Is it time to talk about the stage list??

[Bing]

It's called Rainbow Ride in PAL, you flopmerican... and flopnadian (?)...

Sorry, I'm not very good at this.

Flopnadian sounds like a bad Grenade or something...

I was just saying. I think Rainbow Ride is better than Cruise...


Also I couldnt be bothered to go back and quote this.

But Onett can stay seated on the bench...****ty stage is ****ty.

 

[Kal]

Ban everything but Onett and Mushroom Kingdom II

Awesome suggestion is awesome.

 

[Cummings]

I feel like threads like these are examples of why us normals should be able to lurk in the backroom anonymously but not post.

 

[Deleted member]

A few questions to start:

1. Do you feel the stage list is balanced. Do you believe "balance" to be a relative term to your preconceived notions of the represented word and etcetera??

2. Do you feel the addition of any stage (i.e. Onett) would benefit the tournament structure??

3. Do you think the removal of any stages (DL64 specifically) would be beneficial??

4. Do you believe, as I do, that BF is the best stage??

5. If not, why? What is your preferred stage and why??

If this gains any sort of momentum I suppose more questions will arise on their own.

1. The stage list currently works AGAINST fox/falco, and they're still amazingly potent as characters. It works against fox more than falco.

2. I would like to see Mushroom Kingdom II added to the counterpick list. It is alarmingly even for most viable characters, and instead encourages counterpicking with a macro strategy more than a character-specific approach.

3. I think Final Destination should be moved to counterpick or BANNED.

4. I believe that Fountain of Dreams is the best stage. By itself.

5. FoD preserves defensive/offensive options alike and I can't see any truly exploitable approach to the stage. I have no intention of revealing what these strategies are or why they work on other stages, but for the MOST part they don't work on FoD.

If you want to discuss this more in private, that is fine so long as it stays between us.

 

[Warhawk]

BF is so biased. You have to keep large stages to keep some characters viable. Also don't let falco mains convince you BF is the "best" stage.

Why are the Falco mains convincing people that Battlefield is the best stage? It hurts his recovery options a bit it seems. I know a lot of Falcons seem to want only Battlefield to be played because it would help them a good deal against spacies for that reason. In most matchups I think Yoshi's Story and maybe Dreamland also is better for Falco than Battlefield is. Not that Battlefield is bad for Falco (what stage is honestly) just that in comparison to other stages it doesn't seem especially great for him.

 

[Popopidopop]

OPs didnt read the randomnoobsbequiet part of the opening.

 

[Hax]

battlefield only

battlefield DL64 FD at most

 

[ShroudedOne]

I will never play on FoD only. Ugh. That sounds terrible. I'll have to ask you why you think it's so good later, Umbreon.

(though I guess I sort of see why)

 

[It's me Q]

Battlefields good but I like FD for being like a neutral canvas to prove skill. Think it would be interesting if FD had a battlefield height (a little lower probably) platform in the middle to perfect it.

Agree with Hax though (2nd suggestion). Although sad not to have Yoshis in there because of how fun I find it as a stage.

 

[odinNJ]

Why are the Falco mains convincing people that Battlefield is the best stage? It hurts his recovery options a bit it seems. I know a lot of Falcons seem to want only Battlefield to be played because it would help them a good deal against spacies for that reason. In most matchups I think Yoshi's Story and maybe Dreamland also is better for Falco than Battlefield is. Not that Battlefield is bad for Falco (what stage is honestly) just that in comparison to other stages it doesn't seem especially great for him.

I was thinking YS when I wrote this. If you switch out the letters bf with ys you get what I meant. Heck I'll go fix it

 

[Deleted member]

I will never play on FoD only. Ugh. That sounds terrible. I'll have to ask you why you think it's so good later, Umbreon.

(though I guess I sort of see why)

contrary to what the captain falcon players will tell you, smash is more than just shuffl aerials sometimes.

 

[ShroudedOne]

What....? You're kidding. This is news to me.

Also, when FD gives Peach an auto-win MU vs Falco, I don't see how it's a "neutral canvas to prove skill," Q.

 

[odinNJ]

Hes probs one of those guys who thinks that FD is fair because theres no platforms or something, the old "all fox final destination" joke.

 

[1048576]

Great Bay for teams

 

[odinNJ]

^^lol @ throw spikes/ super camping

 

[Blu]

We all talk too much.

