Jigglypuff's Spacing

[Metatitan]

When i was talking to Bigfoot a few days earlier, he said that the difference between Edrees and the rest of the peach players was that Edrees played smart while the others were simply floating hitboxes. I thought about it and realized this applies to most jigglypuff players as well: there are too many jigglypuffs who float around in the air spamming arials and trying to hit u with them, essentially floating hitboxes. While watching old videos of bowyer i noticed his spacing was perfect with his directional empty shorthops (he avoids d3's f tilt with it). On wifi doing this is close to impossible but people should at least try. We can be more than floating hitboxes people. WE. CAN. SPACE!

and heres the footage i was talking about (bowyer ur spacing is too pro)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOycCGlD_hw

 

[PND]

I agree, too many players pressure too heavily without thinking of what they're doing, or why they're doing it. It works fine in low to mid level play, but we can't merely be a ball of bair, we need to think about what we're doing. Our goal is to limit their good options, and attempt to punish poorer results while constantly having a safe retreat option. Always bear this in mind, our pressure does not lead to moves hitting and spacing, our spacing leads to our pressure and moves hitting.

 

[Metatitan]

I agree, too many players pressure too heavily without thinking of what they're doing, or why they're doing it. It works fine in low to mid level play, but we can't merely be a ball of bair, we need to think about what we're doing. Our goal is to limit their good options, and attempt to punish poorer results while constantly having a safe retreat option. Always bear this in mind, our pressure does not lead to moves hitting and spacing, our spacing leads to our pressure and moves hitting.

well said. get some footage up u lazy hoe be an example for the others <3

 

[san.]

I'm not sure of what you are trying to say in your post exactly. Do you mean that too many people who use jigglypuff are inexperienced, or there are many players that are just playing her wrong in general? At higher levels of play, you may be able to space very well, but so will your opponent, too, especially when forced to approach. Improved spacing simply comes after getting better... I think...

I think that a passive aggressive style of playing (very close, but *just out of reach, putting lots of pressure, yet respondent to opponent's movements and staying in control) is pretty effective against most characters, yet we can't be like Luigi.

 

[Metatitan]

I'm not sure of what you are trying to say in your post exactly. Do you mean that too many people who use jigglypuff are inexperienced, or there are many players that are just playing her wrong in general? At higher levels of play, you may be able to space very well, but so will your opponent, too, especially when forced to approach. Improved spacing simply comes after getting better... I think...

I think that a passive aggressive style of playing (very close, but *just out of reach, putting lots of pressure, yet respondent to opponent's movements and staying in control) is pretty effective against most characters, yet we can't be like Luigi.

unlike ike (this is just what i assume since u main him) jiggs has more than excellent control over her full and shorthop fast falling. meaning she can outspace things like d3's f tilt like bowyer did. the only mistakes i saw bowyer do was staling his fair too much and getting bored (it was so obvious he that he wanted the match to be done with). ike relies on his huge sword range to space, along with some directional shorthopping (why not all chars can do it). jiggs requires much more precision in her spacing and i think that because this spacing is near to impossible online, 90% of jiggs players just float around in the air using arials to see if they can get a hit in. passive aggressive is a "style" but a person's character should be composed of many styles and use these styles as mindgames

 

[PND]

I really should get matches up of me, lol. I just never use the recording station. >_>

I just friendly or play my matches on the nearest station. If I can get a replay, I save it, and never hear from it again XD

One thing: If you do approach from the ground, be wary. Walking is too slow to do anything, and dash shielding has a bit of pre lag. Make sure you're timing your dashes well or you will get owned. Your dash grab is your spacer, learn the range of that move. It has to be second nature if you need to take someone on the ground.

 

[san.]

Well, if I wanted to make what ifs for every possible event that could come up, that would be a fortress of text, so I just tried to concise my words into something. I know it's not merely passive aggressive but just used as a base =) I don't know anything about mindgames, but just keeping your options open and limiting your opponents'.

Ok, I somewhat understand what you mean by the 90% statement. I never really play too many jiggs mains and I'm the only one who at least uses her as my secondary, so that's why I wasn't too familiar with it. I usually hold in my aerials more often than not.

