Is Smash 4 at risk of being the most forgotten Smash game?

[Sean²]

Honestly, I think so.

1. 64 started it all and created the platform fighter format. Unless you weren't born yet or too young to remember the N64, chances are you owned this game as a kid and were so amazed that you could put Mario and Pikachu in the same arena and make them fight each other.

2. Melee added onto 64's concepts and expanded the roster/stages/single player modes, and, you know, only sparked the entire Smash community which universally loved the series and still plays it on an international level as we know it today.

3. Brawl is a bit of a different animal. Subspace was the best adventure mode yet, 3rd party characters got introduced for the first time, and some of the best stages in the series were created. But when it comes to competitive play, this game's existence ripped the community so hard that the echoes of it still resonate today. No game in the series is more notorious than Brawl, and I don't think anyone who was around during that time is going to forget that.

4. And here we fall on Smash 4. The most remarkable thing I can think of in this game is DLC and an online mode that wasn't awful. And I played it even more extensively than I had played the previous games. Single player modes were lacking, Smash Tour was a really mind-boggling idea. It was a bit faster and had a more competitive edge than Brawl, but still ended up being a mess near the end. Add on the fact that every professional jumped ship immediately from smash 4 to Ultimate, and the fact that the Wii U was a complete failure of a console. And to be a bit subjective, something about Smash 4 was very 'sterile' feeling. Like it seemed like Sakurai and his team poured their heart and soul into 64, Melee, and Brawl, then Smash 4 just feels like they just phoned it in and made exactly what corporate wanted. I know Sakurai had some health issues during development so I'm not sure if that could be a factor. I just can't see anyone going back in a few years and booting up Smash 4 for any sense of nostalgia. I can see the 3DS version continuing because its the only truly mobile smash game yet.

Not sure how Ultimate will end up in the long run. They've obviously gone all out in an attempt to give players everything they'd ever ask for. I'm hoping I can continue to be optimistic about it.

 

[r4zzle]

People will forget about Project M (if you consider it a game) before sm4sh.

 

[Dan]

People will forget about Project M (if you consider it a game) before sm4sh.

Isn't this obvious? Why are people bringing a mod into this?

 

[Anthon1996]

There's that adrenaline once you get a lead on someone, but considering For Glory and competitive matches use 2 stocks, it wouldn't last very long, especially if the other opponent took a stock off of me. This paragraph probably feels weird to read, but that's the point: that's how I feel about Sm4sh in its entirety.

I always thought, from the very beginning, that 2 stocks was a bad idea for competitive. What were they thinking?

 

[zipzo]

2 stocks IMO ruined Smash 4, at least for me.

Even with the strong recoveries and defensive options that motivated the 2 stock ruleset, it just feels like there's not enough push and pull.

 

[Sean²]

That's another reason I had quit Smash 4 prematurely. Learning from people better than you was extremely difficult. You had next to no time to pick up on any habits with 2 stock games. Game 1 was usually a pointless effort and you'd leave the set not gaining any knowledge.

3 stocks would have been fine. I understand not wanting to repeat the extreme lengths that Brawl sets went to, but I think there may have been better ways to handle it. I sometimes think it may have been more of an effort to make Smash 4 seem more attractive to the FGC and large venues versus actually helping the players.

 

[SuperDoom1]

Well, considering besides that you have the original, the tourney, the adventure, and the finalé, I'm inclined to say yes.

 

[NeonBurrito]

Without a doubt. When thinking of the other games in the series, it isn't very hard to come up with some key points for each game:

• 64: The one that started it all.
• Melee: The competitive king.
• Brawl: The massive Subspace Emissary, third parties joining the battle, and massive mod support.
• Ultimate: Everyone is here.

However, when thinking about Smash 4, it's pretty hard to come up with something as significant.

• Customization?
• First game to be able to be played on the go?
• First game with not terrible online?
• First game to have DLC?
• Its terrible single player?

While all valid points, none of them really come close in my mind to comparing to the other huge points that the other four have. Ultimate really just feels like what Smash 4 should've always been, which really makes Smash 4 obsolete in my opinion.

 

[Veigar]

The only thing I associate smash 4 with is Cloud. The fact that he was in the game was enough to make it "memorable" for me, but like, what else is there besides that? He doesn't come with the base game anyways. Also, its title was complete trash. "Super Smash Bros. For Wii U" compared to Melee, Brawl, and Ultimate, just sounds so stupid. 64 had an excuse because it was the first game in the series.

