Japanese Tier List by SHI-G March '15 (Version 1.0.2)

[FooltheFlames]

There's just no way to justify Link, G&W, and Shulk being D tier in my opinion.
Pikachu and Sonic should be switching places.
I dont understand how Lucina and Marth are rated so dang low with little mac being up that high??

I think the Japanese must favor the more aggro style of play rather then baiting and zoning tactics. With how the placements are on this list, that's just how I feel. It must be customary over there in tournaments to be polite enough to your opponent where you try not and time out the match. I dunno; never been to a Japanese tournament.

Still... I think it's too early to making a tier list that anyone can trust yet. Especially with that recent patch that came with Mewtwo, it should be effecting Diddy's place at the top-
I'd say Sheik and Rosy are tied for the top now, maybe~

 

[Spells]

There's just no way to justify Link, G&W, and Shulk being D tier in my opinion.
Pikachu and Sonic should be switching places.
I dont understand how Lucina and Marth are rated so dang low with little mac being up that high??

I think the Japanese must favor the more aggro style of play rather then baiting and zoning tactics. With how the placements are on this list, that's just how I feel. It must be customary over there in tournaments to be polite enough to your opponent where you try not and time out the match. I dunno; never been to a Japanese tournament.

Still... I think it's too early to making a tier list that anyone can trust yet. Especially with that recent patch that came with Mewtwo, it should be effecting Diddy's place at the top-
I'd say Sheik and Rosy are tied for the top now, maybe~

I honestly think Link at D tier is being extremely generous. The charcater seems to depend so much on the camping game it's pathetic.

 

[ImBroken]

IMO Marth and Lucina should be switched, I may not be that impactful but to me Lucina doesn't feel as stiff as Marth.

 

[Buffoon]

Finally, we reach Marth and Lucina. These are two solid characters, the former of which is virtually unchanged from Brawl outside of losing the ability to chain grab.

Yeah, no. While I agree that Marth is still a viable character, I'm gonna have to vehemently disagree with the above. Marth went through numerous changes (most of which were nerfs) in Sm4sh. Here's what I can name off the top of my head:

Hitboxes are shorter than they appear. As a result, tippers are more difficult to land (this may reflect more on my difficulty in utilizing them in Sm4sh); and most of them, sans the forward-smash and up-smash, have been reduced in KO'ing potential.

Dancing Blade feels stiff and slower in addition to failing to link between variations as well as it did in Brawl,

Double f-airs are harder to pull off.

D-air's spike is reduced to a single frame compared to the entire arc it had in Brawl.

Because of these and numerous changes not listed, Marth has to put in more work when building towards KO's and landing them as well. It's possible, the problem is that Marth(s) have less to work when compared to previous games.

 

[Spells]

https://game8.jp/matome/22362
Please do not post comments hating on the tier list just because you dislike the placement of a character.

S :

A :
（High）
（Mid）
（Low）

B :
（High）
（Mid）
（Low）

C :
（High）
（Mid-High）
（Mid-Low）
（Low）
D :
（High）
（Mid）
（Low）

E :
（High）
（Mid-High）
（Mid-Low）
（Low）

Rules:
WiiU Singles
Items off
Stages: Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Omega Stages
2 stocks 6 minutes
Miis are default size, 1111 set.
(Not written in article, but customs off)

Voting:
Each of the 9 SHI-G members ranked each character as A-E, with A=10, B=8, C=7, D=6, and E=5. After the average of was taken, any character with an average score of >9=A, >8=B, >7=C, >6=D, and >5=E. Every member gets 2 votes for S tier; only a character with all members voting for it to be S-tier gets promoted to S.

S Tier Voting:
Diddy got the 9 votes needed to retain S-tier status. Shiek had 4 votes, while Sonic had 2.

Some Data:
The character with the biggest rise in score was Olimar, with +1.67, jumping from E tier to C tier. He had success at Apex and had his Pikmin AI buffed. Mario was a close second, with +1.62.
The character the worst fall was Lucario, with -1.82. The second largest drop was Jigglypuff with -0.8.
Mario, Captain Falcon, and Ness had the largest standard deviation with 0.994. (I think it's probably because they were debating between A tier which is worth 10 and B tier which is worth 8)

Quote from Tenuhe:
"In voting, I imagined a tier list where B and above is a placement where you can win tournaments straight-forwardly, C needs amazing player skill or gimmicky tactics to attempt to win a tournament, and anything D and below has their limit capped at top 8."

Seems more accurate than most American list. Don't really agree with Marth though.

 

[Foster J.]

