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Social Jigglypuff Social Thread (read first post!)

samsparta21

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How would you guys feel if the following changes were made to Jigglypuff?

1. Final Smash is Dazzling Gleam, Think Mother Brains laser but white and much more powerful and a larger range (and no knockback until the attack finishes)
2. Jigglypuffs up special is play rough, think like a mixture of Little Mac and Warios up special
3. Sing is now Jigglypuffs down special.
4. Rest is a taunt and is even stronger than what it was in Melee, but being a taunt, it is harder to land since you have to be on the ground to use it.


Thoughts?
1. A bit of a strange FS for someone like Jigglypuff
2. Maybe
3. No
4. Oh god no
 

OddCrow

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What changes, if any, would you guys like to see made to Jiggs due to her new Fairy-typing?
 

ProjectAngel

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What changes, if any, would you guys like to see made to Jiggs due to her new Fairy-typing?
I think I have a few, not just due to her new typing but changes that may make her not suck as much as she did in Brawl:

- Less endlag on her smash attacks
- Dash attack hits earlier
- Extended hitbox on up-tilt, f-tilt, and down-tilt with a poof of fairy dust coming out
- Up smash hits earlier
- Pound moved to her forward smash with altered properties
- Extended hitbox on down smash with poofs of fairy dust coming out
- Neutral air is Dazzling Gleam, in which it lets out a flash of light. Has medium knockback, small-to-medium range and slight endlag.
- New f-air and b-air involving flashes of fairy light
- U-air gains an extended hitbox and multi-hit capabilites with poofs of fairy dust. Will still have low knockback up to a certain percentage on the last hit.
- D-air has its meteor smash hitboxes on all hits.
- Forward throw's power is increased
- Down throw does damage during the rolling part of the attack
- Rollout's direction can now be changed in mid air.
- Jigglypuff can jump when Rollout is used on the ground, similar to Sonic's Spin Dash
- Sing is Jigglypuff's new side special and now emits song waves in front of it instead of around it.
- Fairy Wind is Jigglypuff's new up special. Jigglypuff files upward with a burst of fairy dust.
- Rest's properties are a mix of its Melee and Brawl properties, with the move KOing at arond 40%.
- Final Smash is Perish Song- it lets out a huge soundwave around it. Anyone caught in this soundwave will be marked- if Jigglypuff is KO'd, marked players will also be KO'd.
 

TheDuckChris

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Honestly the case with Jiggs is going to be a first either way.
If she doesn't return, it will be the first time they've cut one of the original 12.
If she does return, we'll have more than 4 pokemon characters playable, which hasn't happened before. Brawl had Pikachu, PT, Lucario, and Jiggs, while melee had Jiggs, Pichu, Pikachu, and Mewtwo. Seeing as how we might have fewer or the same amount of characters as brawl, I don't think they'd want to oversaturate the pokemon line anyway, so not including Jiggs is probably more likely.
 

Jigglystep

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If she does return, we'll have more than 4 pokemon characters playable, which hasn't happened before.
It bugs me when people say this. Yes, there are 4 slots for Pokemon in Brawl, but there's 6 completely different Pokemon characters playable.. 6 playable representatives for the series.

Regardless of basically meaningless numbers, I don't see why one of Nintendo's biggest IPs couldn't have 5 reps in Smash 4.. Mario does. Heck, I could even see Jiggs AND Mewtwo being included, albeit not as likely. But Jiggs is definitely getting in, especially with the relevance of her Fairy typing, the whole original 12 thing, and the fact that she's such an iconic 'Mon. Jiggs just has too many things going for her not to be included.

Also, just another piece of evidence that she's still relevant:



Jiggs, along with a bunch of other popular Pokemon (including the 4 current SSB4 Pokemon reps) were used to advertise Pokemon Art Academy. The fact that they're acknowledging Jigglypuff here is pretty solid evidence that she's relevant enough to stay in Smash.
 
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LancerStaff

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Just thinking, isn't she basically confirmed because of the sleep status? https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAABAAAYUKk_szxpPQ
Why go through the trouble of making new sleep animations when you could just shield break characters? It's for Jiggly's main gimmick of course.

Oh, and Sakurai has indirectly said he counts transformations as separate characters since he considers Brawl to have 39 characters.
 