But both characters still need to be very precise IMO

 

[PND]

The problem with passive aggressive is the opponent can often just walk a step or two away from you, and and soon as you give chase, tilt to shut down your spacing. It's a lot more complex than just bairing at the tip of her range and reverting to where you came from, you have to be able to adapt on the fly and know when to retreat and when to press on. That kind of thing only comes from experience, really.

 

[Noobicidal]

90% of jiggs players just float around in the air using arials to see if they can get a hit in.

Guess I must be part of the 10% that do not. I know you're all sick of me referencing Ganon, but I feel that it applies here.

It's a bit of an overstatement, but the play styles of my 'Puff and Ganon are quite similar. I usually force initial approaches on their part, empty short hop and SHAD like a *****, and I'm generally quite patient while playing. Ganon is a character built for reading your opponent and punishing accordingly. Neither character can just throw out attacks and expect to go anywhere with them. Ever since I've started using him as a secondary (split-main status now), my Jigglypuff game has gotten MUCH better. Spacing is a must for Jigglypuff, and Ganon to me was the key required to unlocking this mysterious necessity.

 

[san.]

The problem with passive aggressive is the opponent can often just walk a step or two away from you, and and soon as you give chase, tilt to shut down your spacing.

You mean they just walk away and then ftilt/uptilt or something? I'm not quite understanding this little section, sorry.

I don't want to get in a discussion about word choice or anything but I just meant to play the right way against people. Keeping distance, yet being within the range of opportunity. I'm not new to jigglypuff or anything.

I believe spacing naturally comes just from playing with your character, gaining experience, and just generally being good at the game, and if you can't space, something's severely wrong.

 

[PND]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Some characters can just retreat and tilt you if you try to re space them. Perfect spacing is hard to maintain when you have such little range. You have to be able to adapt on the fly, and try and pressure them to edge, where they can't do that any longer. But that's stage control, not spacing.

 

[Metatitan]

precise spacing is also why im able to fight yoshies so effeciently, most puffs get ***** by his usmash but i normally know how to avoid it

 

[MrEh]

Spaced Dairs are serious business.

 

[Metatitan]

Spaced Dairs are serious business.

more like precise bairs to outprioritize theirs and wavelanding to get past predictable camp game

 

[Popertop]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Some characters can just retreat and tilt you if you try to re space them. Perfect spacing is hard to maintain when you have such little range. You have to be able to adapt on the fly, and try and pressure them to edge, where they can't do that any longer. But that's stage control, not spacing.

spacing is a form of stage control.

 

[Kishin]

I'm a newb to Jigglypuff spacing. Just a question though, in the beginning of that video, couldn't the DeDeDe shield grabbed a couple times? He PS a bit of the approaches. Although, I see that the video is back in April so it's probably not a good representation. New video please.

 

[Metatitan]

I'm a newb to Jigglypuff spacing. Just a question though, in the beginning of that video, couldn't the DeDeDe shield grabbed a couple times? He PS a bit of the approaches. Although, I see that the video is back in April so it's probably not a good representation. New video please.

u do realize bowyer had the best jigglypuff in brawl period correct? i honestly dont see any puffs today that compare.... get your go**** footage up mike!

 

[Kishin]

I'm not questioning the Jigglypuff's skill at all. Brawl has changed a bit after 11 months. I thought an up to date video might be more useful.

 

[illinialex24]

I'm not questioning the Jigglypuff's skill at all. Brawl has changed a bit after 11 months. I thought an up to date video might be more useful.

Ask him to pick up Jigglypuff again. He might consent......

 

[PND]

I dunno, watching his vids I'm pretty sure that there are better puffs now. I'd say Jiggernaut right now, from seeing him firsthand, is better than Bowyer was in the day.

But that's hard to prove. And I mean, Bowyer was that good back then, imagine if he stuck with Jiggs to this day? OMG ****.

