Janon social thread : Lair of the Floating Back Slapping Missile Reflecting King of Evil

[Yanoss1313]

I havn't seen this much energy on the Ganondorf boards in a looong time.
last time was maybe around when the footstool>stomp was being shared around?
or maybe just for stomp u-tilt?

Either way, it's nice to have some excitement around here again =D

 

[Alex Night]

I havn't seen this much energy on the Ganondorf boards in a looong time.
last time was maybe around when the footstool>stomp was being shared around?
or maybe just for stomp u-tilt?

Either way, it's nice to have some excitement around here again =D

Somehow I always love using Aerial Flame Choke to Uptilt when they don't tech it right. I can't even figure out why that combo is a thing. lol

 

[Cpt.]

Sorry for my late entry into this thread. Always used Cpt. Falcondorf in PM and in SSBB. Just always saw him as a secondary until now.

Long live Goodandorf! or perhaps Godandorf?

 

[Anonistry]

His new hover and my avatar sugest Goukindorf.

 

[Yanoss1313]

His new hover and my avatar sugest Goukindorf.

I was saying that YEEEARS ago

 

[Anonistry]

I don't usually do this, but...

Although does this mean Demise is lower tier than Ganondorf?

 

[Bazkip]

Changelist for the G-Dorf

Spoiler

Ganondorf Changelist


Tilts
-Forward Tilt
--Animations polished
--Outer hit trajectory raised from 32 to 361 (~45) degrees
--Inside hit trajectory still 32 degrees
--Interrupts frame 30 from 28
-Up Tilt
--Revised animation
--Rising hit lasts frames 5-11 from 3-12

Smashes
-Forward Smash
--Warlock Punch aesthetic adapted from nB to F-smash
--Mostly aesthetic change, timing / hit stats / hit area unchanged
-Up Smash
--U-smash interrupts 5 frames later
--Animation decloned slightly, otherwise same stats

Aerials
-Neutral Aerial
--Startup reduced from 7 frames to 5 frames
--Interrupts frame 38 from 45
-Back Aerial
--New animation (stats unchanged)

Grabs
-Standing grab
--Moved in 1 unit to match Melee range
-Dash grab
--Travels further and grabs slightly lower on inner grab boxes
-Jump Squat reduced from 6 frames to 5 frames

Throws
-Forward Throw
--Throw damage 4 to 8 (9 to 13 total). Stronger and has a darkness effect.
-Back Throw
--Angle 45 to 58, BKB 35 to 30, and Endlag 27->17
-Down Throw
--KBG raised from 40 to 45

Specials
-Neutral Special (Dead Man’s Drift & Volley)
--Replaced Warlock Punch with Dead Man’s Drift & Volley
--Press B on the ground to "volley" projectiles back to the sender at 2x speed
--Press B once in the air to start floating, press B a second time to air Volley
--After a 14fr startup period you can interrupt float with Aerial Attacks or Double Jump
-Forward Special (Flame Choke)
--Fixed minor instances of Flame Choke being techable before final hit
--Finishing a match with Flame Choke results in a victory for Ganondorf
--Due to global ledge grab adjustments you must now hold back to reverse grab the ledge after a grounded Flame Choke
-Up Special (Dark Dive)
--Fixed electric graphics to properly align with opponent during Up-B throw
-Down Special (Wizard’s Foot)
--Ground to Air ending able to go into Special Landing (mostly aesthetic)
--Wall-impact rebound lag reduced from 60 to 40 frames

Others
-Rolls
--Updated with new magical aesthetic (stats unchanged)
-Spot dodge
--Updated with new magical aesthetic
--Spot dodge is faster, invuln 2-15 and interrupts 22
-Taunts
--Down Taunt can now be held to perform a sword attack. 37/35/33/31 DMG, 100 KBG, 40 BKB

Some of these are great, others leave me a tad puzzled. Like, the grab change doesn't sound like it's particularly significant, and wtf are you telling me fsmash still has the same garbage trajectory?

Smaller jumpsquat is great along with always winning Ganoncide finishes (let's hope they actually got that right this time lol)

 

[Anonistry]

Somewhat surprising amount of changes basically amount to fine-tuning appearance. Looks like they were paying attention to those who wanted his appearance decloned further from the Captain.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Changelist for the G-Dorf

Spoiler

Ganondorf Changelist


Tilts
-Forward Tilt
--Animations polished
--Outer hit trajectory raised from 32 to 169 (~45) degrees
--Inside hit trajectory still 32 degrees
--Interrupts frame 30 from 28
-Up Tilt
--Revised animation
--Rising hit lasts frames 5-11 from 3-12

Smashes
-Forward Smash
--Warlock Punch aesthetic adapted from nB to F-smash
--Mostly aesthetic change, timing / hit stats / hit area unchanged
-Up Smash
--U-smash interrupts 5 frames later
--Animation decloned slightly, otherwise same stats

Aerials
-Neutral Aerial
--Startup reduced from 7 frames to 5 frames
--Interrupts frame 38 from 45
-Back Aerial
--New animation (stats unchanged)