 

[Dan]

The only thing I associate smash 4 with is Cloud. The fact that he was in the game was enough to make it "memorable" for me, but like, what else is there besides that? He doesn't come with the base game anyways. Also, its title was complete trash. "Super Smash Bros. For Wii U" compared to Melee, Brawl, and Ultimate, just sounds so stupid. 64 had an excuse because it was the first game in the series.

Was it ever confirmed if the "For" was to act as a "4", or was it coincidence?

 

[Ice-N-Space]

It isn't going to be forgotten any time soon with all the ways you can play it with Ultimate I have a hard time coming back to it as there is a big lack of modes to play and questionable character move changes.

 

[link2702]

Was it ever confirmed if the "For" was to act as a "4", or was it coincidence?

It definitely wasn’t a coincidence.

It was an intentional play on words, being the 4th game, but also being the only one that was split between a home console and a handheld.


I’m actually surprised when people either never made the connection, or truly believed it wasn’t intentional. It was obvious from the very first trailer when it showed there’d be a 3ds and wii u version.

 

[Sean²]

The only thing I associate smash 4 with is Cloud. The fact that he was in the game was enough to make it "memorable" for me, but like, what else is there besides that? He doesn't come with the base game anyways. Also, its title was complete trash. "Super Smash Bros. For Wii U" compared to Melee, Brawl, and Ultimate, just sounds so stupid. 64 had an excuse because it was the first game in the series.

I like to look at it this way. In today's age, games that are part of a larger series that have a release that only bears the series title are a reboot of some kind (See: Mortal Kombat 9, Devil May Cry). Smash 4 was neither a reboot nor reimagining of the series nor did it have an extreme gameplay differences from previous titles. When I see an artist/musician/whatever not give a piece of work a proper title, that usually means that they didn't care enough about it, or were not proud of it in some way to bother with a name. I know it's not uncommon for Nintendo to name their titles with the series title, and the console it's developed for. E.g. Super Mario 64, Super Mario Bros Advance, Mario Kart Wii, etc. Whether it was meant to be a play on words or not, something about the "for 3DS" and "for Wii U" seemed off (I have another theory that they had the "Ultimate" title reserved for the future game and calling it Super Smash Bros U would end up slightly confusing for fans to differentiate the two via abbreviations. But Ultimate's title in Japan is "Great Fray Smash Brothers Special", so the chance of me being wrong is high). It felt to me like Sakurai had the idea for Ultimate in the works for a long time, but Nintendo wanted a game sooner to bolster their failed console. Hence the immediate development of Ultimate with the same dev team directly after Smash 4 DLC was a done deal in 2015. I think maybe that, along with Sakurai's health issues he developed during Smash 4's development are why that game feels phoned in and soulless versus every other title. It was just a filler episode. A multi-million dollar filler episode.

I'm likely wrong, but it's fun to hypothesize.

 

[3D Dillon]

Although there are things exclusive to it, it may not be as remembered as the other games especially when you know how successful Ultimate is doing.

 

[Ryan.]

I'd say so, seeing as it doesn't have a real story mode or any modes that are superior to the ones in Ultimate (in my opinion). Also all the main stages and every character is back. Smash 64 might also be the most forgotten one but it does have that nostalgia as the OP mentioned. Melee has that competitive edge and Brawl has Subspace, so I can definitely see why this topic was made. All that being said, the hype train for Smash 4 was much more enjoyable to me, and it was an unforgettable experience. It's when I joined these boards and learned so much about other franchises based on all the character requests from them. It got me to dive deeper into the Smash community and even try competitive play, such as being in leagues and whatnot.

Also, I still don't own a Switch, and I may not get one. This will be the game I still end up playing lmao. Ultimate looks amazing, and I love that everyone is back, but I do not play that many games outside of Smash, so it will take more for me to buy a Switch. I bought a Wii for Brawl and a Wii U for Smash 4...only for most of its games I purchased to get upgrades/ports for the Switch. No, I'm not referring to Smash as a port when it clearly isn't, but outside of certain modes I didn't care about, Smash 4 doesn't really have anything that Ultimate doesn't. It's also upsetting to have spent so much money on Smash 4 DLC that's in the base game of Ultimate. I save my money and am careful about each purchase I make, and while there are so many great things about Ultimate which probably will make it the best Smash game of all time, I'm unsure that I'll be getting it.

Lol. Months later I broke down and got a Switch with Smash. Can't see myself playing the Wii U version ever again now whoops.

It's still really upsetting for those who spent all that money on the Wii U version and its DLC. But it was really fun while it lasted. I'm hoping Ultimate has a longer life.

