It was fun while it lasted

[Jackson]

Yeah the Falco buff is pretty cool: he can SHDL now. It's still kinda laggy but it's nice.

 

[mc-clap-your-hands]

did anyone else notice sheiks f-tilt does 4% now instead of 3%

 

[mc-clap-your-hands]

i noticed sheiks f-tilt does 4% now instead of 3%

 

[Darklink401]

did anyone else notice sheiks f-tilt does 4% now instead of 3%

If so, that is absolutely beautiful.

 

[saviorslegacy]

i noticed sheiks f-tilt does 4% now instead of 3%

It done 4% before the nerf.

 

[_Tree]

So my computer dies and I'm not able to get onto Smashboards for a few days. I return to find Bouncing fish nerfed, the chain-grab unecessarily removed and DACUS gotten rid of before we even have a chance to use it?

Why.

 

[saviorslegacy]

So my computer dies and I'm not able to get onto Smashboards for a few days. I return to find Bouncing fish nerfed, the chain-grab unecessarily removed and DACUS gotten rid of before we even have a chance to use it?

Why.

 

[Darklink401]

Also upair was nerfed.

Good times.

 

[Tristan_win]

So my computer dies and I'm not able to get onto Smashboards for a few days. I return to find Bouncing fish nerfed, the chain-grab unecessarily removed and DACUS gotten rid of before we even have a chance to use it?

Why.

VI has also been removed so Sheik combo game has been greatly extend. I also feel this is the reason why Uair was nerf so Sheik wouldn't be too over powered.

Real talk.

More combo's = more fun. As much as I HATE the idea of losing dacus and having BF nerf I can over look that if I'm able to easily combo beyond 100%.

edit: After doing a short study with @ saviorslegacy we confirm Sheik BF is now a guarantee combo on De3 from 0-65% no matter the DI.

It use to be 20%, think about that as you dry your tears.

Everyone think about that.

 

[_Tree]

I already had a huge amount of problems with this game, and this does nothing but add salt to the wound. The fact that they aren't taking input from the community on how to balance characters is just proof of their arrogance. I'm gonna stick with it for now, but If they remove all depth from this game I may just drop it.

Edit:

we confirm Sheik BF is now a guarantee combo on De3 from 0-65% no matter the DI.

You two are the only lights in this cold dark abyss.

 

[Orion*]

what new lingo is this de3 ish. I just go to tournaments and skipped the whole smashboards trip this game around.

 

[Steam]

So my computer dies and I'm not able to get onto Smashboards for a few days. I return to find Bouncing fish nerfed, the chain-grab unecessarily removed and DACUS gotten rid of before we even have a chance to use it?

Why.

because sheik was probably the best character in the game. and with removal of vectoring allowing her to combo almost anyone at a lot of %s for a lot of damage, she might be even better.

 

[Orion*]

vectoring being removed does throw some interesting things in the mix. But I feel like the people saying you need to be more creative with your kills are delusional. You already had to do that in order to beat good players with this character. BF was godlike, but if it got spotdodged on stage you were eating a smash- peoples reactions just werent trained yet (let alone a proper joystick). Offstage BF while obnoxiously strong was still a 50/50 airdodge read, and if you were smart and recovered low it was more of a risk on sheiks part.

I don't really mind the move being nerfed, or her combo game for that matter because to a certain extent it was just mindless to do at some points. That said in terms of how we balance characters, I just think they made her a piece of glass without a cannon.

Sheik struggled with killing and we all knew that, but has amazing movement and combo ability. If you're going to nerf her combo ability, and her kill options- then it makes sense to balance her with better damage output (since her moves dont really do that much) or just make moves like dsmash more accessible as a hard read kill option. I don't even mean anything crazy. But reading a roll and killing w. dsmash at like 150 and 170 on heavies or something wouldn't break the game lmfao.

Atm she's still a good character, and I think that with a cstick if someone just perfected her gimps she will be usable- but for some matchups it's just not worth the amount of stress. You can overcome lack of kill options, look at falco in brawl. But that said, you run into a consistency problem if you're trying to do well in major tournaments, and because of that you are going to have to rely on reading Multiple steps ahead to get your kills. Not that that's a bad thing, but how consistently do you think you can do that to a player like mew2king???

