Meta Jigglypuff Competitive and Metagame Discussion

[Captain Norris]

her third custom rest doesn't spike does it?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

her third custom rest doesn't spike does it?

As far as i know, it doesn't.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Been playing a lot of Jiggs on For Glory today, she's very easy for me to pick up and play and feels great. For the most part I steamrolled opponents, but I found myself having some trouble with Bowser Jr and his Mecha Koopa traps, while Shulk is also a bit pain due to his range, but it's possible to take both of them down given some patience. The only character I never managed to beat was Olimar, what a campfest.

Also, Rest out of shield is as great as some top players have made it out to be, I won several close matches with it, it's very easy to punish people with.

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

Been playing a lot of Jiggs on For Glory today, she's very easy for me to pick up and play and feels great. For the most part I steamrolled opponents, but I found myself having some trouble with Bowser Jr and his Mecha Koopa traps, while Shulk is also a bit pain due to his range, but it's possible to take both of them down given some patience. The only character I never managed to beat was Olimar, what a campfest.

Also, Rest out of shield is as great as some top players have made it out to be, I won several close matches with it, it's very easy to punish people with.

I found Shulk very exploitable with f-air camp and then rest out of shield. I agree that Bowser Jr is a pain at this point, hes got awkwardly long range attacks that stay out long. They only character that I have a ton of troubles with so far is Little Mac, I know all I need to do is Bair or Fair near the ledge but I always get hit by his dash attacks.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I found Shulk very exploitable with f-air camp and then rest out of shield. I agree that Bowser Jr is a pain at this point, hes got awkwardly long range attacks that stay out long. They only character that I have a ton of troubles with so far is Little Mac, I know all I need to do is Bair or Fair near the ledge but I always get hit by his dash attacks.

I hear that a lot of people have problems with Little Mac in general. You just have to play very passively and wait for a golden opportunity to throw him up in the air or off-stage, it's not your job to approach him, you just need to punish him at every opportunity. I love playing against Little Mac honestly, it's tons of fun.

 

[*JuriHan*]

lol her custom rest looks so ridiculous animation wise...

on topic, does any1 know any legit follow ups to her d-air if any? It seems if you end the move on the ground you can be punished if your opponent is quick about it... but d-air hits a lot more now... can do about 14%

 

[Jigglymaster]

lol her custom rest looks so ridiculous animation wise...

on topic, does any1 know any legit follow ups to her d-air if any? It seems if you end the move on the ground you can be punished if your opponent is quick about it... but d-air hits a lot more now... can do about 14%

I don't think there are any follow ups to the move. However, it doesn't really need it, its an excellent way to punish with a lot of damage out of shield when you can't kill with rest yet. It sucks in the opponent so you're pretty much guaranteed the 14%. It's great.

On another note, Jumping Rest is actually pretty god-like and can be a side-grade to the original rest. What I mean by this is if you're fighting opponents that you can't really shield rest or actually land rest at all, then this move is for you. Basically at like 80% or so, down throw, up throw, and up tilt to rest will be a true combo and will KILL. It basically sends the opponent up really high and then Jigglypuff shoots up and hits them with the tip of the rest, its not strong but when the opponent is hit so high up it kills. It's actually pretty ridiculous.

Seriously, just go to training mode, fight against fox and have him at 80%. Do up tilt then immediately rest, it will kill.

 

[Haptic]

Hi all,

I have never played Jigglypuff in a Smash game before, but am loving her so far in Smash 4. However, I'm not doing too well with her in For Glory. Are there any videos I can watch to help me get accustomed to her? Do you have any Sm4sh-specific advice?

What is the correct way to Rest OoS? Is it the crouch-canceled SH Rest I saw in a video somewhere? And how do you kill as Jiggs if you're not getting any Rest opportunities? What are your options after u-throwing someone? I have so many questions...

