JST5, 2 & 3 December, Holland, RESULTS: Amsah 1st, CJ 2nd, EK 3rd, Helios 4th!!!!!!!!

[Helios]

I agree BF. However, this was just a proposal from the sheik players, nothing official. (thank god!)

However, I notice Jeffzor's taken YS off of random, which I find disturbing. Put it back on, ***** =)

 

[rensie nr1]

Helios money match your fox against my peach?
Doraki money match your fox against my peach?
Anyone else who will play his fox against my peach?

 

[Helios]

;________________________________________;

 

[bornfidelity.com]

Helios money match your fox against my peach?
Doraki money match your fox against my peach?
Anyone else who will play his fox against my peach?

I will. 1e MM. ^^

 

[rensie nr1]

Helios what does that means?
And BF is good:D

 

[Kirby Squad]

Why?? Because the Swedish like it? Yoshi's Story is one of the most argued stages to take off the random. So it's only logical for that one to go first.

I like the Japanese Ruleset the most. Name one character that doesn't play normal on FD and KD64? You always get benefits with one or two characters. No stage is completely fair.

And if you really really really want to have more levels on random... I'd suppose you could take Pokemon Stadium since that's the most fair one after FD and KD64... But that's just my opinion...

 

[Helios]

Rensie: It means you're on. How much?

Dave: Let's not make "facts" up on the spot here. Yoshi's Story is to my knowledge considered a fair stage, and believe me, I've seen almost every community there is in smash. I don't see why small edges is so bad compared to ridiculously big edges, they're both extremes. If you take YS off, you might as well take DL64 off aswell, and then there's like PS and FD to play around with. Yippie.

Honestly, there's no reason to limit the number of stages available, unless you consider it too big of an investment to learn how to play the friggin game

 

[Kragen]

Cpt. Zeppo, all right =) €1?

Jeffz0r: I haven't settled anything for it yet. I make sure I have it with me (there isn't any reason why I shouldn't take it), so put me on the list,
AND confirm me for Sunday.

Edit: I agree with the stage list, but I don't have the experience to have influence.
People who do, should have a good discussion, but not on the boards, but via msn/mail/PM/whatever. If it's on the boards, it's not synoptic (overzichtelijk)

 

[rensie nr1]

5 euro? best of 5?

 

[Helios]

Sure thing. I'm also open for challenges. I know Zeppo wanted a match. Who else?

MM list:

Rens €5
Zeppo €?

 

[Kirby Squad]

I want to ^^ Last time I played you was at X-TC3 -_-"

 

[Doraki]

10c mm list

best of 5, I play fox, you pick whoever you want, stage FD first, then loser picks in the 6 neutral stages.

(I can mm with british/swedish/us money too)

Bornfidelity.com
Luma
ProSmasherTim
Darrack ($0.1)
NGCXX
Jeffzor
Aniolas (1 sek)
Swedish CJ (1 sek)
Linkje (Kroket match)
Zeppo
Nnja
Kragen
A-D
Rensie

Zeppo : 11 cent is stupidly troublesome...

***

I'm saying it again, I'm heavily in favor of putting the 6 stages on random (BF,FoD,FD,PS,YS,DL64).

The counterpick list is ridiculously small IMO, no Pokefloats ? (whatever, I'm not going to counterpick those stages, Corneria is campingland now, and I'm not sure I even like Onett as much as I used to...)

 

[Jeffz0r]

last time i talked to jeffzor he said that he will not change the stages because some ppl are whining, so why dont u shut up and play >_>

I'm sure I didn't say it like that o_0

what are the current random stages actually? 0_o

Look at the first page

I agree BF. However, this was just a proposal from the sheik players, nothing official. (thank god!)

However, I notice Jeffzor's taken YS off of random, which I find disturbing. Put it back on, ***** =)

I didn't take it off of random, it wasn't ever on in the first place XD

Cpt. Zeppo, all right =) €1?

Jeffz0r: I haven't settled anything for it yet. I make sure I have it with me (there isn't any reason why I shouldn't take it), so put me on the list,
AND confirm me for Sunday.

Not for Saturday?

Edit: I agree with the stage list, but I don't have the experience to have influence.
People who do, should have a good discussion, but not on the boards, but via msn/mail/PM/whatever. If it's on the boards, it's not synoptic (overzichtelijk)

No, it should be on the boards, everyone should be able to follow and/or participate in the discussion.

