Meta Jigglypuff Competitive and Metagame Discussion

[MisterDom]

Yoshi vs yoshi?!

 

[Jiggly]

Yoshi vs yoshi?!

ye

 

[MisterDom]

yoshi wins over Yoshi! I tested with the smash training becuUse I is good at matchup nowledge! It works! I are not scrub!!!!1!!1

 

[Wintermelon43]

yoshi wins over Yoshi! I tested with the smash training becuUse I is good at matchup nowledge! It works! I are not scrub!!!!1!!1

OMG! NOW PEOPLE CAN WIN AT TOURNAEY'S, NOBODY HAS CAN LOSE AGANIST YOSHI!!!! OMG!!!!

 

[Man of shame]

What do you think of the the MU

 

[PandaEffect]

What do you think of the the MU

Not a big fan, he is basically impossible to gimp, doesn't die until at least 150 unless you get a rest at like 70%, and he can kill you with jab. He even out ledge camps us.

Sure he can be a bit of combo fodder but he has better ways to escape juggles compared to other heavies and even if you juggle him until 70% its still an even game even when you are at 0%. Being at last hit situation against him and trying to land a bair is terrifying when he has the same potential to fake aerials with his jumps and smack you with his own back air which will trade or beat your back air.

 

[MisterDom]

What do you think of the the MU

You gotta be careful. Basically, he could easily kill you starting at 60%, and can start at 20% (missed test near ledge >:|)

He can also combo yoh better than other characters, and has a good grab range and sheild, so you can't be too aggressive on a smart DDD player. He also can't be edge guarded well because of super armor on his recovery, so you have to kill him while ledge guarding, or with rest, or something that isn't a ledge guard till he can't return. He's not the best matchup, but he can be comboed somewhat easily.

Stringing moves last longer on DDD. Also if he does the gordo throw, simply nairing into a gordo is fine, because of the hitbox of nair and it sends it back somewhat fast. Resting is also a good idea to take a final stock, or you have a good lead. He dies to rest at ~71%

In the end, play it safe, and aggressive DDD is a bad thing for the opponent, so force him or her to be aggressive! Also, edge guard while DDD is using his jumps because his recovery is weak if he's not right beneath the ledge. Delfino, DK64, and maybe dreamland are good counter picks. Smashville also sorta works. Hope this helped a little.

 

[Man of shame]

I think king deede is one of jigglypuff worst match up if not the worst match up

pros
is combo meat
cant dededecide very well
cons

• has a disjoint
• near impossible to gimp
• can use gordos more frequently then his other match ups due to jiggly not having that moves to reflect gordos(that are safe
• out ranges in grab and attack
• has a strong shield and is harder to combo then most heavy characters
  
• f-smash blocks out some air approaches
  
• a missed rest is almost guarantees to take take a stock from you
• rest is hard to hit because dedede like to have his foes close to his hammer range/grab range and not close to his body.
• can kill you very early
  
• multiple jumps to play mind games on you
• main play very defensively and since he has gordo he will force you to approach him or use gordos(up tilited one) to rush you down
• b-air beats
  
• his crouch is more stylish thencrouch

 

[Soft Serve]

what is DDD's uptilt in smash 4 and how early does it kill puff? I think puff's air mobility makes it possible to get in if you know the MU, but anti air uptilts killing early would scare me. The one time I played this MU I missed a rest at 20 and died to fsmash, would not recommend.

 

[Man of shame]

what is DDD's uptilt in smash 4 and how early does it kill puff? I think puff's air mobility makes it possible to get in if you know the MU, but anti air uptilts killing early would scare me. The one time I played this MU I missed a rest at 20 and died to fsmash, would not recommend.

Up tilt is where he swings his head In as a dedede main I find myself not using this move to kill.Up smash, on the other hand is a very anti air considering it has a disjointed hit-box and covers king dedede's entire body.

 

[Soft Serve]

Up tilt is where he swings his head In as a dedede main I find myself not using this move to kill.Up smash, on the other hand is a very anti air considering it has a disjointed hit-box and covers king dedede's entire body.

uptilt is much faster, but I dont know if it has the same head-dosjoint/good priority anti air properties it had in brawl. If upsmash gets baited though you will get rested

 

[EXOgreyfox]

so I went all the way to loser's semis at evo. but I noticed I mainly struggle against very agressive characters Diddy/fox. any tips with dealing against them? I loss to boringman and flipflophouse.