 

[Jigglymaster]

Hi all,

I have never played Jigglypuff in a Smash game before, but am loving her so far in Smash 4. However, I'm not doing too well with her in For Glory. Are there any videos I can watch to help me get accustomed to her? Do you have any Sm4sh-specific advice?

What is the correct way to Rest OoS? Is it the crouch-canceled SH Rest I saw in a video somewhere? And how do you kill as Jiggs if you're not getting any Rest opportunities? What are your options after u-throwing someone? I have so many questions...

As Jigglypuff I find myself dashing around on the ground constantly pulling up my shield, I'll just tap it and won't hold it for very long at all, when an opponent comes near me, I simply shield their attack, and then immediately rest them. Usually when they do Smash attacks or if they try to hit me with an aerial attack. Landing D-air as a punish works really well too since it has a really high damage output, and because you're Jigglypuff, its generally safe on shield. I haven't really been focusing on any rest combos, Rest of shield has been enough for me to get the wins. Currently 33-0 on For Glory.


On a side note, these are two custom movesets I've came up with that I think work best for puff.

Custom Moveset 1: "Buff'd Puff"
B: Rollout (1)
Side: Sideways Pound (2)
Up: Hyper Voice (2)
Down: Rest (1)

This moveset I personally think directly buff's puff, as the title says. The moveset doesn't necessarily compliment each other or anything but they're what I think, straight up-grades to the original moves. Hyper voice should almost always be the go to used attack over sing, as it gives ledge canceled sing a purpose. Sideways pound is also in my opinion the best pound in the game. I say this because the horizontal knockback it gives is so good for setting up gimping. Regular pound already doesn't help you recover, its laggy as hell and it doesn't give you very much reward, this move does and while situational, it gets the job done.


Custom Moveset 2: Air-Force
B: Rollout (1)
Side: Pound Blitz (3)
Up: Hyper Voice (2)
Down: Leaping Rest (2)

This moveset is specifically designed to aid Leaping Rest. The reason why I choose Pound Blitz over Sideways Pound despite me thinking the latter is best pound in the game, is simply due to the fact that the former move's last hit sends the opponent directly UP. Why is this important you ask? Well because you can combo into leaping rest! Yes thats right, if you're opponent is at high percent, throw a Pound Blitz at them, send them right above your head, and kill them with leaping rest! Even the game thinks its a combo so thats very good to know. Regular pound still isn't used due to the fact that while it sends up upwards, it doesn't send you directly upwards, and thats a problem. So these two moves work really well together imo. This moveset is a good alternative for when you just can't find that moment to rest your opponent, or if you think they're too good for you to land rest on. As at around 100% or so depending on the character weight, you should be able to up throw, down throw, or up tilt to rest as a kill combo, note if you do down throw you have to run forward a little bit to catch them. This version of Rest is not meant to be hit from the base, while that still works, you fall asleep for much longer, so be careful.

I'll come up with more moveset options in the future, but this is all I've got right now. I need to put more lab time into Wakie Wakie (Rest 3), Spinphony (Sing 3), and the other two rollouts.


Actually lastly, let me just give you the names of all Jigglypuff's English custom moves

Rollout
Relentless Rollout
Raging Rollout

Pound
Sideways Pound
Pound Blitz

Sing
Hyper Voice
Spinphony

Rest
Leaping Rest
Wakie Wakie

 

[Haptic]

One big question I have is this:

When approaching, how do you choose your option between f-air/b-air and Pound? When is it correct to use Pound? When you think they're going to shield it? What are Jiggs' best approaching options in general? Or is she supposed to be more about waiting for enemy mistakes?

Do you have any replays from your 33-0 streak, Jigglymaster?

 

[DarkKry4]

Actually lastly, let me just give you the names of all Jigglypuff's English custom moves

Rollout
Relentless Rollout
Raging Rollout

Pound
Sideways Pound
Pound Blitz

Sing
Hyper Voice
Spinphony

Rest
Leaping Rest
Wakie Wakie

any video showcasing these custom moves? i haven't gotten the game and i only plan on buying the WiiU version.

