ithrowthings Sonic tutorial Video

[DKpunch!]

I videotaped a tutorial that ithrowthings created, and FINALLY got it uploaded. Sorry for the delay, man.


ithrowthings Sonic Tutorial


I'm sure ithrowthings would appreciate comments.

 

[LuCKy]

lol that was pretty funny........well the taunting part was haha im gonna try the break dancing one for sure as for the rest of the video uhhhh im not sure if it could help too much lol but you never know

 

[Repryx]

Hmmm....Fail you gotta learn ow to use sonic....Live and LEarn Dude....Live and Learn...

 

[Shadowlyger]

Something that has always bothered me...

How the HELL do Sonic's feet move in a perfect figure 8? IT MAKES NO SENSE! I can see them doing it, but I can't imagine how one would move their feet to make that effect...

Guess I'll just have to look at it in slow motion in training mode. =P

 

[RedrappeR]

Something that has always bothered me...

How the HELL do Sonic's feet move in a perfect figure 8? IT MAKES NO SENSE! I can see them doing it, but I can't imagine how one would move their feet to make that effect...

Guess I'll just have to look at it in slow motion in training mode. =P

Play Sonic CD.

 

[Kr3w]

lol, the break dance totally destroyed Ike

 

[J18]

bahaha i love the commentary

 

[Kreeeee]

Very rare for these things to actually include some decent humour without the author looking like an idiot. congrats

 

[Shadowlyger]

Play Sonic CD.

... How? >_>

Also, in Sonic CD it makes even less sense, all you see is a red blur in the form of a figure eight. I want to know how his legs move in a figure 8 like that, because natural leg movement seems to move your feet in more of a circular motion.

 

[RedrappeR]

... How? >_>

Also, in Sonic CD it makes even less sense, all you see is a red blur in the form of a figure eight. I want to know how his legs move in a figure 8 like that, because natural leg movement seems to move your feet in more of a circular motion.

*sigh*

Well it depends on continuity. The first explanation is a device that tails made that snapped to Sonic's shoes, in order to help him create the technique. That's the archie explanation at least.

The other idea is control over his legs. I'm too tired to draw it out, but it's possible. Just slow down his taunt and you'll see what I mean.

 

[smashbro29]

comic doesn't count just sayin

 

[Shadowlyger]

I accept all forms of Sonic canon, INCLUDING the comics.

However, I've stood in place and walked, and my feet definitely move in a circular motion. How he gets that figure eight without moving his feet in some bizarre fashion is beyond me.

But, hey, like I said, I suppose I'll just go into training mode, put it on the slowest setting, and see for myself.

 

[Milln]

Tee hee. Excellent humor mixed in with explaining the attacks. I'll keep in mind that breakdance taunt kills.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

You can combo outta uthrow with uair. Fail tutorial.

EDIT: This guy is ********. Don't use springboard, dair is useless, nair has zero uses? Wtf, this guy fails. Dash attack to ftilt is usable, but this guy seems to not notice that you can do that, either? Gatling is good, he didn't mention the usmash's good priority.

The guy can't even sh consistently. Garbage tutorial.

 

[DKpunch!]

You can combo outta uthrow with uair. Fail tutorial.

EDIT: This guy is ********. Don't use springboard, dair is useless, nair has zero uses? Wtf, this guy fails. Dash attack to ftilt is usable, but this guy seems to not notice that you can do that, either? Gatling is good, he didn't mention the usmash's good priority.

The guy can't even sh consistently. Garbage tutorial.

Interim, I'm not sure if you own the game or not, but actually the tutorial makes sense as far as priority. Springboard is pretty bad for anything but recovery, and even then it's easily spike-able. Dair seems to have crap priority... it's only useful for mindgames, if you plan on catching your opponent off-guard while he comes at you in the air. Bair and Uair are soooo much better than Nair.

^ All spoken from experience playing the game, and playing against ithrowthings. A bunch of us just sat and played 1 on 1's for literally DAYS, and we've learned a lot about Sonic's priority troubles.


I agree that the moves in the tutorial are not the most powerful moves in Sonic's arsenal, and are mostly situational. However, a lot of the tutorial talks about what moves you can use to start combo's, and approaches. It's true that anyone who picks up Sonic is going to spam the dash attack, due to its speed and combo into Utilt. However, it's got a lot of priority issues, and a pro player won't let Sonic do that.

