Meta Jigglypuff Competitive and Metagame Discussion

[drakeirving]

Too bad it's one of the most unsafe moves on the planet lol

 

[Jiggly]

Too bad it's one of the most unsafe moves on the planet lol

Make it autocancel, and it would be a godsend...

 

[Codaption]

Honestly, Uair would be a lot better if it got an overall tweaking. Frame data is an issue in some aspects and not in others- it has 8 frames of startup but not too much endlag or landing lag, and the long-lasting hitbox makes it able to catch stuff but isn't as useful as the followups potentially offered by a shorter move duration.

A damage buff would be nice, I guess, but honestly the biggest issue is range. Uair has horrible range, vertically and horizontally, and a nice boost there would make it infinitely more useful.

 

[Stickmanlolz]

Sadly this is very unlikely to happen. If anything they will just buff Jigglypuff's special moves due to how much the casuals use them(seriously they are the only attacks they use)

I at least hope they make rollout more useable by being able to store the charge. Casuals.Love.Rollout. And we would gain a new advantage. everyone's happy

 

[Kojii]

Sadly this is very unlikely to happen. If anything they will just buff Jigglypuff's special moves due to how much the casuals use them(seriously they are the only attacks they use)

I at least hope they make rollout more useable by being able to store the charge. Casuals.Love.Rollout. And we would gain a new advantage. everyone's happy

I do also love rollout
Edit: Storing rollout charge would be so cool

 

[Stickmanlolz]

I do also love rollout
Edit: Storing rollout charge would be so cool

Now that, was hot "sweating"

 

[CHOVI]

I think Rollout is good for a suprise move

 

[Stickmanlolz]

I think Rollout is good for a suprise move

Exactly the reason why it should have the ability to keep it's charge(at least be able to keep up to half charge)

 

[FunAtParties]

No buffs again. Sakurai is just killing it lately.

 

[Stickmanlolz]

No buffs again. Sakurai is just killing it lately.

He's probably going off of the win rate on For Glory. Noobs who only use pound, sing and rest reign supreme against the other noobs, so to him it probably looks like Jigglypuff is top tier.

 

[FunAtParties]

He's probably going off of the win rate on For Glory. Noobs who only use pound, sing and rest reign supreme against the other noobs, so to him it probably looks like Jigglypuff is top tier.

That's possible, if so we should all probably start tanking.

 

[Stickmanlolz]

That's possible, if so we should all probably start tanking.

Ha! Easy I have a terrible win rate anyway (I face way too many Marths)

 

[Soft Serve]

whelp. puff got looked over again. Maining bowser now, was fun everyone.

 

[FunAtParties]

whelp. puff got looked over again. Maining bowser now, was fun everyone.

Good luck.

 

[Stickmanlolz]

whelp. puff got looked over again. Maining bowser now, was fun everyone.

Why give up? There must be a patch coming at some point to make Jigglypuff more competitively viable. And even if there isn't one you may as well keep playing as her. It would be a waste to not keep your progress made with the character.

 

[FunAtParties]

Why give up? There must be a patch coming at some point to make Jigglypuff more competitively viable. And even if there isn't one you may as well keep playing as her. It would be a waste to not keep your progress made with the character.

It's frustrating to stick with a character that seems to have no chance, and is getting ignored every step of the way. I think she's better than people say, but there's no denying she's still one of the worst characters in the game. If he wants to move on and have a chance in the competitive community, I say good luck to him.

 

[Soft Serve]

Nah I'm just going to stick with pm/melee and enter smash 4 on occasion

Tbh there's only going to be a handful of patches left and I really doubt puff will get any love. If I ever do get into smash 4 again I'll play bowser or cloud.

I don't think with 3 new sword/projectile/disjoint characters in the game built to be high tier puff has a place. Out of all the high tier characters mario and like, fox are the only mus that seem workable. As the game develops and people pick all the actually good characters, I'd rather not fight 70/30 mus vs everyone.

