Jigglypuff-Wario MU export: Redone.

teluoborg

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I'll just come back on what lZr said cause it's wrong in many way :

recovery wise :
Wario has a better one, mostly because of its vertical component. Jiggs' vertical recovery kinda sucks since it's just "jump till you can get the ledge with a pound". HOWEVER, Wario's recovery is more gimpable because for it to be fully effective he has to have the bike and/or the fart ready.
Also anticipating moment when Wario will do his side B while recovering and punishing it with a low KB move (say, Nair or Dair) will mean the end of his stock. Well, if he's recovering low.

mobility wise :
last time I checked Jiggs was faster than Wario in the air, Wario has just a far better manoeuvrability.

Oh and Jiggs has a ground game. It's called SH aerials.
 

-LzR-

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SH aerials isn't a ground game >_>
That argument just lost the credibility of your post.
Wario's recovery is almost as good as Puff's, except Wario is like twice as heavy so he in practice lives a lot longer. And maximum airspeed < Airmobility.

If Wario spaces his bike well enough, you hit the bike, not Wario.
Also if SH aerials are now ground game, then every single ****ing character has the best groundgame in Brawl.
 

teluoborg

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Yeah, sorry, I should've put a smiley or "jk" after it.
But I didn't because I thought everyone would get this 45,231,568th version of the "Jiggs has no ground game" joke.
But well whatever.

Having a better air speed than someone who has a better acceleration still has one advantage : you can run away and he can't. But yeah other than that acceleration is better.

And then "if Wario spaces his bike well" what ? Wario can't change the trajectory of his "bike hop" and his bike doesn't cover his head. Nair/Dair is the way to go.
 
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jiggz ground game consists of dash attack, shield grabs, dash dancing, dash grabs, and boost pivot grabs
tilts are situational and d-tilt is for when your on platforms. OH and fsmash/dacus for killz =D
 

-LzR-

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I think Puff's grabs are actually legit. Her best groundmove. Also sometimes my foes tend to try to spotdodge my grab so I read and rest it ;)
 

B.Mack

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you use rest to read spotdodges?
wow you must get killed a lot for trying stupid options.

I got the joke teluo.
Also, Wario's hurtbox shrinks when he gets on the bike.
Just in case you didnt know, Wario can choose WHEN to do the bike jump. and can airdodge as soon as he gets to the apex of it. Even if Wario happens to be recovering low, gimping him isnt as easy as you guys make it sound sometimes.
 

G~P

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you use rest to read spotdodges?
wow you must get killed a lot for trying stupid options.

I got the joke teluo.
Also, Wario's hurtbox shrinks when he gets on the bike.
Just in case you didnt know, Wario can choose WHEN to do the bike jump. and can airdodge as soon as he gets to the apex of it. Even if Wario happens to be recovering low, gimping him isnt as easy as you guys make it sound sometimes.
the amount of time it takes wario to get to the paex is long enough for jiggs to hit him, two sex kicks can be very useful
also punishes spotdodges with rest can work if timed well because all spotdodges have cooldown frames, however it is an extremely flashy option
either way...
 

teluoborg

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you use rest to read spotdodges?
wow you must get killed a lot for trying stupid options.

I got the joke teluo.
Also, Wario's hurtbox shrinks when he gets on the bike.
Just in case you didnt know, Wario can choose WHEN to do the bike jump. and can airdodge as soon as he gets to the apex of it. Even if Wario happens to be recovering low, gimping him isnt as easy as you guys make it sound sometimes.
By "bike hop" I'm refering to that little hop the bike does when he uses Side B. And I know the property of the bike jump (which is really hard to punish compared to the bike hop).

It's not easy to gimp a low recovering Wario, because you have to be very reactive and punish just after his side B so he doesn't have the time to jump off of his bike, but it's nowhere near impossible.
 
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lol thanks. warios are so mean to us jiggs. almost as mean as jiggs are to me cause htey havent seen me play.
ANYWHO i like to kill with fairfairfairfair till they die. i forget what it called like wall of death or somethin crazy like that. i wish jiggs had a super armor! i also wish i wasnt so behind on the discussion! which, noob said we should stop at 35:65 so lets.
 
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while your comments are clever, and funny (to some) they will be ignored by me, and i will now only respond to on-topic posts.
thanks for the input on my rollouts and other techniques you guys are a huge help.
jerks.
 
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I know it's hard, but stay serious, guys. If KJ hadn't set a precedent with a warning, both of those posts would have been infracted. Any future posts of this nature will be infracted.

Don't let 'em get you down, Mr. game and watch. Keep learning ;)
 

SoulPech

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I think it's 65:35 Wario's Favor. The issue I feel are the stages IMO. What stages are best for Jigglypuff against Wario? The safest stage I can think of with Wario would be Smashfield starting out. On counterpick, I like FO, and Green Greens. On FO, Wario can beat Jigglypuff if the Wario is a top player. As for GG, it can be a crap shoot as to who wins. Just time your hits, space away to the two platforms away from the center, and bait them to hit the bombs.

Also, I'm not sure if this has been posted (only looked through 5 pages, but didn't see anything), but on platform stages (especially on Yoshi's Island where the platform tilts up) Jigglypuff has a grab release (I think) to rest and can also do a dash attack. As far as I know, this only works on platforms and the dash only works on Yoshi's Islands' platform tilt. I've done this 3 times against a human Wario and all landed and everyone is welcome to give it a try. I'll do more research on this. Despite this, it is still 65:35 Wario's favor.

EDIT: it's closed? Well, it's still 65:35 regardless :p
 
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When Wario is Recoveing to Stage light nair to get Wario off his bike its a good idea because it wouldn't give him height because wario can SDI the dair forward or upwards i think plus its risky if Wario has a Waft or half charged Waft because he can SDI the dair then Waft so light nair is a good idea
 

Karaoke Man

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I feel like the MU is a bit better than 65:35

from a horizontal standpoint, Wario doesn't really have anything that outspaces Jigg's bair and that's more or less where you'd want to keep him. Preferabley in the air however.

Jigglypuff can basically do everything Wario can in terms of aerial movement. you just have to you know....Watch out for him passing the gas :s
 

SoulPech

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Wario's Nair can out manuever Jiggs' Bair. It's literally a "bait-and-run" with bair.

his dair also messes us up because the only way we can be safe is if we time it to where we hit the body and not the head when it spins.
 
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