I gotta get some vids up, ya.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i think i already do that now, i don't really aerial at air hoping to hit anymore unless im wasting time w/ Bair in the corner. i think im almost grounded alot....unless its snake them i only land for 10 frames max XD.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

thats why i dont use bair as much as a lot of u guys, many jigglys try to bair repeadedly with all eight of their jumps, watching this im like <<..... honestly bair is a very tedious move that should be used in a situation where u cant switch directions or need to hit ur oppnent while facing backwards. sorry to say this but bowyer over uses bair, hes got the spacing of jiggz foxtrot and bair spacing, but jiggz has so much mor than bair. she has sixt ****in jumps, jiggz can reach places no other character can reach due to her slow falling ability, create a unique meta game that not even metaknight can follow(well in the air at least). u players limit urselfs to hitboxes and WOPs when u dont realize how important jiggz DI andhigh air game are.


and meta, stop sucking bowyers ****, lain played pretty badly in that set, and bowyer did barely anything but bair pound and sheild run for grab game <<

 

[illinialex24]

thats why i dont use bair as much as a lot of u guys, many jigglys try to bair repeadedly with all eight of their jumps, watching this im like <<..... honestly bair is a very tedious move that should be used in a situation where u cant switch directions or need to hit ur oppnent while facing backwards. sorry to say this but bowyer over uses bair, hes got the spacing of jiggz foxtrot and bair spacing, but jiggz has so much mor than bair. she has eight ****in jumps, jiggz can reach places no other character can reach due to her slow falling ability, create a unique meta game that not even metaknight can follow(well in the air at least). u players limit urselfs to hitboxes and WOPs when u dont realize how important jiggz DI andhigh air game are.

Are you high right now?? Seriously?? You seriously think uair is better than bair?? Dude, Jigglypuff doesn't have eight jumps.... Bair has around 3 times the hitbox of uair and has it for 2 frames, while uair has a tiny hitbox for a few more and is much less maneuverable and much more punishable.

No, Jigglypuff's best move is bair. To say uair or dair is pretty dumb. And she has six jumps, I have no idea how high you are right now to be posting this.

I'm sorry but I have to call you out on this. Its pretty utterly nonsensical at best.....

 

[GeneralWoodman]

i meant 6 i posted eight on accident <<
and ur one of those jigglys who uses all six jumps to bair instead of spacing them, sad

 

[illinialex24]

i meant 6 i posted eight on accident <<

You did post 8 twice dude. And you spelled it out both times. Which is a pretty big mistake. And trust me, Lain doesn't screw up that often. Watch him and he's pretty insane. Which is why he places so high. Consistently.

And Woody, there's also the fact that I use bair wisely... I don't use all six jumps unless I am practicing on a sandbag or sandbagging. But bair is 10 times better than uair. Given your history, please stop saying stupid ****.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

the number 8 just stuck out in my mind, and i just watched lain a minute ago, he played ally a lot smarter than this crap
and unban me from the chat i wasn't spamming anything just stating my opinion xat bans are supposed to be for chat spammers and ppl trying to ruin the discussion

in the g-reg mirror u used all six jumps with bair 3 times,

 

[illinialex24]

the number 8 just stuck out in my mind, and i just watched lain a minute ago, he played ally a lot smarter than this crap
and unban me from the chat i wasn't spamming anything just stating my opinion xat bans are supposed to be for chat spammers and ppl trying to ruin the discussion

in the g-reg mirror u used all six jumps with bair 3 times,

Thats a Jigglypuff ditto...... Jigglypuff ditto does not equal a normal game. Wow. Learn matchups. Walls of bairs are fairly good on Jigglypuff dittos. You are really embarrassing yourself. If I did this on a Samus, I'd be screwed over. But its not a Samus. Remember that her bair beats all of Jigglypuff's other options except pound.

Please notice that using a wall 3 times is once per stock, and its fairly safe if you use it on a character with no projectiles or higher priority once or twice. This way its hard for him to punish you and he will expect you to use it later when you wont.

 

[PND]

Do I think Uair is good? Yeah, I probably use is more than any other Jiggs out there. Is it better than bair? **** no! Bair is her best move. End discussion.

 

[illinialex24]

Do I think Uair is good? Yeah, I probably use is more than any other Jiggs out there. Is it better than bair? **** no! Bair is her best move. End discussion.