 

[Jiggly]

cloud is literally the easiest thing to gimp lol. Jump in his way and nair. Nothing he can do

 

[Stickmanlolz]

Nah I'm just going to stick with pm/melee and enter smash 4 on occasion

Tbh there's only going to be a handful of patches left and I really doubt puff will get any love. If I ever do get into smash 4 again I'll play bowser or cloud.

I don't think with 3 new sword/projectile/disjoint characters in the game built to be high tier puff has a place. Out of all the high tier characters mario and like, fox are the only mus that seem workable. As the game develops and people pick all the actually good characters, I'd rather not fight 70/30 mus vs everyone.

I was honestly thinking the same thing in terms of how unlikely it is for her to keep up unless the developers do something drastic, but no matter how bad it gets I will continue using her and good luck to you in pm/melee(those games are so fun)

 

[Stickmanlolz]

cloud is literally the easiest thing to gimp lol. Jump in his way and nair. Nothing he can do

What about his up-b?

 

[CHOVI]

cloud is literally the easiest thing to gimp lol. Jump in his way and nair. Nothing he can do

Even then, I believe the matchup to be terrible.

At this point I don't really care about Jiggs being buffed :/ Sakurai doesn't even seem to know she exists. Whatever happens, I'm gonna main this character and I WILL become good with her. Even with matchups as awful as they seem, I still think we can overcome whatever challenge comes to us with perfect spacing and great edgeguards and well timed rests.

 

[Kojii]

Just throwing out an idea, not sure how well it would work.
You can option select an air dodge out of nair and fair while spacing. If you hit nothing happens and you can follow up, but if you whiff you'll air dodge.

 

[trev0115]

You can option select an air dodge out of nair and fair while spacing. If you hit nothing happens and you can follow up, but if you whiff you'll air dodge.

So just to clarify... does this happen when the opponent is shielding, or somewhere in midair? Air dodge into ground has pretty horrible landing lag

 

[Kojii]

So just to clarify... does this happen when the opponent is shielding, or somewhere in midair? Air dodge into ground has pretty horrible landing lag

Was thinking if you are carrying people across the stage or off stage. Just a concept, I'll look into it when I have time (:

 

[drakeirving]

Do you mean that you select during hitlag? I don't think there's enough hitlag on those moves to make sense doing, and even then you'd need to time it on hit. If you mean about buffering your next option, then shield (i.e. airdodge) will always out-prioritize attacking.

 

[Codaption]

As the game develops and people pick all the actually good characters...

Just gonna nitpick and say that both Mario and Fox are easily in the top 10. We also eat Falcon alive, the better puffs in the Skype group tend to agree we beat Rosalina (still not sure what the reasoning is but I kinda get it? Idk), and in general we don't fare too poorly against the top tier save a few characters.

 

[Kojii]

Do you mean that you select during hitlag? I don't think there's enough hitlag on those moves to make sense doing, and even then you'd need to time it on hit. If you mean about buffering your next option, then shield (i.e. airdodge) will always out-prioritize attacking.

The thing is that this just was an idea and I don't know exactly how hit lag is calculated, but I'll look into it when I have time.

It sparked a discussion I guess.

 

[CHOVI]

I don't really see how we beat Rosalina tbh

 

[Funtroon]

Any tips on the Jigglypuff/Pikachu match up? I honestly can't seem to know how to approach him at times..

 

[CHOVI]

Any tips on the Jigglypuff/Pikachu match up? I honestly can't seem to know how to approach him at times..

Why? You can beat Neutral B with nair. Also his range is not that great. And if he Dtilts, you can approach from the air; maybe even with dash attack though I'm not sure.

 

[drakeirving]

Dash attack should eat dtilt (or clank on late) if the two happen to meet. Dtilt is also fast and effectively unpunishable enough that "if he uses it then do X" isn't an option ever.

One thing with batting away Thunder Jolt with nair is that it lasts so long that Pika can often straight up zoom in and punish, or shield your approach if you aren't close enough. It isn't free and you should mix it up.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

How do you guys play neutral with puff?