Sonic is definitely a mindgame character, so you'll notice that ithrowthings basically asks players not to be predictable; don't overuse dash, don't try to be "smart and do this [hits opponent with spring]," don't neutral-B in the air because it'll never hit, etc.

 

[SpyX]

I like Sonic and I want to know:

What moves you use when the game start with him?

 

[spartan334]

as bad as you made him sound i'm still going to main him...

 

[Popuri]

There must be something we are overlooking >_<

there has to be...

maybe we need to think outside the box a litle i.e; he's ground speed means he will have a very easy time swiping items so will probably be lots of fun to use against non-tourneyers. (most of my friends use items)

I feel really sorry for Snake having such an easyly exploitable final jump, I hope they aren't just making fun of non nintendo characters. u_u

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Interim, I'm not sure if you own the game or not, but actually the tutorial makes sense as far as priority. Springboard is pretty bad for anything but recovery, and even then it's easily spike-able. Dair seems to have crap priority... it's only useful for mindgames, if you plan on catching your opponent off-guard while he comes at you in the air. Bair and Uair are soooo much better than Nair.

^ All spoken from experience playing the game, and playing against ithrowthings. A bunch of us just sat and played 1 on 1's for literally DAYS, and we've learned a lot about Sonic's priority troubles.


I agree that the moves in the tutorial are not the most powerful moves in Sonic's arsenal, and are mostly situational. However, a lot of the tutorial talks about what moves you can use to start combo's, and approaches. It's true that anyone who picks up Sonic is going to spam the dash attack, due to its speed and combo into Utilt. However, it's got a lot of priority issues, and a pro player won't let Sonic do that.

Sonic is definitely a mindgame character, so you'll notice that ithrowthings basically asks players not to be predictable; don't overuse dash, don't try to be "smart and do this [hits opponent with spring]," don't neutral-B in the air because it'll never hit, etc.

Odd, I actually DO have the game. Springboard can be used for canceling all lag on the dair, making it viable for pressure (sh, upb, dair, gatling/grab). Also, you can use it for early kills up top. I've killed SDSG's Falco at 80% on... Smashville? Uair, springboard, uair. It's utility, to be sure.

Nair is used much like a weak hit of Peach's nair, or the last part of Ness's Fair (both for Melee, of course). Knock them off, fly out with a surprise nair for earlier percent gimps. It has an odd sending angle that none of his other aerials possess, and a pretty weird hitbox. If you come flying off the stage with your back to them, they know to look for either bair or springboard spikes, face them, and they have either fair, spring, or nair to try and predict. It's still his worst aerial, as it has no purposes on-stage, but it's not useless, honestly. Try it next time you guys play, it's knockback is decent enough.

Pro players will mix between dash attack into ftilt (doesn't work on Lucas, aside from that, I've nailed everyone ever with it), sh fair, grabs, or shield cancelled fsmashes for spacing games. For now, the dash attack is one of his best approach options. If they clash with it, you can toss out an ftilt with little fear of repercussions.

Sonic is definitely a mindgame character when it comes to kill moves... hell, anything, due to his low low looooooooooow priority, but tossing up tutorials for a character and telling people to avoid move x this early in will really hamper metagame development.

As is, his random jabs and smashes in his actual matches make him seem scrubbier than he ~hopefully~ is. Hard to take the tutorial seriously, even if he's totally right about the neutral b and breakdance.

 

[Braggadocio]

I don't think this is the final word on Sonic. I see though, that priority might be a major weakness for him...

 

[MrLegend]

judging from videos, some of the things said sound wrong. UpB looks very good for chases as Interim said. Also, homing attack looks good to use in combos since it homes, goes fast and far while the enemy is in lag.

 

[Mikezor]

Homing attack is REALLY situational. Like... REALLY situational. ITT was right about that much. You can just DI away from it to get away. It has more uses in teams, due to decent knockback, but is still pretty meh.

EDIT: This is Zeal, at a friend's house.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Sonic is terrible. Brawl has less hit stun than melee and it makes it hard to combo. Reduced hit stun makes it almost always unsafe to try to link attacks and gives a huge advantage to characters with higher priority and disjointed hitboxes.

Characters that have no projectile or disjointed hitbox get ***** by this, like Sonic. He's fast and is supposed to be able to combo, but he gets punished easily if he tries to. Keeping a projectile, sword or high priority attack out at all times makes things super hard for sonic.

