Janon social thread : Lair of the Floating Back Slapping Missile Reflecting King of Evil

[Yanoss1313]

Hey guys I got a question that kind of has to do with me playing Ganon.

I use an HDTV to play PM and I experience a bunch of input lag (even though I got an adapter for HD for the Wii) so I've been using the Input Assist option thinking this would be the equivalent if playing on a CRT/LCD.

I've got quite good at wave dashing and wave landing etc. now but recently through some reading I understood the Input Assist makes advance techs easier. Which would make sense if you use a CRT with no input lag. But if I wanted to go to a local friendlies or even compete would me training my Ganon tech with Input assist on HDTV than playing with it off on a CRT be a viable option?

I know, random questions. But you guys always got the right answers

On a hd tv, the input lag comes from the post processing in the tv, it has nothing to do with the signal your wii is putting out. If anything, a hd converter would even add some delay.

To answer your second quest, Sadly, no.
you can learn to wavedash and dacus, but nearly every other piece of tech requires some visual queue for timing. and unfortunately, there's simply no way to compensate for this with input assist (frame buffer). So any really advanced stuff you learn on that tv wont work on a crt until you relearn the timing... which as you could understand, gets you rapidly killed at events.

you wouldn't believe my disappointment a few years ago when i bought my first HD TV to find it was useless for gaming (i'm very sensitive to input delay). I took it back that same day and got a smaller one. lol

Edit: I only noticed afterwards that like a million people already answered.

I think you'll be fine. The inputs are still the inputs you just gotta realign the timing. Although I reccomend trying to find a lagless flatscreen. Hard to come by but worth it.

That's what i got a year or so ago... i was walking down the street and someone had thrown out the biggest rear projection flat screen i'd ever seen.
I thought to myself, "man, that thing must be broken, but wouldn't it be great if it worked"
When i got it home (with some help from my brother) we found it worked perfectly, 0 input delay and the thing was bigger than i am. =D
Moral of the story: Go for walks at 11:30 at night.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Edit: oops, double post

 

[Bazkip]

On a hd tv, the input lag comes from the post processing in the tv, it has nothing to do with the signal your wii is putting out. If anything, a hd converter would even add some delay.

This is mostly incorrect, it has almost everything to do with the signal coming from the Wii. Wii outputs in analogue, this needs to converted to digital and upscaled to display on a HDTV. A HD converter just changes where the analogue -> digital process takes place, dunno if it's any faster but I would assume so since it's a specialized piece of equipment designed to do so, and would be kinda pointless if it didn't. Post processing does add some delay but isn't as much as the aforementioned stuff, and can be (mostly) turned off by setting your TV to Game Mode if it has one.
Though it still won't be as good as CRT.

 

[Bazkip]

I came across this on Reddit and it's glorious, PMDT we need this right now

What I want is to make it to if you hold down the taunt that makes him spin and laugh, he'll just keep on spinning and laughing till you let go of it

And he slowly keeps spinning faster and faster until he actually begins to rise. Then, he starts rising faster and faster until he hits the blast zone and dies.

Maaaaaybe not the second part lol

Spoiler

I want to get off Mr. Ganon's Wild Ride

 

[Yanoss1313]

This is mostly incorrect, it has almost everything to do with the signal coming from the Wii. Wii outputs in analogue, this needs to converted to digital and upscaled to display on a HDTV. A HD converter just changes where the analogue -> digital process takes place, dunno if it's any faster but I would assume so since it's a specialized piece of equipment designed to do so, and would be kinda pointless if it didn't. Post processing does add some delay but isn't as much as the aforementioned stuff, and can be (mostly) turned off by setting your TV to Game Mode if it has one.
Though it still won't be as good as CRT.

Most HD TVs support straight analogue signals. the part where you mentioned "this needs to converted to digital and upscaled to display on a HDTV" Has nothing to do with input delay in most cases (yes that is true in some). You'll find the exact same delays running from a ps3 though hdmi as you will running a wii through component or composite most of the time. (this can be tested with megaman 9)
And while many of the delays can be reduced by enabling you TV's game mode, there are many post processing effects that are ignored in most cases. And enabling game mode will never entirely eliminate the lag all-together.