I think the Japanese must favor the more aggro style of play rather then baiting and zoning tactics

less lame, more game. It's funny you say this though, as aMSa was spacing his extremely well with Fairs, Nietono on the other hand went ham with
We haven't seen any Japanese Sonic players to date, and the campiest is goes to Abadangos but then he goes ham instead with

The Japanese tier list also reflect the results of top players, the reasoning for being top tier in NA (or in everywhere) is so high is likely also affected by 6WX's performance with the character, just like how Wario is 6 in Japan due to Abadango winning tournaments with him, and the reasoning as to why is below that, is likely due to him outplacing Choco in multiple tournaments.

So tier lists reflect the national meta, but in the end characters are represented by top players, Abadango's Wario has taken sets off Mr.R's Sheik at Cannes Winter Clash.

If I were to make a prediction, then I'd say the Pits would rank higher in the future, as we see Nairo playing those 2 characters ruthlessly, and he might even rise on the Japanese list too, as Earth is representing the character well too.
(And totally not because he retains his killing Fthrow, unlike Sonic who has to work more for it)

 

[FooltheFlames]

I honestly think Link at D tier is being extremely generous. The charcater seems to depend so much on the camping game it's pathetic.

wut chu talking bout?
His Nair & Zair are perfect approaching tools. And with a bomb in hand and/or a returning rang he has even less to worry about.

less lame, more game. It's funny you say this though, as aMSa was spacing his extremely well with Fairs, Nietono on the other hand went ham with
We haven't seen any Japanese Sonic players to date, and the campiest is goes to Abadangos but then he goes ham instead with

The Japanese tier list also reflect the results of top players, the reasoning for being top tier in NA (or in everywhere) is so high is likely also affected by 6WX's performance with the character, just like how Wario is 6 in Japan due to Abadango winning tournaments with him, and the reasoning as to why is below that, is likely due to him outplacing Choco in multiple tournaments.

So tier lists reflect the national meta, but in the end characters are represented by top players, Abadango's Wario has taken sets off Mr.R's Sheik at Cannes Winter Clash.

If I were to make a prediction, then I'd say the Pits would rank higher in the future, as we see Nairo playing those 2 characters ruthlessly, and he might even rise on the Japanese list too, as Earth is representing the character well too.
(And totally not because he retains his killing Fthrow, unlike Sonic who has to work more for it)

This is very informative; Thankies~<3

I honestly do not know that much about the Japanese scene of Smash 4... I only said that based on the rankings of the characters; the Japanese meta must be very different becuz there are still things that baffle me about this list.
But as always, I'm not going to let any "official" tier list effect who I choose to play with

 

[Deleted member]

DIDDY KANG.

 

[Kale42]

So does Mario.

That aside, I find it insane how Japan just keeps spitting out tier lists left and right. They're not even that good from the looks of it. Lucina the second worst character in the game? Diddy deserving his own tier? He's not Brawl MK, he doesn't deserve his own bloody tier.
I am, however, pleased to see that they place Meta Knight higher, around where he belongs, and the high tiers looks mostly accurate in my opinion (the lack of Luigi in top 10 is a bit odd though.)

That's a little rude... And Diddy is fairly strong due his extremely low lag times. The only lag time I can remember is on his upB which is normally only used for recovery. Saying the japanese players "aren't that good" is really a small amount of racist imo... Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and clearly they pick faster characters. Which could explain Luigi being lower because he has slightly less speed than Mario. And Dr. Mario was slower than Mario. This tier would make sense on this fact, because the S and A ranked are all speed based fighters. B has the slower but damaging fighters in it as well. I feel this tier makes sense, but that it doesn't fit everyone. It's like saying every person on the planet has to cut their hair to look like a mullet. Some would be okay with it, but others would be aggravated. So talking about tier lists and criticizing it isn't helpful, because that's how it is. I personally am a go with the flow person, and so I play what I am good at. Currently that's Rosalina. But I'm not crying that she's only High A class, not even top 3. And it even said at the top, don't post below about how your favorite characters aren't placed in the "right" spots... People should probably read more...