 

[Jigglymaster]

One big question I have is this:

When approaching, how do you choose your option between f-air/b-air and Pound? When is it correct to use Pound? When you think they're going to shield it? What are Jiggs' best approaching options in general? Or is she supposed to be more about waiting for enemy mistakes?

Do you have any replays from your 33-0 streak, Jigglymaster?

I have replays but I don't have any way to get it from the 3ds to the computer. At least I don't know how to.

As for the approaching question, never use pound to approach, its a terribly slow move, even slower than it was in brawl, and you will almost always get punished for it. B-air, Drill, and N-air are your best approach options. IN this game its generally about running and shielding, Jiggly is a very ground based character oddly enough in this game.

any video showcasing these custom moves? i haven't gotten the game and i only plan on buying the WiiU version.

 

[Haptic]

I have replays but I don't have any way to get it from the 3ds to the computer. At least I don't know how to.

As for the approaching question, never use pound to approach, its a terribly slow move, even slower than it was in brawl, and you will almost always get punished for it. B-air, Drill, and N-air are your best approach options. IN this game its generally about running and shielding, Jiggly is a very ground based character oddly enough in this game.

I know some people will just start the replay and record it from their phone. If your cell has a decent enough camera, you could do this.

I will remember not to use Pound to approach. What are it's uses then? I have been using it to momentum-cancel when flying off the stage as well, is this a correct use? And how about f-air for approaching? Does n-air have a longer range than f-air?

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

I know some people will just start the replay and record it from their phone. If your cell has a decent enough camera, you could do this.

I will remember not to use Pound to approach. What are it's uses then? I have been using it to momentum-cancel when flying off the stage as well, is this a correct use? And how about f-air for approaching? Does n-air have a longer range than f-air?

Pound works wonders on sheilds, like it does over 50% of the shields health. The only downside is it has a long end lag and can be grabbed. One of the main uses for it is horizontal recovery if you don't want to use up your jumps. Say you chase someone off stage using 3 jumps, it would take 3 jumps to get back so you would rather save the jumps and use pounds to get back.

I approach with fair a lot because it has decent knockback and pretty low landing lag. Although if I'm playing a semi defensive style I will use nair more because it has a small hotbox behind you, stays out longer, and clanks with certain projectiles.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I know some people will just start the replay and record it from their phone. If your cell has a decent enough camera, you could do this.

I will remember not to use Pound to approach. What are it's uses then? I have been using it to momentum-cancel when flying off the stage as well, is this a correct use? And how about f-air for approaching? Does n-air have a longer range than f-air?

Hmm, I never thought of using it as momentum cancelling, I'll have to try that out. As an attack, all your other attacks are just flat out better and safer. The only time I've seen myself using pound is for Pound Blitz (Pound Custom 3) into Leaping Rest as a combo around 120%.

 

[Haptic]

Hmm, I never thought of using it as momentum cancelling, I'll have to try that out. As an attack, all your other attacks are just flat out better and safer. The only time I've seen myself using pound is for Pound Blitz (Pound Custom 3) into Leaping Rest as a combo around 120%.

So you almost never find yourself using Pound, at all? Why is n-air such a good approach? It seems like its hit-box is very small, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Jigglymaster]

So you almost never find yourself using Pound, at all? Why is n-air such a good approach? It seems like its hit-box is very small, but maybe I'm wrong.

N-air is out for very long and you can strafe with it. A lot of aerials are very unsafe in this game and you need to be able to space your attacks well, this especially comes in handy with n-air, it also has a very fast start up. I usually see myself using it alot in the neutral game, unlike pound. Whenever I use pound I almost always get hit for it.