I'm still gonna use her, but I just feel like the process they went to balance her from was ********. It was like, hey these moves we have an issue with because they scrub people out- lets not look at all the other useless options she has in neutral lmfao. It's obvious that I'm salty about it because I have a personal investment to the character at this point- but I also have tried to break it down and look at what I think she's capable of analytically. In short, her viability depends entirely on her being able to perfect gimp the cast with a cstick. So it's gonna be a few months of labbing with a gc controller with a secondary, and then making a decision.

 

[Tristan_win]

what new lingo is this de3 ish. I just go to tournaments and skipped the whole smashboards trip this game around.

Hahah, it's not new at all just outdated. People were using things like De3 and Zamus back in 08 when Brawl come out.... Obviously no one does anymore because it's silly but I still catch myself using it by accident.

 

[Steam]

the mere existence of bouncing fish keeps her from having landings punished extremely hard like a lot of other characters in the game are vulnerable to, though her lagless aerials do that as well. Sheik still has her ludicrously strong neutral game and will always have it. As players get more and more perfect sheik will get stronger and stronger as IMO at perfect play sheik is untouchable. She does still kill really late most of the time, but remember a lot of her low% damage is pretty free with her combos off of almost anything. She requires doing a lot of work to win each match, but her strength in neutral does a lot of that work for you.

 

[Darklink401]

What I love about Sheik is, her aerials have such low endlang she can jump almot immediately after them, so the opponent cannot shieldgrab her.

 

[Quickhero]

VI has also been removed so Sheik combo game has been greatly extend. I also feel this is the reason why Uair was nerf so Sheik wouldn't be too over powered.

Real talk.

More combo's = more fun. As much as I HATE the idea of losing dacus and having BF nerf I can over look that if I'm able to easily combo beyond 100%.

Everyone think about that.

Please tell me what combos that you use. I've mostly been playing Marth and a bit of Sheik and I felt the nerfs hard, but it's okay. If I know how to combo with Sheik efficiently I'll probably like this Sheik more than pre-nerf because Sheik's comboing potential with harass and speed was what got me hooked, not how meta she was lol.

 

[Darklink401]

Please tell me what combos that you use. I've mostly been playing Marth and a bit of Sheik and I felt the nerfs hard, but it's okay. If I know how to combo with Sheik efficiently I'll probably like this Sheik more than pre-nerf because Sheik's comboing potential with harass and speed was what got me hooked, not how meta she was lol.

I 0-deathed a Shulk yesterday with Sheik. (I was like wuuuuut)

Close range needles, for stun (optional. Also was situational), multiple ftilts, into like 4 SH fairs (well, technically 2 short hops, but 2 fairs for each hop).

If you time it right, you can also catch them with an up B when they jump to recover.

But Shulk couldn't recover.

 

[Hayzie]

Sheik fanboys & fangirls going ham over a couple of changes that made her go from extremely beast to still pretty beast. People just want everything so they can win. If the new changes were there from the start, nobody would be complaining. Like nerfs are a bad thing all of the time.

Okay, I haven't tried her since the change, but still. It in no way sounds like she'll be changing tiers from the one she's already in. She's pretty deadly and complete in all regards.

 

[Darklink401]

Sheik fanboys & fangirls going ham over a couple of changes that made her go from extremely beast to still pretty beast. People just want everything so they can win. If the new changes were there from the start, nobody would be complaining. Like nerfs are a bad thing all of the time.

Okay, I haven't tried her since the change, but still. It in no way sounds like she'll be changing tiers from the one she's already in. She's pretty deadly and complete in all regards.

Her kill options were reduced, but yeah, she doesn't play differently at all

Still pretty beast.

 

[vypex]

Sheik fanboys & fangirls going ham over a couple of changes that made her go from extremely beast to still pretty beast. People just want everything so they can win. If the new changes were there from the start, nobody would be complaining. Like nerfs are a bad thing all of the time.

Okay, I haven't tried her since the change, but still. It in no way sounds like she'll be changing tiers from the one she's already in. She's pretty deadly and complete in all regards.

not having any true killing moves is a very detrimental especially going up against heavier characters like bowser DK and ganon, who can eat our shots and deliver a counter that at low percents sends us flying off stage.

 

[Darklink401]

not having any true killing moves is a very detrimental especially going up against heavier characters like bowser DK and ganon, who can eat our shots and deliver a counter that at low percents sends us flying off stage.

Dude, are you kidding?

Sheik eats slow characters for breakfast.

ESPECIALLY Ganon.

If you rush them, they can't even attack. They can't even breathe.


I WILL admit though, it's kinda scary that we do like 10 attacks to them to get them to 45%, then they do like 2 to get us to the same amount.

