MattDotZeb
Smash Hero
I saw some people discussing this in the APEX video thread and I figure it may be better to have it in it's own topic.
I think Jaxel makes some good points, and some TOs should consider listening to what he and other members within the FGC have to say about how Smash tournaments are run.
What do you all think?
You can watch the video here:
Starting at 17:30
Or you can read what he and the other person commentating were saying.
I didn't know the name of the other person, so I have dubbed him "Team Rocket Shirt" or TRS
I think Jaxel makes some good points, and some TOs should consider listening to what he and other members within the FGC have to say about how Smash tournaments are run.
What do you all think?
You can watch the video here:
Starting at 17:30
Or you can read what he and the other person commentating were saying.
I didn't know the name of the other person, so I have dubbed him "Team Rocket Shirt" or TRS
Jaxel:
Alright. Let me put this point out there. I'll answer any questions you have about APEX. I'm probably going to end up throwing someone under the bus. Whoever you are that I'm probably going to end up throwing under the bus. I'm sorry, that doesn't mean I'm not your friend anymore. If someone ****s up, I'm going to call them out on it. Even if I'm their best friend. Don't take this personally, but you ****ed up. Okay, ask away.
Team Rocket Shirt:
Why the hell weren't there enough people to actually run this second room with marvel, street fighter, and mortal kombat? Where was everybody? Why did we have go hunt down to find people to run our tournament, and they didn't run it anyway? We had to get Local Battles to run our tournament.
Jaxel:
There were actually two different groups of people running APEX. There was the APEX crew and Juice Gaming. The APEX crew ran only Smash. Pretty much they ran the Smash stuff. Smash ran great. It was a 3-day event with 1000 people and it only ran 3 hours behind. That is amazing. That doesn't happen. APEX was ran perfectly, the Smash community never really had an event like this so they think it was run poorly. They don't know. It was run great. They just don't know. But because of how much work they were putting in to running Smash, they hired a different group of people to run the 2Ds. They hired Juice Gaming. And I don't know what went wrong, but Brandon, one of the cofounders of Juice, fell apart. He was not getting **** done. Two weeks beforehand we told Brandon the schedule doesn't make sense. That it was not going to work. The entire time he was like "No, this is fine. This is how we gotta do it. Trust me I know what we're doing." and clearly something went wrong, it did not work how it was supposed to work. And at the same time, the APEX 2d event was nowhere near as bad as the way Seasons Beatings is run. But nobody holds Seasons Beatings accountable as much as they hold APEX accountable. *discussion trashing Seasons Beatings that I didn't want to type up goes here*
But because APEX was a Smash event and not an FGC event people are holding them to a much higher standard. And I don't know- Well, I know why. That's why. They shouldn't be.
APEX sort of reaffirmed my opinions on the Smash community. When I was still running the Naruto events I was asked all the time to run Smash events. There's no god damn way I'd run a Smash event. Now that being said, not only did it reaffirm my opinions of the Smash community, it reaffirmed the bad opinions and the good opinions. For instance, the Smash community, they got their **** together. Someone says, lets say MarlinPie was in the Smash community, someone says "MarlinPie you gotta be here at 9am." If MarlinPie was part of the Smash community he'd be there at 9am. The Smash community is on time. Like I said, 3-day event 1000 people only 3 hours behind. That is god-like. The 2d community can't do that. "MarlinPie you gotta be here at 10am" MarlinPie shows up at 2 and then complains when he gets DQ'd.
Team Rocket Shirt:
Real talk, I was saying this earlier. Show up to your ****ing matches. I come from a PC gaming community. If you're 15 minutes late from match-time, you are DQ'd. You're out. That's the way it was. They let it slide here in the fighting game community.
Jaxel:
Now if you look at the new 8wayrun Soul Calibur 5 rules that I've already put up, they have specific rules for DQing. I want to make sure that TOs don't feel bad for DQing people. I want to make sure they know you have to DQ people.
Now where was I. Reaffirming my opinions of the Smash community. Like I said, they're on point. They get their **** done. But at the same time, the Smash community is very insular. They play Smash, and they only play Smash.