 

[Haptic]

N-air is out for very long and you can strafe with it. A lot of aerials are very unsafe in this game and you need to be able to space your attacks well, this especially comes in handy with n-air, it also has a very fast start up. I usually see myself using it alot in the neutral game, unlike pound. Whenever I use pound I almost always get hit for it.

And what is your opinion of f-air? CrazyCupofJoe seems to like it.

 

[lRasha]

Hello everyone! I don't have the game and I do not main Jigglypuff, but I do look forward to playing her. I often look in the Jigglypuff character section as well. Here's my thing with Jigglypuff: I want to be able to utilize her Special moves (B moves). Does anyone see a competitive Jigglypuff being able to do this in Smash 4? This is what I notice

Pound can somewhat help you recover (as a recovery move, it was better in Brawl). It can break sheilds. It might take like 2-3 tries (???). After that, a Jigglypuff can use Rest. Cool. On the downside, Pound has lag that is punishable. If I use Pound and it hits an unsheilded opponent, that seems fine. If I use it on a shielded opponent, their shield diminishes, but am I still likely to get hit afterwards? If I cut someone's Shield by 50%, how long does it take for their shield to recover? What are the odds of me getting in two Pound moves quick enough to totally break their shield?

In this game, I haven't seen Rollout that much, but I have seen it used. In Brawl, I thought of it being predictable. I did, however, think that the possibility of getting ANY fully charged attack is slim. This is an odd comparison, but it sort of reminds me of Falcon Punch / Ganon Punch. Sometimes you can kind of see it coming, but I guess you have to time it right and/or catch an opponent off guard? With Rollout, would I need to do the same? Should I do a semi-charged Rollout with good timing that is quick enough to land a hit?

I've heard people talk about ledge-cancelling with Sing. I've never done that so it's worth a try. Besides that technique, in Brawl it didn't seem to have other uses. I know that the higher the opponents damage, the longer they sleep. I don't remember it being enough to be useful. I'd like to see how that is in this game now. I also read something in the "Is Sing Useless?" thread about using Sing when a person is coming up from a ledge. His name is Downsider and I'll quote his post.

I've used it twice so far, and both times I was able to combo into rest. Both times I used it in a situation where I thought my opponent would use a get-up attack from the ledge.

If they DO use a get-up attack from the ledge, you can put them to sleep during their get up animation before the attack comes out, at least on Captain Falcon. Then, if you activated it early enough, you will have enough time to combo into rest.

For Rest, when a Jigglypuff player lands a successful Rest that kills, it's AWESOME. I've read in this forum about Jigglypuff being able to crouch attacks and use Rest afterwards. I've read about the Up-Tilt to Rest technique. I thought I read about the D-air to Rest doesn't quite work? Or at least not as good as previous Smash games. It seems pretty hopeful for Jiggs to make her way into Resting an opponent.

So once again, does anyone see a competitive Jigglypuff being able to use all of her special moves in Smash 4? Are there any ways that Pound, Rollout, and Sing can work for her rather than against her? It seems like she's the type of character that REALLY needs to pay attention to timing and quickly seeing/using open opportunities. Thanks for reading!

 

[Haptic]

I need some video footage to watch or someone's friend code to add and play with, because I'm just ruining my win/loss record trying to practice in For Glory. None of my approaches seem safe. I just played against a Wario who would just use his Chomp any time I came close, and it out-prioritized all of my approaches and ate me. That same guy also played Ganondorf, Zero Suit Samus, and Mario, and the only one I won against was ZSS.

How exactly does Rest work, too? In practice mode or in the sandbag stage before each match, I will practice it and it will work, but then the same thing doesn't work for me when I try to punish people OoS in real games. It's just shield -> short-hop into them -> Rest, right?? I don't get why it's not working.

 

[Rayopuff]

I don't know why but I found myself being safer on the ground just rolling and shielding than actually staying in the air, I felt very uneasy staying in the air against many characters, It worked wonders against a Lucina I played against, my main issue is also approaching, I never felt like I had a safe approach, I tried fairs but it soon became predictable and I suck at approaching with bairs, all in all, I just need to figure out how to have a safe approach.

