Yeah, make the right move. The proposed "we play sheik or falco" stage list is stupid, there's no need to change the current one. As long as the broken stages are banned, everything's fine.
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JST5, 2 & 3 December, Holland, RESULTS: Amsah 1st, CJ 2nd, EK 3rd, Helios 4th!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Jeffz0r
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Svampen
Smash Ace
Ryuker
Smash Lord
Agrees, I vote for the current one not the sheik and falco conspiracy >.>
As if we're the only ones agreeing with the proposal... At the moment I only see Marth players (boohoo, no Yoshi's Story) + Helios whine. For example, no one seems to notice Peach loses a valuable counterpick (Mute City) too, but I guess Peach players aren't so oblivious to reason and are fine with this ruleset.
Aniolas
Smash Ace
I'm with Helios and Ryuker, no Sheik and Falco conspiracy!
No, peach can manage easily with these stages too, although she doesn't benefit as much as say falco or sheik. However, YS is not that bad of a stage, really, and in my opinion all it does is EVEN things out.
Besides, I don't mind playing on stages like Mute City or DK64. They don't benefit my character, but they crave knowledge of the game, of the stages, and that's an aspect of the game that I embrace and support.
Just playing on a few select stages kills variety in this game. Finally, we'll all end up playing the same characters, using the same tactics. I know Marc loves the cc downsmash, but what if EVERYONE did that? Wow, I'd sooo quit this game
Besides, I don't mind playing on stages like Mute City or DK64. They don't benefit my character, but they crave knowledge of the game, of the stages, and that's an aspect of the game that I embrace and support.
Just playing on a few select stages kills variety in this game. Finally, we'll all end up playing the same characters, using the same tactics. I know Marc loves the cc downsmash, but what if EVERYONE did that? Wow, I'd sooo quit this game
Newsflash, the top 5 characters are already used the most BY FAR and that hasn't changed at all throughout rulesets. As for variety, not even that many stages disappear.
Being randomly killed by the barrel on DK64 does NOT crave knowledge of the game. The fact I'm saying that about one of my own counterpicks has to account for something.
And yes, more people using my tactics would make for a nasty blood bath. ;p
Aniolas, we need arguments, this isn't some random democracy.
Being randomly killed by the barrel on DK64 does NOT crave knowledge of the game. The fact I'm saying that about one of my own counterpicks has to account for something.
And yes, more people using my tactics would make for a nasty blood bath. ;p
Aniolas, we need arguments, this isn't some random democracy.
I'm fully aware of which characters are being used in tourney play, thank you very much. All I'm saying is that cutting the number of available stages down to 4 limits variety, thus it limits the way a set can be played.
Several stages + Advanced Slob Picks makes this game soo much more diverse, and last time I checked, that's a good thing.
Besides, there are stages with far less "random things" than those that you propose thay neutral. As far as I'm aware, Poke Floats for instance has a set routine which it follows without change. Sure, you can fall through certain pokemon, but you can also fall through Pokemon Stadium in several places, and there's no arguing that Battlefield has some of the worst edges in the game. The wind on DL64 can push people off platforms while they're trying to perform certain moves, thus actually killing them. How very neutral
Several stages + Advanced Slob Picks makes this game soo much more diverse, and last time I checked, that's a good thing.
Besides, there are stages with far less "random things" than those that you propose thay neutral. As far as I'm aware, Poke Floats for instance has a set routine which it follows without change. Sure, you can fall through certain pokemon, but you can also fall through Pokemon Stadium in several places, and there's no arguing that Battlefield has some of the worst edges in the game. The wind on DL64 can push people off platforms while they're trying to perform certain moves, thus actually killing them. How very neutral
Faab
Smash Ace
I still wonder why FoD is on random select, the chanse im picking ganon in my first match will be about 2% since the random platform movement completely destroy's ganon his game. And why isn't yoshi's story on random actually? there is really nothing wrong with that stage. Dont give me those crap excuses like "OMG random shyguys and clouds" cause it does not have a big effect on the match. Battlefield has stupid edge's so might wanna take that out of random select aswell. Not saying it should be banned but just don't put it on random select.
ivootjes(nr18)
Smash Lord
Marc, who is the one whining in here. You're the one always complaining about stages.
Marth does have an advantage at yoshi's story, but as far as I now it isn't that big of an advantage against the other toptiers.
