Is he worth using to win?

[Cort]

Uh.. yeah. I'm not gonna bother with this thread anymore.

 

[SpeedAcE]

I've seen an insurmountable truckload of people claim Falco isn't top tier. It seems as if the majority claim that he deserves to be lower.

if this is the case, what is the deal with his current placement?

 

[IShotLazer]

if you win with him he is worth using to win. otherwise.... FIND A NEW GOD! .... character

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

falco has the best camping because he can neutralize dashdancing and platform camping.

falco's matches

he beats fox. fox has to upthrow to combo falco, and it's extremely risky for him to not get shined in doing so. also, 1 grab isn't going to kill falco, so the process has to be repeated.

he beats peach. badly. don't tell me falco loses to peach, peach has incredibly ****ty mobility, and falco has lasers, dair, and bair, and she can't deal with any of the 3. You can't lose to a character that can't hit you.

he beats sheik. handily.

he doesn't beat marth, at best it's stage dependant. Again, marth has no way to deal with lasers, but no one else does either really. marth can gimp him back hard for it.

falco vs marth in terms of combos is debatable, I won't argue that. He still has better combos than fox peach sheik falcon. Not to say they are bad at it, falco is just better.

falco is 1-2 frames slower than fox, his lasers cover for his run speed. His range is = to marths and sheiks and he can beat both of them in priority fairly often. Check AR for the range.



negatory. how do you punish a 1 frame invincible move that can be canceled faster than your opponent can counter-attack? This is why people hate shine in the first place, it can't be punished. That's why you do a shine after the dair, so you don't get punished.

All the top tiers get combod about equally.

Falco is just as good as the other top tiers if not better. Some character and stage combinations, the other character simply has no way to beat falco at all if he's played correctly. Like, the character can literally do nothing vs a simple strategy.

Falco has the best projectile lead-ins to either the win move (dair) or the unpunishable shine for his combos, all of which do minimally 60%. He can also out-camp everyone on neutral stages. He is definitely top tier.

Peach ***** Falco.

This Peach player Light in AZ can fairly easily beat Forward's Falco. (or so he tells me)

I believe him. When Forward had to play him, he used Fox instead of Sheik or Falco.

 

[Mogwai]

Peach ***** Falco.

This Peach player Light in AZ can fairly easily beat Forward's Falco. (or so he tells me)

I believe him. When Forward had to play him, he used Fox instead of Sheik or Falco.

The matchup's even (at best) for peach. Some Falcos feel comfortable with it, some don't, but if you know how to play it, it's fine. Fox and Sheik are both better vs. Peach but that doesn't prove it sucks for Falco.

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

The matchup's even (at best) for peach. Some Falcos feel comfortable with it, some don't, but if you know how to play it, it's fine. Fox and Sheik are both better vs. Peach but that doesn't prove it sucks for Falco.

Yeah, I reworded my post to make my point clearer.

 

[takieddine]

I think i'll agree with umbreon mow. Falco's lasers just kill peach.

I used to think otherwise because of her float, but a good camping Falco will beat that easily with double jump lasers. Peach has little to no mobility, and cant out camp Falco. not only that Falco can combo the crap out of her.

 

[Mogwai]

not only that Falco can combo the crap out of her.

This fact seems to be little-known. Peach's 2nd jump sucks (it's way too slow), so Falco is incredible at comboing her into fsmash/dsmash.

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

With that in mind, does Falco still deserve his second place top tier ranking?

Falco is top tier for the same reason marth used to be top tier. When falco was put in his position you have to understand a load of good falco payers were coming out and it seemed like every pro played falco... and nobody knew how to fight them... but that didnt last long. The thing about falco now is... you gotta know your stuff, and Im basically saying you can nolonger just rely on tech skill... smashers EVERYWHERE are getting smarter and smarter. (Except in OK, those guys dont think... joke) But yeh.

 

[mathos]

I think i'll agree with umbreon mow. Falco's lasers just kill peach.

I used to think otherwise because of her float, but a good camping Falco will beat that easily with double jump lasers. Peach has little to no mobility, and cant out camp Falco. not only that Falco can combo the crap out of her.

QFT .

 

[Cort]

QFT .