If someone just HAS to play on a hd tv. I would recommend Playing on a Sharp Quattron. (that was the best choice a few years ago, i haven't done any research on it recently to see if there is a better option now)

I came across this on Reddit and it's glorious, PMDT we need this right now



Maaaaaybe not the second part lol

Spoiler

I want to get off Mr. Ganon's Wild Ride

I like it =D

 

[Ace55]

Yeah seriously, Ganon destroyed ICs in Melee. I definitely wouldn't sweat it in PM.

This has to be the only matchup where I miss old side-B though. Although you can go for some hilarious kamikaze kills on Nana if percents and stocks make it a good trade.

 

[Bazkip]

Most HD TVs support straight analogue signals. the part where you mentioned "this needs to converted to digital and upscaled to display on a HDTV" Has nothing to do with input delay in most cases (yes that is true in some). You'll find the exact same delays running from a ps3 though hdmi as you will running a wii through component or composite most of the time. (this can be tested with megaman 9)
And while many of the delays can be reduced by enabling you TV's game mode, there are many post processing effects that are ignored in most cases. And enabling game mode will never entirely eliminate the lag all-together.

If someone just HAS to play on a hd tv. I would recommend Playing on a Sharp Quattron. (that was the best choice a few years ago, i haven't done any research on it recently to see if there is a better option now)

I'm not too certain about that, HDTVs work with digital signals I don't see how they can go about that without needing to convert it. Also definitely not true for composite being the same cause it'll have to deinterlace the video and that takes a lot of time.

Also yeah I talked about how Game Mode improves stuff somewhat but doesn't solve anything...

 

[Yanoss1313]

I came across this on Reddit and it's glorious, PMDT we need this right now



Maaaaaybe not the second part lol

Spoiler

I want to get off Mr. Ganon's Wild Ride

I'm not too certain about that, HDTVs work with digital signals I don't see how they can go about that without needing to convert it. Also definitely not true for composite being the same cause it'll have to deinterlace the video and that takes a lot of time.

Also yeah I talked about how Game Mode improves stuff somewhat but doesn't solve anything...

in regards to composite, i was just assuming it was similar (was sort of talking out of my arse there )
But yeah, in nearly all cases adding a device mid line will effect the input delay. Even signal splitters like capture devices will do this (though in the case of a capture device it's usually just smoothness, not input delay) Edit: this is specifically refering to component signals as the voltage can be effected
Though in my tests with megaman 9 a few years ago I found no difference between component on wii to hdmi on ps3.

Admittedly the camera i used for the tests only had standard Pal frame rates, so it could only be accurate to within around 1 ish frame. 1 frame of error is forgivable (if you're not a fox main )

Either way, we can all agree that it's better to just use a CRT

 

[Bazkip]

in regards to composite, i was just assuming it was similar (was sort of talking out of my arse there )
But yeah, in nearly all cases adding a device mid line will effect the input delay. Even signal splitters like capture devices will do this (though in the case of a capture device it's usually just smoothness, not input delay)
Though in my tests with megaman 9 a few years ago I found no difference between component on wii to hdmi on ps3.

Admittedly the camera i used for the tests only had standard Pal frame rates, so it could only be accurate to within around 1 ish frame. 1 frame of error is forgivable (if you're not a fox main )

Either way, we can all agree that it's better to just use a CRT

Oh I'm in the same position about the converter as you are with composite lol, I just figured it should be better cause otherwise it doesn't seem to serve much point. Don't actually know much about it.
Component cables are gahliek tho.

And definitely yes on that last point, though those speciality monitors are good too. Just expensive D:

 

[CORY]

I came across this on Reddit and it's glorious, PMDT we need this right now



Maaaaaybe not the second part lol

Spoiler

I want to get off Mr. Ganon's Wild Ride

i still want the hidden taunt on dair to be a thing : /

 

[Yanoss1313]

i still want the hidden taunt on dair to be a thing : /

Like have him laugh or something

 

[teluoborg]

Maaaaaybe not the second part lol

 

[Bazkip]

omg

 

[ShadowGanon]

This guy...

http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-take-over-my-old-ganon-guide.379784/#post-18059106

 

[Yanoss1313]

This guy...

http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-take-over-my-old-ganon-guide.379784/#post-18059106

It's not like we were trying to be mean to the guy... It seemed like he was taking what was meant as constructive criticism as like... personal jabs aimed directly at him. *shrugs* Iunno.

