It was fun while it lasted

[vypex]

Bouncing fish was a nice finishing move, but nerf to it totally hit me hard, against standard players i was still at the same level, but once i hit a higher level player i totally hit a wall, bowsers who i would almost never lose too were getting up to 180 before i was able to get any finishes on me, again playing against a higher level player i was two stocked a couple times, lack of finishing punch was taken away for the most part, only finishing move i can rely on now is bair so gonna have to shake the rust off my use of that move, even skilled mario's need to get them around 150ish before i can finish them off.

opinions? or ideas on what to do

 

[wolfos144]

Up smash works as well. But that's pretty much it in terms of our killing options. Sheik got nerfed pretty hard. I highly doubt she is top tier anymore.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Fun fact: They nerfed Bouncing Fish KB but not Jellyfish or Pisces. This is amusing when you consider that those moves were already significantly stronger than Bouncing Fish prenerf.

 

[vypex]

Nerf was more in mind for For Glory since custom attacks not allowed there

 

[cleverpurplelink]

im crying ;(
nintendo WHY!!!!
you give us sheik players hope and then crush it!
also i am in a place where i cant download the new update and i was wondering if sheiks up air has been nerfed?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

For Glory format is still godawful, though. Balancing around that or wanting to improve your skill in that mode is pretty pointless.

 

[Flux0r]

There's no reason to freak out, just because you need to get 10-20 more damage to finish them of with your precious Bouncing Fish, dosen't mean she sucks now. Her up-air can still KO most characters under 150%.

She is still a very good character and can still compete with the whole cast...

 

[Judo777]

Well problem is sheik already averages about 180 for kills against high level players. It will probably be bumped up into the higher 190s now.

 

[cleverpurplelink]

At least the characters that gave us prolbems are also nerfed so we might not have that big of a struggle.

like bowser and his annoying suicide kills. im so glad thats been removed.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Welp, it looks like Sheik has been dragged down to Pikachu's level. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't relieved. The matchup has always felt so janked.

 

[Jackson]

guys... Sheik is still extremely good. As for kill moves, try up B. It is VERY powerful. Be careful with it though.

 

[cleverpurplelink]

I feel like a magikarp.
Im just a useless bouncing fish.

 

[Equalox]

I feel like a magikarp.
Im just a useless bouncing fish.

heh.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I definitely don't agree with nerfing Bouncing Fish. It seemed like a decently balanced move because it was not only one of Sheik's only methods of kill, but it also took setup so it wasn't exactly just throwing out a move any time you want and calling it a day.

Ah well, hope there's something else.

 

[lRasha]

Tristan posted this in the Sheik Compendium thread.

On another note I decide to take the time to gather all the characters 'kill effect' percents for BF in training mode if they are standing on the edge of FD

Spoiler

| Kill effect
Jiggly | 110
game and watch | 114
kirby | 117
Rosalina | 117
pikachu | 116
Olimar | 118
Fox | 115
Falco | 118
Charizard | 143
Lucario | 132%
Greninja | 126
Duck hunt dog | 126
ROB | 137
Female Marth | 126
Ness | 129
Captain Falcon | 134
Villager | 131
WFT | 130
Mario | 131
Pit | 130
Sulk | 134
Pac man | 129
Mega man | 133
Sonic | 129
Luigi | 131
Peach | 125
Bowser | 152
Yoshi | 136
Bowser jr | 136
Wario | 137
DK | 149
Diddy kong | 126
Link | 135
Zelda | 122
Sheik | 120
Ganondorf | 141
Toon link | 128
Samus | 139
Zero suit samus | 118
Little mac | 120
Meta knight | 118
Dedede | 146
Robin | 129
Ike | 137
Marth | 126
Palutena | 126

 

[Judo777]

guys... Sheik is still extremely good. As for kill moves, try up B. It is VERY powerful. Be careful with it though.

Problem with Up B was it was the same as in Brawl. You have to read your opponent a solid 2 seconds in advance to land that move.

 

[saviorslegacy]

For Glory format is still godawful, though. Balancing around that or wanting to improve your skill in that mode is pretty pointless.

Pretty much this! How come a company who has said in the past that they do not want a competitive scene balance it towards a competitive scene as if it were a ****ing MOBA.

Nintendo doesn't give a rats ass about us.
**** us right? Those ****ing mother ****ers. And where the **** is the list that shows all of the updates?! What the **** Nintendo!? Are we supposed to play a ****ing guessing game!?

 

[Highwayman300]

So they pretty much butchered one of the only characters I like to use and the only one that I dedicated hours of effort?

Well, what a relief I suppose, saves me about 400$ +Tax, Good job Nintendo.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Sheik is still good, but I don't even think she is top 5 anymore. Maybe top 10, hopefully top 10.

 

[cleverpurplelink]

Nintendo is doing this because it thinks it can get away with it

 

[BJN39]

People who complain too hard about this nerf are just gonna look silly. Stop. now.

YOU CHAR IS STILL LIKE, CRAZY.

Like, everything about her still rocks aside from this minimal setback, no?

 

[saviorslegacy]

People who complain too hard about this nerf are just gonna look silly. Stop. now.

YOU CHAR IS STILL LIKE, CRAZY.

Like, everything about her still rocks aside from this minimal setback, no?

 

[Highwayman300]

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[vypex]

People who complain too hard about this nerf are just gonna look silly. Stop. now.

YOU CHAR IS STILL LIKE, CRAZY.

