Jigglypuff Matchup #5: Snake

[Maniclysane]

Umm yeah you know each player can ban 1 stage.....

You were suggesting that Smashville was a good stage against Snake, which it really isn't.

 

[illinialex24]

You were suggesting that Smashville was a good stage against Snake, which it really isn't.

Out of your other CP stages, what else works on Snake besides Smashville. Mansion really helps stalling, so no. Cruise isn't good because U-tilt kills at like 10%. Frigate has a low ceiling so same deal and the platform doesn't help with Snake because his recovery is too good. Yoshi's island has the platform as bad and it is too small. Siege is pretty much bad all around. Smashville is your second best bet from what I know. So yes I was saying that.

 

[Maniclysane]

I guess. I would still go for Brinstar. It's too easy to forget about the bomb on the platform.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Havokk, have you ever tried to use a FFBair vs Jiggs? I've picked up Jiggs myself and may even use her competitively (just a little XD) and I know that Snake is one of her hardest match-up's. You say if you grab him, use uthrow. First of all, fthrow is probably better at the edge as it can force him to recover from beloew which can be lethal and second: While Snake is indeed not godly in aerial battles he can still defend himself well enough. He can drop a C4, dj airdodge or ffbair. Juggle traps are one of Snake's only true weaknesses but a smart Snake is still extremely hard to juggle even by MK and idk why Jiggs should be better at doing this.

Besides, while Jiggs has a good grab range it's still hard to grab a campy Snake because he outranges you so badly and Jiggs low running speed makes it impossible to dash grab. There's absolutely no way that Jiggs can approach Snake. On the ground she has virtually no options - all her approaches are coming from the air, where it's impossible to approach Snake from. He can just Mortar Slide everytime you get close and you have to chase him over the stage again. No projectile means that you always run the risk of hitting a Nade and even if Snake and Jiggs trade hits from a Nade, it's still in Snake's favour since has much more KO power and survives longer unless you grab him in a bad position.
If you mention Jiggs grab you should at least mention as well that snakes grabs >>> Jiggs grabs even if Jigglys grabs are good. The problem is that a juggle trap is ~50% in the best case. But a dthrow tech chase from Snake can deal just as much, which is more than half of Jigglys stock. At least Jiggs is very hard to grab but so is Snake (for Jiggs) and a dthrow techchase is harder to escape than a juggle trap.

That said, grabs are unfortunately still the best way to deal with Snake, since it's safe against Nades and they usually put Snake in a bad position (uthrow on the stage and fthrow off the stage). The problem is that a Dash Grab is really hard to land and Snake has too much range to make normal grabs useful.
I'd say that as Jigglypuff you should bait attacks and try to powershield them as often as possible since it's easier to land a grab that way.

Overall I say 7/3 snake's favour. He's far worse a match-up for Jigglypuff than MK is.

 

[PND]

7/3 is being generous. I still think it's 8/2 Snake.

 

[illinialex24]

7/3 is being generous. I still think it's 8/2 Snake.

Nah, I would say 65-35 as me. Its harder but you can win. Its like Marth.

 

[PND]

I dunno, ask Jiggernaut about our matches last night lol.

 

[Mister E]

I played a losers final against a Sanke player a few days ago... Even though i lost i killed him 4 out 5 times... i didn't find pound so usefull since he used that "Shield nade" trick... So mostly i fougth trying to poke him and WoP... i didn't find any better way... ( i suck at resting -.-) Atlast i bited good of me but this is not a matchup i could have won :S...

Anyway... Poke his shield and WoP out of the stage is the best way, i think :S

 

[Maniclysane]

I played a losers final against a Sanke player a few days ago... Even though i lost i killed him 4 out 5 times... i didn't find pound so usefull since he used that "Shield nade" trick... So mostly i fougth trying to poke him and WoP... i didn't find any better way... ( i suck at resting -.-) Atlast i bited good of me but this is not a matchup i could have won :S...

Anyway... Poke his shield and WoP out of the stage is the best way, i think :S

Welcome to the club. I can't rest for ****. I only choose Jigglypuff against big characters since i can land rest so easily, but sadly Olimar can do just as well in those matchups if not better.

 

[illinialex24]

Ok. You played a nade camper, a very common form of Snake. Pound can screw with you and rising pound doesnt work very well on his shield. Bair space this guy. If he's nade camping, if you bair space him out, he's gonna be taking major damage to his shield. Your gonna be poking his shield like this and forcing him to come out, which is what he doesnt want to do because he isn't accustomed to it. Now he is likely just gonna be chucking grenades and trying to boost smash around the stage and block your attacks to tilts, while setting C4 and other stuff all over. Now is when you bair, dair and pound **** him. If he's boost smashing or for some reason approaching, pound him out.

 

[PND]

Tilt camping Snakes are what you need to be scared of. Jiggs can actually get around the nades with her moves well enough, unless you try to roll out. Just don't. Trust me.

But tilts = OMGWTFHAX

If there's a platform for him to hide under and stick explosives on, you might as well just taunt camp him. It's probably your most effective option.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

When I have to fight a Nade camping Snake I like to get up close like I'm going to fair then empty ff to a grab>Bthrow. Sometimes the nade blows up, sometimes it doesn't. I've rising Daired a shielding Snake and avoided the explosion. It ***** his shield.

I don't do this matchup often though. I'll usually use Sonic, Falco, Pika or Snake vs. Snake. So I only did it a few times in blind picks.


Also, Marth is that bad for Jiggs? I love that match.

 

[PND]

Me too, but the Marth boards have a fit when I say it's better than 65-35 and then there's a long drawn out argument over how Jiggs has nothing, and I tell them what we can do, and they don't believe me.