Team Rocket Shirt:
A couple of them play Marvel.
Jaxel:
Yeah, but the ones who play Marvel left Smash to play Marvel. 6 of the top 8 in Marvel were all from the Smash community, and only 2 of them still played Smash.
Team Rocket Shirt:
On a side note, 6 of the top 8 at APEX also ran Wesker.
Jaxel:
So back to what I was saying, the Smash community only plays Smash. And because of it, they don't want to see anything else. On the stream we had 40 hours of Smash, and 5 hours of FGC. They acted like we had just shot their mothers or something.
TRS:
Until Marvel came out. They were hype for Marvel.
Jaxel:
They were hype for Marvel because it was all Smash players.
TRS:
Like when Alukard came on they were going berserk.
Jaxel:
There's another thing with the Smash community. Lets say you only have 20 TVs for an event. You have 15 TVs for Smash, and you start stratifying your event start-ups so you can start reallocating TVs -- actually if you were smart that's how you'd do it. Brandon was not doing that in the original schedule and that's why we were telling Brandon that it was not going to work. There were no stratified starts. Everything was set to start at the exact same time. Which doesn't make any sense, because you need like 60 TVs at start and by the end you're down to 4 TVs and the rest are completely unused. But back to Smash. The problems with that is Smash doesn't like having people take their TVs away. Let's say you have 15 TVs for Smash, and then once Smash gets down to 8 TVs you put those TVs aside for other games so you can get those tournaments started. The Smash community says "**** that ****, we need these TVs for casuals." This is a tournament. There's no god damn casuals. But the Smash community is so used to having casuals - I'm sorry, any Smash people who are watching. You call them "friendlies." What a dumb ****ing name. **** your friendlies, they're casuals. - But like, you take their casual TVs away and they'll throw a fit. That's generally why I said I will never run a Smash event because they will get uptight about that.
TRS:
You know what they were doing too? They just started picking up their **** and putting it in the next room. They were setting up in our room. Like get the **** out of here, this is our room.
Jaxel:
Like I said they can run tournaments really well. They just can't.. the players, they're a bunch of, you know, juvenile... No I wouldn't say they're delinquents.
But like I said, they can run ****. Their event was run great. What got ****ed up was the 2d ****. The 2d community can't run events. [What happened at]APEX, is not unique to APEX.
TRS:
They can't run events. If we had honestly planned to have even 2 people to run the tournament... For APEX, for the amount that we had, all you needed was 1 person with a laptop on this side, and 1 person with a laptop on this side.
Jaxel:
That's what I'm talking about. Juice Gaming, Brandon, was supposed to be running the 2ds. He wasn't. That's why it fell apart.
TRS:
We had to find people to run the tournament for us. That's when Local Battles stepped their game up. Shoutouts to Local Battles. They did their ****. I have so much respect for them right now. They didn't have a 2nd laptop, so we had to do it on 1.
Jaxel:
Another thing the Smash community does that I don't think they should be doing: they have a rule in their tournaments that allows coaching. You look at the FGC, no coaching allowed on stage. If you look at all the streams there was always an extra player per side just sitting there. Sometimes the coach would sit there and do nothing, they just had a good seat. But if you look at grand finals there was one guy the entire time whispering the entire match, and that guy's ******. The coach is just telling him "He didn't do this, pay attention to that. Pay attention to that." Because of the coaching, because it's specifically in the rules, matches take double the time. Now you have to take 3-4 minutes between each round to discuss things with the coach. In the FGC we're like **** that **** get that next round started.
TRS:
Nah we give them time.
Jaxel:
Yeah a minute at most.
TRS:
I remember reading a statistic saying that in championship games people who take time to think about pressing A to get the next round are most likely to lose.
Jaxel:
The chatroom is saying there is coaching in FGC. There is, but there isn't supposed to be. If someone says "I don't want coaches here" then the TO, most TOs I've seen, will say it's an unspoken rule that you're not supposed to have coaching. It's just that noone enforces it. Sorta like how pressing start in the middle of a match, not everybody enforces it. It's a softban. If you enforce it you're a ****. But that's stil the way it's supposed to be. It's frowned upon.
