Janon social thread : Lair of the Floating Back Slapping Missile Reflecting King of Evil

[Electric Tuba]

We need a Ganon only side event at the next big tourney.
Forte 2 this December?

 

[GeZ]

Not massively game-changing but it helps a lot if you put the mindgames in. It's basically a weave-punish sort of deal but it gives Ganon an option to snap back relatively quickly compared to manually turning. I'd recommend Nair out of float if you want a fast punish but if you're gutsy and you know it's gonna hit you can just meaty Fair them. If they try and jump this mixup you can Upair to swat them if they try and get "smart." It's not the best in the world but it has some really cool utility =D

Basically yeah you're right, it's certainly gonna make amazing reads super possible.

You gotta be careful though man. A smart opponent will slaughter you for hovering to try and bait out moves too much in the neutral. When the momentum is on your side it's more safe and reasonable, but you'll definitely lose stocks for just floating to bait moves all the time.

 

[HiroProtagonist]

We need a Ganon only side event at the next big tourney.
Forte 2 this December?

I agree completely. A Ganon round robin would be hype. THINK OF THE STOMPS

 

[TTTTTsd]

You gotta be careful though man. A smart opponent will slaughter you for hovering to try and bait out moves too much in the neutral. When the momentum is on your side it's more safe and reasonable, but you'll definitely lose stocks for just floating to bait moves all the time.

Oh definitely, but I mean, it's just one of many options presented by float that I'm throwing out there. There's so much this can do as far as I'm concerned, it's crazy. Jump forward into retreating Bair because why not, etc.

Really as long as we mix up our floats and don't telegraph it, we've got a really good mindgame in the form of it.

 

[whoknowswhat]

I don't know why, but no matter what I do, I cannot do DACUS for the life of me. It's only Ganon's DACUS I have trouble with, I have no problem with anyone else, but my main? No way. Even if I go frame by frame I still can't do it, and I don't understand why.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Mm, been practising against CPUs ( friends cant play lol and homework is fierce) and man ... this is the Ganon I wanted.

In neutral you can play the same. I don't recommend hovering alot there and playing smart. But once you're in, use that baby all you want. It's a great pressure too. (On the Smashville platform and hovered u-air and wavelanded all around this Falco it was great). Managed to finally mix my 3.02 Ganon Gameplay with this one and it's finally seeming seemless. Ofcouse gotta go play more people but it's SO FUN.

Oh, and I guess I've been doing RARS my whole play career and not noticing that's the term.

If what I'm doing is what I think I'm doing my God it's great. Bairs for you bairs for me bairs for everyone!

 

[Anonistry]

I still await the day I see a joke-Ganon who is all about constant divekicks. Little to not endlag, different trajectories, all the pressure.

Until then, this is a good looking Ganon. He will fit pretty decently into the current cast.

 

[CORY]

You gotta be careful though man. A smart opponent will slaughter you for hovering to try and bait out moves too much in the neutral. When the momentum is on your side it's more safe and reasonable, but you'll definitely lose stocks for just floating to bait moves all the time.

yeah, playing a lot and just floating to float, i'm feeling it's less powerful in neutral, outside of baiting with weaves, but super good once you gain momentum and can start to put people on the defensive. even just building a pattern of "spaced fair-l cancel. spaced fair-l cancel. hover-spaced fair" can get people to shield drop in an attempt to oos your fair early and eat the real incoming attack.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Mm, been practising against CPUs ( friends cant play lol and homework is fierce) and man ... this is the Ganon I wanted.

In neutral you can play the same. I don't recommend hovering alot there and playing smart. But once you're in, use that baby all you want. It's a great pressure too. (On the Smashville platform and hovered u-air and wavelanded all around this Falco it was great). Managed to finally mix my 3.02 Ganon Gameplay with this one and it's finally seeming seemless. Ofcouse gotta go play more people but it's SO FUN.

Oh, and I guess I've been doing RARS my whole play career and not noticing that's the term.

If what I'm doing is what I think I'm doing my God it's great. Bairs for you bairs for me bairs for everyone!

I love this Ganon feels great, except I still think he deserves a better grab range (even with the great down throw) but this Ganon is very FUN. I hope they make the reflector easier to use, its too strict for actual use against quick projectiles and I still hope for more updated/unique animations like Bair, Fair etc. for other moves that share animation or are too close to C.Falcons animations.