 

[Foster J.]

snip-

Racist? Really? It's a regional difference in this case and has nothing to do with race. GTFO.
As for the skill level, Chokaigi con is a... interesting example http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/653203810

The meta is always different elsewhere, but American superiority is present in smash PM, Brawl and Smash 4 :^) and I'm saying that as an EU player, where Melee is still the biggest thing since sliced bread in terms of scene comparison between the games in the series

If you want other examples, then you can ask yourselves why TSM loves Scandinavian players over the 'Muricans~

 

[Zethoro]

That's a little rude... And Diddy is fairly strong due his extremely low lag times. The only lag time I can remember is on his upB which is normally only used for recovery. Saying the japanese players "aren't that good" is really a small amount of racist imo... Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and clearly they pick faster characters. Which could explain Luigi being lower because he has slightly less speed than Mario. And Dr. Mario was slower than Mario. This tier would make sense on this fact, because the S and A ranked are all speed based fighters. B has the slower but damaging fighters in it as well. I feel this tier makes sense, but that it doesn't fit everyone. It's like saying every person on the planet has to cut their hair to look like a mullet. Some would be okay with it, but others would be aggravated. So talking about tier lists and criticizing it isn't helpful, because that's how it is. I personally am a go with the flow person, and so I play what I am good at. Currently that's Rosalina. But I'm not crying that she's only High A class, not even top 3. And it even said at the top, don't post below about how your favorite characters aren't placed in the "right" spots... People should probably read more...

I never said Diddy wasn't great, I just said he doesn't deserve his own tier, especially not now after his recent nerfs.
It's not a matter of my favorite characters either; my favorite characters are Kirby and Robin, and I didn't even mention them. It's a matter of "this character is better or worse than this in my opinion".
Quality over Quantity. I like that Japan's being very proactive with this, but they need to calm down and consider every character's strengths and weaknesses more.
Also, where did I say Japanese players "aren't that good"? I said the tier list isn't that good, not the people.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

When I saw the last Japanese tier list, Wario was at B. I figured that was alright. I was thinking that the awkward KO moves would force Wario down a tier, but I guess I was wrong. I guess I have Abadango to thank for this.

Now that versions 1.06 and 1.07 have been released, this tier list has been outdated a little. Thankfully Wario's been left pretty much untouched by the update while most of top tier has been nerfed. This pretty much means that Abadango's Wario has gotten stronger due to everyone around him getting weaker. I sure hope this is enough for him to stay in A.

As for King Dedede, I can understand his placement. King Dedede has good range, combos, numerous KO options and excellent recovery, but he's just TOO DARN SLOW. He's very limited when it comes to faster characters that can dance circles around you. Against slower, characters that have less range whether they're heavy or light, King Dedede has an advantage, but against the likes of Pikachu and Sonic... don't make me laugh. I'll still have him as my 2nd main, but I don't see him making higher than C EVER unless they took away his endlag on ALL his moves.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I never said Diddy wasn't great, I just said he doesn't deserve his own tier, especially not now after his recent nerfs.
It's not a matter of my favorite characters either; my favorite characters are Kirby and Robin, and I didn't even mention them. It's a matter of "this character is better or worse than this in my opinion".
Quality over Quantity. I like that Japan's being very proactive with this, but they need to calm down and consider every character's strengths and weaknesses more.
Also, where did I say Japanese players "aren't that good"? I said the tier list isn't that good, not the people.

Imo, he did deserve his own tier pre-patch. He may have been no MK, but he was pish easy to use with really great reward. Easier to use with more reward than any of the characters in the A tier.

Diddy now has to work for that KO. He still has many ways to corner you, and I think he's still a top 10. Definetely not 1 anymore though, that spot belongs to Sheik now.

The gaps between tiers are a lot smaller this time.

 

[LancerStaff]

Imo, he did deserve his own tier pre-patch. He may have been no MK, but he was pish easy to use with really great reward. Easier to use with more reward than any of the characters in the A tier.

Diddy now has to work for that KO. He still has many ways to corner you, and I think he's still a top 10. Definetely not 1 anymore though, that spot belongs to Sheik now.

The gaps between tiers are a lot smaller this time.

Shiek had her KO power nerfed again, yaknow. Haven't seen too many people say she's on top after the patch.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Shiek had her KO power nerfed again, yaknow. Haven't seen too many people say she's on top after the patch.

I'm aware of that.

Doesn't change my opinion that she's still top. Her neutral game is still insanely good. Needles are still amazing projectiles. Bouncing Fish is still amazing.

Her trouble KOing becomes less of an issue at higher and higher levels of play, from what I've noticed. I can think of no matchup where Sheik struggles in either, no bad matchups for her honestly. She's the character I'd say is #1 atm.

 

[Foster J.]

Shiek had her KO power nerfed again, yaknow. Haven't seen too many people say she's on top after the patch.

She still can put up the pressure like mad, her Bair comboes into **** now... She's a gimp lord, she'll struggle against people who can recover, but she is still a monster, and silly. I mean vanish with invulnerability frames at the start, then a windbox in the end? The lag isn't long enough to punish if you get pushed from it.

