Jigglypuff-Wario MU export: Redone.

[GeneralWoodman]

Lets Settle Four Fifty Fifty!!! Dat Wayy Ets Even Boaf Wayys Gaiz! =d

 

[*JuriHan*]

lol @ Dina thinking she's a high level player ;.)
I'm pretty sure going even with top wario players means absolutely nothing when you can spam your wifi means noting counterargument all day :/.

I didn't say i was at high level play. Attack my argument instead of myself. Oh that's right, you know what i said was true. ;.)

 

[GeneralWoodman]

I didn't say i was at high level play. Attack my argument instead of myself. Oh that's right, you know what i said was true. ;.)

How would you know if something worked against top level players. Obviously it wouldn't work for you because your not amazing at this game and never was...but if a top level jigglypuff player spaces fair perfectly and combines dash dancing and other spacing techniques...yes, fair will give you priority against any "lean in and out" wario approach.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

is it me or is general woodman kind of a jerk :/

 

[GeneralWoodman]

Jigglypuff mains are supposed to be cocky

 

[Noobicidal]

If your posts have nothing to do with the Wario match up, then do not post here at all. Take your personal vendettas elsewhere.

 

[Exegguter]

I ****in love woody i'm srsly

Anyways 70-30 is a nono 60-40 seems allright why are you guys forgetting wario's fsmash? spacing here is the key to your victory <3 hey, if ur getting bitten alot ur kinda bad =( also what is thiz? 0mgawd Roll0ut dat mofo pwlszz-****? <_<

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

JIgglypuff is just a worse version of Wario that dies at some ridiculously low percentages. I actually think all jigglypuff mains should just pick up Wario it'd be a lot better for yall.

 

[ItoI6]

Wario is different from other high tiers because he cant put up a wall with his bad range, and all he really has is great damage output and mobility. Jigglypuff has one of those and she can make up for the other by outplaying him thats why its 40-60.

About the matchup itself keep him on the x-axis and hit him a lot. and rollout sucks in general lol if ur relyin on it to kill your doin it wrong. and pound bite.

EDIT: Did anyone contact the Warios I wanna hear what they have to say.

 

[Lord Chair]

This thread makes my head explode.

I can't really provide insights in this matchup without a head.

70-30 Wario's favor, cut the crap and stop thinking Jiggs stands a chance.

 

[Noobicidal]

EDIT: Did anyone contact the Warios I wanna hear what they have to say.

Yes, which is why we're starting to get legitimate discussion now.

 

[ItoI6]

A sorta helpful kill setup is FH Dair -> footstool -> rest. If you miss the footstool at least you don't actually miss a rest and you just jump away. Theres two types of animations when Wario gets hit with the drill, one where he wobbles back and forth while standing up and one where he crouches I don't know why one occurs, but if he does the animation where he stands up the Footstool should be guaranteed. If he trips then the footstool is also guaranteed. According to the Jigglypuff Guide rest will kill at 78% so if you land a drill and read his DI it will kill at 62% unstaled and if every hit connects. So thats cool i guess.

EDIT: In case anyone is wondering, the footstool is significant because it cannot be powershielded like a regular drillrest

 

[Noobicidal]

A sorta helpful kill setup is FH Dair -> footstool -> rest. If you miss the footstool at least you don't actually miss a rest and you just jump away. Theres two types of animations when Wario gets hit with the drill, one where he wobbles back and forth while standing up and one where he crouches I don't know why one occurs, but if he does the animation where he stands up the Footstool should be guaranteed. If he trips then the footstool is also guaranteed. According to the Jigglypuff Guide rest will kill at 78% so if you land a drill and read his DI it will kill at 62% unstaled and if every hit connects. So thats cool i guess.

EDIT: In case anyone is wondering, the footstool is significant because it cannot be powershielded like a regular drillrest

Just to throw this out there, Dair isn't needed if you happen to footstool a grounded Wario. This can be accomplished by outright footstooling a grounded Wario (though that will be rather rare in this MU), or you can footstool him out of a jump, jab lock him (which will also get him closer to Rest kill percents), waiting for the forced rising, and then footstool Rest him, which also isn't necessary since we can Rest the forced rising.

Also, about Dair, if the opponent trips, you don't need to do the additional footstool since the Rest WILL hit.

 

[ItoI6]

Oh I know you dont NEED to Dair its just more practical than jumping up to Wario and footstooling him. And i know u dont need to footstool when he trips but it makes it easier to always react with a jump when I actually land the move since it covers all options.