Marth vs Sheik: Sheik has an advantage above marth at any stage, and so does she at yoshi's story
Marth vs Fox: quite a fair matchup at yoshi's story. I'm pretty sure that this matchup isn't this fair at a stage like Final Destination, where Marth can easily chainthrow fox to death.
Marth vs Falco: hmm, falco has a hard time killing marth at any stage, and this is a little bit easier at yoshi story, but not enough to give him the advantage. I think that marth does have an advantage over falco, but not enough to say it's broken.
Marth vs Peach: I'd say this one is even, at least i know that rens likes playing marths at yoshi's story.
It's 5 actually. ;pI'm fully aware of which characters are being used in tourney play, thank you very much. All I'm saying is that cutting the number of available stages down to 4 limits variety, thus it limits the way a set can be played.
Several stages + Advanced Slob Picks makes this game soo much more diverse, and last time I checked, that's a good thing.
Besides, there are stages with far less "random things" than those that you propose thay neutral. As far as I'm aware, Poke Floats for instance has a set routine which it follows without change. Sure, you can fall through certain pokemon, but you can also fall through Pokemon Stadium in several places, and there's no arguing that Battlefield has some of the worst edges in the game. The wind on DL64 can push people off platforms while they're trying to perform certain moves, thus actually killing them. How very neutral
Advanced Slob Picks only benefits people who use more than one character -> the Swedes
Catching stages in a system is fun and all, but NEVER flawless. I've already explained my reasoning for all stages when we debated it for our own ruleset. The first thing is that you shoudn't be 'fighting the stage'. The second thing is minimizing randomness. The answer you come up with to those things depends on priority and deciding what 'breaks' the game and what doesn't. Perfect rulesets don't exist, but we can try to get as close as possible.
Linkje
Smash Lord
I think if you want anyone to be satisfied you need to take FoD of random and yoshi's story on random...
Fixed ?
Fixed ?
I've already explained in detail, multiple times, why Yoshi's Story is bad. The thing I get from you, is that you actually want more stages turned off than what we proposed, right?
Sure, I can see why "minimizing randomness" is something to strive for, but from my point of view most stages on the counterpick list don't suffer all that much from randomness. "Fighting the stage" is MORE of an effort on, say, FoD or Battlefield than it is on YS.
Limiting the number of stages to 4 or 5 is NOT a step towards the perfect ruleset, but rather to one that is linear, repetitive and boring. And sheik biased, may I add
Limiting the number of stages to 4 or 5 is NOT a step towards the perfect ruleset, but rather to one that is linear, repetitive and boring. And sheik biased, may I add
And you're the one always... the fact you need to resort to getting personal doesn't make your argument any better. And for the last time: THIS IS NOT JUST MY OWN OPINION, WHILE I DO AGREE, I AM ALSO JUST THE MESSENGER. I can't help it that other people prefer to let me do the talking.
As for what you said about Marth, the fact it's mostly Marth players who disagree says enough. With the current ruleset, there is obviously no instant-win stage, but that doesn't mean it is completely balanced either.
Faab
Smash Ace
that's exactly what im saying yeah, the first match should be on a level as fair as possible, after that just counterpick a stage where you got a bigger advantage. FoD is at the moment the biggest random stage available to pick, battlefield is not that randomly and i don't really care about that stage, but as linkje said putting yoshi's story on and FoD off will satisfy more people.
YS is NOT an instant win for marth. It may have been back in 1894 when you used to place high marc, but things have changed since then 
No, it's not MORE, definitely not. I can imagine the issues people have with Battlefield, and to a lesser extent Fountain of Dreams, though. Won't Marth players cry even more if those two stages disappear as well though?
ivootjes(nr18)
Smash Lord
tell again why yoshi's story is bad, i don't get it.
Dont say stuff like, Marth owns, clouds are random, i don't like shy guys
I don't want stages taken OFF the random select list, I want to play on MORE stages. Thus, having a list of 6-7 random stages and the rest open for counterpicking would be the best option.
1894 would be 6 months ago, but I'll let that slip.
With the current ruleset, there isn't really an instant win situation anymore, agreed. That doesn't mean certain characters still have advantages BASED ON STAGES, added to the advantages they already have tier-wise.
With the current ruleset, there isn't really an instant win situation anymore, agreed. That doesn't mean certain characters still have advantages BASED ON STAGES, added to the advantages they already have tier-wise.
It's very small (to all sides), the edges have slopes and are gay. And yes, the cloud and Shy Guys SUCK.
ivootjes(nr18)
Smash Lord
This arguments is pretty personal too, so don't say i'm the only one doing that.