Kind of like the Yoshis, but way more respectful.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

All I know is if I lose to a Marth vs. my Jiggs it tends to be because they could beat me anyway. Never anything that specific. A neat find I found was that if a Marth is trying to UpB from fairly low you can float over the edge and the last bit of DS is SO weak it can knock you on the edge for an instant edgehog. XD I think you have to FF/SmashDI down. I always do anyway. It's kind of hard to get the timing. It's better to just grab the edge but sometimes it'll help if you JUST can't get there fast enough due to Jiggs being, well, Jiggs.

 

[PND]

Also, her dash grab out ranges his fair. So time it right, and if he's just walling himself off he's in for a rude awakening.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I did not know that. That's AWESOME.

 

[PND]

Yeah, it's a little known tidbit that I've been using (and hyping) for a while. And my region is pretty much 3/4 Marth, so I have plenty of practice doing it.

 

[Spoonbob]

Maybe I've just been fighting bad Marths? It is semi-hard to approach, yeah, but once you get him off the map, it's way easy to keep him off.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Marth was designed to be gimped. XD

 

[Glick]

rising pound on sheild while they have a grenade isn't going to make it blow up. Just aim for the head. I dont find the matchup that hard honestly.

 

[illinialex24]

Marth was designed to be gimped. XD

Except for the fact that his B-up interrupts any of your moves. And its definitely 60-40 or 65-35 (definitely his advantage but not 70-30) but the Marth boards are very strict.

And did not know the dash grab thing

 

[~ Gheb ~]

rising pound on sheild while they have a grenade isn't going to make it blow up.

whoa, that sounds awesome. Gotta try that!

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Except for the fact that his B-up interrupts any of your moves. And its definitely 60-40 or 65-35 (definitely his advantage but not 70-30) but the Marth boards are very strict.

And did not know the dash grab thing

Yeah.. but if you chase him far off he'll have to use it early or at least get put in a bad position. and if he DOES hit you you'll take a bit of damage and he'll probably hit you back on the stage. Don't EVER drop down if he's within ledge grab range.

 

[illinialex24]

Yeah.. but if you chase him far off he'll have to use it early or at least get put in a bad position. and if he DOES hit you you'll take a bit of damage and he'll probably hit you back on the stage. Don't EVER drop down if he's within ledge grab range.

Unless its on japes to rest him. Yeayah.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

So. How bout that Snake?

 

[illinialex24]

So. How bout that Snake?

Almost impossible to fully gimp if he knows how to C4 launch himself well, but I've gotten 80 damage on a Snake before like that. I've only successfully gimped a Snake twice but I've made it so it was a lost stock a few times before. Try to knock him back and try to rack up as much damage as possible.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I just said that because the topic went from Snake to Marth.

Sheesh. A Sonic shows up and everything gets out of wack. XD

Snake's biggest weakness is what you can do to him while he recovers. His recovery rocks but you can destroy him in the mean time.

 

[Veril]

I added some new info to my first post. Learn to punish snakes Up-smash! Not just the mortar slide...

 

[Maniclysane]

I added some new info to my first post. Learn to punish snakes Up-smash! Not just the mortar slide...

Rest.

10rests

 

[Veril]

Rest.

10rests

actually I was just referring to how d-air out prioritizes the mortar.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

actually I was just referring to how d-air out prioritizes the mortar.

Lol, really? I didn't know that.

Anyways, you can rest snake out of his cypher for unexpected kills if you are a stock up. Seriously, they just expect Fair/Bair and take their damage while in cypher.

Veril, is the god DI you did against Lucas's Usmash possible for all upwards knockback attacks? Because that would be amazing against Utilt.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Lots of things out prioritize the mortar. I think EVERY aerial from Sonic works. The mortar is weak sauce. SPECIALS don't break it though. Oddly enough neither does MK's aerials.

 

[Veril]

Veril, is the god DI you did against Lucas's Usmash possible for all upwards knockback attacks? Because that would be amazing against Utilt.

Its impossible to use (intentionally) on the up-tilt. Not enough hit lag.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Its impossible to use (intentionally) on the up-tilt. Not enough hit lag.

So it's strictly based on the amounts of DI you can input?

 

[Veril]

So it's strictly based on the amounts of DI you can input?

That depends on whether the knockback is set or not. Single hit moves with unset knockback are not really possible to GDI.

OH AND: The restening! Fo Snake.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6055324#post6055324

 

[illinialex24]

So it's strictly based on the amounts of DI you can input?

Yes, if you can input lots of DI before moving, you can get stuck in a tech animation before actually moving upward.

 

[Veril]

Yes, if you can input lots of DI before moving, you can get stuck in a tech animation before actually moving upward.

With Lucas you're getting hit twice. SDI > tap tilt DI (let it return to neutral) > SDI > Tilt DI + shield. You need to be fast as h***.


With some set knockback moves GDI is just like a superior SDI. Escaping Snake's f-tilt works that way. Almost simultaneous, perfectly timed double stick DI.

 

[illinialex24]

With Lucas you're getting hit twice. SDI > tap tilt DI (let it return to neutral) > SDI > Tilt DI + shield. You need to be fast as h***.


With some set knockback moves GDI is just like a superior SDI. Escaping Snake's f-tilt works that way. Almost simultaneous, perfectly timed double stick DI.

Yeah it should be able to work on multihit moves as well. Pound though is 1 fast hit. But you can DI the beginning well.

 

[Veril]

Yeah it does work on multihit moves as well. Pound though is 1 fast hit. But you can DI the beginning well.

corrected.

Also, pound? You can't pound if you've already been hit.

 

[illinialex24]

corrected.

Also, pound? You can't pound if you've already been hit.

No. You can DI pound to get into a tech animation. That is if you are hit with pound.