EDIT: lol Wario's footstool animation is hilariously bad you also have a guaranteed Nair at any percent am still testing for more stuff.

EDIT 2: You are able to land every single one of Jiggz aerials (even Uair!) out of a Dair footstool. This stuff probly isnt that that useful but its pretty lolsy

 

[Noobicidal]

EDIT 2: You are able to land every single one of Jiggz aerials (even Uair!) out of a Dair footstool. This stuff probly isnt that that useful but its pretty lolsy

Could you tell me if you can land a sweet spotted Fair? I'm a bit busy to test for myself.

 

[ItoI6]

Nope you can only land a sourspotted fair but at kill percents I'd rather use a rest and before then an uair to start a string, so I dont really think its that much of a loss.

 

[B.Mack]

I'll be totally honest, this matchup is damn near hopeless for jiggs.

I main Wario and secondary Jiggs. Jiggs biggest strength is horizontal spacing in the air, unfortunately Wario can space in the air in all directions, Jiggs' biggest strength becomes almost useless against Wario. he kills waaay faster and gets killed waaay slower. Jiggs can gimp Wario much better than Wario can gimp jiggs though, so I guess thats one area in which Jiggs shines. If any smart jiggs can land a dsmash on Wario, that should end the stock for Wario. Follow him offstage and hit him right as soon as he pulls out the bike. Jiggs has the second best offstage presence in the game IMO (after MK obviously). just nair and fair your way to victory when Wario is offstage.

Good lord please dont go for rests in this matchup. you will eat a full waft or a charged fsmash.
At max power, a half waft will kill jiggs from the centre of FD at around 40% maybe 50% with DI.

Jiggs can't even exploit Wario's biggest disadvantage AT ALL. at most, you can grab release on the edge of the stage into fair, which isnt really worth it. you can grab release into rest, but you will certainly fall off the side and die if you do.

as someone mentioned earlier, if a bike-happy Wario leaves his bike on the stage, you should get SUPER aggressive. keep him from destroying it and dont destroy it yourself. Wario's recovery is horrible without the bike. makes him SO much easier to gimp.

The bite isnt invincible. While it will ALWAYS beat a rollout, you can stall until the active frames of the bite run out. there is enough lag at the end of a bite(when Wario closes his mouth) for Jiggs to travel about the distance of FD and hit him before he can get shield up. the rollout is really just about mindgames in this MU. just dont try to use rollout to punish his landings or h'll just land with a bite(or b-reversed bite).

I'd say this MU is 65:35 and thats being generous to Jiggs. it's probably Wario's 3rd easiest MU after Ganon and maybe Bowser and those two characters even have infinites on Wario.

you wanna play defensive in this MU bcos Wario can beat all of your offensive options. hit fairs, bairs and pounds on the top of Wario to try and poke through bite(although pound always beats it) and to avoid that insanely fast shieldgrab.

 

[Krystedez]

I want to say 60-40 Wario, maybe 65-35, simply becaause of all the above stuff Baron has pointed out and the fact that Jiggs justs imply can not be up to par with Wario given any stage or circumstances. You may as well pick up a counterpick character really, because chances are Wario's got you beat.

I will give Jiggs credit on her ability to wall off Wario offstage, and that's about it. Baron made a great point about the bike.

 

[Noobicidal]

Nope you can only land a sourspotted fair but at kill percents I'd rather use a rest and before then an uair to start a string, so I dont really think its that much of a loss.

Ah, alright then.

Good lord please dont go for rests in this matchup. you will eat a full waft or a charged fsmash.
At max power, a half waft will kill jiggs from the centre of FD at around 40% maybe 50% with DI.

The only time most Jigglypuffs will use Rest is when they KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that it will land, or if they choose to Perfect Rest a multi-hit move, or decide to abuse Rest's 27 frames of invincibility.

Jiggs can't even exploit Wario's biggest disadvantage AT ALL. at most, you can grab release on the edge of the stage into fair, which isnt really worth it. you can grab release into rest, but you will certainly fall off the side and die if you do.

To be fair, we can do the same on platforms above the stage on places such as Brinstar, Battlefield and Norfair. Granted that we'll hardly get the opportunity, but still.

The bite isnt invincible. While it will ALWAYS beat a rollout, you can stall until the active frames of the bite run out. there is enough lag at the end of a bite(when Wario closes his mouth) for Jiggs to travel about the distance of FD and hit him before he can get shield up. the rollout is really just about mindgames in this MU. just dont try to use rollout to punish his landings or h'll just land with a bite(or b-reversed bite).

