Meta Jigglypuff Competitive and Metagame Discussion

[MisterDom]

I'm honestly scared. Im bad dealing with changes, even if they're good. 1.06 I had to get used to te faster bair... Took a few days...

I do hope though that they change down throw to a better throw combo or at least give it the hitstun it once had.

 

[Jiggly]

I'm honestly scared. Im bad dealing with changes, even if they're good. 1.06 I had to get used to te faster bair... Took a few days...

I do hope though that they change down throw to a better throw combo or at least give it the hitstun it once had.

wasn't the change like, 1 frame? lol

 

[MisterDom]

1 frame is everything...

Oh God it's everything...


:|

Also, save frames, not animals! #SGDQ

 

[Jiggly]

1 frame is everything...

Oh God it's everything...


:|

Also, save frames, not animals! #SGDQ

it's not really anything you have to "get used to" lol

 

[MisterDom]

it's not really anything you have to "get used to" lol

Every frame counts! #SGDQ!

But really though, I think it was by like 20 or 10 frames or something. Not quite sure but a little more than one.

 

[Jiggly]

Every frame counts! #SGDQ!

But really though, I think it was by like 20 or 10 frames or something. Not quite sure but a little more than one.

wat. 20 frames faster? You think Jigg's bair was 20 frames faster? lol. Okay xD

 

[MisterDom]

No, just faster than 1 lol

I might've over exaggerated but meh. Definitely not 20.

 

[RoyNowBoyNow]

Having trouble getting the 0-death registering as a true combo in training. Heck, I can't even get the shff up air to register into the up tilt. Is this the combo meter being unreliable as per or am I doing something wrong?

 

[Jiggly]

Having trouble getting the 0-death registering as a true combo in training. Heck, I can't even get the shff up air to register into the up tilt. Is this the combo meter being unreliable as per or am I doing something wrong?

It's unreliable. I can get each two moves to register as a combo into each other if I just do two moves. Once I do them all it doesn't count it. We were testing it, and it is a real combo though

 

[RoyNowBoyNow]

It's unreliable. I can get each two moves to register as a combo into each other if I just do two moves. Once I do them all it doesn't count it. We were testing it, and it is a real combo though

That's fantastic, it's awesome, I just hate the fact the training combo meter isn't accurate because it means I have to pester to know for sure. I'll keep testing it, having good fun atm, main problem is getting the down air DI right but I'm new to Jiggs so it'll come with time I'm sure.

 

[MisterDom]

That's fantastic, it's awesome, I just hate the fact the training combo meter isn't accurate because it means I have to pester to know for sure. I'll keep testing it, having good fun atm, main problem is getting the down air DI right but I'm new to Jiggs so it'll come with time I'm sure.

Yeah, the combo meter is inaccurate

I hate how people say if something is or isn't a combo because of the combo meter. For all I know, the meter only goes to two if the move isn't a consecutive hit move

 

[drakeirving]

So, going through the previous raws, I can't find any evidence that bair was ever changed. Pretty sure you guys are full of it.

 

[Jiggly]

So, going through the previous raws, I can't find any evidence that bair was ever changed. Pretty sure you guys are full of it.

Probably, I only ever heard from Hbox that Bair was changed. I never noticed a difference. Dom is often full of it though

 

[Funtroon]

So, some people in the viability survey thread are calling Jigglypuff the worst character in the game. While I do think she's bad, I don't believe her moveset prompts such strong statement..

Thoughts?

 

[Wintermelon43]

So, some people in the viability survey thread are calling Jigglypuff the worst character in the game. While I do think she's bad, I don't believe her moveset prompts such strong statement..

Thoughts?

Lol she's a middle tier, those people just havn't ever seen her played

 

[MisterDom]

Lol she's a middle tier, those people just havn't ever seen her played

She loses every matchup. Like every single one. The only approach option she has is pound, or jump in front and a quick grab, or something spaced. If you focus too much on spacing, you WON'T get a follow up unless know you'll hit, and slide forward with your momentum. Even then, you probably won't get a follow up. Jigglypuff does suck, but does have really good things. Those good things aren't good for this game though. Not good enough to beat 'viable characters'

She deserves high D tier, maybe low c tier

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So, some people in the viability survey thread are calling Jigglypuff the worst character in the game. While I do think she's bad, I don't believe her moveset prompts such strong statement..

Thoughts?

Not even that bad in this game.

 

[Jiggly]

She loses every matchup. Like every single one. The only approach option she has is pound, or jump in front and a quick grab, or something spaced. If you focus too much on spacing, you WON'T get a follow up unless know you'll hit, and slide forward with your momentum. Even then, you probably won't get a follow up. Jigglypuff does suck, but does have really good things. Those good things aren't good for this game though. Not good enough to beat 'viable characters'

She deserves D tier

Lol, do you even puff? Damn.