Desu~

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^ Well.... that's not really a sleep animation. More like a "knocked-out face up" animation.

But Im really glad people seem to realize the relevance that Jiggs still have at the pokemon Paris event thingy.
I mean, when I saw that picture, I had this feeling that she still has something to surprise us with.

y'know, right beneath the vivillons.
 

LancerStaff

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^ Well.... that's not really a sleep animation. More like a "knocked-out face up" animation.

But Im really glad people seem to realize the relevance that Jiggs still have at the pokemon Paris event thingy.
I mean, when I saw that picture, I had this feeling that she still has something to surprise us with.

y'know, right beneath the vivillons.
"Pic of the day. Wii Fit trainer is flexible even while sleeping."
And wasn't Belosom in the direct?
 

Desu~

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Whatevs dude.
But just saying, everyone looks like they're "sleeping" when knocked up on the floor.
That's totally not worth arguing on.
 

AuraWielder

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Personally, I'm very sure that Jigglypuff will remain in SSB4. Ultimately, it's Mewtwo I'm most worried about. And in all honesty, I would love both of them to appear.
 

Desu~

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http://www.ssbwiki.com/File:Bellossum-3DS-2.png
How's about now? It even shows Bellossum's sleep powder wasn't changed.
Doesn't look like Sheik's lying down face up to me.

Edit: And if you're debating sooooo much about the sleep status then...

Just well done.
We have a Bellossom that can sleep people.

How does this have to do with Jigglypuff then.

On the contrary, you actually just proved to me that the Wii Fit Trainer in this pic IS NOT affected by sleep status.

If you're still certain that the Wii Fit Trainer is sleeping, then would you care to explain to me how we don't see the pink/purple -ish highlight that usually surrounds the character?
And why is there no bubble effect around the character?

There you have it. Wii Fit Trainer was not sleeping.

I just can't BELIEVE you made me waste my time explaining the obvious.

And you better not pull out the: "But I didn't know, you could've been nicer explaining it."
Cuz that would make me hate you more.
 
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LancerStaff

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Doesn't look like Sheik's lying down face up to me.

Edit: And if you're debating sooooo much about the sleep status then...

Just well done.
We have a Bellossom that can sleep people.

How does this have to do with Jigglypuff then.

On the contrary, you actually just proved to me that the Wii Fit Trainer in this pic IS NOT affected by sleep status.

If you're still certain that the Wii Fit Trainer is sleeping, then would you care to explain to me how we don't see the pink/purple -ish highlight that usually surrounds the character?
And why is there no bubble effect around the character?

There you have it. Wii Fit Trainer was not sleeping.

I just can't BELIEVE you made me waste my time explaining the obvious.

And you better not pull out the: "But I didn't know, you could've been nicer explaining it."
Cuz that would make me hate you more.
Different characters have different sleep animations, and the bubbles and pink hue aren't constant. I will give up on the Wii Fit Trainer pic however, considering there's nothing there that can prove it's sleep or knockdown other than Sakurai's translated message. But the Bellossum pic most certainly shows a sleeping Shiek, because of the sleep bubbles and the same exact sleep animation she had in Brawl.

The reason I believe the presence of the sleep effect effectively confirms Jigglypuff is because the effect is redundant with the dizzy effect around and being possible in any match. (That isn't a Jigglypuff only match, funnily enough.) Since the dizzy animation has to exist and functions exactly the same as sleep, sleep is essentially dizzy with a different animation. Why go though the trouble of porting over and making new sleep animations if it's redundant? Same as before, it's for a character's signature gimmick, and that character is in all likelyhood Jigglypuff. Not exactly a ton of characters that can even put others to sleep, much less as their signature move from their series.
 

Desu~

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So you're saying that each effect is, to some extent, a signature gimmick for a certain character?

That could be very true then if we consider things like the Freeze effect attributed to Ice Climbers, the "stuck on the ground" effect by Donkey Kong and Villager and the trip effect due to Diddy's bananas.

Now this is more like it.

But yeah, the Wii Fit Trainer argument was totally irrelevant, because we know Sakurai usually puts a bit of humour in his comments on these POTDs (like that Rosalina has galaxies beneath her gown thingy).
 