Grabs
-Standing grab
--Moved in 1 unit to match Melee range
-Dash grab
--Travels further and grabs slightly lower on inner grab boxes
-Jump Squat reduced from 6 frames to 5 frames

Throws
-Down Throw
--KBG raised from 40 to 45

Specials
-Neutral Special (Dead Man’s Drift & Volley)
--Replaced Warlock Punch with Dead Man’s Drift & Volley
--Press B on the ground to "volley" projectiles back to the sender at 2x speed
--Press B once in the air to start floating, press B a second time to air Volley
--After a 14fr startup period you can interrupt float with Aerial Attacks or Double Jump
-Forward Special (Flame Choke)
--Fixed minor instances of Flame Choke being techable before final hit
--Finishing a match with Flame Choke results in a victory for Ganondorf
--Due to global ledge grab adjustments you must now hold back to reverse grab the ledge after a grounded Flame Choke
-Up Special (Dark Dive)
--Fixed electric graphics to properly align with opponent during Up-B throw
-Down Special (Wizard’s Foot)
--Ground to Air ending able to go into Special Landing (mostly aesthetic)
--Wall-impact rebound lag reduced from 60 to 40 frames

Others
-Rolls
--Updated with new magical aesthetic (stats unchanged)
-Spot dodge
--Updated with new magical aesthetic
--Spot dodge is faster, invuln 2-15 and interrupts 22
-Taunts
--Down Taunt can now be held to perform a sword attack. 37/35/33/31 DMG, 100 KBG, 40 BKB

Some of these are great, others leave me a tad puzzled. Like, the grab change doesn't sound like it's particularly significant, and wtf are you telling me fsmash still has the same garbage trajectory?

Smaller jumpsquat is great along with always winning Ganoncide finishes (let's hope they actually got that right this time lol)

Hmm, I'm unsure of the implications of the later interrupts on allot of these moves, especially Nair (No more Vortex?)

Can someone clarify what is meant exactly?
It seems like your ability to act out of said moves will be a bit laggier, but i'm not 100% sure.

Edit: I DO like the Slightly faster jump squat though, I've been begging for that for what feels like 2 years.

 

[Anonistry]

Yeah, I am actually curious as to what interrupt frames mean? One term I don't think I have encountered before.

 

[Purple Stuff]

I'm guessing interrupt frames are the earliest frames you can input an action and end animation? Not really sure.

In other news: I'm not a big fan of the new upsmash animation. Makes DACUS seem less stylish to me.

 

[Bazkip]

Interrupts are IASA (Interruptable As Soon As: when you can act during an animation) and I guess autocancels when it comes to aerial moves.

 

[Anonistry]

Ah, so just another way of saying IASA. Then ouch. I mean, I can ALWAYS understand the logic of being cautious about how good a character is if they have vortex game, but still. I imagine they feel that if his anti-zoning is stronger and his approach less predictable, he might not need as good of reward of landing a hit.

 

[Yoki]

--Startup reduced from 7 frames to 5 frames
--Interrupts frame 38 from 45 (i.e, changed from frame 45 to frame 38)

It's a buff. Shorter startup, earlier IASA. Hail Ganon.

 

[Bazkip]

Earlier startup on nair is real nice. Makes for a much better OOS option combined with a faster jumpsquat.

 

[TTTTTsd]

The D-Throw change may be to make Ganon's chaingrab slightly (keyword, slightly) more difficult, perhaps? It's all I can think of with the higher knockback growth, perhaps it's to prevent the CG at higher percents.

Also looked into D-Taunt sword hitboxes and, yes, you can probably edgeguard with it if you want to disrespect with the disjoint. It is also incredibly powerful and far-reaching, too! Excellent disrespect.

Dead Man's volley also has what I wanted....a pimpslap hitbox. It can hit people up close. I guess that is for even more disrespect.

Everything else is like, improvement city though. Project M 3.Ganondorf.

 

[Bazkip]

Yeah dthrow nerf was definitely warranted it was a stupid good move just was attached to a bad character previously so didn't matter.

Also buffs to f/bthrow didn't even notice that on my first read through. Hello throw mixups.
Edit: Okay wait I didn't notice it on the first read through cause they weren't there, guess that got added later. Updated my post.

 

[Anonistry]

--Startup reduced from 7 frames to 5 frames
--Interrupts frame 38 from 45 (i.e, changed from frame 45 to frame 38)

It's a buff. Shorter startup, earlier IASA. Hail Ganon.

Well I totally read that wrong. Hellz yeah.

The D-Throw change may be to make Ganon's chaingrab slightly (keyword, slightly) more difficult, perhaps? It's all I can think of with the higher knockback growth, perhaps it's to prevent the CG at higher percents.

Also looked into D-Taunt sword hitboxes and, yes, you can probably edgeguard with it if you want to disrespect with the disjoint. It is also incredibly powerful and far-reaching, too! Excellent disrespect.

Dead Man's volley also has what I wanted....a pimpslap hitbox. It can hit people up close. I guess that is for even more disrespect.

Everything else is like, improvement city though. Project M 3.Ganondorf.