I predict a nerf to Vanish in the near future.

 

[DavemanCozy]

She still can put up the pressure like mad, her Bair comboes into **** now... She's a gimp lord, she'll struggle against people who can recover, but she is still a monster, and silly. I mean vanish with invulnerability frames at the start, then a windbox in the end? The lag isn't long enough to punish if you get pushed from it.

I predict a nerf to Vanish in the near future.

That would be gross overkill, imo. That move takes a hard read to land. They should leave Sheik alone, imo, she's the best imo but the player needs to put in work to show she's the best.

 

[Foster J.]

That would be gross overkill, imo. That move takes a hard read to land. They should leave Sheik alone, imo, she's the best imo but the player needs to put in work to show she's the best.

I meant as in recovering, I hold no beef with it being used as a kill move, but honestly, you know where he'll land then a windbox happens that A. pushes you away from the ledge. B. Pushes you away as you were shielding to do a OoS Usmash.
It's too free of a recovery really when you take the invulnerability frames at the start into account :|

I still say Ftilt is ****ing stupid though D:

 

[DuckIsPro]

Ummm.... Why is Robin At E?

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Ummm.... Why is Robin At E?

Probably due to being super slow, the defensive meta of Sm4sh also giving a hard time to projectile-based characters in general and having alot of endlag on her attacks. Also, Japan doesn't have Nairo to represent.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

What does my statement about a characters abilities have to do with my feelings towards that character?

What you said makes no sense and these two ideas have no correlation.

What BS? The BS where I make a statement based on what we have seen in the metagame thus far and what I know about Marth and since you as a Marth main find that unacceptable you make a claim that I can't play the character right? Which is not even in question. It's not relevant to the discussion. My skill level, or yours or anyone elses is not relevant to this discussion. We are talking about his tools. Nothing more.

Also..what? YOU claimed I was the most knowledgeable Marth before I did.

At first I was having fun, but now I am beginning to question your intelligence.

Not many people are willing to admit that their favorite character sucks even after long practice of playing as that character. You have my respect for that.

 

[Caryslan]

Probably due to being super slow, the defensive meta of Sm4sh also giving a hard time to projectile-based characters in general and having alot of endlag on her attacks. Also, Japan doesn't have Nairo to represent.

I would also add that most of the top characters(Diddy, Shiek, Sonic, Wario in the air) are all characters that have the speed and mobility to get around Robin's attacks. Once someone gets past Arcfire, Robin really does not have much to keep people out of his face. It does not help that if his tomes run out of uses at the worst time, he becomes even more vulnerable.

To be honest, I'm a little shocked Robin is higher then Ike. I can understand Marth and Lucina since they got got nailed by the nerf hammedr bad in this game, but it seems like Ike have better options to deal with opponents that are in his face.

Maybe its just me.

 

[DavemanCozy]

the campiest is goes to Abadangos but then he goes ham instead with

I wonder what would've happened in Apex had Abadango switched to Wario against Dabuz. Going over it in my head, it seems like a much better MU than Pac Man vs Rosa.

 

[Foster J.]

I wonder what would've happened in Apex had Abadango switched to Wario against Dabuz. Going over it in my head, it seems like a much better MU than Pac Man vs Rosa.

Don't tease me Cozy, that's a wet dream right there.... I bet it would have been so much better if he just bike rushed the luma

 

[Meek Moths]

i started using robin today. im a zelda main and robin is very slow for me. it's difficult to punish as robin. tier wise, he really is the worst character in the game. but it's fun to play him and that's what counts

 

[Foster J.]

i started using robin today. im a zelda main and robin is very slow for me. it's difficult to punish as robin. tier wise, he really is the worst character in the game. but it's fun to play him and that's what counts

..........dude seriously, worst? Someone needs to watch Nairo.

 

[Meek Moths]

..........dude seriously, worst? Someone needs to watch Nairo.

there is a reason why nairo uses zss instead of robin in serious matches...........

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Don't tease me Cozy, that's a wet dream right there.... I bet it would have been so much better if he just bike rushed the luma

I don't know just how good this Stingers guy is, but I've seen Reflex's PM and Brawl Wario. It may not be much to go off of, but it's better than nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eOfsoz9sZs

 

[Foster J.]

there is a reason why nairo uses zss instead of robin in serious matches...........

Robin is a pocket character of his now, he'll still use it in MU's he prefers it. Simple, calling it the worst character is just.... in bad taste.