Or to use a Woody example? Is uair a good shieldpoke attack on King Dedede? No. You'll get grab *****.

 

[MrEh]

Don't use Bair on D3. Use rising pound. ^^

WHERE ARE YOUR SHIELDGRABS NOW?!?!

 

[illinialex24]

Don't use Bair on D3. Use rising pound. ^^

WHERE ARE YOUR SHIELDGRABS NOW?!?!

Bair is great. He can't shield grab it. I meant uair for that post, which he can like crazy. Rising pound is good too. He's not fast enough to screw with you enough unlike Peach.....

 

[Metatitan]

woody ur part of that 90% that doesnt space very well...
bair gives the most DI control and if u wanna use puff in a competitive scene then uve gotta play as gay as they do

 

[Maniclysane]

woody ur part of that 90% that doesnt space very well...
bair gives the most DI control and if u wanna use puff in a competitive scene then uve gotta play as gay as they do

Meta, you're part of the 90% that doesn't know the definition, of half the things they say. DI is Directional influence. It's what you do after you've been hit. Quit misusing words. If you ever want to sound intelligent, you need to type as gay as they do.

With that aside, Woody has a really good puff. You bash him, saying it "Only works on wifi" with no reason. I think his Puff would do well, and he's even said he did well at Cot4. You, Meta, have said yourself you have not gone to a tourny.

Don't bash Woody because his style is different. Even if it is less effective, it's another style that can be explored further. It's very similar to Meows style, the only Jigglypuff that is making money off of her.

 

[illinialex24]

Meta, you're part of the 90% that doesn't know the definition, of half the things they say. DI is Directional influence. It's what you do after you've been hit. Quit misusing words. If you ever want to sound intelligent, you need to type as gay as they do.

With that aside, Woody has a really good puff. You bash him, saying it "Only works on wifi" with no reason. I think his Puff would do well, and he's even said he did well at Cot4. You, Meta, have said yourself you have not gone to a tourny.

Don't bash Woody because his style is different. Even if it is less effective, it's another style that can be explored further. It's very similar to Meows style, the only Jigglypuff that is making money off of her.

Manic, he didn't get out of pools at COT4. Meaning he didn't do well. And DI doesn't mean just after you get hit. It means to avoid CG's, avoid getting grabbed and more.

 

[Maniclysane]

Then what about Meow? Woody's style is pretty much based off of Meows style, but with little things thrown in here and there. Meow wins money. He the only Jigglypuff (Besides maybe G-reg and Glick, but they use other chars too) that is doing that well, especially using that "Awful style."

 

[Metatitan]

DI means directional influence, meaning the way u can move back n forth in the air. its not strictly limited to right after u get hit manic.

 

[Maniclysane]

I don't think you're influencing movement. You're controlling it. You don't control your movement after you're hit.

 

[illinialex24]

I don't think you're influencing movement. You're controlling it. You don't control your movement after you're hit.

Yes you do in some ways. Your input drastically changes it. And Meow wasn't using Woody's uair style which is fairly poor. He uses a lot more fair but he doesn't use near that much uair.

 

[lonejedi]

No fighting guys, we don't have to resort to name calling here .

Personally, the best way to space IMO, is to bait. I love how good Jiggs is in the air, so manuverable. You can bait so much with jiggs. You jump in, air dodge back, come back and go in with a fair, you approach pound away, or pound at them then fall back. You should do this with Any character without projectiles, just continousl bait them to come to your first, because jiggs has so many options, you can poke with fair and bair, you can sneak in with a pound, and you can use your nair which stays out for so so long.

 

[illinialex24]

No fighting guys, we don't have to resort to name calling here .

Personally, the best way to space IMO, is to bait. I love how good Jiggs is in the air, so manuverable. You can bait so much with jiggs. You jump in, air dodge back, come back and go in with a fair, you approach pound away, or pound at them then fall back. You should do this with Any character without projectiles, just continousl bait them to come to your first, because jiggs has so many options, you can poke with fair and bair, you can sneak in with a pound, and you can use your nair which stays out for so so long.

OMG YES!! This is what I've been saying for almost a year. Thank you Lone