We have no reason whatsoever to use Rollout in a competitive situation, so the advice is irrelevant.

I'd say this MU is 65:35 and thats being generous to Jiggs. it's probably Wario's 3rd easiest MU after Ganon and maybe Bowser and those two characters even have infinites on Wario.

I'm in the 35:65/40:60 range myself.

 

[EraOfGames]

Can you guys stop saying "wario wins because he's a better jigglypuff" because they're not clones.

And for the puff mains dissin on Rollout, it's puff's 2nd strongest kill move, why wouldn't you use it. If you're not being a ****** with it, it's great.

 

[Noobicidal]

And for the puff mains dissin on Rollout, it's puff's 2nd strongest kill move, why wouldn't you use it. If you're not being a ****** with it, it's great.

Rollout can be interrupted by nearly any move, is ridiculously telegraphed, and has horrible initial start up and ending lag. If you're playing against someone who is even remotely decent, you will be punished.

Warlock Punch is Ganon's strongest move, yet we still don't use it in an actual fight

Spoiler

aside from double reversed WLP since it helps our horizontal recovery

.

 

[EraOfGames]

I'm aware of the weaknesses, and blindly using it gets you punished. I learned that the hard way. Using it as a punish is what makes it good, because it has a hax lunge. You also don't need to fully charge Rollout to make use of it, as the other charges are good too. The ending lag isn't bad because you can cancel Rollout offstage and they can't punish you for that.

Also I've landed Rollout on nearly every opponent I've played, and I know for certain they aren't (all) bad. I'm not going to lie either and say I never get punished for it, but I get enough kills that it's worth it. IMO we should have a move-set discussion thread for puff so we can talk more about it.

To be on topic, MU ratio would be 30-70 at most to 35-65 at least, Wario's favor; It is difficult for Jiggs but not impossible.

 

[ItoI6]

I don't really use rollout at all unless as a mixup when recovering after I've sweetspotted the ledge with it a few times.

 

[B.Mack]

Rollout punishes landings like a god. Thats when I use it most. its safe to hit your opponent's shield with it and if you catch a snake close to the ground, his best option is airdodge. he really cant do anything. Rollout is ****ing godly for punishing landings on characters who dont have ****ing broken landing options like Wario and his bite or Marth and fair.

I'm just saying. Rollout's most amazing use is irrelevant in this matchup.
I like to punish nado's with rollout. its too good. just jump away from MK and then charge a b-reverse rollout. catch him on landing. If you dont already do that then stop being a scrub. every MK that misses a nado on you after 100% should die. but anyway, thats not what this thread is about.

I'm gonna be on the Jiggly boards more now as I'm starting to take this character seriously.

 

[-LzR-]

But you know Wario can pressB and well that's it.

 

[B.Mack]

The bite isnt invincible. While it will ALWAYS beat a rollout, you can stall until the active frames of the bite run out. there is enough lag at the end of a bite(when Wario closes his mouth) for Jiggs to travel about the distance of FD and hit him before he can get shield up. the rollout is really just about mindgames in this MU. just dont try to use rollout to punish his landings or h'll just land with a bite(or b-reversed bite)

Rollout is ****ing godly for punishing landings on characters who dont have ****ing broken landing options like Wario and his bite or Marth and fair.

I'm just saying. Rollout's most amazing use is irrelevant in this matchup.
I like to punish nado's with rollout. its too good. just jump away from MK and then charge a b-reverse rollout. catch him on landing. If you dont already do that then stop being a scrub.

But you know Wario can pressB and well that's it.

I wish people would actually read my posts before replying them.

 

[-LzR-]

You can bite the release of rollout on reaction dude.

If you could cancel it like a spindash it would be ****.

 

[B.Mack]

Either ur illiterate or you just plain refuse to read.
Let me simplify it:
A rollout WILL NOT LAND on a Wario unless he does a bite while ur still charging it up because then you can just wait for him to close his mouth and then unlease the rollout on reaction before he shields or spotdodges.

Edit: if you could cancel it like spindash, Jiggs would have a ground game. BLASPHEMY

 

[Exegguter]

What's up with these people that are saying 70-30??? WHAT makes it 70-30? this match up is NOT as bad as snake or marth, wario has bad range, yes you're playing a better version of yourself but it's not that bad. Also rollout sucks in general Stop talking bout it ;_;.

Now i think we should test something so we can grab wario offstage alot. Grabbing wario offstage and if the wario is above 110% = free kill.