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Captain Soviet

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Doesn't look like Sheik's lying down face up to me.
And you better not pull out the: "But I didn't know, you could've been nicer explaining it."
Cuz that would make me hate you more.
Oh no, your opinions. So harsh and edgy. I can't stand it. No please. Stop being so cool.
 

RadRedi

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How would you guys feel if the following changes were made to Jigglypuff?

1. Final Smash is Dazzling Gleam, Think Mother Brains laser but white and much more powerful and a larger range (and no knockback until the attack finishes)
2. Jigglypuffs up special is play rough, think like a mixture of Little Mac and Warios up special
3. Sing is now Jigglypuffs down special.
4. Rest is a taunt and is even stronger than what it was in Melee, but being a taunt, it is harder to land since you have to be on the ground to use it.


Thoughts?
I have no qualms with this. However, I personally think it would be cool to make Up B "Disarming Voice". Jigglypuff is known for singing, so might as well stick with moves that are associated with it.
 

Lautsuu~

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Doesn't look like Sheik's lying down face up to me.

Edit: And if you're debating sooooo much about the sleep status then...

Just well done.
We have a Bellossom that can sleep people.

How does this have to do with Jigglypuff then.

On the contrary, you actually just proved to me that the Wii Fit Trainer in this pic IS NOT affected by sleep status.

If you're still certain that the Wii Fit Trainer is sleeping, then would you care to explain to me how we don't see the pink/purple -ish highlight that usually surrounds the character?
And why is there no bubble effect around the character?

There you have it. Wii Fit Trainer was not sleeping.

I just can't BELIEVE you made me waste my time explaining the obvious.

And you better not pull out the: "But I didn't know, you could've been nicer explaining it."
Cuz that would make me hate you more.
Oooh, you're a sarcastic bubble, aren't you?

I do think Jigglypuff is coming back, though.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Different characters have different sleep animations, and the bubbles and pink hue aren't constant. I will give up on the Wii Fit Trainer pic however, considering there's nothing there that can prove it's sleep or knockdown other than Sakurai's translated message. But the Bellossum pic most certainly shows a sleeping Shiek, because of the sleep bubbles and the same exact sleep animation she had in Brawl.

The reason I believe the presence of the sleep effect effectively confirms Jigglypuff is because the effect is redundant with the dizzy effect around and being possible in any match. (That isn't a Jigglypuff only match, funnily enough.) Since the dizzy animation has to exist and functions exactly the same as sleep, sleep is essentially dizzy with a different animation. Why go though the trouble of porting over and making new sleep animations if it's redundant? Same as before, it's for a character's signature gimmick, and that character is in all likelyhood Jigglypuff. Not exactly a ton of characters that can even put others to sleep, much less as their signature move from their series.
Okay, so with Jiggs all but confirmed, the only thing left to do is to wait. Hopefully, she can be revealed at E3.
 

Rayopuff

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Honestly, the only thing I care about the game at this point is that Jigglypuff's in it, couldn't care less about anything else.
 
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I dislike Jiggs. As a normal type she is obnoxiously boring Pokemon, at least compared to the plethora of Pokemon we could have. As a Fairy type though, she has potential. Here is the fairy move she learns:
Disarming Voice
Dazzling Gleam
Misty Terrain
Charm
Sweet Kiss

I think Disarming Voice, Dazzling Gleam, Misty Terrain, and Sweet Kiss all have potential to be in good moves for her.

[collapse=fairy moves that would work in Smash] Dissarming Voice: Roughly the size of Sing, this is a damaging move that stuns the opponent before sending them flying out. A nice bonus for this move is it will cause the opponent to drop whatever item they're holding.

Dazzling Gleam: Jigglypuff strikes a pose and is quickly surrounded by a blinding light. It's quick, it's effective, and it's quite fabulous. If you've used the "Strike a Pose" move in "Viewtiful Joe" you know exactly what this is.

Misty Terrain: A pink mist forms on the ground around Jigglypuff. This mist slows down anyone caught up in it, leaving them wide open. I think it would be best paired with Rest as I've written bellow.