Faab
Smash Ace
let's see when was the last time i have seen shy guys interfering with a match, hmmm. ah yeah. never.
Besides what's wrong with the slopes? Hasn't been affecting my games since i started playing. And yeah i have been playing for 2 years now.
Besides what's wrong with the slopes? Hasn't been affecting my games since i started playing. And yeah i have been playing for 2 years now.
That was not a personal attack.
Example:
Personal attack: Ivo is a smelly Hobbit who I discovered having hot sex with Faab in the bathroom at Reffie's house.
Not a personal attack: The only who seems to disagree is Ivo.
Example:
Personal attack: Ivo is a smelly Hobbit who I discovered having hot sex with Faab in the bathroom at Reffie's house.
Not a personal attack: The only who seems to disagree is Ivo.
ivootjes(nr18)
Smash Lord
Ban chainthrow destination, if we'll do that i'm alright with banning YS
ivootjes(nr18)
Smash Lord
Marc says: Helios stop whining
Ivo says: You're the one whining in here
Marc says: Personal attacks don't make your arguments better
ok...
Ivo says: You're the one whining in here
Marc says: Personal attacks don't make your arguments better
ok...
Lag due to Shy Guys has interfered often enough with either my own or my opponent's game to warrant banning it.
There's a difference between saying 'YOU are always the one whining blabla' and 'the only ones who are whining NOW (CURRENTLY disagree)' which does NOT imply some annoying tendency to ALWAYS disagree and/or whine.
:3
Cypher
Smash Apprentice
Whaaaaaaaaaaaat!!! BAN FINAL!? You guys are going nuts! IT'S MADNESS, MADNESS I SAY!!!
Player Pink
Smash Apprentice
that i'm not on SWF non stop to INSTANT react on things doesnt mean there are other people who don't agree... I strongly disagree with your ruleset and so do beunhaas, Joey and Reffie. shy guy lag is both an advanatage as a disadvantage.... and if you see your opponent trying to land on the cloud... what do you do?? do you wait at the edge for him to recover and then whine about the randomness?? Not me... I'm ready to kick his balls into his throat...
A-D
Smash Journeyman
noooo..It's not banning FID,But banning Marth's Chaingrab on Falco and fox on FID..i think ?
shoe
Smash Ace
Ever been Ness? These matherfackers fly into your Pk-thunder. I think I've been facked over by shy-guys more often then that I've been killed by battlefield edges.
A-D
Smash Journeyman
@ Doraki...10 Ct MM Fox ditto !
Kirby Squad
Smash Lord
FID???? Fountain If Dreams?? F Inal Destination???
nofx4president
Smash Journeyman
probably F Inal Destination because his post is about chaingrabbing
Luma
Smash Lord
last time i talked to jeffzor he said that he will not change the stages because some ppl are whining, so why dont u shut up and play >_>
nofx4president
Smash Journeyman
what are the current random stages actually? 0_o
(Prince) Shadow
Smash Lord
wants MM against exalador, zn-freak timmy en brasje so i can play MM against savior, jefz0r, Nnja en BF ^^
and a yoshi ditto against Svampen show me your darack *hopes I didn't said something gross >.<*
and a yoshi ditto against Svampen
show me your darack *hopes I didn't said something gross >.<*bornfidelity.com
Smash Master
I'm in favour of banning FD as well. And that's from a Falco player!
Anyway.
I like Yoshi's Story. As a Falco player. **** Marth being gay there because of the instant tipper, because well, the instant tipper might be gay, but so are Falco's lasers, Fox's uthrow-uair, Peach's dsmash etc, but hey - that's just Smash.
**** the randomness of the cloud, it's not random. If you're too lazy to remember when the cloud will be where, that's not our problem.
And BULLOCKING **** on the Shy-Guys. One falls through Pokemon Stadium more often than that their game is ****ed up by Shy-Guys so leave them out of it.
If you're bringing up the slopes, the edges of Battlefield are WAY more gay then those of Yoshi's Story.
So why ban Yoshi's Story again? A GOOD reason?
*the above is not just towards Marc, but to anyone in favour of having Yoshi's Story off random*
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MOST IMPORTANT:
There should be an International Discussion vote so that all players can decide on the stages which all players will have to play. Having three Sheiks and a Falco player decide the stages for the rest of Europe seems a bit like total bullocks to me.
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