Can't wait to see how the pros use this new Ganon.

 

[CORY]

i don't mind the grab length so much, anymore. i've gotten used to it.

but ffs, i really want it to be slightly lower : / though, maybe mario can't go right underneath your grab with dash attack anymore? i'll have to legitimately test this stuff out later...

 

[Purple Stuff]

Man, is it bad that I haven't even really been messing with the float? I dabbled with it at the start and had an Epiphany about some options ganon always had all along. It led to the discovery of something I like to call the James Brown Combo. Even before 3.5, ganon is just too deep.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Purp you can't just tell us about a James Brown combo and not explain.

And I agree, he's deeper then most give him credit for.

 

[Purple Stuff]

I want to try using it in actual matches before explaining it. Trying to make sure its actually viable with DI and techs being thrown around.

 

[Coastward]

not sure if you could do this in 3.02 but you can full hop fair > nair now.

 

[Yanoss1313]

i don't mind the grab length so much, anymore. i've gotten used to it.

but ffs, i really want it to be slightly lower : / though, maybe mario can't go right underneath your grab with dash attack anymore? i'll have to legitimately test this stuff out later...

while it's not as good as a proper grab, it's pretty easy to jump cancel into upB out of shield on Mario's dash attack to grab him. (you can also reverse it if he goes deep enough to go through you.)

not sure if you could do this in 3.02 but you can full hop fair > nair now.

you could, but with the faster jump squat, it's easier now.

Edit: oops, i read that wrong. but yeah, i'm pretty sure you could do that before, i used to go for second jump, Nair auto cancel into F-tilt after it.

 

[teluoborg]

I want to try using it in actual matches before explaining it. Trying to make sure its actually viable with DI and techs being thrown around.

Yo who cares about **** like "matches" and "opponents" when you have the PROJECT MANON V3.5 DEBUG MODE™ ?

Edit : ALSO I FORGOT BUT I'M ACTUALLY QUITE MAD AT MY FAVORITE GANON COLOR BEING GONE REALLY DID NO ONE THINK I WOULDN'T NOTICE JUST BECAUSE OF ALL THAT MELEE GANON FUSS COME ON PMBR WHATS THE POINT OF GIVING THIS MANY BUFFS IF I CANT ENJOY PICKING HIM ANYMORE I MEAN WHAT THE HELL

 

[Anonistry]

ITT: teluoborg does not approve. Pack it up guys, time to wait for 3.6.

In all seriousness though, you could probably just reimport vanilla ganon colors, correct?

 

[CORY]

i really dislike that new ganon's face so i pretty much immediately redid the costumes with an older texture that i used.

 

[Coastward]

some of the pictures ive taken of ganons face are ****ing hilarious.

its just static no matter what state hes in or what hes doing lol.

 

[Yanoss1313]

not sure if you could do this in 3.02 but you can full hop fair > nair now.

Yo who cares about **** like "matches" and "opponents" when you have the PROJECT MANON V3.5 DEBUG MODE™ ?

Edit : ALSO I FORGOT BUT I'M ACTUALLY QUITE MAD AT MY FAVORITE GANON COLOR BEING GONE REALLY DID NO ONE THINK I WOULDN'T NOTICE JUST BECAUSE OF ALL THAT MELEE GANON FUSS COME ON PMBR WHATS THE POINT OF GIVING THIS MANY BUFFS IF I CANT ENJOY PICKING HIM ANYMORE I MEAN WHAT THE HELL

that was me 12 months ago when they removed my favorite Marth Colour ... Who the hell wants purple!?!?!?! (though the skin was pretty cool)

 

[GeZ]

First, I forgot to thank @ P Purple Stuff for bringing up Utilt out of WL. I've been really using that **** to death and finding the application of it and enjoying the **** out of it.

But I had a baby epiphany today when playing a match against my friends brothers scrub Link. He was spamming projectiles as he was want to do, and I was mixing up reflects and Bairs to get rid of **** he was throwing at me. I was pretty far away from him, which is actually important to this thing, when I thought "I wish I could just DACUS like twice the regular DACUS distance." then it ****ing struck me. He tossed a bomb which I reflected, and then a Boomerang.