 

[Man of shame]

uptilt is much faster, but I dont know if it has the same head-dosjoint/good priority anti air properties it had in brawl. If upsmash gets baited though you will get rested

After a few matches against a jigglypuff I can confirm that up tilt is a problem it is very anti air and does 10 or 12%(cant' remember) it very dangerous for .

 

[Jiggly]

This just in: Jigglypuff has a 0 to death combo. It doesn't rely on missed techs, bad DI, or footstools. That is all.

 

[Man of shame]

s

This just in: Jigglypuff has a 0 to death combo. It doesn't rely on missed techs, bad DI, or footstools. That is all.

seems legit

 

[Desu~]

Dedede? Worst MU?

Please, there's so many other characters that is way worse than dedede.

 

[Jiggly]

I think king deede is one of jigglypuff worst match up if not the worst match up

pros
is combo meat
cant dededecide very well
cons

• has a disjoint
• near impossible to gimp
• can use gordos more frequently then his other match ups due to jiggly not having that moves to reflect gordos(that are safe
• out ranges in grab and attack
• has a strong shield and is harder to combo then most heavy characters
  
• f-smash blocks out some air approaches
  
• a missed rest is almost guarantees to take take a stock from you
• rest is hard to hit because dedede like to have his foes close to his hammer range/grab range and not close to his body.
• can kill you very early
  
• multiple jumps to play mind games on you
• main play very defensively and since he has gordo he will force you to approach him or use gordos(up tilited one) to rush you down
• b-air beats
  
• his crouch is more stylish thencrouch

I think the MU is 50-50 imo

-disjoint true, but it's slow and leaves him open.
-Really easy to WoP though
-We have one of the best nair in the games, and it destroys Gordoes
-true, but his low speed and how much he is left open is a trade off
-Not really harder to combo at all, and his shield isn't "stronger"
-fsmash is so slow. fsmash isnt a worry for puff. Might as well say ganon utilt outspaces us
-it is on most characters, not something special to ddd
-lol, no. DDD is combo meat, and his slow moves lead him open to easy rests. Also, if he up-bs and misses the ledge snap, free rest.
-Okay, well we have more jumps, so we can do this better
-Gordo doesnt force us to approach lol
-Bair is slow, crazy landing lag. Free combo
-welp, cant argue there




We have better tools for you, youre combo meat, and a rest magnet. DDD does have good anti-airs and smash attacks, and thats why this MU is pretty even. We are better than DDD, but one wrong move is ouch.

 

[Kojii]

This just in: Jigglypuff has a 0 to death combo. It doesn't rely on missed techs, bad DI, or footstools. That is all.

Please elaborate!

 

[Jiggly]

Please elaborate!

will try to have a giphy tomorrow. It basically is a bunch of combos we knew we had, thrown together.

 

[Kojii]

will try to have a giphy tomorrow. It basically is a bunch of combos we knew we had, thrown together.

Interesting. Sounds heavily DI dependent though :s

 

[drakeirving]

he literally just said it wasn't reliant on bad di

 

[Kojii]

I got a little too excited when I read zero to death combo, so I guess I didn't read the whole thing :v

 

[Jiggly]

The guy who was gonna hmu with the nice replay hasn't done it yet, so here is a current crappy version -_-

 

[MisterDom]

And simple! That Up air at 0% might be a little hard to land though :/

 

[Jiggly]

And simple! That Up air at 0% might be a little hard to land though :/

it is, and you also have to start the dair moving backwards, then move forward at the end, or you wont be fast enough to get the rest after fair.

 

[Jiggly]

 

[Codaption]

Hmmmmm....SHFF'd Uair-> Utilt-> FH'd Dair-> Fair-> Rest. 5 simple moves, one easy kill.

Tell me, though, is it character dependent? Something that complex seems like it wouldn't work on everyone, especially when you factor in DI/VI.

 

[drakeirving]

It isn't DI-able, just like any of the individual strings. Only way you would be able to DI out is if you come out of the dair wrong and hit fair oddly, I think?

 

[Jiggly]

It isn't DI-able, just like any of the individual strings. Only way you would be able to DI out is if you come out of the dair wrong and hit fair oddly, I think?

correct

It only kills a few characters at 0, but it works on all characters at some percent, and you can chain dairs to get it to kill

I dont have a capture card, so it's hard for me to go in depth without taking up someone's time.

 

[Scykoh]

Hey guys, sorry if this isn't a fitting post for this thread.