 

[Hayzie]

not having any true killing moves is a very detrimental especially going up against heavier characters like bowser DK and ganon, who can eat our shots and deliver a counter that at low percents sends us flying off stage.

While true, you can run laps around those heavyweights and have them wish they could touch you. It's not like powerhouses don't think how deity they'd be if they were Sheik's speed.

 

[Darklink401]

While true, you can run laps around those heavyweights and have them wish they could touch you. It's not like powerhouses don't think how deity they'd be if they were Sheik's speed.

This is so true.

If I see a Ganon and I'm Sheik...well, let's just say I've always 2-stocked those matches.

With just 2-3 fairs out of stage, Ganon will already be too far to recover anyway, so lack of powerful moves isn't even a hindrance here. Sure, Bowser and DK have better recoveries (or, more horizontal ones) but the same principle applies.

 

[Hayzie]

This is so true.

If I see a Ganon and I'm Sheik...well, let's just say I've always 2-stocked those matches.

With just 2-3 fairs out of stage, Ganon will already be too far to recover anyway, so lack of powerful moves isn't even a hindrance here. Sure, Bowser and DK have better recoveries (or, more horizontal ones) but the same principle applies.

And she's still so good. She's quite flexible and has both long-range and short-range attacks that sting. I mean, I can see why she was nerfed to be honest as always. She was literally too good/near perfect, if not.

 

[Darklink401]

It's also still relatively easy to KO with sweetspot backair. In fact, that might just be her strongest current killing option. Which, considering how you can drag opponents across the stage with it, isn't too shabby.

Sheik is ridiculous.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Sheik fanboys & fangirls going ham over a couple of changes that made her go from extremely beast to still pretty beast. People just want everything so they can win. If the new changes were there from the start, nobody would be complaining. Like nerfs are a bad thing all of the time.

Okay, I haven't tried her since the change, but still. It in no way sounds like she'll be changing tiers from the one she's already in. She's pretty deadly and complete in all regards.

Wait, so you're judging us for our opinions when you haven't played her yourself? ohmy.

Sheik's needles got a big nerf, now having lag after thrown, meaning follow ups are harder.

Bouncing Fish kills at about 144% now, not really reliable anymore.

fair, while still fast, got a damage reduction, which means it'll take longer length wise to kill your opponent.

uair got a nerf, and that's self-explanatory.

Sheik is most likely not moving full tiers. She is staying High tier, but I think she will go from #2 to #5-10, she got the biggest nerf out of the top 10 bunch.

 

[Darklink401]

Wait, so you're judging us for our opinions when you haven't played her yourself? ohmy.

Sheik's needles got a big nerf, now having lag after thrown, meaning follow ups are harder.

Bouncing Fish kills at about 144% now, not really reliable anymore.

fair, while still fast, got a damage reduction, which means it'll take longer length wise to kill your opponent.

uair got a nerf, and that's self-explanatory.

Sheik is most likely not moving full tiers. She is staying High tier, but I think she will go from #2 to #5-10, she got the biggest nerf out of the top 10 bunch.

Greninja says hi.

 

[Hayzie]

Wait, so you're judging us for our opinions when you haven't played her yourself? ohmy.

Sheik's needles got a big nerf, now having lag after thrown, meaning follow ups are harder.

Bouncing Fish kills at about 144% now, not really reliable anymore.

fair, while still fast, got a damage reduction, which means it'll take longer length wise to kill your opponent.

uair got a nerf, and that's self-explanatory.

Sheik is most likely not moving full tiers. She is staying High tier, but I think she will go from #2 to #5-10, she got the biggest nerf out of the top 10 bunch.

Who's really judging? Sheik is amazing. Needles were hecka brutal (they still might be), which I think helps out with especially people who rely/spam that move. They're fast and not always the easiest to dodge if you don't see it coming (unlike Mario's fireball). I think in terms of fight against Sheik 1st, not player as her. So reading someone's moves and going in for the attack after them spamming that move allows me to get in. I also expect the same for when I am Sheik. It's a discipline, not a free win. So nerf? Not a big deal, I think.

Sheik is nimble, who's to say Bouncing Fish should have been that deadly in the first place? People who put up a good fight can get to 144% damage and still fight. Shoot, I main Mega Man and often I'm still not K.O.'d over 200% by skilled players. Bouncing Fish is a good attack to get them way off stage for a kill.

Regardless of nerfs/buffs... her speed and moves are still devastating. Fans are mad because they won't have it as easy now. Put up the fight.