 

[DarkKry4]

its a shame we can't use that multi pound online T_T

only because i almost always used pound as a recovery in Brawl and the new default pound doesn't do that anymore.

goodbye to going to underneath the stage and using my final smash.

I don't know why but I found myself being safer on the ground just rolling and shielding than actually staying in the air, I felt very uneasy staying in the air against many characters, It worked wonders against a Lucina I played against, my main issue is also approaching, I never felt like I had a safe approach, I tried fairs but it soon became predictable and I suck at approaching with bairs, all in all, I just need to figure out how to have a safe approach.

oh no! what i most enjoyed about playing with her was her floaty-ness, insane recovery, and her air game. aside from bair, i hope her air game wasn't nerfed in order to give her buffs in other areas though maybe its the state of how the game plays now is rather than Jiggs (aka less air game for everyone?)

 

[Kinglypuff]

Jigglypuff's air game is still really good, but it's too easy for a character to shield her aerials and then go for an attack or a grab. That's one of the main problems I faced.

 

[Soft Serve]

So the ground game in this smash is so bad (I'm spoiled from melee) that I gave up on it and am enjoying floating and zoning with puff.

Puff feels like melee, but with worse uair and dair, but you can't get punished as hard which is fantastic.
I think she has some horrid match ups though. Duck hunt, rosalina, pacman, Lucina marth and Yoshi are all going to bop her, I'll bet on it.

Important and strong things that I suggest people familiarize themselves with:
Don't use Bair if it isn't going to kill or set up an aerial carry off stage. It's too strong now to really combo into anything, and if it goes stale early your kill power dies.
REMEMBER THAT USING AN AERIAL LET'S YOU CONTROL YOUR DRIFT MORE. It's been like this in every smash game for multi jump character. Very important for weaving and bait punishing.
Building upon the above, you can jump in one direction, drift back to bait something, then nair and drift back in. This sort of movement is incredibly important to be effective imo, because it keeps metnal pressure and leaves them feeling like their options are getting smothered.
Weak nair/fair are the main combo linking tools. They don't always combo but are fantastic frame traps. You need to condition the opponent to do the escape you want them too. If you land with it, tilts and rest work fantastic if they dont go for shields, this also works as a punish if you bait out an airdodge and you can punish the 20 frames of landing lag with whaterr you want. If you condition them to shield after a weak aerial approach, grab them and get free dmg and more pressure. If you read a jump out you can jump yourself and uair or rest or even nair to repeat the situation.

It's important to know which one of nair or fair are stale because they are your main moves. If stale they are better trap and combo tools, if fresh they set up for carry and net you more positioning.

Weak nair>tilt is amazing.

Edge guarding is really important, you have to read/recognize if they are going high or low and position yourselves accordingly ahead of time because puff has slow vertical mobility. Weak nair and fairs are great for harrassment off stage, and if bair/nair/fair are fresh the strong hits kill pretty early when close to the blastzones.

If you want to learn or work on how to approach, watch hbox. Both sm4sh footage and melee, she has to get in the same ways and her movements are nearly identical.

I'm still learning this character myself but I think she's decent. Depending on what characters become top tier, she could be anywhere from high to lower mid tier. If campy characters become top she won't be able to get in.
Duck hunt dog feels unwinnable, when they set up properly with the can and cover approaches from above well its impossible to get in imo.

Can't wait go bounce ideas around with you guys. It's a new style of game for me but I'm starting to enjoy it.


OHH EDIT THIS IS REALLY GOOD TECH:
Jump>airdodge >nair/fair is fantastic as a tool to work into your game. It's the weave game equivalent to sptododge > d smash imo.

Also everyone needs to do the mango nairs, which is weak nair drifting as a shield cross-up.

