doubt, and sometimes you're going to have wrong reads. So the very best thing to do in mafia is to remain open minded and keep all options open while still weighing them individually. So the point of me asking you questions, despite voting you, is me trying to see if I'm wrong.

My only question to your first paragraph is why you bring this up now and not later. If you thought my questions were 'forced', then why didn't you mention it sooner? The only thing you did beforehand was say that my read on you was crap therefore I deserved to be voted. You did not mention this until I prodded you about it, which is strange to me.

I fundamentally disagree, and the more you explain yourself the more I dislike it. You're gonna fight me on it, and maybe even other will too but I don't believe more words mean better content, even townier. The problem I am facing with you right now that despite all the 'contradictions', despite what I've disliked, what I dislike the most is that I feel like your explanations are convenient. What I mean by this is that you explain when asked. If these are prevalent to you, why do you only take action when you are being confronted? You can put aside everything I've said about you for now, and I want you to just focus on this.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Town's gonna have a pretty tough time winning this here game at this rate if they can't get over their egos and try to cooperate with one another instead of trying to look like they're the hero for calling out all the scum. That ol' Buzkill is hootin and hollerin' while the rest of the peoples are probl'y just gon' watch. I be best suggestin' them walls be kept to a minimum too, otherwise yer just invitin' people to skim because les' face it, nobody wanna read all that.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP:

 

[Jdietz43]

Oh. I guess I'll respond to captain buzzkill right now.



Better to have an opinion than not at all, eh?


?

You're honestly confusing me here ditz. Instead of pretty much making the equivalent of a post that is essentially 'i disagree with soup therefore he's scum!!' you could tell me why you disagree. I even outlined the reason why I disliked it.



"doesn't elaborate"

???

[quote="Myself]TKK's first post gives me bad vibes, mostly because it's the type of post usually made by a scum who just wants to provide content without having the means to actually scumhunt. I am aware that the day has barely started, but talking about voting mechanics where it isn't even prevalent just seems rather pointless. So far in the day all he's done is make a joke, and now this. Would say as somewhat of a stretch that Cyber's post afterwards wasn't two partners agreeing on a moot point.

Is this not elaboration? So far, it sounds like you're clinging onto a point that has not been thoroughly thought about and your only steam is that I'm playing like I did in Blazblue. Not sure how you're getting that impression at all honesty, I happened to roll town and I feel very relaxed. But I'm just AtEing again aren't I? It's really easy to manufacture a scum-read on someone if you create blanket statements like AtE, but I just think you're misguided and holding onto a really really bad point that will make you look silly in the process.

I see, you're applying your paragraph about Koopa's vote quip in #41 as well to #43's anxious comment. I'm discussing where you call #43 anxious, why I don't think you actually feel that way, and that you've dismissed an attempt to clarify it from Koopa once already (if the original explanation was enough, he shouldn't have had to ask). Even if you intended for them to be read together and deemed them "anxious" as a pair, I don't feel that's an observation that's coming from a place that's genuine over trying hard to reach for content. Combine that with the push and vote onto Maven and I get the sense that right from post 1 you're in it for thread control, not actually scumhunting or seeking understanding with those opinions. Why did you feel the need to call them such without acting on it with Koopa rather than just FoS?

No,I was admitting that I know that despite RVS, I did not like his actions. What's with people playing so sloppy lately? Please do not say something that can be proven to be untrue in the exact post you quoted.

Yes, that's the understanding. I pointed out that you started with touching on RVS posts, and moved into pushing "a contradiction" that I don't feel is a reasonable thing for an experienced player acting in Town's interests to get hung up on. Unless you're disputing my opinion to be untrue I don't think we misunderstood, I'm simply scumreading you for it.

I am not going to bother with the rest of what you've said because I've pretty much boiled it down to what you were trying to say, and the only thing I have in response is...

Avoiding responding to my other points won't make them disappear. It takes two to tango, and I'd prefer a dance to a dropkick.

Sorry?

Sorry I don't 100% agree with the way you look at things when it comes to Mafia. Sorry I don't always do what lines up in your book of soup town-meta. Can I be townread now? =)

Request denied. Prove it to me through play, discussion, and intent, asking nicely gets you no gold stars I'm afraid. If you think it's explainable: explain them. If they're already explained: then chances are I've already outlined why I smell scum for it and that's not going to lead to a townread by being left alone.

 

[#HBC | J]

I don't mean to pigeon-hole the day, but I feel like toDay is going to end in a Soup or Maven lynch and I don't really see a better option so I need to really dig into their slots tomorrow when I get the chance.

I will say I dislike Soup's stream of posts that revolve around "Man...town is really gonna blow this? Ya'll need to stop being so ego/blah/blah and listen to me because I'm obviously right." The fact is, that makes me want to lynch him more>not.

That Blazblue comment was cute though. There are no wounds from that game nor any salt to pour there. I kind of find comments like that inherently scummy because of how he posted that.

So until I read more into Maven's/Soup's and even Ditzy's case on Soup, I lean #TeamMaven for this argument.

