Is melee the most technical game?

[EpixAura]

Smashboards

I met this guy at a melee tournament a few weeks back who blew my mind when I watched him get on this forum. I can not even begin to describe how good this kid was mostly because I didn't fully understand what he was doing, it was like watching melee for the first time.

His hands moved way faster then any melee player I have ever seen play. This guy told me he was able to pick wave shining instantly because of his experience with copying and pasting the same joke over and over. He claimed to be the #1 funniest guy on the forum which I absolutely believed after watching him. He explained that much like melee the tech skill is very involved and you need to be able to think and not just be good and pressing buttons. It made me want to start visiting it.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

QWOP or bust.

 

[EpixAura]

QWOP or bust.

Awwww... I was about to do staring contests.

Anyway, back on topic. I believe Melee is competitive enough. There probably are several things more competitive than it, but not too many things. Besides, we're still seeing improvement in our top players (mostly), so Melee is definitely very technical. Has someone posted a link to Perfect Dark, the combo video yet? I don't feel like it, and it's probably already been done, but yeah.

 

[Pengie]

Pokemon

I met this guy at a melee tournament a few weeks back who blew my mind when I watched him play this game. I can not even begin to describe how good this kid was mostly because I didn't fully understand what he was doing, it was like watching melee for the first time.

His hands moved way faster then any melee player I have ever seen play. This guy told me he was able to pick wave shining instantly because of his experience with RNG abuse. He claimed to be #2 on the Smogon Shoddybattle server which I absolutely believed after watching him. He explained that much like melee the tech skill is very involved and you need to be able to think and not just be good and pressing buttons. It made me want to start playing it.

Fail because RNG has nothing to do with playing on Shoddy (lol is anyone still using that?) =p

 

[R00R]

as far as thug lol i supposed the longer your score racks up the more technical prowless you have to have so eh it also depends on the stage

didnt even notice this

Yeah I saw proskater go a good 45 min without landing.

 

[hubble]

You guys sleeping on Quake?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkDjsBiO58

The top level guys are unbelievable.

 

[K Balls]

fighting game wise I would say virtua fighter and probably guilty gear are really technical. Melee isn't the most technical at all, but of course people have their own opinions on things.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Wtf @ this meme...

 

[Ghostbone]

Muscle March

I met this guy at a melee tournament a few weeks back who blew my mind when I watched him play this game. I can not even begin to describe how good this kid was mostly because I didn't fully understand what he was doing, it was like watching melee for the first time.

His hands moved way faster then any melee player I have ever seen play. This guy told me he was able to pick wave shining instantly because of his experience with Muscle March. He claimed to be #2 in world which I absolutely believed after watching him. He explained that much like melee the tech skill is very involved and you need to be able to think and not just be good and pressing buttons. It made me want to start playing it.

 

[felipe_9595]

Lol snaking in MK:DS isn't even hard.

Just keep your thumb pressed down in the center of the D-Pad, and shift it left and right.

Oh man, MK:Ds destroyed my ds, my r and l doesnt work, and lef and right button are almost non working. The only thing i play now Is ouendan, cus my up screen is broken too Dx

 

[R00R]

Marklar

I met this Marklar at a Marklar Marklar a few Marklars back who blew my Marklar when I watched Marklar play this Marklar. Marklar can not even begin to describe how good this Marklar was mostly because Marklar didn't fully understand what Marklar was doing, it was like watching Marklar for the first time.

His Marklar moved way faster then any Marklar Marklar Marklar have ever seen play. ThisMarklar told me he was able to pick Marklar Marklar instantly because of his experience with Marklar Marklar. Marklar claimed to be #2 in Marklar which Marklar absolutely believed after watching Marklar. Marklar explained that much like Marklar the Marklar Marklar is very involved and you need to be able to Marklar and not just be good and pressing Marklar. Marklar made Marklar want to start playing Marklar.

 

[Biglard]

You guys sleeping on Quake?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkDjsBiO58

The top level guys are unbelievable.

I couldn't say if that was technical, but this video was very interesting anyway. Thanks!

