Is Smash 4 at risk of being the most forgotten Smash game?

[TheMisterManGuy]

We're about 3 weeks away from the launch of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, and the hype for the game couldn't be any higher. However as we move towards the future of Smash, it's time to look at where we left off. Super Smash Bros. For Nintendo 3DS and Wii U. A good game that with the launch of Ultimate, might prove to be for a lot of players, the most forgettable Smash Bros. game in the series. Most Smash Bros. games have something that keeps people coming back to it, or is famous in someway for. Smash 64 for nostalgia and its insane combos. Melee for its lighting-pace and seemingly endless technical depth. and Brawl, bad as it may be for competitive play, at least has its massive content and Project M to revisit on occasion.

But with Smash 4, what's there to revisit? The lack of single player modes hurts its longevity, some of the new modes are universally panned, and some of the returning ones were completely butchered (Wii U Classic mode being the biggest offender). Competitive wise, Smash 4 wasn't a perfect game, but many enjoyed it as a solid Melee alternative. But even there it's quickly being outclassed by Ultimate, who's gameplay and physics changes make Smash 4 look like a tech demo by comparison. Granted, many of Smash 4's weaker aspects were due to the limitations of its two platforms (3DS and it's small screen size, and Wii U with the game still needing to be playable with a D-Pad on the Wiimote), but also because the game stopped getting patched in 2016 shortly after Bayonetta's release, causing the game's meta to stagnate (main reason ZeRo retired).

Speaking of Bayonetta, her release also threw the game way off balance, and the lack of support resulted in the disastrous Grand Finals at EVO this year. Unlike Melee, Smash 4 needed software updates for its meta to develop, sadly it's life was cut short after only a year and a half of support, and didn't last too much longer afterwards. And of course, there's the obvious fact that Smash 4 was always kind of doomed from the beginning because it was on the Wii U to begin with.

I guess the point is, Smash 4 doesn't really have a special "thing" for people to come back to it or remember it by, since Ultimate adds more modes and features that fans wanted and refines Smash 4's engine so much to the point where the game may as well not exist for a lot of people. At least, this is just how I see it.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

As much as I enjoyed Smash 4, Ultimate is pretty much going to make it obsolete.
Ultimate improved the content that 4 messed up on(particularly the single player content and the balance between the characters even more) thus giving no reason to go back to 4 since it's on a dead console anyway.

Probably what hurt 4 was the huge focus on multiple player and the core gameplay taking priority over other things such as single player modes not being handled like in the previous games with nothing that makes it stand out.

 

[NintenRob]

I kinda feel that way yeah

Smash 64 is the original, won't be forgotten that easily and is the only mode with board the platforms

Smash Melee has its unique break the targets, adventure mode and the best event matches. (I don't give a crap about it's competitive nature)

Brawl had the Subspace Emissary, that alone already gives me a lot of reason to go back to imo.

Smash 3DS has Smash Run. The best side mode in Smash history.

But what will Smash Wii U have? Smash tour is laughable, classic was butchered. Event Match is sub-par, special orders are essentially just matches. I suppose it will be the largest roster that also included trophies, stadium and custom stages. Which I'll miss a lot, but it's not really something I'll go back to a past game for.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The things I'll miss on 4 are the trophies and Smash Run, and WOL will probably make the latter obsolete depending on the level structure. Apart from that, there isn't much to come back to since Ultimate will have nearly all the stages and music anyway. It doesn't even have a fancy title like the other Western releases of Smash sequels typically do.

Given the likelihood of the series to continue, 4 will definitely be seen as the awkward middle child of the family.

 

[Deleted member]

All of you have good answers to this question. I shall answer "yes", with one reason that it is getting harder to find good, recent SSB4 tournament matches on YouTube. I mean, every single one of us here are super-excited for the emergence of Ultimate, right?

Never cared much for the solo modes (Target Blast being a possible exception) because I hate fighting CPUs. Smash Tour was okay but Trophy Rush was pointless to me due to the Trophy Shop (to avoid picking up duplicates) and the fact I collected all costumes and custom specials. Subspace Emissary in Brawl, I will admit, was pretty good but I played it only once.