 

[Zigoon95]

One thing I don't like about the new Jigglypuff: why, if Rollout strikes in the air, Jiggly drops slowly and inexorably down? D:
Also, during online matches Rollout gets hard to perform. I committed suicide a bunch of times because it traveled off the stage.

The rest of it is amazing. Even with Pikachu, Greninja and Ness, Jiggly remains my main.

 

[Rend4125]

Im not sure if this has been mentioned, but i feel like i may have found a viable option for jigglys sing. Since she can sing and grab ledge at the same time, i also noticed that if my opponent is standing too close to the ledge i put them to sleep, grab ledge get up and rest them.

 

[Exegguter]

Yo I'm NOT feeling Jiggs in this game, she has ass range. Bair kills ok. But it has terrible range. Uair has terrible range, dair leaves no mixups on hit. Rest combos are not viable above 60% (which results in never killing).

Rollout is stupid on hit.

Her recovery has been nerfed a lot.

Most important; her ass range and priority.

What am I missing?

 

[Kalierdarke]

Yo I'm NOT feeling Jiggs in this game, she has *** range. Bair kills ok. But it has terrible range. Uair has terrible range, dair leaves no mixups on hit. Rest combos are not viable above 60% (which results in never killing).

Rollout is stupid on hit.

Her recovery has been nerfed a lot.

Most important; her *** range and priority.

What am I missing?

Sounds like skill.

Rollout has never been that great, so you can't really complain about it sucking once again, be glad it's not death if you roll off the edge now.

Rest OoS still works above 60%, and manually aimed rests have always been doable.

The range is only a problem if you jump into your opponent's attacks, rather than baiting the attack and punishing. But any character will have trouble if you run headfirst into a punch.

It's just like any character fighting, say, duck hunt, only trade avoiding the ranged attack to avoiding the close range attack. Don't just run headfirst into it. The only problem I've had, at all, with puff's range is against Samus, and that's just because I'm not used to her close combat not being complete crap.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Well, I'm adding Jigglypuff to my lineup of mains. Welcome to the main-line, Jigs.

I'm throwing this out there: Jigs losses 90-10 to Marth. Jig's shield-shatter mechanic losses to her always having to block Marth's onslaught that can kill her in around 10 hits in the air. And Shield Breaker's buff sure, totally helps Jigglypuff. I give her the 10 for her ability to get hits off, like Bair, but god damn Marth's buff.

Outside of Marth, she does decent against the rest of the lineup (except Lucina, but she's a more balanced Marth). Rest going back to Melee's mechanics is a good thing for her and can make her more in the ranks in competitive play. Just, look out for Marth counter picks. That would be bad.

 

[Exegguter]

Sounds like skill.

Rollout has never been that great, so you can't really complain about it sucking once again, be glad it's not death if you roll off the edge now.

Rest OoS still works above 60%, and manually aimed rests have always been doable.

The range is only a problem if you jump into your opponent's attacks, rather than baiting the attack and punishing. But any character will have trouble if you run headfirst into a punch.

It's just like any character fighting, say, duck hunt, only trade avoiding the ranged attack to avoiding the close range attack. Don't just run headfirst into it. The only problem I've had, at all, with puff's range is against Samus, and that's just because I'm not used to her close combat not being complete crap.

Why are you implying that I'm a bad player only because I'm not feeling Jiggs? Trust me it's deff. not skill.

She gets completely outpoket by 60% of the cast.

Please show me video proof of a rest combo above 60%.

Puff can't approach against a lot of characters. Plus all of her air attacks have lag. She's to risky with not so big rewards.

 

[Kalierdarke]

Why are you implying that I'm a bad player only because I'm not feeling Jiggs? Trust me it's deff. not skill.

She gets completely outpoket by 60% of the cast.

Please show me video proof of a rest combo above 60%.

Puff can't approach against a lot of characters. Plus all of her air attacks have lag. She's to risky with not so big rewards.