So basically, I dashed forward a character distance > RAR Bair'd > WL towards him > DACUS

It covers so much stage it's ********. Literally crossed more than half the stage to Usmash him. He let his brother start playing again after that.

But you guys should give it a try, Just WL towards someone and DACUS at the end of the WL. When done just right it's this super smooth, crazy far reaching, slide Usmash. Really pimp.

In general I've actually been playing Ganon super mobility oriented. Lots of butter shoes (feat @Scuba Steve tm) and EcAWK, and DACUS, and all that ****. It's actually really awesome. I feel like we're so insanely mobile in this patch and it's great.

Also, in case you guys missed this sick thing, DOOOOF was using the reflect hit to reset after his opponents missed Flame Choke techs. It's pretty sweet. He also used it as a weak hit to tag his opponent without knocking them away. Like doing Dair > Neutral B > grab. All cool stuff.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

So, I was thinking that we should have a new Videos and Match-up thread on the boards for 3.5. Fresh start and whatnot.

Any objections?

 

[_Ganondorf_]

(Disclaimer: LONG POST! I'm gonna be suggesting even further changes to Ganondorf for possible future updates. Please don't judge my suggestions to harshly (especially if you didn't try it in action). I'm just brain storming and figured my fellow Manondorf mains would be the best place to throw my ideas off of. Also this is in no way not appreciating all the hard work that has already been done for Ganondorf. But alas the Demon King's heart only wants more and more and more...
*All credit for the unique animations goes to Ashingda)

I'm a big fan of both Smash Ganon and Zelda Ganon, and after seeing all the awesome "closer to canon" moves Ganon got in 3.5 it only got me more hyped for maybe even more stuff like it in future updates.

I'm a big animation fan. By that I mean I love cool looking animations in smash games (or any game) and Ganondorf having more unique animations has always been a nit-pick of mine for obvious reasons.

Now It's pretty evident that Ganon would remain with his Hand to Hand empowered by magic moveset, so I'm gonna be suggesting things with that design in mind (although I will always hold out hope for 3-4 sword moves being implemented by using down taunt, like Samus with Ice Beam taunt. Even with the sword taunt attack);

1: Grab range - yeah I know, I'm a broken record over here. deal with it . Don't know about you all but I would trade a better grab range with an even more drastic increase in KBG on down throw in a heart beat. Here is an example of a better grab range for Ganon in action (please ignore everything else) I personally used that mod and even with 3.0 KBG on down throw it wasn't anything outrageous. @ 1:13

Spoiler

2: Get Up attack -"who the hell cares about a get up attack animation?"... well I do ok? . Here is a cool example in the form of the OoT ground punch! @1:36

Spoiler

3: Up smash - everyone seems to like the current Up smash, well believe it or not it can be even better! It's probably gonna be a hassle to install 3.02 again just to test this out for your selves, but if you thought using DACUS with the current Up smash was fun you have no idea what fun is until you try this Up smash uppercut for your self! More horizontal range and a better hit box above Ganon's head makes this a great DACUS and a great follow up after aerial Flame Choke, it hits low! @ 0:35

Spoiler

Here is also a GIF

Spoiler

4: Down Smash - why was this move not changed already? I never liked it neither aesthetically nor mechanically. Here is a better version of the current (kind-of) Up tilt stomp as Down smash! Not only is this a great Smash in general but for edge guarding it works very similarly to Roy's Flare Blade on the bottom (the actual stomp) of the attack. @ 0:37 (video above)

5: Up tilt - since we (theoretically) have the stomp for Down smash how about a conventional Up tilt for some juggles? everyone likes juggles! @ 0:13 (video above)

- Now were going into what I think would think to be the more.... gasp... "radical" changes

6: Nair - I like Nair much more in 3.5 mechanically but the cloned animation from C. Falcon still irks the living hell out of me... how about something in the vein of this? (Hit box and animation could be made to match current Nair) @ 0:16 and 4:08 (video above) Or maybe make the animation of current Nair a little more unique and have some magic effects to it. I do like the move I don't want it changed too much. Unless...you really want to go evil Wizard with it! check out @ 2:06. Works similar to Mew2's Nair and looks bad***!