 

[Sean²]

Lol. Months later I broke down and got a Switch with Smash. Can't see myself playing the Wii U version ever again now whoops.

It's still really upsetting for those who spent all that money on the Wii U version and its DLC. But it was really fun while it lasted. I'm hoping Ultimate has a longer life.

Predicting that it should. The Switch had better sales in 1 year than the Wii U had in 5. The Wii stuck around for 6+ years so Ultimate should have a long life unless Nintendo does something unheard of and releases more than 1 Smash game for the Switch. It's never happened before, though, so I don't have any doubts that Ultimate is here to stay.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You do still have to ask if Smash Ultimate is really worth abandoning Smash 3DS / Wii U. You've got all the fighters from the past games, but for a price, you've eliminated a lot of the notable solo game modes, you can't customize your fighters outside of Spirit battles, Final Smashes don't feel so unique anymore with a majority of them now copying Triforce Slash or Blue Falcon, and custom specials don't even exist outside of Miis; custom specials could've had potential if they were handled properly.

As such, it's probably better if people don't act like Smash Ultimate beats Smash 3DS / Wii U at everything, because that could end up becoming an overstatement as time passes.

Of course, I may also be saying this because Smash 3DS / Wii U had a lot of potential with their features (except for Smash Tour, which was really messed up), but Smash Ultimate tossed them in the garbage without any second thoughts; Smash Run could've easily hit the big time on the Nintendo Switch.

 

[Sean²]

You do still have to ask if Smash Ultimate is really worth abandoning Smash 3DS / Wii U. You've got all the fighters from the past games, but for a price, you've eliminated a lot of the notable solo game modes, you can't customize your fighters outside of Spirit battles, Final Smashes don't feel so unique anymore with a majority of them now copying Triforce Slash or Blue Falcon, and custom specials don't even exist outside of Miis; custom specials could've had potential if they were handled properly.

As such, it's probably better if people don't act like Smash Ultimate beats Smash 3DS / Wii U at everything, because that could end up becoming an overstatement as time passes.

Of course, I may also be saying this because Smash 3DS / Wii U had a lot of potential with their features (except for Smash Tour, which was really messed up), but Smash Ultimate tossed them in the garbage without any second thoughts; Smash Run could've easily hit the big time on the Nintendo Switch.

I think a majority here have been looking at it from a purely multiplayer standpoint.

I’m a believer that the game was rushed with the plan of releasing new single and multiplayer modes with patches later on down the line. I’m interested as to what 3.0 brings. We’re obviously getting a new mode of some kind with it.

Also I’ve been salty that I never go to experience Smash Run. I never owned a 3DS and probably never will. Why they chose to omit that from the Wii U version for Smash Tour is baffling. My only assumption was so they could sell 2 copies of the same game to people, which is even worse.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think a majority here have been looking at it from a purely multiplayer standpoint.

I’m a believer that the game was rushed with the plan of releasing new single and multiplayer modes with patches later on down the line. I’m interested as to what 3.0 brings. We’re obviously getting a new mode of some kind with it.

Also I’ve been salty that I never go to experience Smash Run. I never owned a 3DS and probably never will. Why they chose to omit that from the Wii U version for Smash Tour is baffling. My only assumption was so they could sell 2 copies of the same game to people, which is even worse.

It definitely doesn't help that Smash 3DS was never really designed to be competitive; every player needed to have his/her own 3DS system, and a copy of Smash 3DS.

As for why Smash Run was never in Smash Wii U, it's likely because playing that game mode on a split-screen format would end up taking a huge toll on the frame rate.

 

[UltimateXsniper]

So it's been a few months with Ultimate's release. I have to say, I haven't touched the smash 4 Wii U since and I only touched the 3ds version once and that was for comparing stages and movement. I've been mostly playing Ultimate while playing Melee on the side for a couple days a week, and I've played Brawl several times due to Subspace. What I said earlier before Ultimate came out has been confirmed true. I said if the gameplay wasn't a good, I'd go back to smash 4 and well, it's tremendously better actually imo.

The competitive scene is dead (to be fair it died before Ultimate's release) and other than stage maker (Which should be in 3.0 Ultimate's update according to dataminers), it's going to be forgotten on one of the more forgotten consoles. It's crazy to say because while Smash 4 has a ton of content and characters that should be considered amazing, Ultimate just ups it and does it better. The gameplay itself also just isn't worth coming back. With Melee being fast and technical, I can always come back because it's fun and unique. Ultimate's gameplay is faster than 4 and supports more aggressive plays while also introducing and changing other techniques. At this point, my prediction was correct and I can bet that I still wouldn't touch 4 for the rest of the year.