Remember that time I 4 stocked you in pools when you spent 95% of the time lasering?

 

[KevinM]

Remember that time I 4 stocked you in pools when you spent 95% of the time lasering?

Flawless Victory

 

[g-regulate]

rofl @ "is falco worth using to win". sorry to spam but that thread title made me laugh out loud.

 

[mathos]

Remember that time I 4 stocked you in pools when you spent 95% of the time lasering?

Getouttamyface. You're too old to play this game.

 

[S2]

Falco's spot is pretty debatable.

I don't think he deserves to be higher than Marth.

Where he places against Sheik is iffy. Since he is favored in matches vs. Sheik.


If you ask me, Fox/Marth are the best characters with Falco and Sheik very close behind. But the tier list has been open for debate for a while, so who knows. I doubt it'll change much at this point anyway, given that Brawl is going to be out in a few months.

 

[Cort]

I'm 19 years old.

Your profile says you're 22. I think YOU need to getoutta MAI face. =P

 

[mathos]

: (

 

[Cort]

>_>

..mathosssss =(

 

[Watty]

rofl i know what mathos said. and man it's too funny.
hahahaha

yeah he isn;t worth using to win. just use someone sweet like fox or marth.

this is BigR

 

[Drephen]

Cort and Tope should team to become the "Guys who look like they are over 30 and play video games" .....team

 

[Cort]

Cort and Tope should team to become the "Guys who look like they are over 30 and play video games" .....team

I just want to pinch your round little cheeks.

 

[Sliraobe God]

Wow, this thread is going from a heated tier war to a funny age-related war.
Anyways, I doubt I can argue for falco's position at top tier (which is IMO) at your level for not being as experienced of a smasher, but here goes.



Falco is the most pressuring character in all of melee, thanks to some character specific techniques like his lasers and easy-to-use pillar (compared to fox's/peach's/jabbing in general). Because of this, falco is definitely a viable matchup to any other top tier character.

Probably what I saw the most here was the fact that falco has poor recovery and can therefore be gimped easily. But why?
Every character can gimp kill in some way, whether it be fox's shinespikes, falco's lasers/dair, sheik's needles, marth's many edgeguarding options, and peach's turnips/dsmash.
Gimping an opponent starts with a combo, and falco can exceed in that respect. As Cort said, falco's recovery has some flexibility, and to overwhelm that recovery you have to also overwhelm his unpredictability, possible DI/SDI/edgetech, and on top of that combo him off the edge.

I may be biased as a falco main, but I really doubt that falco can be easily gimped. Every falco player must have some level of recovery, and coupled with his great space animal characteristics, falco can't be easily gimped. BTW, "easily gimped" is an oxymoron. It takes a ****load of skill to kill at nearly 0% against other professionals.


So, back to the actual topic If you can use falco like a pro, use him to win. If you, as a falco player, can HUMANELY utilize every resource available to you, you can match the **** of a frame-perfect opponent.
Besides, the smash community spent 5 years in melee to learn its metagame and argue over important topics. The tier wars are over, and melee is coming to a close in a month. Falco is a great player, face the facts. 'Nuff said (and thanks for reading my spiteful words too!).

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

If you can use falco like a pro

Yes I Can

^From Nutty Professor.

 

[knightpraetor]

my own conclusion: falco only deserves his position if you can shine to waveland consistently to continue comboes on platform stages..

and even then, you have to be spot on technically..when i look over the last few tournaments..i notice even the pros getting themselves killed by silly little mistakes at times..why would you pick a char that you may make one tiny finger slip and you end up getting gimped far easier than other characters..and then don't place as well as you normally would.

oh, and my other thought that i never understood, is why chu dat doesn't place higher in the tiers seriously, watching him i wonder how the tier list is as it stands;p

 

[Tee ay eye]

I always hear better players (like, ranked people) say that "Falco is no longer top tier" and that Falco is hard to use at a high level because of how easy he is to kill. Also, examples of this are PC and Forward quitting Falco to play Fox and Sheik, respectively.

Discuss?

Yes. I personally think Marth and Sheik deserve the spots so much more. Marth is probably the #1 most complained about character ever because he's just too good. His combos are good, he can **** with good spacing, and he has broken range and grabs. He's just overall a good character. His recovery also isn't nearly as easy to **** as Falco's. Sheik's recovery is also harder to gimp than Falco's.