Look, I'm not saying that if she received no buffs/nerfs with the recent update and has remained the same that I'd complain, too. I'd be fine if she didn't change. I'm still fine even when she did. It's nothing too drastic and I can see why the change happened. Embrace it.

 

[FrogsOblivious]

I 0-deathed a Shulk yesterday with Sheik. (I was like wuuuuut)

Close range needles, for stun (optional. Also was situational), multiple ftilts, into like 4 SH fairs (well, technically 2 short hops, but 2 fairs for each hop).

If you time it right, you can also catch them with an up B when they jump to recover.

But Shulk couldn't recover.

Noob here. Tried doing two fairs in one short hop... could never land more than one. How do you do it?

 

[Darklink401]

Noob here. Tried doing two fairs in one short hop... could never land more than one. How do you do it?

Do one as soon as you leave the ground, and the other before you land. They're quick enough that you should be able to do it, if you start up the first one as you leave the ground.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Wait, so you're judging us for our opinions when you haven't played her yourself? ohmy.

Sheik's needles got a big nerf, now having lag after thrown, meaning follow ups are harder.

Bouncing Fish kills at about 144% now, not really reliable anymore.

fair, while still fast, got a damage reduction, which means it'll take longer length wise to kill your opponent.

uair got a nerf, and that's self-explanatory.

Sheik is most likely not moving full tiers. She is staying High tier, but I think she will go from #2 to #5-10, she got the biggest nerf out of the top 10 bunch.

The primary use of needles is to force the opponent to approach. This is still a thing. You usually have better options at close range.

BF was mainly used as a punish tool and as a ledge guard at high percents. Since most of the kills with BF at the ledge is over kill anyways I feel as if this is not a strong nerf.

Fair was reduced by 1%.... that is nothing.
It's knock back was reduced so that means more combos.

Uair basically did not get a nerf. Because VI was removed Uair kills earlier, but because Uair kills later now it is about where it was before. We basically lost an iffy CG that next to no one used.

I honestly think Sheik is leaving this better than she was before simply because VI was removed.

Greninja says hi.

Just keep saying that and let Greninja go undeveloped.

 

[Darklink401]

The primary use of needles is to force the opponent to approach. This is still a thing. You usually have better options at close range.

BF was mainly used as a punish tool and as a ledge guard at high percents. Since most of the kills with BF at the ledge is over kill anyways I feel as if this is not a strong nerf.

Fair was reduced by 1%.... that is nothing.
It's knock back was reduced so that means more combos.

Uair basically did not get a nerf. Because VI was removed Uair kills earlier, but because Uair kills later now it is about where it was before. We basically lost an iffy CG that next to no one used.

I honestly think Sheik is leaving this better than she was before simply because VI was removed.

Just keep saying that and let Greninja go undeveloped.

Believe it or not, I only started using Greninja after the nerf. Before he felt...weird to me.

Hard to explain.

But apparently he got hit pretty damn hard.

 

[Othayuni]

Honestly, I'm doing great right now. All the things that were nerfed--bouncing fish, fair, uair, maybe ftilt--seem to be doing their job just as beautifully as normal, even though they've been softened a bit. I can't tell if it's just a question of being up against no-good players, but I don't mind needing an extra 20% damage to finish people with bouncing fish. Some people were complaining that sheik was overpowered--like, metaknight level overpowered. If that's true, I think it's better that we're toned down a bit while being kept good than, I don't know, banned from tournaments.

 

[Orion*]

With blast zone reduction on the wii u version life is gucci. Never touching the 3ds again lmfao

 

[Jackson]

With blast zone reduction on the wii u version life is gucci. Never touching the 3ds again lmfao

Agreed. Console is where it's at.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I think she's definitely going to be just fine in Wii U.

No need for doom and gloom in Sheiksville. lol

 

[Orion*]

She's fine on wiiu, but meh on 3ds post nerfs.

Also bowser vs sheik isnt bad for bowser. Maybe like in like a year i could see it metagame that way like mk vs snake.... but Homie has god ledge trapping and oos options in comparison to ganon. Not the same class of characters

 

[Darklink401]

She's fine on wiiu, but meh on 3ds post nerfs.

Also bowser vs sheik isnt bad for bowser. Maybe like in like a year i could see it metagame that way like mk vs snake.... but Homie has god ledge trapping and oos options in comparison to ganon. Not the same class of characters

Definitely not.

Poor Ganon.