I did not say you was a bad player, I said you was bad with jiggs.

Outpoked huh, again, I've played against every character, and the only character I have had any problems at all against in close range is samus.

I never said rest combos existed above 60%, I said you could still rest out of shield and manual rest above 60%. learn to read.

Puff can approach just fine against most characters, only having trouble against characters with fast attacks, at which point you just have to play smarter. You cannot use the same tactics against every character, or against every opponent, and expect them to work 100% of the time. Hell, you can't even repeat the same tricks for the entire match, any good player will learn what you're doing. Every character, and every opponent, has to be approached differently.

 

[Exegguter]

I did not say you was a bad player, I said you was bad with jiggs.

Outpoked huh, again, I've played against every character, and the only character I have had any problems at all against in close range is samus.

I never said rest combos existed about 60%, I said you could still rest out of shield and manual rest above 60%. learn to read.

Puff can approach just fine against most characters, only having trouble against characters with fast attacks, at which point you just have to play smarter.

I did not say you was a bad player, I said you was bad with jiggs.

Outpoked huh, again, I've played against every character, and the only character I have had any problems at all against in close range is samus.

I never said rest combos existed above 60%, I said you could still rest out of shield and manual rest above 60%. learn to read.

Puff can approach just fine against most characters, only having trouble against characters with fast attacks, at which point you just have to play smarter. You cannot use the same tactics against every character, or against every opponent, and expect them to work 100% of the time. Hell, you can't even repeat the same tricks for the entire match, any good player will learn what you're doing. Every character, and every opponent, has to be approached differently.

I was a good Jiggs main in brawl where she was ass. There are still vids of me on YouTube. But thats not the point.

Just because you've played against all the characters (lame argument) doesn't counter it. Shulk/marth/lucina/Ike/dk/jr/Palutena(??)/sheik/yoshi/dhd/wario/g&w etc. all outpoke/outpcamp jiggs.

Of course you can't play the same against every character, what kind of counter is that. Just saying that she has troubles coming in due to her bad range.

Just because rollout was ****ty in brawl doesn't mean I should not be complaining about it. Being a ****ty move doesn't justify being a ****ty move in each game. Look at zelda's upb buff for example (her upb wasn't that shotty in previous games)

 

[san.]

The biggest thing messing me up with Jiggs is that aerials cancel your fastfall. I also learned how much I relied on abusing air dodge invincibility from Brawl. She is pretty difficult to use on the 3DS like you want.

 

[Kalierdarke]

I was a good Jiggs main in brawl where she was ***. There are still vids of me on YouTube. But thats not the point.

Just because you've played against all the characters (lame argument) doesn't counter it. Shulk/marth/lucina/Ike/dk/jr/Palutena(??)/sheik/yoshi/dhd/wario/g&w etc. all outpoke/outpcamp jiggs.

Of course you can't play the same against every character, what kind of counter is that. Just saying that she has troubles coming in due to her bad range.

Just because rollout was ****ty in brawl doesn't mean I should not be complaining about it. Being a ****ty move doesn't justify being a ****ty move in each game. Look at zelda's upb buff for example (her upb wasn't that shotty in previous games)

You know, I was just trying to state some things, no need to throw a tantrum and start throwing around masked profanities.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Jigglypuff has always had range issues (esp on ground,) but her air mobility + good aerials (combined with having good spacing) makes up for it

struggling to land rest over 60% is nothing new, that's how it was in smash64 but punishes will work at any %.

Also, her b-air is so good and easy to kill with now, it's not like rest is her only option to net a kill...

lol my problem with this character is how many inputs she takes to use, she's gonna kill my pikachu3ds circle pad! D:

 

[Exegguter]

Jigglypuff has always had range issues (esp on ground,) but her air mobility + good aerials (combined with having good spacing) makes up for it

struggling to land rest over 60% is nothing new, that's how it was in smash64 but punishes will work at any %.