 

[lucasla]

The only think I preffer in Smash4 over Ultimate is the colors of the characters. In Ultimate, they have some glow in their silhouettes that makes me feel much more lost than I was in Smash4. In Smash4 Mario, for example, is super Blue and Red, while in Ultimate Mario is less colorful, and all the characters too, so, in games with 4 or more characters on screen I get much more lost when I'm launched cause it is harder to follow the characters, or recognize them on the crazy mess happening on screen.
Pikachu, another example, could be more yellow than it is now... I know there's something good about this new style, cause the characters looks more beautiful and with better lighting, but when it is in movement, with all characters together fighting on screen and being throw to many directions, it affects the gameplay cause they are all less colorful and glowing white all the time...

Other than that, Ultimate has basically everything that the WiiU game had (despite some irrellevant modes to me), so.. it's just like the case of Left 4 Dead 2 and 1. Left 4 Dead 1 content was totally integrated inside L4D2, so, there's no reason to anyone buy the original game anymore. I feel the same with Ultimate.

 

[SuperDoom1]

I only come back to Smash 4 for the extra modes and the mods.

 

[Yung Nikey]

Smash4 is the only smash game that doesn't have a shtick imo, since ultimate is basically Smash4 done right, so yeah I'd say it'll be the most forgotten smash game

 

[Yoshi_smash]

Other than that, Ultimate has basically everything that the WiiU game had (despite some irrellevant modes to me)

Ultimate doesn't have For Glory (Smash 4 online mode). Instead of having things separated into casual / competitive (which Smash 4 did), Ultimate mixes it all together into one online mode, frustrating both casual / competitive players. Many think Smash 4's online modes are superior to that of Ultimate.

 

[Dan]

Ultimate doesn't have For Glory (Smash 4 online mode). Instead of having things separated into casual / competitive (which Smash 4 did), Ultimate mixes it all together into one online mode, frustrating both casual / competitive players. Many think Smash 4's online modes are superior to that of Ultimate.

They did all this stuff like Battlefield and Omega stages but removed For Glory...

 

[Wiziliz]

Ultimate doesn't have For Glory (Smash 4 online mode). Instead of having things separated into casual / competitive (which Smash 4 did), Ultimate mixes it all together into one online mode, frustrating both casual / competitive players. Many think Smash 4's online modes are superior to that of Ultimate.

But Arenas.
Not as good as ARMS online, but still better than Smash 4's.

 

[Zinith]

I should probably mention this...

There's only one Smash 4 major held this entire year. Brawl has 3

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

But Arenas.
Not as good as ARMS online, but still better than Smash 4's.

Arenas get shut down whenever you change the rules, changing characters and stages are an annoyance, you cannot add CPU's and you cannot have multiple players on the same console.

I bet everyone would rather have friend rooms than arenas

 

[OnyanRings]

I should probably mention this...

There's only one Smash 4 major held this entire year. Brawl has 3

Oh wow, that's... Yikes.

 

[Wiziliz]

Arenas get shut down whenever you change the rules, changing characters and stages are an annoyance, you cannot add CPU's and you cannot have multiple players on the same console.

I bet everyone would rather have friend rooms than arenas

Yeah, they're not perfect. It'd be nice if the online play was as smooth and easy as ARMS, but it's better than the limited options of Smash 4.

 

[Yoshi_smash]

I should probably mention this...

There's only one Smash 4 major held this entire year. Brawl has 3

Is the one Smash 4 major (tournament) the one in Virginia? (Super Smash Con)

It's odd that the number of Smash 4 tournaments went from 30 tournaments in 2018 to just one in 2019 -- that's a 96% decrease in just one year. Because Ultimate came out in late 2018, a decrease in the number of Smash 4 tournaments was to be expected -- but a decrease of 96% is a bit high. Meanwhile, Melee has 14 tournaments this year (2019). It's amazing how when a new game comes out, everyone immediately abandons the old game and ignores it (i.e. planned obsolescence), as if the 5 years they spent getting good at that game (in this case, Smash 4) means nothing.

Still, that doesn't explain why the number of Smash 4 tournaments is 93% lower than the number of Melee tournaments in 2019. It appears that from a tournament point-of-view, Smash 4 is currently the most neglected and forgotten Smash game (despite the fact that it had 30 tournaments last year).

Here is a list of the number of major tournaments for each game in 2019:

Smash 64: 9
Melee: 14
Project M: 4
Brawl: 3
Smash 4 (Smash for Wii U): 1
Ultimate: 42

The number of tournaments per game in 2019 ranges from 42 for Ultimate to 1 for Smash 4.