But, yeah, teams in Smash brothers. Seeing 6 people on stage. You don't need coaching, you have a teammate. You're supposed to coach each other.
TRS:
I remember seeing the reason I quit Smash Brothers multiplied by 4 on the screen. The 4 Metaknight match.
Alright. Let me put this point out there. I'll answer any questions you have about APEX. I'm probably going to end up throwing someone under the bus. Whoever you are that I'm probably going to end up throwing under the bus. I'm sorry, that doesn't mean I'm not your friend anymore. If someone ****s up, I'm going to call them out on it. Even if I'm their best friend. Don't take this personally, but you ****ed up. Okay, ask away.
Team Rocket Shirt:
Why the hell weren't there enough people to actually run this second room with marvel, street fighter, and mortal kombat? Where was everybody? Why did we have go hunt down to find people to run our tournament, and they didn't run it anyway? We had to get Local Battles to run our tournament.
Jaxel:
There were actually two different groups of people running APEX. There was the APEX crew and Juice Gaming. The APEX crew ran only Smash. Pretty much they ran the Smash stuff. Smash ran great. It was a 3-day event with 1000 people and it only ran 3 hours behind. That is amazing. That doesn't happen. APEX was ran perfectly, the Smash community never really had an event like this so they think it was run poorly. They don't know. It was run great. They just don't know. But because of how much work they were putting in to running Smash, they hired a different group of people to run the 2Ds. They hired Juice Gaming. And I don't know what went wrong, but Brandon, one of the cofounders of Juice, fell apart. He was not getting **** done. Two weeks beforehand we told Brandon the schedule doesn't make sense. That it was not going to work. The entire time he was like "No, this is fine. This is how we gotta do it. Trust me I know what we're doing." and clearly something went wrong, it did not work how it was supposed to work. And at the same time, the APEX 2d event was nowhere near as bad as the way Seasons Beatings is run. But nobody holds Seasons Beatings accountable as much as they hold APEX accountable. *discussion trashing Seasons Beatings that I didn't want to type up goes here*
But because APEX was a Smash event and not an FGC event people are holding them to a much higher standard. And I don't know- Well, I know why. That's why. They shouldn't be.
APEX sort of reaffirmed my opinions on the Smash community. When I was still running the Naruto events I was asked all the time to run Smash events. There's no god damn way I'd run a Smash event. Now that being said, not only did it reaffirm my opinions of the Smash community, it reaffirmed the bad opinions and the good opinions. For instance, the Smash community, they got their **** together. Someone says, lets say MarlinPie was in the Smash community, someone says "MarlinPie you gotta be here at 9am." If MarlinPie was part of the Smash community he'd be there at 9am. The Smash community is on time. Like I said, 3-day event 1000 people only 3 hours behind. That is god-like. The 2d community can't do that. "MarlinPie you gotta be here at 10am" MarlinPie shows up at 2 and then complains when he gets DQ'd.
Team Rocket Shirt:
Real talk, I was saying this earlier. Show up to your ****ing matches. I come from a PC gaming community. If you're 15 minutes late from match-time, you are DQ'd. You're out. That's the way it was. They let it slide here in the fighting game community.
Jaxel:
Now if you look at the new 8wayrun Soul Calibur 5 rules that I've already put up, they have specific rules for DQing. I want to make sure that TOs don't feel bad for DQing people. I want to make sure they know you have to DQ people.
Now where was I. Reaffirming my opinions of the Smash community. Like I said, they're on point. They get their **** done. But at the same time, the Smash community is very insular. They play Smash, and they only play Smash.
Team Rocket Shirt:
A couple of them play Marvel.
Jaxel:
Yeah, but the ones who play Marvel left Smash to play Marvel. 6 of the top 8 in Marvel were all from the Smash community, and only 2 of them still played Smash.
Team Rocket Shirt:
On a side note, 6 of the top 8 at APEX also ran Wesker.