Like, everything about her still rocks aside from this minimal setback, no?

not really attacks don't do all that much damage, and lots of lag behind her basic attacks allow for quick grabs if the opponent is blocking, combo's are still there but again if opponent is blocking lag from previous attack unless at maximum range with the previous attack you are gonna get grabbed than combo'd

 

[cleverpurplelink]

People who complain too hard about this nerf are just gonna look silly. Stop. now.

YOU CHAR IS STILL LIKE, CRAZY.

Like, everything about her still rocks aside from this minimal setback, no?

your right but its more like were greiving the loss of easily our favroite move sheik had.
its like having all the Legend of Zelda games then one day you pop in ocarina of time to find that its instead zelda CDI. then yoy discover that every OOT is Zelda CDI. You would be really pissed. you still have all the other Zelda games and there all great but for now your pretty sad that you lost OOT for now

 

[Jackson]

guys CHILL this is still a good character

 

[SyncNatsyu]

Welp, it looks like Sheik has been dragged down to Pikachu's level. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't relieved. The matchup has always felt so janked.

Well maybe shiek can try gimping like pikachu now...maybe...
(Sheik still kills earlier than pikachu outside of gimping)

not really attacks don't do all that much damage, and lots of lag behind her basic attacks allow for quick grabs if the opponent is blocking, combo's are still there but again if opponent is blocking lag from previous attack unless at maximum range with the previous attack you are gonna get grabbed than combo'd

Feels like me playing jigglypuff when I mistake my spacing

 

[joaoTforce]

guys it's not like ONLY sheik got nerfed. Rosalina and greninja also got nerfed, and to be fair, greninja's nerf seems to be the worst one IMO.

 

[vypex]

Well maybe shiek can try gimping like pikachu now...maybe...
(Sheik still kills earlier than pikachu outside of gimping)


Feels like me playing jigglypuff when I mistake my spacing

Rosaluma should have been nerfed from the get go, only a 7 second loss of luma was insane for the chaos that little star could dish out, greninja's up smash was a little overpowered imo but the nerf he was hit with was unfair, his Dair with shadow sneak was a bug that slipped past the developers, again our bouncing fish was just a flat out nerf of a good KO weapon we had, and had to be good to effectively use it, cause once you missed it, you were open to counters, now we still are open to counters if we miss don't get the same risk/reward that we previously had, i'll learn to live with it, but still think it was kind of an unjust nerf, ike got a huge upgrade, makes me think that RYUGA is gonna be the champ of the next tournament he enters for sure.

 

[tebby]

ugh

i get if they need to balance out the game but these changes such and just make everything go slower

buff the weak characters a decent bit and the mid characters a bit too

im not finding sheik as fun to play as any more

feels a lot laggier

 

[Tristan_win]

Everyone calm the **** down.

Sheik will still be at least high tier.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Everyone calm the **** down.

Sheik will still be at least high tier.

It won't be top tier though. Out of all the nerfs, I think that needles is the worst. The ****ing lag at the end.. it prevents any sort of follow up, or makes it extremely hard. I used to do needles + grab in short distance or hell, even needles + BF, but it's pretty much not possible now.

Also, Uair doesn't hit as many times I think.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@ Tristan_win
They took away DACUS. I won't be able to sleep tonight.

 

[wolfos144]

I'll admit greninja got some hard nerfs, but the nerfs rosalina and diddy got were not nearly as bad as sheik's. Sheik definitely got nerfed the hardest out of all of them. This sucks man...

 

[LinkNIvy]

guys it's not like ONLY sheik got nerfed. Rosalina and greninja also got nerfed, and to be fair, greninja's nerf seems to be the worst one IMO.

Isn't Greninja's onlu non AT nerf that his usmash has more, much deserved lag? Diddy also didn't get touched and he was probably already the best character

 

[Tristan_win]

It won't be top tier though. Out of all the nerfs, I think that needles is the worst. The ****ing lag at the end.. it prevents any sort of follow up, or makes it extremely hard. I used to do needles + grab in short distance or hell, even needles + BF, but it's pretty much not possible now.


Also, Uair doesn't hit as many times I think.

We don't have the right to complain, be glad that Sheik isn't garbage. Lets be real here, things could be a lot worst. They could of nerf her grabs, made her slower, or increase the cool down on her moves. We only took a knock back nerf and made needles less spammy.

Sheik needles were insane, it's not too surprising to see they been nerf. We just need to be a bit wiser with them now, close range needle is still good just not AS good.

Sheik is still good, anyone who thinks otherwise is freaking out too much.

@ Tristan_win
They took away DACUS. I won't be able to sleep tonight.

I'm aware ~forces a smiles~ at least we never had the chance to reenter Dacus into our play before it was taken away.

 

[Quickhero]

I'm still going to play Sheik, but this is still way too much of a nerf, and at the very least, all the effort spent into Sheik's seems really for waste. As all the special mechanics learned from Sheik (ledgenading, bouncing fish off stage, up smash dash) is definitely for nothing. To be honest, even Sheik's standard down grab throw to up tilt is not possible anymore, or needles to b-down. A real shame, tbh.

 

[Jackson]

I'm still going to play Sheik, but this is still way too much of a nerf, and at the very least, all the effort spent into her seems really for waste. As all the special mechanics learned from Sheik (ledgenading, bouncing fish off stage, up smash dash) is definitely for nothing. To be honest, even her standard down grab throw to up tilt is not possible anymore, or needles to b-down. A real shame, tbh.

You can still ledge nade like you said, grenades were not touched.

 

[saviorslegacy]

at least we never had the chance to reenter Dacus into our play before it was taken away.

 

[Skellyton]

Even though i always hated fighting sheik, as a greninja main, i can sympathize with sheik mains since the ninja community got hit pretty hard