 

[mhenlo]

not sure if it will help, but this is the stage list my small playgroup uses

Neutrals
Battlefield
Fountain
Dream Land
Yoshi's
Final
Stadium

Counter Picks
Brinstar
Rainbow Cruise
Mute City
Jungle Japes
Kongo Jungle
Corneria

with 1 ban for Neutrals and 2 Bans for CPs its kinda complicated and takes a while for bans sometimes but we got used to it so it doesn't take too long.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

1. The stage list currently works AGAINST fox/falco, and they're still amazingly potent as characters. It works against fox more than falco.

2. I would like to see Mushroom Kingdom II added to the counterpick list. It is alarmingly even for most viable characters, and instead encourages counterpicking with a macro strategy more than a character-specific approach.

3. I think Final Destination should be moved to counterpick or BANNED.

4. I believe that Fountain of Dreams is the best stage. By itself.

5. FoD preserves defensive/offensive options alike and I can't see any truly exploitable approach to the stage. I have no intention of revealing what these strategies are or why they work on other stages, but for the MOST part they don't work on FoD.

If you want to discuss this more in private, that is fine so long as it stays between us.

I didnt read the whole thread but is this a joke? The current stage list is very much pro space animal. The only counter pick left is one of their best stages, yoshi's is great for them and all but fd is at least neutral for them and imo tney r not bad on fd ether (they just get comboed a little harder there). There r no pro floaty stages left so i dont see a argument for the stage list being anti spacy at all

There is no reason fd should be banned. Just b/c it has no platforms b/c thats a terrible reason to ban or make a stage a counter pick.

Iirc mushroom 2 is the one with birdo right? If so it has walk offs and promotes camping.

Lastly i also like FoD, its a under used stage and i dont get why people complain about it. So i agree with u here

 

[Deleted member]

I didnt read the whole thread but is this a joke? The current stage list is very much pro space animal. The only counter pick left is one of their best stages, yoshi's is great for them and all but fd is at least neutral for them and imo tney r not bad on fd ether (they just get comboed a little harder there). There r no pro floaty stages left so i dont see a argument for the stage list being anti spacy at all

There is no reason fd should be banned. Just b/c it has no platforms b/c thats a terrible reason to ban or make a stage a counter pick.

Iirc mushroom 2 is the one with birdo right? If so it has walk offs and promotes camping.

Lastly i also like FoD, its a under used stage and i dont get why people complain about it. So i agree with u here

Spacies are actually broken on stupid stages, in our stage list they're only the best but still within reason.

FD changes MUs a lot more than the CPs we most recently removed do except maybe KJ64 is worse. FD is definitely worse than like Brinstar though in terms of changing how a MU is played.

@ MK2: you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

There is a difference between a stage list working against the spacies and a stage list being not a good as others for them

Fd is fine, my main issue with arguments against fd is that i feel people r only complaining b/c its flat with no platforms so its different then all of the triangle platform stages. I honeslty believe that if roles were reversed and all the legal stages besides 1 was like fd, and the 1 different one was a triangle platform stage people would be saying its unfair and should be banned or a cp.

Am i wrong about which 1 i think mk2 is? Or r u saying i dont know anything about the stage.

Laslty i believe a pro floaty stage should be brought back or ps should be banned since its so pro spacies and two of the transformations r far more unbalanced then many of the banned stages

 

[Kink-Link5]

Onett is legit the best stage in the game.


For coin matches.

 

[SSBMLahti]

Let's remove more stages and make this game even more plain. If you're going to do anything, add more stages, don't remove.

/non active tourney noob with no opinion but still

 

[JPOBS]

5. FoD preserves defensive/offensive options alike and I can't see any truly exploitable approach to the stage. I have no intention of revealing what these strategies are or why they work on other stages, but for the MOST part they don't work on FoD.

If you want to discuss this more in private, that is fine so long as it stays between us.

Why the need for secrecy? I'm very interesting in hearing what you have to say about FoD.

 

[Deleted member]

Why the need for secrecy?

No need, I just don't like the majority of smashers.

 

[Pink Reaper]

There is a difference between a stage list working against the spacies and a stage list being not a good as others for them

Fd is fine, my main issue with arguments against fd is that i feel people r only complaining b/c its flat with no platforms so its different then all of the triangle platform stages. I honeslty believe that if roles were reversed and all the legal stages besides 1 was like fd, and the 1 different one was a triangle platform stage people would be saying its unfair and should be banned or a cp.

Am i wrong about which 1 i think mk2 is? Or r u saying i dont know anything about the stage.

Laslty i believe a pro floaty stage should be brought back or ps should be banned since its so pro spacies and two of the transformations r far more unbalanced then many of the banned stages

I have this really well thought out explanation for why FD is the most neutral stage but I never post it because people are stupid. PM me, it seems like something you would appreciate.