 

[Aquamentii]

Here's why I don't think Jiggs could ever be called worst in the game:
Once upon a time, probably 2 or 3 months ago, I went into For Glory with Jigglypuff, not too long after picking up the character. Looking for training, I kept going, slowly starting to win more and lose less. Then, I came across a shiek player.
Now, pretty much everyone can agree that shiek is the best character in the game. All of her moves combo flawlessly, she lacks kill moves but has kill setups, an almost completely invincible recovery, etc. etc. now, the person playing this shiek was clearly much better than me. They were consistently beating me in neutral with better spacing and reading, and I was having trouble getting on any % at all. After getting bodied up to my last stock at 100%, I finally managed to score a Bair and kill them somewhere in the range of 120%. With the small momentum from the kill, I managed to get a good string on them and tacked up 40%, before they reset to neutral and hit me up to 142%(the highest I've ever lived to with Jiggs) with needles and other weak moves. I would die to pretty much anything that hit me, right?

Then, he runs in to go for something. I spotdodge his grab and kill him at 40%, give or take.

Despite playing against someone clearly better than me(I switched to Toon Link afterwards and got destroyed) who was using the best character, I was able to make one read and kill my opponent at 40%. I'm pretty sure there's no other character in the game who can do that.

 

[MisterDom]

Lol, do you even puff? Damn.

I do, and I get results most of the time thank you very much.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Hello, guys! The Kirby Boards just recently voted to start discussion on the Balloon Pokemon, Jigglypuff! If you could, please give us your input on what the match-up is like, the pros/cons, et cetera, on THIS link right here. Thank you very much, guys. We hope that you are all Rested up to tell us what it is like, this match-up!

 

[Jerodak]

Yeah, the combo meter is inaccurate

I hate how people say if something is or isn't a combo because of the combo meter. For all I know, the meter only goes to two if the move isn't a consecutive hit move

If the opponent leaves hitstun before your next hit, it won't count as a "combo". However that's only technically true because very few options produce hitboxes or intangibility on frame 1. However, in most cases, if training counts it as a combo it should be guaranteed.

I should mention that if hitstun wears off and the opponent does an attack, but you still hit them first, that will also be counted as a "combo" on the hit counter. Which is also technically true because the hit is still guaranteed in that situation but still be careful because it might be different if they try something else.

 

[Codaption]

If the opponent leaves hitstun before your next hit, it won't count as a "combo". However that's only technically true because very few options produce hitboxes or intangibility on frame 1. However, in most cases, if training counts it as a combo it should be guaranteed.

I should mention that if hitstun wears off and the opponent does an attack, but you still hit them first, that will also be counted as a "combo" on the hit counter. Which is also technically true because the hit is still guaranteed in that situation but still be careful because it might be different if they try something else.

Training mode also doesn't factor in DI or Vectoring, though, so there's that. *shrug*

She loses every matchup. Like every single one. The only approach option she has is pound, or jump in front and a quick grab, or something spaced. If you focus too much on spacing, you WON'T get a follow up unless know you'll hit, and slide forward with your momentum. Even then, you probably won't get a follow up. Jigglypuff does suck, but does have really good things. Those good things aren't good for this game though. Not good enough to beat 'viable characters'

She deserves D tier

You should never be approaching with Pound unless their shield is already within breaking point. Puff spaces people with Fair and RAR Dair, both of which are safe on shield and offer followups on hit- One of those followups being Rest, which is guaranteed out of Dair if you use it correctly and at the right percents (and Fair with proper spacing).

While she doesn't have quite that many positive matchups, she doesn't really encounter all that many that she absolutely can't handle. Despite struggling against most of them, we can still at least hold our own against the majority of the top characters in the game (one of those being Shiek, who we honestly do better against than most characters can say). That's better than any truly unviable character can boast.

 

[Jerodak]

Training mode also doesn't factor in DI or Vectoring, though, so there's that. *shrug*

Well yes and no. Yes because a CPU does not have the capacity to reactively D.I like a player, no because the Cpu does D.I randomly. So just with that you can determine how much of a factor D.I will have if you're willing to thoroughly test a follow-up multiple times. However, if you want to go a step further, and don't have a partner, you can use a second controller to do a more controlled test. Obviously having a partner is better because human tested combos are the 100% sure thing. It doesn't mean you can't find viable stuff going solo though.

 

[Karsticles]

Training mode also doesn't factor in DI or Vectoring, though, so there's that. *shrug*


You should never be approaching with Pound unless their shield is already within breaking point. Puff spaces people with Fair and RAR Dair, both of which are safe on shield and offer followups on hit- One of those followups being Rest, which is guaranteed out of Dair if you use it correctly and at the right percents (and Fair with proper spacing).

While she doesn't have quite that many positive matchups, she doesn't really encounter all that many that she absolutely can't handle. Despite struggling against most of them, we can still at least hold our own against the majority of the top characters in the game (one of those being Shiek, who we honestly do better against than most characters can say). That's better than any truly unviable character can boast.

Why RAR Dair?

 

[Codaption]

Why RAR Dair?

You COULD do normal Dair, but you'd have to already be almost on top of them and drift away from them. With RAR Dair, you can get the same result and close the distance at the same time. (Plus, since you're going behind them instead of drifting in front of them, you can't really get shield grabbed for your troubles.)

Not really the best at explaining this, though, so it'd be nice if somebody could swoop in and do it better.