Anyways, there's something I've wanted to do for a long time and I think I'm going to finally tackle it just for fun and usefulness. It's a massive project so I'm just posting this to see if anyone would want to collaborate on it.

The idea would be to make an extensive encyclopedia on every character and every single move in their move-list and how Jigglypuff can/should deal with it.

For example you'd take __ move and list can Jigglypuff duck under it, what's the optimal punish on shield, can it be punished on whiff, if it's a projectile can her aerials cancel them, if it's a recovery can she gimp it and if so from what spots. You get the idea, just super detailed info on every attack. The reason for making it would be, say you find yourself consistently having tons of trouble with a particular attack, you could look at the encyclopedia, go to that specific move and look up the best way to deal with it, etc.

Again, let me know if any of you are interested in collaborating on something like that! (also if anyone has any links to frame data for any or all characters, that'd be super useful!)

 

[Codaption]

Ohey, it's Scykoh! You're on the wonderful world of of the Youtubes, are you not?

That sounds like a...pretty ambitious project myself, but at the same time it'd be a fantastic idea should it get done. If you're up for the task, go for it! (I'd start with ZSS, as we can duck under a large number of her moves for a potential punish.)

 

[Scykoh]

Ohey, it's Scykoh! You're on the wonderful world of of the Youtubes, are you not?

That sounds like a...pretty ambitious project myself, but at the same time it'd be a fantastic idea should it get done. If you're up for the task, go for it! (I'd start with ZSS, as we can duck under a large number of her moves for a potential punish.)

Hahah, indeed, that's me.

It definitely wouldn't be a project that would happen overnight, if it were ever completely finished at all. I'll probably add to it organically when I find moves that give me trouble, bring them into the lab and figure things out and add it to the database.

 

[MisterDom]

Hahah, indeed, that's me.

It definitely wouldn't be a project that would happen overnight, if it were ever completely finished at all. I'll probably add to it organically when I find moves that give me trouble, bring them into the lab and figure things out and add it to the database.

Hey Scykoh! Love your vids!

I'm always happy to help. I guess if you bring up a move, one move at a time, the project could work. We'll need to make its own thread to share info though... Maybe a moderator could sticky it so all users see it

 

[MisterDom]

A bunch of users bringing up a move for the 14th time though... Could get out of hand :/

 

[Codaption]

@ MisterDom I'd stick those two posts together before the mod checks you for it.

 

[Desu~]

Well I could also give you a hand on that.

We could maybe get ourselves a couple of characters we'd test and we eventually give out our results for it.

...However, I believe there's already a thread about the "things Jigglypuff can crouch under".
We should check the boards carefully to see if it's already done.

But in anyways, if that's the case, then we've already got one thing done.
One of the things that I propose we should take care of would be "How to approach characters with superior frame data".

Because really, Jiggs frame data is not spectacular. At all.

Edit: Technically, it would look a lot like a MU encyclopedia, but we actually try to consider every aspect of the enemy character, from frame data, to what to look out for, to how to deal with x attack, etc.

We should definitively try to discuss everything there is about the Jiggs meta.

 

[MisterDom]

Well I could also give you a hand on that.

We could maybe get ourselves a couple of characters we'd test and we eventually give out our results for it.

...However, I believe there's already a thread about the "things Jigglypuff can crouch under".
We should check the boards carefully to see if it's already done.

But in anyways, if that's the case, then we've already got one thing done.
One of the things that I propose we should take care of would be "How to approach characters with superior frame data".

Because really, Jiggs frame data is not spectacular. At all.

Edit: Technically, it would look a lot like a MU encyclopedia, but we actually try to consider every aspect of the enemy character, from frame data, to what to look out for, to how to deal with x attack, etc.

We should definitively try to discuss everything there is about the Jiggs meta.

Truly. One big meta thread isn't good enough, and I'm fine with your idea with making our own for these specific reasons.

 

[Desu~]

There is already a site where they're uploading frame data for (almost) each characters.

So I would say that's a good start in that domain.

Here's the link: http://kuroganehammer.com/

 

[Jiggly]

Patch this friday: we are either getting no changes, or changes to our throws. I still think we might get dthrow made into a combo throw up until ~50% and maybe uthrow buffed to maybe marth power.

 

[Codaption]

I forsee no changes to us, meaning it's still our job to try and push our meta forward. The encyclopedia sounds like a great idea, and it's something to try for sure.