7: Up Special - how about a teleport? Com'on you know you want it... don't play coy with me, I know what you really want!
You can't fool me!!! Obviously acting out of teleport is a big no-no (see Mewtwo v3.02) But this would work without it. Also since (theoretically) the grab range was buffed keeping the old Up-B out of shield might be over kill on the whole grab department... right? idk... maybe? @ 1:59

Spoiler

Well that's all I got. I would love to hear from you guys if this stuff is actually viable for tourney play or not. Or maybe I'm just completely delusional and this stuff would never work. Also any PMDT member roaming on this boards please feel free to let me know if I should not hope for any of these types of things to happen, it would save me a lot of unneeded expectations in the long run. Thanks for reading!

 

[Yanoss1313]

So, I was thinking that we should have a new Videos and Match-up thread on the boards for 3.5. Fresh start and whatnot.

Any objections?

sounds good to me.

(Disclaimer: LONG POST!

You may be better off making a new thread.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

You may be better off making a new thread.

Maybe you're right... but some people don't like "extra/unneeded" threads so just to be safe I posted it on the social thread. If anyone else thinks I should make a new thread I will.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Man, I thought the crazy suggestions would stop once 3.5 hit. Don't we already have three threads for that jank? Just shove it there.

Anywho, I'mma make a new video and match-up thread. Let's get active and conquer 3.5, mmkay?

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Man, I thought the crazy suggestions would stop once 3.5 hit.

Don't we already have three threads for that jank? Just shove it there.

Hey! Not nice
are my suggestions really that "crazy"/"janky" anyway? most of them seem pretty reasonable maybe some even down right appropriate to me? Hey at the end of it all I just want our main man to be even cooler/better.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Hey! Not nice
are my suggestions really that "crazy"/"janky" anyway? most of them seem pretty reasonable maybe some even down right appropriate to me? Hey at the end of it all I just want our main man to be even cooler/better.

Ha, I didn't mean to come across as mean, sorry.

But we do have threads for that, and just about every suggestion we've had in each of those threads, including my own, are jank filled messes that are unlikely to ever be actually implemented anyway.

Then again, we got a ****ing hover, so anything's possible.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Ha, I didn't mean to come across as mean, sorry.

But we do have threads for that, and just about every suggestion we've had in each of those threads, including my own, are jank filled messes that are unlikely to ever be actually implemented anyway.

Then again, we got a ****ing hover, so anything's possible.

It's all good I was just playing around with the "not nice" thing (sarcasm is hard to do on the internet).

And yeah the hover/reflector is what made me so excited for even more changes. I mean we all knew Ganon was gonna be buffed but a ****ing hover/reflector!!!!! If someone was to suggest that prior to 3.5 they would be laughed at! So my head was just swarming with all these different moves I've used in the Triforce mod and thought to my self... why not? We did get something I would never thought we will get... EVER!

And some of the suggestions I made are pretty tame... Grab, Get up attack animation, more unique animation plus magic for Nair. Some are more drastic like Up Smash and Down smash/Uptilt but those aren't anywhere near the "hover/reflector level" just yet.
I would put the teleport and the "evil Wizard" Nair at that level, those could change Ganon's play style in a similar way to the way the hover/reflector did. But to an even lesser extent I think...

 

[teluoborg]

@ _Ganondorf_ "If someone was to suggest that prior to 3.5 they would be laughed at"
Yes, actually it happened and we did laugh at him, look at the "rumor has it" thread.

Ifyou want to keep on talking about the triforce mod and other moveset suggestions you should go revive the meta thread instead of starting a new one because this forum is already a mess with all the 3.5 hype currently unrolling.

Just seeing how we're discussing the changes in 3 different threads makes my OCD hurt.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

@ _Ganondorf_ "If someone was to suggest that prior to 3.5 they would be laughed at"
Yes, actually it happened and we did laugh at him, look at the "rumor has it" thread.

Ifyou want to keep on talking about the triforce mod and other moveset suggestions you should go revive the meta thread instead of starting a new one because this forum is already a mess with all the 3.5 hype currently unrolling.

Just seeing how we're discussing the changes in 3 different threads makes my OCD hurt.