 

[Kojii]

I need more dairs and FF uairs in my puffgame, but I'm really bad at using the C-stick.... Any tips?

 

[Jiggly]

I need more dairs and FF uairs in my puffgame, but I'm really bad at using the C-stick.... Any tips?

set jump to L for CStick

 

[Soft Serve]

I need more dairs and FF uairs in my puffgame, but I'm really bad at using the C-stick.... Any tips?

Get better at using the c stick, practice it

 

[Funtroon]

Any idea on how to deal with projectile camping with Puff? Recently, I've been walled by players who consistently abuse projectiles and I find myself being completely overwhelmed by them. It's so frustrating, that it almost made me quit maining Puff, lol.

 

[MisterDom]

Any idea on how to deal with projectile camping with Puff? Recently, I've been walled by players who consistently abuse projectiles and I find myself being completely overwhelmed by them. It's so frustrating, that it almost made me quit maining Puff, lol.

Depends on the character.

Link/toon link? Samus? Robin? Are the campers rolling a lot?

 

[Funtroon]

Samus, Toon Link, Link and Mario. And no, the ones I faced don't have the habit of rolling. The thing is, they usually start going all campy at high percents, making me think twice about approaching.

 

[MisterDom]

Samus, Toon Link, Link and Mario. And no, the ones I faced don't have the habit of rolling. The thing is, they usually start going all campy at high percents, making me think twice about approaching.

I hate when that happens. lol

Either way, if you put pressure in an approach, the player will react somehow, either by escape or a move. For example, most Samus players roll away, so you could get a dair, and Mario will throw out a move. You can bait Mario by a jump air dodge, or just getting very close to him. Some marios also jump when using fireball, so try be close enough to punish him when he's in the air.

Link/toon link are characters you cam't really approach well, but baiting an up smash or uptilt will get us a free pound, or nair, or even a grab if you're fast enough. We also can't combo link as much because of his fast nair, so try getting two or three hits instead of five or something. We can also grab the bombs and you can usually bait a roll by jumping above them, and then a free bair, fair, nair, pound, or maybe even dash attack. Getting spammers off stage is the best way to win becuase their recoveries are often very gimpable. However, they'll probably start spamming more because of the stock diffrence and pressure. Try not to approach without a plan, and if you have a good lead, make them approach because of time pressure. Their approaching will be worse than their projectile game most likely.

 

[Codaption]

Also keep in mind that Pound and Nair can clank with certain projectiles and cancel them out.

 

[Patriot Duck]

Is it common knowledge that Jigglypuff's bair has a sweetspot? I never noticed it until now because it does the same damage as the sourspot.

Edit: This is actually potentially really big. Sweetspot bair puts Sheik into her tumbling animation at as low as 8%. If Sheik misses the tech, Puff can get an Ftilt lock. When I put Sheik's damage at 10%, I was able to pull off sweetspot bair > ftilt lock > dair > rest, and it killed. I'm going to look into this more and report my findings.

Edit 2: Okay, after some testing, I'd like to add some details. With proper spacing, you can extend the lock with a sourspot dash attack, but you risk hitting with the sweetspot and breaking the lock. This is required if you want the rest to kill some of the heavier characters.

For some reason, it is particularly difficult to hit the bair's sweetspot on bigger characters like Bowser or DK. I think the sourspot hitbox takes priority, which is kind of annoying.

 

[Kojii]

Esam says our bro/sis puff is bottom 3 in the game, do you think he's right?

 

[MisterDom]

Esam says our bro/sis puff is bottom 3 in the game, do you think he's right?

Definitely not. She doesn't quite have the Options to beat out higher tier characters easily, and she doesn't win many, (if at all) MUs. She also technically lacks kill setups, and is hard to kill with (most people who don't play jiggly think that you can only rest, edge guard, or bair to kill), but that's not a problem for good Jiggly players. She also lacks a good approach, and grab game. However, she does have an amazing combo game in my opinion, and several combos into rest, which rest alone is a good reason to keep her higher than the worst. She also is the second best ledge guarder in the game in my opinion (behind peach). Because she lacks so many important things for smash 4, she is low on the tier list, but the things she does right, she does DAMN right. A good player will know when to do what, when to not to do this, and use their disadvantages to their advantage. They'll have to be smart with the match-ups, they'll have to have the quickest reflexes for rest and air dodge punishing, and their combo game must be on point. Their punish game must be superb.

Jigglypuff players definitely have to be more skilled than most other players. Jigglypuff does deserve C tier, or maybe high D tier in my opinion, but it doesn't matter to me. She isn't the worst, and she'll never be.

 

[Codaption]

We actually do alright against a lot of top tier characters, though nothing really considered advantageous. So that's nice.

 

[Desu~]

Is it common knowledge that Jigglypuff's bair has a sweetspot? I never noticed it until now because it does the same damage as the sourspot.

I... I can't...

What is that....

What?

 

[drakeirving]

I'm not even sure what you mean with that post. Yes there's a sweetspot; the sourspot provides 0 base knockback while the sweetspot has 30. That's why if you sourspot bair something at 0% it goes nowhere.