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Several puffs think we beat rosa, which I dont agree with but can understand why. That said, I do think we beat ZSS. But that comes from the guy thinking that puff is at the top of mid tier *shrug*
I think we lose to both Rosa and ZSS.
Late Dash attacks jab locks at low percents, and you were barely in the range (I looked at the jab lock thread, and it said 0-35%, but maybe it it extends to 36%).I think we lose to both Rosa and ZSS.
Can we please look more into this? Got it in friendlies, poor guy. Stage spiked him on the first kill, and on the second he failed to tech the platform as it was moving out of the screen, then this.
Woah that's a strong declaration. Care to explain why you think she is at top of mid tier? I think we have waaay too many unfavorable matchups for that.
ZSS has issues approaching us, and we escape her infamous grab combos. We're small and can be in her face. It's like her pika MU, except we aren't as good as pika.
Please tell me how to escape the combos, because I get bodied by ZSS.
Sour spot dash attack locks medium characters 2% longer than sour spot fair 3% for heavies and 1% for light weights. It's a little different when the move is stale of course, but the lock is also affected by rage so they can even each other out. Here's a table of fair lock %s http://i.imgur.com/ahjjiK7.png?1
when you are at 30%, she shouldnt be able to double uair you. DI out and spam your jump button. at about 60% she wont be able to follow up grab with an uair at all.
Thank you for the tip (:
np man, anytime
matchup?
It's pretty easy for Dedede to hit us with down throw--> fair all the way through... Maybe about 45%? At 35-40 he'll have to start doing a fast double jump, and any earlier than maybe 30 should be one quick jump and then fair after the dthrow. It stops working on us at about 50 or above. It shouldn't be very escapable... The combo meter says its true. Many Dedede players don't get it on me though, so fast timing is a key for the D3 player. Many of them don't have it, so it might be safe to jump airdodge... Maybe even trade or counter with nair... Preferably counter. High level Dedede players might read the airdodge jump, or just have the fast timings mastered.
Gonna be honest there, DDD's options and mixups are way too superior for Jiggs to be considered a "great MU".What do you all think of the
Also no, "easy to rest" and "big hurtbox" aren't good enough answers.
Yup, she is. She's even worse than she was in Brawl, something I didn't know was possible but here we are.
There is no way she is considered worse than in Brawl, sure this game provides a much more competitively hostile environment for her due to all the disjointed characters and powerful projectiles, but she can always find a way to win with enough patience.
Disagree wholeheartedly, she mostly struggles a lot agaisnt the top section of the tier but between middle and the such she does stand a chance.
In Brawl she could at least still do two aerials in one shorthop, and her edgeguarding capabilities were much stronger than they are currently. Jigglypuff was dead in Brawl's metagame, and she's dead in Smash 4's. Her lack of range, awful ground game, losing incredibly hard to shield and having poor grabs, throws and set of specials don't make up for such a fragile character. Sure she has fast airspeed and fair and bair are good moves, but I can literally name 30-40+ characters with aerial ability that far outdoes Jigglypuff's. Her design is just far too polarized to ever be viable competitively. You could say the same thing for Little Mac, but at least his ground-hugging playstyle works when played to full effectiveness and he has good results to his name thanks to people like Sol or Alphicans. I can't say the same for Jiggs.
Funny you mention that considering she was actually a (very situational, but still) counterpick to Diddy Kong in Brawl, who was top tier in that game. And nah. Name one character Jigglypuff has a slight advantage over or solidly counters outside of bottom tiers like Ganon or Zelda. And even then, her abilities far outdo hers. At least they can actually kill.
I'm pretty sure Little Mac is less viable than Jigglypuff due to platform camping (a HUGE problem) and Sheik (worse than any of Jiggs's matchups)
Boss Bossanova
... she's in a weird spot.lol Jiggs does not counter Falcon, or ZSS like many on this board try to claim. My claim still holds that she has a really bad matchup spread.
Dash attack is pretty decent, and her F-Smash isn't nearly as bad as you're claiming. If you set up kills with jab, it becomes a lot easier.
Dash attack is still highly punishable on shield and jab is very short-ranged, so I doubt it.
It's highly punishable, which is why you don't spam it. Use it on occasion after setting it up with jab, and it's a good option. Make sure you jab to pound/grab before that so they don't automatically go for the shield. Jab's range isn't great, but it's not bad either, and it's quick and can be cancelled after the first jab, allowing it be a fairly safe option. People really need to use it more.
Jiggs doesn't beat ZSS in any capacity. Falcon I can sorta see, but ZSS? Nope. Before anyone goes "b-but crouch!!", you have to take some other things into consideration. ZSS is a very versatile character all around, and literally all her aerials beat Jiggs pretty handily, especially bair and nair. Hell, she has ftilt and dtilt in response to Jiggs crouching, and can take advantage in general of Puff's poor air-to-ground-transitioning. Once ZSS grabs Puff and does her up air to Up-B combo, she dies before the last hit even connects. That's maximum kek right there.
I honestly doubt she beats either one. I think the whole reasoning is that she gimps their recoveries easily (with Falcon who doesn't?), but she doesn't have much else.
I completely agree, that's why I said "at best". I see why people think it's even, but I don't think so for the same reasons Kirby vs. ZSS isn't even despite Kirby being a better character. The two have the same problem in the matchup, neither can start any sort of offense because ZSS can shut it down without a problem. They can punish all but three or four moves with crouch, but that doesn't mean much because the ZSS can just keep them out to the point to where they'll never get the opportunity to punish anyway.
I didn't put any words in your mouth, I was asking a question because I don't see what you mean when you say she can't kill. Sorry if it seemed otherwise.