Jaxel:
So back to what I was saying, the Smash community only plays Smash. And because of it, they don't want to see anything else. On the stream we had 40 hours of Smash, and 5 hours of FGC. They acted like we had just shot their mothers or something.
TRS:
Until Marvel came out. They were hype for Marvel.
Jaxel:
They were hype for Marvel because it was all Smash players.
TRS:
Like when Alukard came on they were going berserk.
Jaxel:
There's another thing with the Smash community. Lets say you only have 20 TVs for an event. You have 15 TVs for Smash, and you start stratifying your event start-ups so you can start reallocating TVs -- actually if you were smart that's how you'd do it. Brandon was not doing that in the original schedule and that's why we were telling Brandon that it was not going to work. There were no stratified starts. Everything was set to start at the exact same time. Which doesn't make any sense, because you need like 60 TVs at start and by the end you're down to 4 TVs and the rest are completely unused. But back to Smash. The problems with that is Smash doesn't like having people take their TVs away. Let's say you have 15 TVs for Smash, and then once Smash gets down to 8 TVs you put those TVs aside for other games so you can get those tournaments started. The Smash community says "**** that ****, we need these TVs for casuals." This is a tournament. There's no god damn casuals. But the Smash community is so used to having casuals - I'm sorry, any Smash people who are watching. You call them "friendlies." What a dumb ****ing name. **** your friendlies, they're casuals. - But like, you take their casual TVs away and they'll throw a fit. That's generally why I said I will never run a Smash event because they will get uptight about that.
TRS:
You know what they were doing too? They just started picking up their **** and putting it in the next room. They were setting up in our room. Like get the **** out of here, this is our room.
Jaxel:
Like I said they can run tournaments really well. They just can't.. the players, they're a bunch of, you know, juvenile... No I wouldn't say they're delinquents.
But like I said, they can run ****. Their event was run great. What got ****ed up was the 2d ****. The 2d community can't run events. [What happened at]APEX, is not unique to APEX.
TRS:
They can't run events. If we had honestly planned to have even 2 people to run the tournament... For APEX, for the amount that we had, all you needed was 1 person with a laptop on this side, and 1 person with a laptop on this side.
Jaxel:
That's what I'm talking about. Juice Gaming, Brandon, was supposed to be running the 2ds. He wasn't. That's why it fell apart.
TRS:
We had to find people to run the tournament for us. That's when Local Battles stepped their game up. Shoutouts to Local Battles. They did their ****. I have so much respect for them right now. They didn't have a 2nd laptop, so we had to do it on 1.
Jaxel:
Another thing the Smash community does that I don't think they should be doing: they have a rule in their tournaments that allows coaching. You look at the FGC, no coaching allowed on stage. If you look at all the streams there was always an extra player per side just sitting there. Sometimes the coach would sit there and do nothing, they just had a good seat. But if you look at grand finals there was one guy the entire time whispering the entire match, and that guy's ******. The coach is just telling him "He didn't do this, pay attention to that. Pay attention to that." Because of the coaching, because it's specifically in the rules, matches take double the time. Now you have to take 3-4 minutes between each round to discuss things with the coach. In the FGC we're like **** that **** get that next round started.
TRS:
Nah we give them time.
Jaxel:
Yeah a minute at most.
TRS:
I remember reading a statistic saying that in championship games people who take time to think about pressing A to get the next round are most likely to lose.
Jaxel:
The chatroom is saying there is coaching in FGC. There is, but there isn't supposed to be. If someone says "I don't want coaches here" then the TO, most TOs I've seen, will say it's an unspoken rule that you're not supposed to have coaching. It's just that noone enforces it. Sorta like how pressing start in the middle of a match, not everybody enforces it. It's a softban. If you enforce it you're a ****. But that's stil the way it's supposed to be. It's frowned upon.
But, yeah, teams in Smash brothers. Seeing 6 people on stage. You don't need coaching, you have a teammate. You're supposed to coach each other.
TRS:
I remember seeing the reason I quit Smash Brothers multiplied by 4 on the screen. The 4 Metaknight match.
)