Sweet Kiss: Jiggly quickly snatches forward (identical to Pound animation and speed) but instead of sending the opponents flying she quickly grabs them, and gives them a little kiss. Visually the kiss looks like this. The little angle from the games pops out when they kiss. The opponent is now stunned. They are in the shield breaker animation, except they have hearts around their head instead of stars. Jigglypuff can do whatever she wants with them now, though if she uses foward B again she will do Pound instead and send them flying.[/collapse]

Here's a write up of a moveset that would turn me around to her quickly:

[collapse=Moveset rework] Basics: All of Jigglypuff's stronger attacks now have a pink fairy mist surrounding them; this is very light and is only distinctly noticeable when she has charged up an attack fully. This pink mist also appears during her last two jumps and when she taunts. A nice touch would be to have it in her hair, and it comes out when she touches it during her idle animation. This mist emphasizes her new Fairy type.

Specials:
B: Rollout:
Personally I would like this move changed to a fairy move (Disarming Voice specifically), but it is iconic for a lot of players. I see no point in taking it out.

B over: Sweet Kiss: A Fairy move. Jiggly quickly snatches forward (identical to Pound animation and speed) but instead of sending the opponents flying she quickly grabs them, and gives them a little kiss. Visually the kiss looks like this. The little angle from the games pops out when they kiss. The opponent is now stunned. They are in the shield breaker animation, except they have hearts around their head instead of stars. Jigglypuff can do whatever she wants with them now, though if she uses foward B again she will do Pound instead and send them flying.

B Up: Sing: This move is given a massive boost. Instead of being a sphere a little bigger then Jigglypuff, it's now the a sphere the size of Donkey Kong. The further the opponent is from the Puff, the less time they spend asleep. On the outside it bearly does anything, midrange it does about the same it does now, but at it's closest it will leave the opponent asleep for several seconds.

Down B: Rest: This move is buffed to match it's Melee kill potential, but another I would like is when she's on the ground a mist forms around her (Misty Terrain) this mist slows anyone inside it down significantly. This mist covers about the same area as Wario Waft...which is a disgusting comparison. While it still leaves her wide open and someone can easily make their way through it if they really wanted to it is a effective deterrent. They are so slow they are just as open as Jigglypuff. It would be most effective in team matches, Jiggly turns on the mist, and a team mate swoops in and clobbers anyone caught up in the mist. This mist does not form in mid-air, or after she lands on the ground. So using it in the traditional way is just as risky.

With this movest Jigglypuff main focus is controlling an area, stunning an opponent who gets close, and pelting them mercilessly when they get caught. While she is a decent character on her own she would be be an absolute beast in team matches. While her moves only give her a slight advantage in 1-on-1 and free-for-all, an ally can cover her and punish anyone who isn't on their toes.
[/collapse]

What do Jigglypuff players think of this? I like it of course, but it would change quite a few things. Would people who play as the character enjoy this?
 
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Jigglystep

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What do Jigglypuff players think of this? I like it of course, but it would change quite a few things. Would people who play as the character enjoy this?
I do agree that her moveset is somewhat bland and uninspired, and changes to coincide with her Fairy typing would really help sprucen it up a bit. That said, I don't think they should stray too far from her initial moveset aside from buffing it in general, (such as b-air range, Sing, and Rest..) though I would definitely like to see some aesthetic changes to all her moves like you mentioned, and possibly a new Fairy-type special. Perhaps replacing Sing or Pound? I like your Disarming Voice idea, I could see that replacing Sing.
 

ProjectAngel

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Another thing that really hurt Jigglypuff in her transition from Melee to Brawl is the overall change in the Smash game itself- the slower fall speed and all that. With some of the changes we've seen in gameplay footage of Smash 4, what should we expect for Jigglypuff should she return?
 

Thor

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Slower fall speeds didn't do quite as much as the hitstun coding error [it's not actually lack of hitstun, as far as I've read - the hitstun was actually coded to be identical to Melee's (the variable that determines hitstun - in Brawl- it's an absurdly high X0.54, in 64 it's X0.533 last I checked - and if you watch old footage before momentum cancelling was discovered, they stay in hitstun same time as Melee it would seem), it's that you can airdodge out of a string] that knocked her out of viability. It also didn't help that Rest was nerfed...hard.

Rest buffs and being unable to cancel hitstun will help her a bit, though she probably needs a lot more than that.

Just announcer her already...
 