 

[rpgfighter]

Melee is up there in certain qualities but I feel like its not THE most technical.

I feel like 3s, CVS2, and GG are more technical games. Imo.

 

[ETWIST51294]

3S and CvS2 are not even close. They're slow paced (esp. CvS2) and aren't very technical. CvS2 wouldn't be technical at all without RCs and A groove comboes. I don't know where people get 3S from.

 

[EpixAura]

Fail because RNG has nothing to do with playing on Shoddy (lol is anyone still using that?) =p

I never claimed they were related. Most people use SB to test out a team, and if they are testing a team, then they intend to make that team. How do you get Pokemon with the right stats for the team? RNG abuse. I just used SB because it actually has a ranking system.

Anyway, I'm not well versed when in comes to other competitive fighters, but of course there are probably a few more technical games, but not by much. Until people can do shinedrill infinites and the like with ease, it it doesn't really need to be any more technical.

 

[The Star King]

I never claimed they were related. Most people use SB to test out a team, and if they are testing a team, then they intend to make that team. How do you get Pokemon with the right stats for the team? RNG abuse. I just used SB because it actually has a ranking system.

No, Pokemon simulators are the PRIMARY form of competitive battling. Yes, you can use it to test teams you plan on making in the real game, but most people don't do that; in fact, most people kind of look down on "Wifi-ers". Most of the best players ONLY play on simulators.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Drill shine infinites? First of all, the fact is it isn't an infinite since you can SDI out of the drill, second is that drill shines aren't hard. lol

 

[Pengie]

For real, I think most people can do drill shines against a wall without even having the TV on.

 

[Jonas]

When people say Melee is technical, they're mostly thinking of the Star Fox characters, right?

 

[tera twin]

When people say Melee is technical, they're mostly thinking of the Star Fox characters, right?

Well, for me it's everything. But yeah, in my opinion, I think Fox and Falco are one of the most technical skill demanding characters out there. However, I wouldn't say Melee is "technical" just because of Fox and Falco.

 

[Kanelol]

Highest technical skill cap: Melee/SC2

Highet technical skill required to play at a competitive level: I dunno

 

[rpgfighter]

3S and CvS2 are not even close. They're slow paced (esp. CvS2) and aren't very technical. CvS2 wouldn't be technical at all without RCs and A groove comboes. I don't know where people get 3S from.

Speed is not what makes a game technical I feel.

In terms of adapting to what the player is doing, how to counter, spacing and understanding the engine. I feel like these qualities are harder to achieve in 3s/CVS2.

Melee overdoes them in speed and tactics you have to learn. Obviously neither game has something like WDing and L cancels and stuff.

Thats just how I feel about it. All 3 games take a lot of skill though and aren't easy.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Speed is not what makes a game technical I feel.

In terms of adapting to what the player is doing, how to counter, spacing and understanding the engine. I feel like these qualities are harder to achieve in 3s/CVS2.

Melee overdoes them in speed and tactics you have to learn. Obviously neither game has something like WDing and L cancels and stuff.

Thats just how I feel about it. All 3 games take a lot of skill though and aren't easy.

But the thread title is the most technical game, not the hardest mentally.

 

[EpixAura]

No, Pokemon simulators are the PRIMARY form of competitive battling. Yes, you can use it to test teams you plan on making in the real game, but most people don't do that; in fact, most people kind of look down on "Wifi-ers". Most of the best players ONLY play on simulators.

SB is, from my experience, used primarily for testing teams. While there are a lot of non-Wifi players who use Shoddy, but that's largely just because it's Smogon's method of choice. Most use other simulators or methods for competitive battling.

Back to Melee (kind of): All this talking about technical gaming makes me think of what other games would be like if you could cancel or buffer certain actions. Think canceling a dolphin-dive to shoot so that you fly forward firing and land on your feet instantly in CoD. Or picking a move in Pokemon and inputting commands at the right time to pick a different move, resulting the the damage of the first move with the type of the second move. Would be so funny.