Uair,UpB, Uair is not a combo. You might catch some people offguard, but they will be able attack or dodge before that second Uair comes out.

Despite this, I Sonic still seems usable with mind games and hit and run tactics.

 

[squarez]

Haha nice tutorial, funny "it's ghey" comment on that last move. Hopefully more people will make more video tutorials.

 

[MrLegend]

since when was making fun of homosexuals funny? Go back to elementary school.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Sonic is terrible. Brawl has less hit stun than melee and it makes it hard to combo. Reduced hit stun makes it almost always unsafe to try to link attacks and gives a huge advantage to characters with higher priority and disjointed hitboxes.

Characters that have no projectile or disjointed hitbox get ***** by this, like Sonic. He's fast and is supposed to be able to combo, but he gets punished easily if he tries to. Keeping a projectile, sword or high priority attack out at all times makes things super hard for sonic.

Uair,UpB, Uair is not a combo. You might catch some people offguard, but they will be able attack or dodge before that second Uair comes out.

Despite this, I Sonic still seems usable with mind games and hit and run tactics.

lololololololololololololololol, someone's claiming they know metagame already

Sonic's uair is like Fox's old uair. Two hits, one of which has obscene priority, and seems to be a disjointed hitbox. Uair, UpB, Uair is veeeeeeerry situational, but works perfectly when you set it up, due to this.

Also, sonic can Uthrow double uair most larger characters at 0-10%, guaranteed. Peach is an exception, but at around.... 40% you can uthrow single uair her, tangent upon DI. If she goes behind you, bair, if forward, fair. Though really, if you anticipate the DI, you can follow and catch with the sideswipe of the uair.

Sonic can indeed combo, though he's no CF yet. Also, not all characters with disjointed hitboxes have the advantage against Sonic. GaW, D3, and Marth are all easily punishable the moment they take to the air, or do an attack. D3 is the exception, due to being able to hide behind waddle dees (to an extent), as well as CG Sonic for obscene damage. Ike is slightly different, in that once you get in, you can mess him up badly, but if he predicts you right 3-4 times, you're dead.

A majority of Sonic's approaches are ground based, and require either power shielding, or knowing when to spot dodge in his run/usmash/whatever. Still, once you've got the feel for it, he does relatively well.

Sonic is NOT godly, by any means, or possibly even good. Until there are more combos to link into his kill moves (jab cancelling into fsmash is meh at best, and it's rare that you can throw into bair, if it occurs at all), he's going to be very frustrating for anyone without a decent grasp on yomi layers to play as. Personally, I'm fine with this, since it means I won't have to worry about too many scrubs massing tournaments with Sonic, at least for now.

EDIT: Uair, UpB, Uair works mainly against space animals. They're still ******** easy to combo. Take it with a grain of salt, though. You have to set it up perfectly, or else they can get away. I only had like... 2 opportunities for it throughout a whole tournament. D:

 

[Emblem Lord]

This tutorial is fail.

U-throw is the worst cuz it can't kill till really high?

Ever heard of a combo set-up?

D-throw sucks cuz it can't set-up for combos? Uhhh, tech chase set-up anyone?

His best throw is b-throw. Wow. This guy is clueless.

Down B is bad? It's better then side b, at least thats what most people agree to. Anyway the spin dash and spin charge are for tech chasing purposes or set-up for combos when your opponent whiffes are abuses SH's stupidly.

Nair is bad? Uhhhh, it's his best aerial for SHFFing. No lag at all. Pretty sure he can nail free grabs if he fast falls with it.

Dash attack A is crap? It's pretty much impossible to punish on block and it's quite fast, making it one of the most spammable moves in the game.

U-tilt is bad? Use it after u-throw at low percents then get back to me. And if you watch that vid again, you see that the range of the u-tilt is quite deceptive. It hits a little bit in front of Sonic, so his opponent doesn't have to be right on him to hit with it.

D-tilt is bad? Uhhhhh, in a game where mobility and speed is limited it becomes that much harder to space yourself, and any tool that gives you a way to adjust that becomes an asset. D-tilt moves Sonic forward while he does it and comes out fast and ends fast. It's good.

Uair is good. He got it right. Jab combo is amazing and sets up tech cashing very nicely. He got it right.
D-smash is good. So is u-smash. F-smash is more a whiffed move punisher. But it's still nice.

I have to test forward b and down b more, but so far they both look ok. But I think one of them will end up being good making the other obsolete.