I think if you have really good awareness you can make the most out of puff as one read can mean a lot.
I personally like close ranged mix-ups as you can pretty much get a free rest depending on what option they choose or cover multiple options. Like crouch beats jab, and spot dodge as you can mash rest out of most rapid jabs and punish spot dodge with rest. If you think they will grab you can just jab them as you will always beat it and you can do jab mix-ups like jab rest, jab jab dash attack, jab d-smash, etc

Usually i just space with f-air in nuetral though.

 

[FunAtParties]

How do you guys play neutral with puff?

I think if you have really good awareness you can make the most out of puff as one read can mean a lot.
I personally like close ranged mix-ups as you can pretty much get a free rest depending on what option they choose or cover multiple options. Like crouch beats jab, and spot dodge as you can mash rest out of most rapid jabs and punish spot dodge with rest. If you think they will grab you can just jab them as you will always beat it and you can do jab mix-ups like jab rest, jab jab dash attack, jab d-smash, etc

Usually i just space with f-air in nuetral though.

F airs, and Nairs mostly.

 

[CHOVI]

Fairs and dairs for me. Dair so good for shielding opponents :3

 

[Codaption]

Learn to keep Bair fresh. It's our best spacing tool, but at the same time it's also our most reliable killer so using it too much in neutral hampers its power when we really need it (especially since you'll generally be landing the sourspot). Fair and Dair are both nice on shield, albeit not as good as Bair, and Ftilt has frame advantage. SHAD is also really nice for baiting oos options.

One thing I'd like to touch upon in particular is Puff's grab, as it's something that's kind of overlooked- while our grab game is far from great, we definitely have an extremely powerful raw grab game in terms of damage. Two pummels and a throw tacks on about 16%, gives us positional advantage of our choice, and (here's the important one) frees up three spaces in the staling queue for Bair. Keep tomahawking in mind as an option once they hit around 80% or so, and especially at higher percents when the extra damage and Bair freshness might provide an opening for a kill.

EDIT: Fixed a doofy mistake of mine.

 

[CHOVI]

Learn to keep Bair fresh. It's our best spacing tool, but at the same time it's also our most reliable killer so using it too much in neutral hampers its power when we really need it (especially since you'll generally be landing the sourspot). Fair and Dair are both nice on shield, albeit not as good as Bair, and Ftilt has frame advantage. SHAD is also really nice for baiting oos options.

One thing I'd like to touch upon in particular is Puff's grab, as it's something that's kind of overlooked- while our grab game is far from great, we definitely have the most damaging combination of pummels and throws of any character. Two pummels and a throw tacks on about 16%, gives us positional advantage of our choice, and (here's the important one) frees up three spaces in the staling queue for Bair. Keep tomahawking in mind as an option once they hit around 80% or so, and especially at higher percents when the extra damage and Bair freshness might provide an opening for a kill.

But our pummels are really slow... I think we can only safely do one pummel before a throw unless percentage's really high

 

[FunAtParties]

But our pummels are really slow... I think we can only safely do one pummel before a throw unless percentage's really high

They aren't THAT slow. It's not like we're talking about MetaKnight here.

 

[Funtroon]

Any tips on DIing ZSS's up air combos into up b? I keep getting killed at like, 40%.

 

[Codaption]

But our pummels are really slow... I think we can only safely do one pummel before a throw unless percentage's really high

You can do two pummels safely starting at around 80ish%. That's far before you'll even need them to freshen Bair, so we're good there.

 

[Browny]

I might get some of my puff replays to put up here.

Shes probably my second most played character in this game (main in melee/PM, used her in brawl a lot too) and I think she gets a lot of unfair ridicule.

Someone mentioned Rosalina, for what its worth, I find that Rosalina is the easiest top tier to deal with as puff with ZSS second. Still hard matchups for sure, but I'd rather a Rosa over like... 30 other characters in this game.