Also, her b-air is so good and easy to kill with now, it's not like rest is her only option to net a kill...

lol my problem with this character is how many inputs she takes to use, she's gonna kill my pikachu3ds circle pad! D:

Of course that's true. But how will you space well if your main space tools have been nerfed. Bair is no longer able to be done twice in a shorthop that's how slow it is now. So after bair retreats you're dealing with lag which makes this space tool less safe.

Uair lacks range so you'll barely hit with it unless you have momentum. Dair is laggy on hit and leaves no mixups anymore whatsoever.

Rest punishment is nice, but really hard against good players. Rest oos isn't that common either since you won't be spending a lot of time on the ground. The difference with melee is also that people would actually die from it at low % which makes the risk way more rewarding and gave it a way bigger comeback potential.

I hope that playing her with the gc controller will change things a bit, but I doubt it. I wonder how she will ever appproach characters like zss/yoshi/marth/lucina.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Of course that's true. But how will you space well if your main space tools have been nerfed. Bair is no longer able to be done twice in a shorthop that's how slow it is now. So after bair retreats you're dealing with lag which makes this space tool less safe.

Uair lacks range so you'll barely hit with it unless you have momentum. Dair is laggy on hit and leaves no mixups anymore whatsoever.

Rest punishment is nice, but really hard against good players. Rest oos isn't that common either since you won't be spending a lot of time on the ground. The difference with melee is also that people would actually die from it at low % which makes the risk way more rewarding and gave it a way bigger comeback potential.

I hope that playing her with the gc controller will change things a bit, but I doubt it. I wonder how she will ever appproach characters like zss/yoshi/marth/lucina.

You do make good points here. And I agree d-air hits better for more damage but lack of follow ups is a disappointment (and if you misspace and end on the ground you will be punished.) I think Puff will be playing very, very lame against certain characters... very hit and run style but at least she can kill if you don't stale certain moves.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

Rest punishment is nice, but really hard against good players. Rest oos isn't that common either since you won't be spending a lot of time on the ground.

I'd just like to point out that we actually spend more time on the ground in ssb4(i think mainly from our reduced recovery), and most of our aerial time is spent short hopping to gain space. So we have quite a few OoS rest opportunities(OoS SH rest).

 

[Krynxe]

I'd just like to point out that we actually spend more time on the ground in ssb4(i think mainly from our reduced recovery), and most of our aerial time is spent short hopping to gain space. So we have quite a few OoS rest opportunities(OoS SH rest).

This is the truth. People keep acting like Puff has an aerial game so insane that she doesn't need to be on that ground, and that's incredibly wrong. It's just when puff chooses/needs to be the aggressor, it will most often be with an aerial because her approach options on the floor are literally just shield, grab, or dash attacking if you feel confident it will hit. In general though, acting out of shield is Puff's best option. Shielding a lot also makes your opponent feel more inclined to grab, which gives you tons of fairs OoS against them. They try to adapt and roll more, which is where nairs start becoming amazing. So on, so forth, but it all starts by being patient and grounded

 

[Desu~]

We should get some frame data and hitbox data about Jiggs moveset.
Because I've been pondering about this for a while.

-Yes, bair knocks back and kills now, but startup seems fairly slower now and I've got this feeling that the hitbox has been moved slightly higher than usual, I whiffed most of the time my fast fall bairs at a scrubby tournament.

-While uair is faster now, I just can't seem to link it to another uair. Does it have some kind of new cooldown animation and you have to wait until you can jump into another uair?

Up until now, only thing im able to link right now with Jiggs is that uair into utilt into Rest, but it's usually low % and, considering the high cellings in this game, kills rarely.
I managed to link 2 bairs at one point. Was probably on the mid 20% or something. Nothing important, sure, just wanted to report that.
That and whiffing the directional pounds into rest or sing.
I understand what Jigglymaster meant by "being nearly unplayable on 3DS".