That said, Smash 4 may still have limited presence in locals or even regionals in terms of high-level play so it will not be forgotten altogether. Personally, Smash 4 has been my favorite game in the series thus far, so it will always have a place on my shelf.

Sayonara

 

[osby]

Dunno, I actually hardly ever see people remembering 64.

 

[papertiger]

I would say smash 64 or brawl as most forgettable.

 

[MercuryPenny]

smash 4 was part of the all-time peak of smash’s viewership and competition. the very idea of smash 4 being forgotten is absurd.

 

[---]

I think it's a bit early to tell, but I do think that it'll stay more relevant than 64 & Brawl currently are from a gameplay standpoint.

In terms of content, Ultimate does lack several single player modes, trophies, and custom movesets (also solo Charizard). The Wii U version, in particular, has the largest amount of missing stages in Ultimate. The 3DS version has Smash Run as a fun local multiplayer mode and is easier to carry around than a Switch.

The largest factor against the Wii U version at least, is that it's a Wii U game and as such didn't sell as well as previous games in the series.

 

[Swop]

Smash 4 to me is basically Bayonetta simulator with nothing fun about it, literally, the Single player is Non-existent and the only thing that kept it alive is the multiplayer aspect- which of course, smash is based around that but otherwise it doesn't feel like it has "soul" compared to Ultimate and the previous games, if that makes sense.

Honestly smash Wii U is the worst in the series I'd have to say, even though its keeping the Wii U alive on Life support right now (until Dec. 7, RIP Wii U) its definitely going to be forgotten in my eyes, because everything It has, Smash Ultimate does better.

 

[Lucasfan]

Sadly, yes.

 

[Fell God]

Yeah it will probably be tossed to the wayside after Ultimate comes out, but who honestly cares?

 

[Big-Cat]

It's not necessarily a bad thing as Ultimate could be considered an upgrade to Smash 4. It's like Tekken where people just go onto the next one because the base is either the same or drastically improved each time. It's not like Street Fighter where each series (2, Alpha, 3, 4, 5, and even EX) are all radically different from another.

Speaking of Bayonetta, her release also threw the game way off balance, and the lack of support resulted in the disastrous Grand Finals at EVO this year. Unlike Melee, Smash 4 needed software updates for its meta to develop, sadly it's life was cut short after only a year and a half of support, and didn't last too much longer afterwards. And of course, there's the obvious fact that Smash 4 was always kind of doomed from the beginning because it was on the Wii U to begin with.

I don't think it needed patches for its meta to develop. Rather the meta developed alongside the patches. It wasn't until the May 2016 patch that the meta grew on its own. The other thing is you have to take into account the differences between the two games. For better or worse, Melee had vastly different options available to players than those provided by Smash 4 and vice versa.

 

[solitonmedic]

I hope it does, honestly. It was a huge dumpster fire..

 

[Digital Hazard]

No.

Rather, it would be seen with awkward eyes.

Smash 4 was an ambitious title, yet one that didn't have the focus always in the right direction. You get things like wanting to cater to the competitive crowd by making the speed closer to Melee, you get the introduction of some requested characters like Pac-Man, Palutena or Mega Man, it brought surprises like Cloud Strife or Ryu, and it had various stages that will be fondly remembered.

However, then you get questionable content like the execution of For Fun and For Glory, the exclusion of an Adventure Mode due to Sakurai's feelings on the uploading of cutscenes (a statement I can understand, but disagree on), the lackluster execution of Custom Moves on a character that wasn't Miis or Palutena who are too gimmicky on it to efficiently rely on their default movesets anyway, Palutena is my waifu and it hurts me to say it but I accept it, lack of single player modes, PAC-LAND a stage I unironically like but I understand why you guys hate it, compromises to have it run on 3DS, and of course, Smash Tour.