Gotta have thick skin on this here internet.

 

[Bazkip]

And nothing of value was lost

 

[RelaxAlax]

I said it once, I'll say it again

The frauds will be found. The true Ganons shall rise and reign supreme. #OG #OriginalGanon

Also yeah I main Falcon and Jiggs in Smash 4 for now. Falcon feels like PM Ganon in some ways, maybe its just Uair. Ganon is ... a bit hard to play with. I have him on the side, but I'm comfortable with him as of yet. Bair is pre nice though. Wanna play some PM again but got a big tourney in 2 weeks. Baz knows lol

 

[Bazkip]

Come to Montreal
We have PM tournaments

Montreal > Toronto

 

[RelaxAlax]

If I monay then yeah. Perhaps because my gf wants to go lol When do you have tourneys? We have em too but I'm too lazy to go to em lol

I need to brush brush brush my skills on Ganon.

 

[GeZ]

Perhaps because my gf wants to go lol

I know about this life. I wanted to hit up a tournament on Tuesday night for Smash 4 and P:M, but my girlfriend wanted a snuggle buddy for schleep, so I missed it D:

What is life even

 

[Bazkip]

If I monay then yeah. Perhaps because my gf wants to go lol When do you have tourneys? We have em too but I'm too lazy to go to em lol

I need to brush brush brush my skills on Ganon.

This Saturday
You can totally make it gogogogo

 

[Spralwers]

I really wanted to go, but its thanksgiving weekend here in the states =\ too much going on.

 

[| Kailex |]

Meanwhile, cant travel, and just a limited amount of decent players in the middle east

 

[teluoborg]

Where are you in the middle east ? I think I remember Dubai but I'm not sure. Is it a place where it's cool to go on vacation ?

 

[| Kailex |]

I sense a visit, and after that some pm ganon dittos. Yes I live in dubai, I dont like the place for various reasons, but its a good place for tourism, doesnt have much though.

 

[| Kailex |]

I advise that you dont waste your vacaion time anywhere here

 

[teluoborg]

Aww, but I've never seen Dubai. Is it that bad ?

 

[RelaxAlax]

Honestly I think I'll make a guide 3.5. Also y'think maybe his chain-grab will be removed/harder to execute? That's why I wouldn't put too much time into figuring it out

It's good feeling smart, Knowledge is power, and Power is Power #Power.

EDIT: Also, How I feel about myself when I'm wrecking someone

 

[| Kailex |]

Its not that dubai is bad, Im saying that because there are better places to visit other than the United Arab Emirates. Its your choice anyways, dubai doesnt have many tourist spots, and its mostly business and shopping over here.

 

[CORY]

It's good feeling smart, Knowledge is power, and Power is Power #Power.

EDIT: Also, How I feel about myself when I'm wrecking someone

yo, that grab range, tho!

 

[Coastward]

@ RelaxAlax you're going to the next PM monthly right? if you are were gonna train and take over toronto.

 

[RelaxAlax]

@ RelaxAlax you're going to the next PM monthly right? if you are were gonna train and take over toronto.

Let's do it. I haven't played PM in a week or so but my Ganons been getting better with every monthly. 3.5 should yield interesting results ...

Grand Finals - Ganon Dittos.

Ganondoronto.

 

[Coastward]

that video is trademarked by me you cant steal my joke ever again ok.

i havent played PM since 3.5 was released LOL.

 

[RelaxAlax]

LOL thats why I used it

I miss PM and the float shenanigan. Smash 4 Ganon ain't doing it for me. He's a good troll character in for glory tho

 

[Bazkip]

yo, that grab range, tho!

It's almost as good as Marth's

@ Coastward you gonna be at Smash Intensifies or The Come Up?

 

[Coastward]

It's almost as good as Marth's

@ Coastward you gonna be at Smash Intensifies or The Come Up?

ill be at TCU, school is too much of a hassle right now to attend both.

 

[Bazkip]

ill be at TCU, school is too much of a hassle right now to attend both.

Cool, Ganon party in Toronto then

Look out for a Mudkip hat to find me

 

[RelaxAlax]

I'll make cookies. They'll look like dair.

 

[Coastward]

I'll make cookies. They'll look like dair.

ill cape them into your mouth.

 

[Bazkip]

I'll Ganoncide the cookies into my stomach