Also, I am finding it very hard to find local Smash 4 tournaments -- most local (and even distant) tournaments are either Ultimate or Melee.

Yeah, they're not perfect. It'd be nice if the online play was as smooth and easy as ARMS, but it's better than the limited options of Smash 4.

Smash 4's online options are limited, but at least they are consistent -- meaning that if one goes to the 1 vs. 1 part of For Glory, they will get a 1 vs. 1 match 100% of the time. In Ultimate's online, from what I've heard, the rules are always changing and there is no guarantee that one will get a 1 vs. 1 match (or any other type of match). In addition, in Smash 4's "For Fun / For Glory" one can switch fighters without having to leave a room, whereas in Ultimate, the only way to change fighters (in Quickplay) is to leave who you're playing against. That's why a number of people have said that Smash 4's online is better than Ultimate's online.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

Smash 4's online options are limited, but at least they are consistent -- meaning that if one goes to the 1 vs. 1 part of For Glory, they will get a 1 vs. 1 match 100% of the time. In Ultimate's online, from what I've heard, the rules are always changing and there is no guarantee that one will get a 1 vs. 1 match (or any other type of match). In addition, in Smash 4's "For Fun / For Glory" one can switch fighters without having to leave a room, whereas in Ultimate, the only way to change fighters (in Quickplay) is to leave who you're playing against. That's why a number of people have said that Smash 4's online is better than Ultimate's online.

Not to mention that battle arenas don't allow cpu's or multiple players per console

 

[UltimateXsniper]

Not to mention that battle arenas don't allow cpu's or multiple players per console

I've heard they're allowing amiibos in arenas in 3.1.0. While it may not be normal CPUs and they still have stronger attacks and defense without feeding, it's still something and personally an exciting inclusion imo.

 

[Alicorn]

Four had the best online play and the extra moves meant you were able to adjust your playstyle with your character. I hope Ultimate brings those custom moves back I really liked those

 

[TempestSurge]

This will be less of a universal reason and more of a personal reason as to why Smash 4 won't be forgettable to me. Starting with Sakurai introducing the Invitational tournament, it was really the first time I got engaged in following the competitive scene. As in following players twitters, looking up to see who was or not registered in upcoming tournaments, constantly checking brackets, switching between multiple streams, the whole bounty on Zero's head to see who'd break his streak first etc. It was likely the hype of a new Smash and me having more free time finishing up my last few classes of college during those years compared to it being some revolutionary gameplay or anything drawing me in.

My favorite player to follow at the time was Ryu (obvs he was an Ike main lol) in a time when Ike was considered one of the worst characters but he had some clutch plays and hype sets during Smash 4's competitive scene. Civil War was my favorite tournament during Smash 4 era, the crew battle is still something I like to go back and watch from time to time for the commentary and Komorikiri's 'anime comeback' moment towards the end with Mr. R.

With Ultimate I was hoping to continue watching competitively since this game brought back all characters but quite a few players I followed were either not hitting their stride with Ultimate, character identity crisis, had other things going on in life and quitting, and I also learned some of the notable Smash 4 Japanese players had a hand in the development of this game (cpu data or something) so were not going to compete in Ultimate. So a lot of players I followed in the 4 scene aren't as active now in Ultimate or moved on to other things and thus I haven't been watching tournaments as much as I used to. And so that's sort of what keeps Smash 4 memorable for me at least.

 

[PRIME_EIGHT_PIZZA]

i don't think it will be forgotten imo.

 

[Yoshi_smash]

Forgot to say this: Smash 4 will be remembered by Yoshi fans as the only official smash game to feature black Yoshi as a playable fighter.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I should probably mention this...

There's only one Smash 4 major held this entire year. Brawl has 3

That feels very ironic, considering that of all the Smash Bros. titles that exist right now, Brawl is arguably the worst for competitive play. Also, not all Wii systems have GCN support, so that ends up being a big blow to those who just can't adapt to a different control scheme.

 

[GhostM]

Judging from what I’ve seen, I’m starting to think that Smash 4 is starting to fade away more quickly than any other smash game. Many players have moved on to Ultimate, and Ultimate right now has the most majors out of any smash game. I’m surprised that brawl has more majors than smash 4, and that’s a clear sign that the game is dying quickly. Most people will say that Ultimate is basically Smash 4.5, and I can agree that the online on Smash 4 is better than Ultimate.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that this might actually happen due to the Wii U's commercial failure and Ultimate continuing to get attention. Everything Smash 4 did Ultimate did better.