Patience, and spacing is the key (almost every mu of jiggs is )

The only real match-ups that are Horrible horrible horrible horrible no chance horrible are
gaw snake dk oli marth (luigi,fox)

Edit: NOT usefull just for lulz
Some warios bite when ur hanging on the ledge, if they do it everytime just sing cancel XD

 

[Mr. game and watch]

im gonna have to agree with the wario here. rollout is good for people who have already did an upb recovery and are landing from it. thats the only time you can hit wario with it almost.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

pic

Also, i never put a nice pic of how this MU would turn out soooo here ya go

EDIT: this is gay and uhhh pic wont work. just click this...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=cbwTTYWrCJH4sAPp4LDnAQ&ved=0CBoQ9QEwAA

 

[ItoI6]

lmao why have u guys been talking about rollout for 2 pages and not discussing matchup related relavent things. On topic I like to go sv to scrooge during the time when fart is most dangerous.

 

[Exegguter]

lmao why have u guys been talking about rollout for 2 pages and not discussing matchup related relavent things. On topic I like to go sv to scrooge during the time when fart is most dangerous.

THIS


Best post in thread so far XD


anyways I like to play on yi or bf vs jiggs cause the chance of getting a grab release here is higher. Predict his uair/fsmash/dair
Also when I play vs wario I like to play offstage

Dair and pound are kinda important in this match up so i'm using it alot

 

[Meru.]

What's up with these people that are saying 70-30??? WHAT makes it 70-30? this match up is NOT as bad as snake or marth

Then call those match-ups 80-20.

 

[Exegguter]

Why would a good wario do an up b and be in the air and end on the stage with lots of ending lag so you can charge your rollout?! the only 1 thats doing that is cpu-dk

skip this rollout-crap...


wario-jiggs is not 70-30. 60-40 at least 65-35 at most



iff u mastr rowlouwt its laik 50-50 gaiz omgawd u can punishh Warrioos upb!!

 

[T-block]

i'm gonna try rollout on MK tornado lol...sounds interesting

exegguter, you're taking numbers way too literally. each ratio means something slightly different to each person. it's a pretty stupid stystem.

 

[-LzR-]

Why wouldn't this MU be horrible? Our only strength, good aerial mobility means nothing in this MU. You can try to keep away, but Wario will always be in your face and all of his aerials are just better versions of ours. His drill is a lot better than ours too. You say that Wario lacks range so it's not that bad... You do realize that Puff is the one who lacks range, but doesn't have that ridiculous mobility to make up for it? Wario can work out his bad range with the ability to be suddenly in your face with his mobility and poke your shield like nobody's business.

Go above Wario, you die at 60-70% to uair. Try to stall, you die 40% to fart. Try to gimp, you fail at it.
Yeah, so it's kinda like playing a ditto MU where the opponent is 2x better than you. And everything Wario can't just beat anyways is bitten to death.

 

[Exegguter]

i'm gonna try rollout on MK tornado lol...sounds interesting

exegguter, you're taking numbers way too literally. each ratio means something slightly different to each person. it's a pretty stupid stystem.

Is that so? So we are dealing with another snake/marth/gaw here? I don't know how you guys play a wario but getting to 70-30 is saying that it's almost impossible
Also since when does fart 100% hit?? If we are talking bout how to dodge/scrooge his attacks or w.e why not discussing how to avoid his fart or fsmash or clap or any move that's dangerous and kills us below 70% instead of talking bout rollout. Lol i find oli/marth wayyyyyyyyy harder then wario

 

[teluoborg]

Patience, and spacing is the key (almost every mu of jiggs is )

Patience and precision (spacing) are player attribute, thus not relevant in matchup discussions.
Also 30-70 is not impossible, it's just hard as ****. 20-80 is impossible, and should be the ratio of Marth-Jiggs.

Now to contribute, how to gimp Wario :
-if he recovers low stay above him at a 45-60° angle, wait for him to bike and Nair/Dair him once. Then watch him fall to his death while Dairing so he doesn't make it back if he farts.
-if he recovers high then gg, try again next time.

 

[san.]

This isn't that bad an MU for jigglypuff. Many of Wario's good traits such as his mobility, mixups, etc, don't work as well as on other characters, because of jigglypuff's horizontal mobility and decent range (in comparison to wario). If jigglypuff dodges an attack, how can Wario chase the jigglypuff down?

Rollout and rest are moves that one should not expect to work, so these moves do not matter as usual.

Wario can kill earlier, but most of his kill moves outside of fart are easily punished by jigglypuff if whiffed. Jigglypuff has enough tools to put up a fight against Wario.