 

[Z-N_Freak]

FoD 4 random =O
That stage owns everything, tilts ftw =)

why would YS not berandom =S There isn't anyyhing that does you damage or let you die (there is something that may let you longer survive, but that would be luck most of the times)

YS 4 random to =O

FD 4 random (duh)

Dreamland64 I don't care. I like it, but the wind is annoying ( it really is =X ) though both players have trouble with it and it doesn't do damage so I don't mind. Just skillzzz ftw =O

Battlefield 4 Random (me doesn't play fox, lol )

 

[Down A]

on a more positive note, i agree with the ruleset(stages) and it really doesn't need to be changed. Everybody has 'something' they would like changed but this is al least a really good compromise(nobody gets assraped by it) and there has been plenty reasoning behind every stage.

you can take me off the potential housinglist, i'm allready full as it is right now.

i can bring a cube.

 

[Joanna Dark]

guys, before I go on with arguing for the list we proposed (WE, it means this is a common effort, ok?), at least we proposed something. now, don't come and tell me everything about the "sheik and falco players conspiracy", this is nonsense and this is not gonna make things change. so let's have a serious debate about rules. consider we're SMASH players, not only falco or sheik players.

Now consider this : all we want is to make tournaments more about skills and less about using the rules to win.

does this mean we have to take off stages from tournament rulesets? I'm afraid so.
if we go on playing tournament matches thinking "if I lose, I don't care, I'm gonna pick that mute city stage and win". how can you assimilate skills to that kind of thinking? some would tell me "but you have to use the game ! that's normal". well, I don't agree with that. I really think we should concentrate on the skills and learning abilities we all have. if we play only on those stages during the tournament, people will have to count on thair own skills to win a set. I think this is a very good reason to limit the number of stages. but if the number is limited, it's not because we want the game to be boring. if there were more good stages, we wouldn't have that problem.

but what's the problem? the game is getting boring if you only play on 5 different stages? wtf? When you're having an intense match against a player as good as you, I don't think you can say "duh it's the 10th time today I play on FD, it's boring". to me, the "it's getting boring" argument has no value. intense matches based on skills ARE interesting. who here can tell me the BS vs Ken matches were boring? seriously, they weren't at all, but they were playing only on TWO stages. here we are with 5 stages, for everyone's tastes, and someone talks about boredom? you must be kiddin...

 

[EK]

This tourny is becoming more gay for everyday so i dont know why i did book tickets XD

 

[Jeffz0r]

Kubuu's not coming anymore btw...

 

[Marc]

Ek, as much as I like you, remarks like that SUCK.

All we put forward was a proposal, and you haven't said anything but 'bias bias bias', which is a bull**** argument. Not only that, it's also getting offensive. Do you really think someone like CJ would alter the rules to make him win, instead of doing it because he believes it's more honest that way? We're making an effort here to make things better. Criticizing is always easy, but at least keep it civilized and reasonable, and come up with stuff to improve things! This goes for everyone.

 

[Svampen]

1500 POSTS!!!


DARACK DARACK DARACK DARACK DARACK DARACK DARACK O.o

 

[Z-N_Freak]

@ Joanna

You think it is all about the skillz and some stages will make the game lose skill right?
We play best out of 5 (or 3) on tournemants, so say the first stage is tottaly random and a pure skill match, the one who counterpicks (so he lostthe first match) after that one has a skill @ counterpicking. He wins that match due to the stage. Then the guy who has lost the second match can counterpick himself and abuse the stage, if then the other player wins he may be good after all or the player who was counterpicking, sucks @ counterpicking. If you are bad @ counterpicking, learn it or lose

I don't really see a problem

 

[bornfidelity.com]

I didn't take YS off random, it never was on there

At all the other Dutch tournaments the past years it was, lol.
Nihonjin is mod now, right, so he can make a poll. Just to see how the community thinks about the random stages as opposed to four players making it out for the rest? ^^

 

[TelpeFion]

Seriously, I like the MLG ruleset a lot.

 

[nofx4president]

I agree with BF, there should be a poll. Still don't see why yoshi's story shouldn't be on random. I hate the moving platforms on FoD more <_<

@ princeshadow: sure, how much ^^

 

[Cpt.Zeppo]

Shoe-Ness ditto=done.and teams money match =D,5 euros!
Kragen-Sure,1 euro is fine.
Helios-5 euros?
Doraki-Yeah it is.

OMFG Zeppos 11c/cheap MM List!!

doraki-10c
Nnja-11c?
Svampen-11c
Kragen-1 euro
Shoe-11c ness ditto
Shoe+Sparkie-5 euro
Helios-5 euro?

Ek-MM your marth??
Jadde,Beunhaas + Italians-step it up=D

 

[Nihonjin]

A poll ey?
What should I put in it? (I havn't really been following your discussion)

*Note, this is directed to Jeffz0r, so don't see this as an excuse to post BF XD*

 

[Kragen]

Something in line with: what stages should be on random?