 

[linkoninja]

True camping with Link doesn't require much button inputs besides SHFFL which after a while becomes 2nd nature

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

I'm not too versatile with competitive fighters but I'm pretty sure Melee has the most mindgames. Chain-grabbing, tech chases, and even just tricking people to DI a certain way in general. Low tiers rely on mindgames too, though low tier characters are usually not as technical.

 

[Mooo]

SB isn't used that much anymore since like late September 2010, but look at Pokemon-Online. There are like 1000 people logged in 24/7 and there are a huge number of registered accounts, the best battlers i know don't even own the latest Pokemon games, some don't have a DS. The only competitive Pokemon battlers that are serious about DS's and such are those who play VGC format, because they need to breed their Pokemons and all, the best battlers are just in simulaters really.
I mean look at it, playing on a simulator takes about 10 minutes if both players play stall (which at the time isn't common at all) per match, that's about 9 times faster than Wifi. Pokemon is after all a game that is based on experience for the most part, as you get metagame knowledge through battling, so more games equal better results, which is why simulators are the competitive method of choice.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I'm not too versatile with competitive fighters but I'm pretty sure Melee has the most mindgames. Chain-grabbing, tech chases, and even just tricking people to DI a certain way in general. Low tiers rely on mindgames too, though low tier characters are usually not as technical.

No, just no. Don't be ignorant. I really get irritated when people do this (fg players do it to smash too so it ain't just smash players). "I don't know **** about these games but I'm pretty sure mine has more mindgames". What?

 

[Citizen Snips]

gunz, starcraft 1, mvc2

my un-biased opinion meele is probably at the top tech wise.

I wouldn't say Gunz is more technical than Melee. Sure, you've got stuff like butterfly and sword gliding, but it's nowhere near the technical content of Melee.

 

[Jonas]

No, just no. Don't be ignorant. I really get irritated when people do this (fg players do it to smash too so it ain't just smash players). "I don't know **** about these games but I'm pretty sure mine has more mindgames". What?

Word. Sometimes it's kind of painful to watch smashers talk about other fighting games

 

[Walt]

I'm not too versatile with competitive fighters but I'm pretty sure Melee has the most mindgames. Chain-grabbing, tech chases, and even just tricking people to DI a certain way in general. Low tiers rely on mindgames too, though low tier characters are usually not as technical.

gonna get on the "this guy doesn't know what the hell he is talking about" train

 

[SSBM_or_GTFO]

There needs to be a way to measure technicality to same what game is the most technical. Comparing APM is one way but APM is inconsistent between characters and speed of a game.

 

[Jonas]

Some minigames in Mario Party have mad high APM required to play at high level, but they're not technical, let alone deep.

 

[Mooo]

did anyone mention guitar hero/rock band yet? it needs very fast and precise inputs.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Guitar hero is straight muscle memory. Theres no reaction to it at all. I guess you can say it is though.

 

[Mooo]

expand my statement to sightreading a gh/rb chart then, because that takes mad fast reaction.
otherwise i agree, you really only learn the patterns in gh, but that doesn't change the precise and fast movements your finger have to make, hence, techskill

 

[link2702]

Some minigames in Mario Party have mad high APM required to play at high level, but they're not technical, let alone deep.

dear god don't tell me people actually play mario party at a "competitive/high" level....X_X

 

[The Real Gamer]

dear god don't tell me people actually play mario party at a "competitive/high" level....X_X

I'm hosting a Mario Party 29 tournament this weekend. You want in?

 

[ETWIST51294]

I'm hosting a Mario Party 29 tournament this weekend. You want in?

**** yeah yo! My mom'll be my teammate.

 

[Jonas]

dear god don't tell me people actually play mario party at a "competitive/high" level....X_X

1. Yeah they do. Certainly not as seriously as Smash, but they do.

2. That's not really what I meant. I just meant that in some of the button mashing minigames, you have to press a button around 16 times every second to get the maximum score (16 actions pr second = 16*60 APM = 960 APM. Take that, Star Craft suckers!!!).

Anyway the point was that high APM required does not automatically make a game technical. There are other factors, so the APM measurement is pretty useless.