Agreed, the forums are a bit of a mess. The old match up thread was rarely active, and new ones kept popping up. The main video thread post hasn't been updated in a good deal of time either.

Let's try and be good Kings of Evil and keep the forums in check, if not for your sake, then for teluoborg's.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

@ _Ganondorf_ "If someone was to suggest that prior to 3.5 they would be laughed at"
Yes, actually it happened and we did laugh at him, look at the "rumor has it" thread.

Ifyou want to keep on talking about the triforce mod and other moveset suggestions you should go revive the meta thread instead of starting a new one because this forum is already a mess with all the 3.5 hype currently unrolling.

Just seeing how we're discussing the changes in 3 different threads makes my OCD hurt.

Yeah I saw that thread.

Ok I will.

Also yeah OCD is a pain sometimes... lol

Since I have a not obvious OCD with at all with animations... mine is going in over drive since we got cool new animations for the rolls and spot dodge BUT the air dodge didn't get a new animation in that style... the OCD is legit killing me!!!!!! Please based PMDT I beg you to have it match the theme of the other dodges. (I hope I didn't make anyone notice this if they haven't before, if I did I'm sorry)

 

[Purple Stuff]

Edit : ALSO I FORGOT BUT I'M ACTUALLY QUITE MAD AT MY FAVORITE GANON COLOR BEING GONE REALLY DID NO ONE THINK I WOULDN'T NOTICE JUST BECAUSE OF ALL THAT MELEE GANON FUSS COME ON PMBR WHATS THE POINT OF GIVING THIS MANY BUFFS IF I CANT ENJOY PICKING HIM ANYMORE I MEAN WHAT THE HELL

Rip the golden Gman. He will be very missed.

The James Brown Combo: (watch in 720p for 60 fps.)

The Basic Start of the comb:

From there you have different options for the jab follow up. Example:

Personally, I like to do it out of reversed Uair. Hell, I like to do everything out of reversed Uair. Hitting with the end of that animation lets you squeeze out that fast hit of Nair into turn around jab to keep em stunned, then you follow up. Its not a combo lock going from the Uair to Nair so I think you can get retaliated against. I checked it in Debug mode, Its like a 2-3 frame window of no hitstun. So Its a pretty small window. Nair into turn around jab is airtight. The follow up should still hit while in hitstun also.

Turn around jab is just great. It lets you bridge that gap between hits to keep a combo going. First hit of Nair while canceling the second is pretty awesome as well. Not a lot of knock back, so leads into jab and etc nicely. I really like the dynamic you get from trying to hit with the ending animation of moves in order to go into fast follow-ups as well as turning attacks around. I wish the PMDT would explore giving him more options like this. It makes for a really interesting ganon to me.

Mr. James Brown:

 

[| Kailex |]

first one looks like a smash 4 "combo"

 

[Purple Stuff]

That's why you reverse it.

Yea, don't know if this would actually work. no DI and stuff being taken into consideration. Hoping people try it out in play and report back on viability.

 

[Yanoss1313]

That's why you reverse it.

Yea, don't know if this would actually work. no DI and stuff being taken into consideration. Hoping people try it out in play and report back on viability.

i'll give it a go

 

[CORY]

that looks beautiful, regardless, purple stuff : O

 

[teluoborg]

Looks very SDIable, but which combo isn't ? Nice find Pstuff. And it looks like the split to Jab is frametight.

 

[GeZ]

@ P Purple Stuff Seems sweet. My only worry is that its a super low percent thing so it takes a really big mistake on the opponents part, but thats fine because nothing feels better than busting out that crazy set up and taking the stock to blow peoples minds.

Also I'd like to suggest a "go ahead and try it" to the WL DACUS thing I talked about earlier, cause I'm curious to your impressions.

 

[Purple Stuff]

Also I'd like to suggest a "go ahead and try it" to the WL DACUS thing I talked about earlier, cause I'm curious to your impressions.

Ah, DACUS out of waveland. Yea it covers some dam good ground. I do it out of a ledge dash to get to center stage quickly. People who like to camp middle don't expect it sometimes, so its nice when it connects. I picked that one up from vex. I've always wanted to do it out of a bair hit to try and follow up, but can never remember to do it.