 

[Maven89]

Kaladin you still owe me those points

 

[Kaladin]

Kaladin you still owe me those points

Going through them right now x)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I was antagonizing you intentionally hoping it would make you be more proactive. All my posts in regards to town and how they're playing is just me trying to motivate people.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Ebwop: post is at J.

I really don't want to respond to ditz because we're arguing semantics, but oh well.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I see, you're applying your paragraph about Koopa's vote quip in #41 as well to #43's anxious comment. I'm discussing where you call #43 anxious, why I don't think you actually feel that way, and that you've dismissed an attempt to clarify it from Koopa once already (if the original explanation was enough, he shouldn't have had to ask). Even if you intended for them to be read together and deemed them "anxious" as a pair, I don't feel that's an observation that's coming from a place that's genuine over trying hard to reach for content. Combine that with the push and vote onto Maven and I get the sense that right from post 1 you're in it for thread control, not actually scumhunting or seeking understanding with those opinions. Why did you feel the need to call them such without acting on it with Koopa rather than just FoS?

You're making (bad) assumptions. The original explanation was not enough by the way, that's why I poised a question even after he explained himself. No? I did not deem them both as anxious as a pair, I said Koopa seemed anxious and the CHP's response to him discussing a moot point wasn't partner-esque. Ditz, I was a making catch-up post. I was posting what I thought based on initial thought. I don't even know what point you're trying to make here about reaching for content..? That's got to be one of the most far-fetched reasons to think someone is scum that I've seen in quite a long time. Couple it in that I was trying to get thread control somehow just trying to make a catch-up post and I'm really scratching my head at whatever the hell you're prattling on about. How did I not try to seek understanding by asking him questions? Please read that more thoroughly or when you're in a state of mind to.

Yes, that's the understanding. I pointed out that you started with touching on RVS posts, and moved into pushing "a contradiction" that I don't feel is a reasonable thing for an experienced player acting in Town's interests to get hung up on. Unless you're disputing my opinion to be untrue I don't think we misunderstood, I'm simply scumreading you for it.

So you're holding me accountable for something that is not relevant to the game? Good to know. Just because you don't understand why I'm doing something doesn't mean that it's wrong.

Avoiding responding to my other points won't make them disappear. It takes two to tango, and I'd prefer a dance to a dropkick.

Your points stink and come from either a lack of proper reading or bad assumptions. You can yell at me blue in the face how I'm ignoring your points but I could very well do the same too. That gets us nowhere, and I'll be honest? I don't really care about your points.

Request denied. Prove it to me through play, discussion, and intent, asking nicely gets you no gold stars I'm afraid. If you think it's explainable: explain them. If they're already explained: then chances are I've already outlined why I smell scum for it and that's not going to lead to a townread by being left alone.

\

I was being sarcastic. I just think you're being silly albeit townie and I figured that my relaxed demeanor would maybe get you to realize that I rolled town instead of going on and on about how you're so sure that I am scum. I'm discussing with you right now and I've playing the game much like anyone else. Don't know what kind of grand statement you're making here. How's the view from the soapbox?

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Okay, you did. What did you get out of that?

Nothing? I just said what I was thinking at the time. It seemed more reckless than a scummy action.

Did you not read the post I made as to why I felt it was anxious?

I see, you're applying your paragraph about Koopa's vote quip in #41 as well to #43's anxious comment.

Let's look at it a different way.

This is a pretty crappy RVS.
I'll go ahead and say that there is no scumhammers going on, goons are not good, and J needs to finally accept that IT'S WINTER.

You're saying that I seem anxious in this post. Rather than just saying "no he's not", let's actually show why.
You'll see I made two mistakes. "There is no scumhammers" and "it's winter." If I were anxious, I would've put more thought into this post and I would've corrected it, but instead, I rushed it and made errors.

J, you're misunderstanding me. it's not RVS, and it is not that initial post. Maven has focused on the whole 'but it's RVS blah blah' and I've said 3(?) times that isn't the case, and it is all intention. Did that post have something to do with it? Yes, but it's not just that post. It's the general feeling I've been getting from him, it's what he has done and what he has been saying. I called out those contradictions because I saw them, but again, Maven has made this argument into 'but i didn't do that so you have no point and it was RVS!!' when in reality the whole point is that I think in general that he has been scummy due to his actions from RVS and thereon, which I have pointed out.

I'm going to list out everything Maven has done in this game so far before you replaced in, and see where it goes from there.

-Joked in RVS about confusing Kaladin and quickly killing him before he has time to think about it.
-Told J he wants glistening man-meat out of the game.
-Said he finds Kaladin the most of a town lean, but at the same time saying there isn't enough to say about it, so null.
-Made a trap trying to get newbie's reactions on a WIFOM post, failed miserably.
-Explained why Kaladin over me, which in a sense was just saying vibes, because Jdietz asked him to elaborate.
-Explained over and over again about the poor trap.

I really don't see anything wrong here. I don't see any semblance of "hidden intentions", especially with the fact that the only reason his "good vibe" read on Kaladin kept getting brought back up was because Dietz kept asking about it.
Your arguments are a big stretch and honestly, your AtE is only making you seem worse.
FoS: Soup
I'm withholding my vote because I'd like to wait and see what others have to say about this post in general before L-1.