Tenchi Boom

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I know she will be back. I just hope she's abit more... lively this time. I don't know why, but she seemed kind of dead in Brawl. I'm pretty sure during her idle animation in Brawl, she never blinked whereas she did in Melee. This bugged me lol.
 

Spinosaurus

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Jiggs felt pretty rushed in Brawl, honestly. Doesn't help she was like the least changed character from Melee to Brawl, besides the weird Rest nerf. (And I think her bair got nerfed?) Also pretty much most of her sound effects were ported from Melee.

Either way, can't wait to see her. Especially with Mac now being her opposite, although in a more extreme sense.
 

LancerStaff

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I dislike Jiggs. As a normal type she is obnoxiously boring Pokemon, at least compared to the plethora of Pokemon we could have. As a Fairy type though, she has potential. Here is the fairy move she learns:
Disarming Voice
Dazzling Gleam
Misty Terrain
Charm
Sweet Kiss

I think Disarming Voice, Dazzling Gleam, Misty Terrain, and Sweet Kiss all have potential to be in good moves for her.

[collapse=fairy moves that would work in Smash] Dissarming Voice: Roughly the size of Sing, this is a damaging move that stuns the opponent before sending them flying out. A nice bonus for this move is it will cause the opponent to drop whatever item they're holding.

Dazzling Gleam: Jigglypuff strikes a pose and is quickly surrounded by a blinding light. It's quick, it's effective, and it's quite fabulous. If you've used the "Strike a Pose" move in "Viewtiful Joe" you know exactly what this is.

Misty Terrain: A pink mist forms on the ground around Jigglypuff. This mist slows down anyone caught up in it, leaving them wide open. I think it would be best paired with Rest as I've written bellow.

Sweet Kiss: Jiggly quickly snatches forward (identical to Pound animation and speed) but instead of sending the opponents flying she quickly grabs them, and gives them a little kiss. Visually the kiss looks like this. The little angle from the games pops out when they kiss. The opponent is now stunned. They are in the shield breaker animation, except they have hearts around their head instead of stars. Jigglypuff can do whatever she wants with them now, though if she uses foward B again she will do Pound instead and send them flying.[/collapse]

Here's a write up of a moveset that would turn me around to her quickly:

[collapse=Moveset rework] Basics: All of Jigglypuff's stronger attacks now have a pink fairy mist surrounding them; this is very light and is only distinctly noticeable when she has charged up an attack fully. This pink mist also appears during her last two jumps and when she taunts. A nice touch would be to have it in her hair, and it comes out when she touches it during her idle animation. This mist emphasizes her new Fairy type.

Specials:
B: Rollout:
Personally I would like this move changed to a fairy move (Disarming Voice specifically), but it is iconic for a lot of players. I see no point in taking it out.

B over: Sweet Kiss: A Fairy move. Jiggly quickly snatches forward (identical to Pound animation and speed) but instead of sending the opponents flying she quickly grabs them, and gives them a little kiss. Visually the kiss looks like this. The little angle from the games pops out when they kiss. The opponent is now stunned. They are in the shield breaker animation, except they have hearts around their head instead of stars. Jigglypuff can do whatever she wants with them now, though if she uses foward B again she will do Pound instead and send them flying.

B Up: Sing: This move is given a massive boost. Instead of being a sphere a little bigger then Jigglypuff, it's now the a sphere the size of Donkey Kong. The further the opponent is from the Puff, the less time they spend asleep. On the outside it bearly does anything, midrange it does about the same it does now, but at it's closest it will leave the opponent asleep for several seconds.

Down B: Rest: This move is buffed to match it's Melee kill potential, but another I would like is when she's on the ground a mist forms around her (Misty Terrain) this mist slows anyone inside it down significantly. This mist covers about the same area as Wario Waft...which is a disgusting comparison. While it still leaves her wide open and someone can easily make their way through it if they really wanted to it is a effective deterrent. They are so slow they are just as open as Jigglypuff. It would be most effective in team matches, Jiggly turns on the mist, and a team mate swoops in and clobbers anyone caught up in the mist. This mist does not form in mid-air, or after she lands on the ground. So using it in the traditional way is just as risky.