 

[Kal]

I'm noting a trend in which members of the secret backroom have secret ideas they want to keep secret. Why not just... tell them to people? Surely disliking people or people being stupid won't negatively impact merely stating these ideas.

 

[Strong Badam]

Jungle Japes is the best stage in the game.

 

[kalamazhu]

lol the stage list is neutral enough don't ban anything its fine

 

[Svetsunov]

Ban everything except Temple and Mushroom Kingdom II

 

[Construct]

I'm noting a trend in which members of the secret backroom have secret ideas they want to keep secret. Why not just... tell them to people? Surely disliking people or people being stupid won't negatively impact merely stating these ideas.

They're too cool and edgy for our simple minds to understand.

 

[Brookman]

If I were a mod I would be infracting so many posts right now *fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap*

/gets infracted.



But seriously, some people would do well to READ the OP

 

[$mike]

*points to Umbreon's post(s)*

 

[KishPrime]

1. Balance is a relatively minor concern. The tier list has continually shifted over the years. Catering a ruleset to balance would mean you're always playing catchup.

2. I don't really think the number of stages affects tournament structure, but I'm not sure what that means.

3. No.

4. No.

5. The concept of a "best stage" has no meaning to me without further description as to what you mean by it. Every stage is unique in its contributions to the game of Melee, and every stage defines every matchup in a unique and interesting way.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I'm noting a trend in which members of the secret backroom have secret ideas they want to keep secret. Why not just... tell them to people? Surely disliking people or people being stupid won't negatively impact merely stating these ideas.

Im not really keeping it a secret. I'll tell anyone that wants to know, i just dont like dealing with the inevitable really dumb arguments that come up after it. People dont read my post they just see "FD is the most neutral" then go off on some crazy tangent about completely unrelated things to prove me wrong.

But yeah FD is the most neutral.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Personally, I think FD and Battlefield are pretty neutral, and are both great for various different MUs. That's just me.

 

[Wizzrobe]

I think the current stagelist is perfect.

 

[Hax]

FD is either the 2nd best stage in the game to battlefield, or not a neutral at all

depends on matchup

 

[odinNJ]

I agree with hax, in some matrhcups FD is nowhere near fair, but in some its pretty good.

 

[lordvaati]

ATTENTION:: COMPETITIVE + TOURNAMENT PLAYERS OF ANY REGION


I'm looking for the input of active tournament players.

Randoms, I can't control you but you probably don't have a valid opinion and would be polite to keep it to yourselves :]

<3 jesus.



I want to drive a discussion here about the stage list and stage selection and its impact on what some people call "metagame".

A few questions to start:

1. Do you feel the stage list is balanced. Do you believe "balance" to be a relative term to your preconceived notions of the represented word and etcetera??

2. Do you feel the addition of any stage (i.e. Onett) would benefit the tournament structure??

3. Do you think the removal of any stages (DL64 specifically) would be beneficial??

4. Do you believe, as I do, that BF is the best stage??

5. If not, why? What is your preferred stage and why??

If this gains any sort of momentum I suppose more questions will arise on their own.

1.well, the Neutrals as a whole I feel are ideal(that's their job, right?) though Ican understand the FD issues some have. in my heart and mind, the Neutral stage is defined as the areas where a majority of the cast can fight on the stage with no major drawbacks(not factoring in character matchups.)

2. I feel they should bring back most of the counterpicks that were banned. in my mind, a counter pick is a stage that gives an advantage over a certain character class, but not to the extremes where it's impossible to win for the other. Brinstar for example would be like this to me, whereas a stage like Termina isn't.

3. at least not from neutrals. I do think that with only 1 major CP now, they should just cut CPs altogether, or bring back some more of them.

4.I feel BF is one of but not the most balanced(though i may just be biased against the "dead zone" beneath the ledge).the most to me is...

5....Ok, i'm probably the minority, but Yoshi's Story. the way it's designed seems to work for pretty much everyone-walljumpers, floaties, fastfallers, Marth, cap, Bowser, and so on-and the stage chaos is controlled even. some complain about Randall, but as it follows a pattern, and has a maintained effect on fights(moreso then Arwings on Corneria), it seems just right to me. I mean heck even when items are on, all it does really drop on the stage is food. by my definition,it seems like the Ideal neutral to me.

 

[JPOBS]

Im not really keeping it a secret. I'll tell anyone that wants to know, i just dont like dealing with the inevitable really dumb arguments that come up after it. People dont read my post they just see "FD is the most neutral" then go off on some crazy tangent about completely unrelated things to prove me wrong.

But yeah FD is the most neutral.

Just post it. Some people will read it, and good discussion will come from it from valuable members of the community. Others will read it and start a ****storm. Just ignore the latter.