Ultimate feels like a much needed upgrade in every aspect, having more of a spirit (pun intended) that Smash 4 had already, like Sakurai heard the complains from people and decided to fix them, new Adventure Mode, the fan favorites Ridley and King K. Rool, actual single player content, every character returning along most stages, etc.

Smash 4 is a good game, but one that as Ultimate was announced, its flaws started to become more apparent over a product that is superior. It won't be forgotten, but seen by many as a lackluster piece of Smash history that needed to be fixed and was done so by its sequel.

 

[DDRC]

Yes, smash 4 is g o n e

 

[Dan]

Yes; that is not to discredit it by any means, but with Ultimate essentially being an enhanced port, yes.

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

Yes; that is not to discredit it by any means, but with Ultimate essentially being an enhanced port, yes.

Far from it. It makes a lot of gameplay and visual changes that make it a full sequel.

 

[osby]

Yes; that is not to discredit it by any means, but with Ultimate essentially being an enhanced port, yes.

"Port" intensifies.

 

[lucasla]

What is Smash 4?

But seriously now... the fault is more on the console than the game. The WiiU died and is being buried. And Smash 4 lives inside Smash Ultimate. It's just like Left 4 Dead 2 that consumed Left 4 Dead 1 having all the content of L4D1 inserted into L4D2.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Some people might not be able to cope with Smash Ultimate's new mechanics very well, such as the way that perfect shielding is done in that game.

Anyway, the main issue that Smash Wii U will likely have is just being able to find a good conditioned Wii U system to play it on. I would find it very shocking if Smash Wii U ends up receiving less attention than Brawl, especially considering how poorly handled Brawl's balancing was.

Also, Smash Wii U does have the game modes that Smash Ultimate is currently lacking, such as Home-Run Contest. But in all fairness, how often do people play the solo games modes after completing everything?

 

[Crystanium]

No. This question is suitable for SSB or SSBB.

 

[voidwave]

I think it's likely to end up becoming the least accessible game in the series. The first three are easily emulated, and the Wii is one of the most circulated consoles of all time. And of course, the Switch has already outsold the Wii U, giving it a headstart.

 

[Dan]

No. This question is suitable for SSB or SSBB.

How so? One is the original and the other has Subspace (making it the "desert island" game of the series, imo); all Smash 4 has is the biggest roster, which is about to be eclipsed by Ulitmate.

I agree 64 does not got the love it deserves and is in danger of being extinct within the community; an N64 classic would help bring it to the forefront again.

 

[Crystanium]

How so? One is the original and the other has Subspace (making it the "desert island" game of the series, imo); all Smash 4 has is the biggest roster, which is about to be eclipsed by Ulitmate.

I agree 64 does not got the love it deserves and is in danger of being extinct within the community; an N64 classic would help bring it to the forefront again.

Being an original, as in, the first of the series, doesn't mean it won't be forgotten. As for SSE, so? If that's all that can be brought up just to make it relevant in a competitve scene, then that's unfortunate. SSBB is a game for casual players.

 

[Dan]

Being an original, as in, the first of the series, doesn't mean it won't be forgotten. As for SSE, so? If that's all that can be brought up just to make it relevant in a competitve scene, then that's unfortunate. SSBB is a game for casual players.

The Subspace Emissary has nothing to do with a competitive scene; the world doesn't revolve around the competitive scene you know.

The only reason people care/play Smash 4 competitively is because it's the newest game; it'll soon be thrown to the wayside in that regard as Brawl was, and without that, what do you hang your hat on that won't be made obsolete by Ultimate? Smash Run? Smash Tour? Yawn.

 

[Crystanium]

The Subspace Emissary has nothing to do with a competitive scene; the world doesn't revolve around the competitive scene you know.

The only reason people care/play Smash 4 competitively is because it's the newest game; it'll soon be thrown to the wayside in that regard as Brawl was, and without that, what do you hang your hat on that won't be made obsolete by Ultimate? Smash Run? Smash Tour? Yawn.

You're on a site mainly for the competitve scene, so . . .