MM:
Cpt. Zeppo €1
Doraki €0,1

 

[Z-N_Freak]

@ Nihonjin

Which stages do you think should be on random?

YS
FoD
FD
DL64
BF
PS

and maybe some other stages (DK64? )

 

[Marc]

In my opinion, it's either the current ruleset or (some form of) our proposal. If our proposal would result into things actually getting worse, by butchering what we already have, then my confidence in this smash community will take yet another blow, which might result into this being my last tournament.

 

[Joanna Dark]

ZN freak, I just don't think counterpicking should be THAT used, because it's less about skills. if your only chance to win a set is to count on counterpick stages, then the tournament is not about skills anymore, not as much as if we have only pretty fair stages.

 

[Player Pink]

uhmm.. yeah i think because CJ is a very skilled player he DOES alter the ruleset for his advantage so that he is even MORE garantueed to win. And BECAUSE he is a very skilled player (and thereby has a lot of inlfuence just like you marc) all the dumb *** (no offense jeffzor) tournament hosters think: OMGWTFBBQ CJ wants this ruleset. Well, since he's such a skilled player and I want to be like him i'll use his ruleset becuase HE just thinks that it's 'balanced'. I don't think it is... but COME ON CJ just CAN'T be wrong... It's that simple and bull**** like 'Would CJ change the ruleset to make him win more or just that it's 'balanced' so that his chance of losing would be bigger after spending 2000 euro's or whatever the price is on a ticket just to get 3rd place here' Well the answer ain't that hard....

And that is how this ruleset is formed. Matt always had the same ruleset form somewhere from DT5 till DT10 with maybe some slight changes but mostly just FoD, FD, KB64, YS, Battlefield and PS on random. And the ability to counterpick which you can turn off because it's 'gay' and unfair (whine whine i lose on some stages) according to some players who don't have a advanced strategy.

EDIT: JD if you have no skills, you will lose yourself on your counterpicks just by the fact that your opponent is more skilled than you (meaning the reason why he won the first game)

 

[Jeffz0r]

And BECAUSE he is a very skilled player (and thereby has a lot of inlfuence just like you marc) all the dumb *** (no offense jeffzor) tournament hosters think: OMGWTFBBQ CJ wants this ruleset. Well, since he's such a skilled player and I want to be like him i'll use his ruleset becuase HE just thinks that it's 'balanced'. I don't think it is... but COME ON CJ just CAN'T be wrong...

Have I changed my ruleset because he wanted me too? NO! So shut up >_>

 

[Luma]

JD u have to know the stages as well, i think this is skill, if ppl just can play on fd than they suck imo

 

[EK]

Okay i think the best rules for this tourny whould be the MLG Rules, its serious and many stages on random even Rainbow ride wich is cool imo^^

 

[Kragen]

I think he said he wasn't specifically talking about you Jeffz0r.

Thruth is that good players/pros want to change the ruleset to their advantage, so they can win.

The rules atm (for those who are too lazy to check):

Random Stages: Fountain of Dreams (banned in teams), Pokemon Stadium, Final Destination, Dream Land N64.
Counterpicks: Mute City (banned in teams), Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Rainbow Ride, Brinstar, Kongo Jungle N64

This is the same ruleset as was made on this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=79106

Check the last page, Marc made a list, everybody else who posted after him agreed with him.
This is still a Dutch tournament, it's Jeffz0r's choice to change it by your comments, if it doesn't so be it.

Edit: to solve the problem that shoe said (Ness is ****ed on YS), it should be possible to ban stages (which is possible after the set starts, pretty weird rule imo).
Besides, because YS is counterpick, and the 1st stage is random, Ness won't have the trouble to have a chance to fight on YS.

 

[Jeffz0r]

I think he said he wasn't specifically talking about you Jeffz0r.

That was obvious...

 

[Kragen]

I read from your post that you were offended.

 

[Jeffz0r]

I was. You said he wasn't talking to me specifically, but it was obvious he was.

 

[The_Doug]

I'd like to see MLG rules also. This includes the "best of 11" set incase two players need to play each other more than once.

Can't confirm yet as I won't be buying tickets for a bit longer; could miss out on a good deal.

Amsah are you teaming with Tyrone?

 

[Jeffz0r]

I'm pretty sure Amsah is teaming with CJ.

EDIT: Jody (Metalazo) won't be coming at all anymore. He has no money because he bought for 2000 euro's worth on plane tickets for next year ;_;