The degree to which all of this excites me is only outweighed by my sudden fear that nerfs will be forthcoming...

 

[Yoki]

I can't play right now, can anyone test if he can now SH Nair waveland? Probably not, that might be too good.
Either way, it looks like Ganon got solid buffs while nearly every character got nerfed. He probably needed it, but that's really sweet.

 

[Anonistry]

And to top that off less recovery effectiveness mostly across the board (although if anything new hover is that much more of an edge to recover, however slight.)

So, provided these tools don't turn out to be ineffective in practice, is there any glaring flaw in the Dorf at this point? Weaknesses or areas to overcome are fine, just anything like before that leaves him incomplete or 2 dimensional?

 

[Yanoss1313]

Ah, so just another way of saying IASA. Then ouch. I mean, I can ALWAYS understand the logic of being cautious about how good a character is if they have vortex game, but still. I imagine they feel that if his anti-zoning is stronger and his approach less predictable, he might not need as good of reward of landing a hit.

Ganon's "arti vortex" is more of a safety/baiting/anti pressure tool. not really a vortex in the street fighter 4 sense.

--Startup reduced from 7 frames to 5 frames
--Interrupts frame 38 from 45 (i.e, changed from frame 45 to frame 38)

It's a buff. Shorter startup, earlier IASA. Hail Ganon.

and man, i totally read it back to front >.<

 

[Anonistry]

Its hilarious reading the Social Thread and all the cries of nerfing. I couldn't help but be like "Hey all. Dorf-man here. Sup?"

 

[Yanoss1313]

Its hilarious reading the Social Thread and all the cries of nerfing. I couldn't help but be like "Hey all. Dorf-man here. Sup?"

I know right =D

 

[Yoki]

Its hilarious reading the Social Thread and all the cries of nerfing. I couldn't help but be like "Hey all. Dorf-man here. Sup?"

 

[Anonistry]

Okay, that was just too good, Yoki.

I need to relish this moment. Never before, and never again, will I actually be in the "lucky" category from a balance update.

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah dthrow nerf was definitely warranted it was a stupid good move just was attached to a bad character previously so didn't matter.

Also buffs to f/bthrow didn't even notice that on my first read through. Hello throw mixups.
Edit: Okay wait I didn't notice it on the first read through cause they weren't there, guess that got added later. Updated my post.

yea oops

 

[Datnox]

My game crashes every time I try to float > double jump > forward b. Ganon too strong.

 

[bandi]

Tested Ganon - feels really good. There are still some major drawbacks :
His nB doesn't properly reflect Mario's Fireballs.
His Aerial DownB has still has no hitbox at the tip of his food - no priority whatsoever.

Other than that, I really like his Float and I'm gonna kick some major ass today against a veteran Melee player, inb4 flame war. What i really like the most is his float - he has a neutral game guys! You can go super deep with them boots, and use downB offstage+float as stalling tool and Fair your opponent to the face.

 

[Yoki]

Can someone check if we can now waveland out of a SH Nair? I won't be able to play for a while.

 

[bandi]

Can someone check if we can now waveland out of a SH Nair? I won't be able to play for a while.

Nope - Works as 3.0 Dorfs nair, only faster.

Edit: You can WL out of FH Nair - Cool!

 

[Yoki]

Yeah, that would have been too good. Thanks!

 

[GeZ]

So after reading the full changelog, we're like, one of five characters that didn't get nerfs, and one of like, two maybe, that were buffed overall.

WE COOKIN BAYBEE

 

[Cpt.]

Sword taunt confirmed for better than Warlock Punch

 

[Coastward]

hi, gonna make an appearance again now that 3.5dorf is out.

if you guys didnt know, you can still RAR hover. so what i did was set one of my trigger buttons to special, that way its easier to RAR hover > bair/dair.

i've been ****ing around with **** like RAR hover > wizards foot and RAR hover > flame choke and the POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS.

you'll see me regularly now.

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

hi, gonna make an appearance again now that 3.5dorf is out.

if you guys didnt know, you can still RAR hover. so what i did was set one of my trigger buttons to special, that way its easier to RAR hover > bair/dair.

i've been ****ing around with **** like RAR hover > wizards foot and RAR hover > flame choke and the POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS.

you'll see me regularly now.

And b-reverse RAR hover is there too, I learned it while trying to find a way to better control my movement options

 

[Xinc]

That moment when you can't play PM until next week. Goddamn

 

[RelaxAlax]

Gonna try more later.

Float is gr8

DMV can be janky. Maybe it takes getting use to though.

Grab is not better but other throws are.

WL is better

New Dacus feels lame.

 

[Coastward]

so heres the down taunt hitbox

he gets a fair amount of super armor and has a hitbox on his head lmao.

 

[teluoborg]

Fair amount ? More like unfair amount lmao. I tested it and a Bob-omb explosion won't make you flinch.

 

[Shell]

Uhh... just a heads up that was supposed to be Medium Armor but it looks like my commit didn't work or something... enjoy the Super Armor for now!

The shoulder hitbox is intentional. Most sword users have them to prevent whiffing against people right next to you.