 

[Marigi174]

IMO Zard is probably the worst charcter tbh. Zard's aerial movement is slow, he has so much lag on so many of his attacks, his only way of recovering from the side deals damage to him (even more if he hits the side of the stage with it) and it is screwed over by low-trajectory smashes due to his abysmal recovery.

 

[Meek Moths]

Robin is a pocket character of his now, he'll still use it in MU's he prefers it. Simple, calling it the worst character is just.... in bad taste.

someone has to be at the very bottom. but this is smash 4 so being the worst by tier is not as bad as being brawl ganon or melee kirby.

 

[ElectricBlade]

someone has to be at the very bottom. but this is smash 4 so being the worst by tier is not as bad as being brawl ganon or melee kirby.

That's true, but Robin has alot of versatility to him, such as a pretty good air game,a good jab,and quite a few combos off of Arcfire (which really is not that hard to hit with) there are some characters that are almost surely worse then him, such as Charizard without custom, or customless Swordfighter

 

[Marigi174]

That's true, but Robin has alot of versatility to him, such as a pretty good air game,a good jab,and quite a few combos off of Arcfire (which really is not that hard to hit with) there are some characters that are almost surely worse then him, such as Charizard without custom, or customless Swordfighter

Or just Sword Fighter in general. It is still ass with customs on tbh.

 

[ElectricBlade]

Or just Sword Fighter in general. It is still *** with customs on tbh.

Yeah, it has like no redeeming qualities really besides being able to play as Lonk or something

(or to say hey guys I play as mii swordfighter lmfao)

 

[Goesasu]

I would also add that most of the top characters(Diddy, Shiek, Sonic, Wario in the air) are all characters that have the speed and mobility to get around Robin's attacks. Once someone gets past Arcfire, Robin really does not have much to keep people out of his face. It does not help that if his tomes run out of uses at the worst time, he becomes even more vulnerable.

To be honest, I'm a little shocked Robin is higher then Ike. I can understand Marth and Lucina since they got got nailed by the nerf hammedr bad in this game, but it seems like Ike have better options to deal with opponents that are in his face.

Maybe its just me.

Custom arc fire (Firw wall) Says hi.

Robin needs fire wall and fast thunder to keep away rushdown characters, this combination is very very efective.

 

[Meek Moths]

That's true, but Robin has alot of versatility to him, such as a pretty good air game,a good jab,and quite a few combos off of Arcfire (which really is not that hard to hit with) there are some characters that are almost surely worse then him, such as Charizard without custom, or customless Swordfighter

you pretty much said everything good robin has. i could do that with evry character and it would make no difference.

problem is that top tiers are really fast characters and robin can do very little against them. rest of cast can do well against him, he is easy to combo (tall frame, poor air movement marth and lucina-chan alsi be easy combo)

 

[ElectricBlade]

you pretty much said everything good robin has. i could do that with evry character and it would make no difference.

problem is that top tiers are really fast characters and robin can do very little against them. rest of cast can do well against him, he is easy to combo (tall frame, poor air movement marth and lucina-chan alsi be easy combo)

So many other characters have this problem also, lets use Shiek for example, he atleast has fire wall and speed thunder to stand atleast a chance against her (like Goesasu said) Now let's look at Ganon or Charizard in this matchup, what options do they have? They pretty much rely on reads to try and get through this fight

I'm not really gonna argue this though, since I can't really think of a worst character exactly, and you would probably know better anyway.
Thanks for your time tho!

Or just Sword Fighter in general. It is still *** with customs on tbh.

Yeahh I agree, still as pretty much as defenseless as ever

 

[Dark Phazon]

I find it strangely satisfying that I use at least one character out of every tier.

Also, is Link really worse than DDD? I get that DDD has more power but his moves are very very slow and easy to evade/dodge.

DDD is a monster

Power/Huge Range/ So much priority
2nd heaviest.
And quite a few moves with very little end lag
Great recovery.

 

[Ze Diglett]

DDD is a monster

Power/Huge Range/ So much priority
2nd heaviest.
And quite a few moves with very little end lag
Great recovery.

Not to mention spectacular air, edgeguarding, and camping game above all else. DDD is super underrated in Sm4sh for all that he's got going for him.

 

[Meek Moths]

So many other characters have this problem also, lets use Shiek for example, he atleast has fire wall and speed thunder to stand atleast a chance against her (like Goesasu said) Now let's look at Ganon or Charizard in this matchup, what options do they have? They pretty much rely on r

arcfire? that move is just so slow sheik will punish you if you dont land it and she can get you before you can use it