With this movest Jigglypuff main focus is controlling an area, stunning an opponent who gets close, and pelting them mercilessly when they get caught. While she is a decent character on her own she would be be an absolute beast in team matches. While her moves only give her a slight advantage in 1-on-1 and free-for-all, an ally can cover her and punish anyone who isn't on their toes.
[/collapse]

What do Jigglypuff players think of this? I like it of course, but it would change quite a few things. Would people who play as the character enjoy this?
Not bad ideas, but I don't think she should have her specials changed too much since they're all either iconic or completely important for the character. Letting us charge her ^B to use disarming voice would be nice though.
 

Jigglymaster

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Hungrybox is wearing a Jigglypuff shirt in the Smash invitational tournament promo vid.

Jigglypuff confirmed obvisly
 

JFM2796

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^Is that a mod or just a thing?

Anyways I'm hoping (certain) to see Puff back. I'm not a big fan of her as a Pokemon (not sure why she's in Smash Bros in the first place) but I have thoroughly enjoyed her playstyle for 15 years now. I'm just hoping they make rest as strong as it was in Melee. The gimped version in Brawl was a disgrace.
 
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Spinosaurus

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Yeah she has a really fun, unique and established playstyle. I would be devastated if she were cut.

She finally got an opposite (although in the extreme side of things) in Lil Mac.
 

NintenRob

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I always loved Jigglypuff, she was the first character I defeated Giga Bowser with thanks to rest (Kirby was my main but event 51 was torture)

But the real reason I love Jigglypuff has to be

It always made sense to have Jigglypuff in Smash for me, even more so then both Meowth, Mewtwo AND Chraizard. She is more loveable and is more recognizable in my eyes. I wish they would bring her back in the anime because I love Jigglypuff in that, She is a series staple in Smash now so at least her legacy will forever continue here.
 

Hot Uncle Sparky

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One thing that I never got about Jigglypuff is her listing in Brawl. In the cast reel and trophy collection, she was way down with Toon Link and Wolf as if she was a newcomer while the rest of the O12 were at the top.

It's probably something they forgot to change, but now I can't shake the feeling that there was some deep hidden meaning to it.
 

Spinosaurus

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She seemed rushed anyway. Like she had the least change coming from Melee and afaik she didn't even get any new sound effects. She was probably added the last with Wolf and TLink.
 

Hot Uncle Sparky

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Apr 10, 2014
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But the thing is, it couldn't have been that hard to just edit her to the top like the vets. That's what makes me curious. The other characters were listed by seniority, not time of completion.
 
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True Blue Warrior

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
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United Kingdom
NNID
TrueBlueSM
3DS FC
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Considering we won't have to worry about Jiggs's status at this point, we can now discuss potential match-up problems. One particular one that stood out is :4littlemac:. This guy is going to be a nightmare to face against, especially considering the super armour he gets despite not being a heavyweight. He may be weak in the air, but getting a good Little Mac player in the air is going to be really tricky.

Also, do you think Jigglypuff will be linked to Pokemon Art Academy on her page?
 
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Forcerounds

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 7, 2013
Messages
264
I was looking at Jigglypuff's X and Y level up move list and it is quite disappointing. It doesn't learn a fairy move until level 50, and it's only Disarming Voice! Then when it evolves into Wigglytuff, you can use a heart scale to teach it Play Rough (might be good for a grab animation), but Wigglytuff is not good as a physical attacker. Then again, disappointing level up move lists like this are common among late-game pokemon, whereas pokemon obtainable earlier in the game learn moves in an order that's actually sensible.

In Ruby and Sapphire, Jigglypuff can be caught in the route linking Meteor Falls to Rustboro City as soon as you get Surf, which is about halfway through the game. I expect Jigglypuff's level up move list in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire to be improved with more strong fairy moves because of this. Most notably, I hope they give Jigglypuff Moonblast in ORAS because any fairy type that evolves using the Moon Stone ought to. Then perhaps Jigglypuff can have the best Fairy move as her new final smash.
 

andalsoandy

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
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heck
She seemed rushed anyway. Like she had the least change coming from Melee and afaik she didn't even get any new sound effects. She was probably added the last with Wolf and TLink.
She was definitely rushed. Her air dodge animation is unchanged from Melee and it still transitions into special fall, then flips back to standard falling.
 
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