Who cares about what happens to SSB4? Most fighting games come to an end and are replaced by the new one. People are so eager for the demise of SSB4. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even as we speak, SSBU is dying. Everything eventually comes to an end, even upon its conception.

 

[Dan]

You're on a site mainly for the competitve scene, so . . .

Who cares about what happens to SSB4? Most fighting games come to an end and are replaced by the new one. People are so eager for the demise of SSB4. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even as we speak, SSBU is dying. Everything eventually comes to an end, even upon its conception.

You got deep man, but I think it's a fair assessment that Smash 4 could potentially be the most forgotten game in the series because it'll be the least unique.

The point of thread was kinda speculating on Smash 4, so I'm assuming most people here care.

 

[Crystanium]

You got deep man, but I think it's a fair assessment that Smash 4 could potentially be the most forgotten game in the series because it'll be the least unique.

The point of thread was kinda speculating on Smash 4, so I'm assuming most people here care.

Potential doesn't mean anything unless it's actualized. How long are you willing to wait before you can seriously say, "I forgot SSB4 existed" or the like.

 

[lucasla]

I hope it dies. If not, it means Ultimate failed.

I want everyone migrating to Ultimate to play it online for the game always have a good ammount of players searching matches with similar properties than me.

 

[UltimateXsniper]

As much as I love smash 4, if I find the gameplay to be better than 4 then it's hard to see me coming back even for once in awhile occasions. There's no redeeming qualities for me to return to smash 4 Wii U except for crazy orders honestly. Classic mode is ruined except for the final boss, smash tour is awful, I can't think of any reason to come back for something the others don't have. It's a shame too because this game is more fun to play than brawl and 64, but lacks an adventure mode and the new game is likely going to be better in almost every aspect. I just don't think the gameplay itself will hold me over like melee does.

The 3ds version is the one I think I will come back for because of smash run, classic mode is better, more portable than the switch so I could have more scenarios with it, and I can't let my red smash 3ds collect dust of course.

 

[godogod]

I kinda feel that way yeah

Smash 64 is the original, won't be forgotten that easily and is the only mode with board the platforms

Smash Melee has its unique break the targets, adventure mode and the best event matches. (I don't give a crap about it's competitive nature)

Brawl had the Subspace Emissary, that alone already gives me a lot of reason to go back to imo.

Smash 3DS has Smash Run. The best side mode in Smash history.

But what will Smash Wii U have? Smash tour is laughable, classic was butchered. Event Match is sub-par, special orders are essentially just matches. I suppose it will be the largest roster that also included trophies, stadium and custom stages. Which I'll miss a lot, but it's not really something I'll go back to a past game for.

Smash Tour IMO is very underrated. I had a blast getting the challenges required, and even after. The intentions were there, but the balance for some of the random items you get are unbalanced.. It has a great concept though. Start with a fighter, then take other peoples fighters or get one of your own via landing certain spaces, and then face off in the end. I really hope it does come back as DLC tbqh. Just needs to be adjusted a little... And having online smash tour would be fantastic!

 

[lucasla]

Smash Tour IMO is very underrated. I had a blast getting the challenges required, and even after. The intentions were there, but the balance for some of the random items you get are unbalanced.. It has a great concept though. Start with a fighter, then take other peoples fighters or get one of your own via landing certain spaces, and then face off in the end. I really hope it does come back as DLC tbqh. Just needs to be adjusted a little... And having online smash tour would be fantastic!

IMO it was just too random, the interface was too annoying, the gameplay too confusing, and there was no reason at all to keep playing this mode.

Also, it was never a good party mode. My friends that doesnt have the game would never care enough about this mode with all the details it has and all things happening so fast at the same time to have any fun playing this mode.

The board takes too much time and is too confusing and the real matches are about 1 minute each, so.. why play this? I dont see any reason.

 

[godogod]

IMO it was just too random, the interface was too annoying, the gameplay too confusing, and there was no reason at all to keep playing this mode.

Also, it was never a good party mode. My friends that doesnt have the game would never care enough about this mode with all the details it has and all things happening so fast at the same time to have any fun playing this mode.