Forward tilt very nice. Nice range and fast. Pretty safe as well.

Also let me explain something baout priority.

It doesn't exist.

Not in the conventional sense anyway. Do you really think there is some hidden program in a game that decides what attack beats what? lol. No. It's alot simpler then that. Think of priority as a substitute word for something else. Attacks that beat other attacks usually have one or more of these different traits. They include quick execution, a large hitbox, a disjointed hit box, invincibility frames, alot of power. Also when an attack is already in motion it can be beaten by a faster move. Sounds obvious, but hey it's true and worth remembering. In most fighting games if two attacks hit at the same time then both fighters take damage. So you can see that true priority, which would come into play when two attacks connect, doesn't exist.

If one attack overpowers another then it's usually just because the winning attack has invincibilty frames on it and/or a disjointed hitbox. Ryu's shoryuken in ST is an example of a high "priority" move. But that's just thanks to the speed, the wide arc of the attack, and the 5 frames of invincibilty that the Shoryuken has.

Speed is also a big factor. CF gets outprioritzed alot in melee because his aerials have a tad bit of delay in their start up time. Especially on his Dair. Not so much on his nair. Shiek can easily stuff approachs since her f-tilt has good range, speed and decent hit box. Therefore it is deemed as a high "priority" move.

Just some food for thought. Also attacks that use a characters bodt will have less "priority" then someone who attacks with a weapon.

Edit: I think Sonic will be high tier. He is very hard to punish and predict in good hands. And he can easily run out and gimp your recovery.

 

[MrLegend]

Really? Everyone else thinks that its really hard to pull off any of Sonics moves/combos and won't be near high.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

That video is only good in terms of approach, regarding his other moves as useless this early is well... erroneous.

(shameless advertisement)See my topic about the better situations to use his other attacks.(/shameless advertisement)

And yes, I agree that the side taunt is the best mindgame Sonic has.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Why is everyone trying to make sonic a combo master in a game where it's very hard to combo in the first place?

Stick to the basics.

Jab combo. U-throw to u-tilt at low percents. F-throw to Fair at low percents. Side B to bair.

Once they are off the side gimp them hard.

Homing attack is good for recovery BTW. Don't know If I mentioned that.

Also people keep saying that sonic isn't good cuz all he has is hit and run tactics.

Ok?

Hit and Run in a game with limited mobility and few combos is a bad thing? Think people.

Use that speed to punish lag. When tech chashing use the shield approach. Jab combo then run up to where they will land and shield. If they do a normal wake or wake up attack, then shield cancel to jab combo, u-smash, d-smash, or shield grab. If they roll away then drop shield and dash towards them to d-smash, u-smash, or grab.

If they don't tech, then it should be easy. if they do tech then you should still run towards them and shield, but you will have to react faster to get them when they tech roll or anticipate it. this is a time where reading your opponents habits will pay off. Still Sonic's speed should prove to be a great asset in terms of being able to react to tech rolling not just predicting it.


Also I shall reiterate. That guide was failure.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

All my goes to Emblem Lord.

 

[Napilopez]

Go Emblem Lord

 

[MrLegend]

It all sounds good but I'd rather see it in a video to make sure it actually works.

 

[RedrappeR]

Sonic can't be High tier. That doesn't work. His accessibility is what limits that. I still predict mid.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Because Captain Falcon is really easy to play as.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Ah Emblem Lord, that's nice thinking, mind if I quote you in my topic?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Because Captain Falcon is really easy to play as.

This.

Sonic is like melee CF in alot of ways. Namely mobilty and how hard he is to control. Guess what? When people learnded to control CF he was then seen as high tier.

Hmmmmmm.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Seriously, we shouldn't try and label tiers yet, or even guess on placement. There hasn't been a single large tournament yet, and the game hasn't even been out for a month. Quit acting like we know everything already. Marth wasn't viewed as being top tier, or even high, until Ken, and people thought that Sheik might need to be banned originally. Don't be stupid.

 

[Emblem Lord]

To be honest I just say that to shut nay sayers up.

I don't care what tier he is.

I don't think he will be low tier though. His ground game looks solid and his edgeguarding game looks good too thanks to homing attack and his fair.

 

[MrLegend]

Tiers are in general something that should be a bannable offense for mentioning since its so **** early. Its starting to bug me that people are using the word so often. I don't think we really need another post talking about it though.

Also, how well do Emblem Lord's combos work? Videos would be awesome.