The board takes too much time and is too confusing and the real matches are about 1 minute each, so.. why play this? I dont see any reason.

There was nothing really confusing about it, nor was it too long(you have control over turns), if you played it more than once. It's a pretty straight forward game, but there is a lot of randomness in terms of items and themes for battles. That's it. And what's broken, can be fixed.

 

[Kugelhagelfisch]

Not forgotten but it will be dead the moment Ultimate comes out. Not because it's a super terrible game but because even those that like it WANT it to die.
Maybe it would be a bit different if the whole Bayo situation was handled better but since then I feel like there's little love lost for the game.
But even if that wasn't the case, everyone who is planning to play Ultimate, which is very likely going to include everyone that loved 4, wants U to be a success. We want to have a new meta, new options, new stages and a scene that is alive.

Most actually forgotten I'd say is 64. It's barely talked about, less and less people played it as a child and it's the hardest to pick up because it's on an old system with a terrible controller.

 

[KingOfKazoos]

As much as I enjoyed Smash 4... yeah Ultimate is just looking like Smash 4 but better in every way.

It's mainly down to the Wii U failing, the Switch on the other hand is just so much better so it's 100% going to be the most forgettable. The only memorable thing I think will be Bayonetta being busted.

 

[SmashBro99]

64 was the original
Melee is the broken super tryhard one
Brawl had SSE

Yes. Smash Tour was not horrible at all, I enjoyed it with friends a bunch of times, but it's not enough to be remembered by, and as people have said, Ultimate just looks like a much better Smash4 with more content.

 

[Dan]

Most actually forgotten I'd say is 64. It's barely talked about, less and less people played it as a child and it's the hardest to pick up because it's on an old system with a terrible controller.

Yeah, I was watching TheBitBlock talk about the future of Smash yesterday and wasn't even sure if he knows Smash 64 exists, and big channels like Etika who care about nothing but Smash never talk about or play it. Brawl has SSE, but time will probably "forget" it as well, though it'll take longer.

But with the similarities to Ultimate, I think Smash 4 is the only game in danger (in like 20 years) of people being like "oh yeah; I forgot that existed". So it's not a knock on Smash 4 so much as that Smash 64 and Melee (for example) look like night and day, while 4 and Ultimate are very similar aesthetically.

 

[Bayopuff]

Yes, simply because everything it does, Ultimate does better. There's nothing really special about it, as much as I love the game.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Super Smash Bros. Melee's lifespan is insane, having been played competitively for nearly TWO decades now. That game isn't going to go anywhere.
Super Smash Bros. 64 and Brawl are played every now and then competitively, but more so as "spectacles of ancient history" (AKA nostalgia). It's fun to watch 64's Combo Contests and matches with Isai, and the Brawl TASs (and some matches with Snake and Metaknight) are cool to watch as well.

Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS... is probably gonna feel weird to look at once Ultimate comes out. When I get "in the zone" in other Smash games, I feel really good doing it because the combos and reads I manage to get feel good and look cool. In Smash 4's case, the adrenaline is... stuffed, I guess. Edge-guarding being weakened, air dodges feeling laggy, the sound effects, and the overall art style just didn't sit right with me. There's that adrenaline once you get a lead on someone, but considering For Glory and competitive matches use 2 stocks, it wouldn't last very long, especially if the other opponent took a stock off of me. This paragraph probably feels weird to read, but that's the point: that's how I feel about Sm4sh in its entirety.

Every Smash game has something unique going for them, so I don't think any of them will be forgotten, especially Sm4sh. However, Sm4sh will probably be put in the "Let's never go back to this" category for many players, including myself. Maybe once every few years, we'll laugh at how broken Bayonetta was or look at vanilla Smash 3ds to reminisce about "Vectoring" and how broken Peach, Link, Tink, and Wario were. TASs of Sm4sh would be cool I guess, though I feel they wouldn't reach the levels of absurdity that Melee and Brawl TASs did.