Really, Falco is probably the easiest character to kill out of the top 5 characters. Falco is high tier.

I can't believe that there was a point in time where I thought this.

If I had a time machine, I'd go back 3 years and curbstomp myself.

(that's me)

 

[❀W.E.M.P.❀]

Your old name was so mean lol

And that is the extent of my ability to contribute to conversations.

 

[Dr Peepee]

That was some good reading....

Ahhh and a lot of them agreed with me more! Let's all go back to 07. =p

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Reading nearly the whole topic sure brings back the good memories and even the flashbacks. Sometimes I wish we could return back to those years.

 

[Deleted member]

definitely still thought falco was broken in 2007.

and 2005.

FML.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

falco's amazing!!

 

[Metal Reeper]

The S rank Tier is perfect IMO right now.

 

[Tee ay eye]

That was some good reading....

Ahhh and a lot of them agreed with me more! Let's all go back to 07. =p

10s

i should make a thread like this in the marth boards
maybe some savior among men will revolutionize marth then

Spoiler

**** it, i'll do it! :D

 

[Van.]

Its funny how the prevailing mood at the time influences discussions like this.

 

[TheGoat]

I can't believe that there was a point in time where I thought this.

If I had a time machine, I'd go back 3 years and curbstomp myself.

(that's me)

Explain what you mean and what you believe now please, I am curious. That's kinda what I think right now, about how marth is imba and stuff.




On this whole topic, I think falco is below fox and shiek, and slightly below marth.
Like has been mentioned, people have learned how to get past his lasers. That doesnt make them obsolete, but as the metagame gets further and further, falcos lasers are going to be crying harder and harder. Falco's recovery isn't bad. He just has terrible RANGE, which means he can get gimped. But look at all his options, see how often a falco will recover successfully in any given tournament match (not against M2K mind you). His recovery isn't the best but it's really not that terrible.

Falcos speed pisses me off. He runs as slowly as bowser, and his wavedash speed and dashdance are terrible. That along with his poor grab game put him below the other three.

 

[ViciousEnd]

I honestly think Falco and Fox are the two best characters. Not delving into Fox, but Falco has a lot that makes him broken. He is super hard to get in on and punish. His platform game is really good. His defensive options lead into his best combo move. His combos are insane and free flowing, and work on the entire cast when fully understood. He can CHOOSE when he can attack, and that alone is super important. He can also capitalize off his pressure so much harder than any other pressure character. Having a bad grab game is not as devastating to him when all his grabs can be used for positional advantage, and some combo anyways.

 

[KingClubber]

Why shouldn't Falco have the top spot? I mean everything he does in a match he has to work for, Falco doesn't have an easy kill game plans without sacrificing a stock.

Why has Falco meta game evolved so much? Because it had to!

Fox, shine = Death
Marth, Ken Combo = Death
Sheik, D-Tilt/F-Tilt combo to F-Air = Death
Jiggs, Wall of Pain = Death

Falco can't afford to make mistakes, and at the same time has to look for mistakes that others make just to slip in.

Fighting Falco and making a mistake = Death.

 

[~Tac~]

Well that is agreeable that he has to work for his kills. But the tier list still remains simply based on how people use the characters. Those characters you listed there remain where they are because they can keep up with each other, and not simply be obsolete after they have their moment of "I can **** your face with a certain move/combo." Example: Link's UpB on spacies. He's 'almost' worthless other than that. That's why he's where he is on the tier list.

Even though, tier lists don't exist in Melee.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Let's all go back to 07. =p

I'm in for it, so I can be unquestionably the best Falco in Europe again and get top2 at European tournaments =P

 

[Kason Birdman]

i use falco cause hes fun.

and I don't really know if marth is better than falco.. I mean.. its crossed my mind.. but I would say only fox and sheik are better.

 

[OverLord]

LOL just read this stuff Aldwyn wrote in 2007:


Quote:
Falco is somewhat comparable to Falcon imo. Great offense, bad defense and gimped easily, except that Falco is slightly better as far as defense goes, and he has lasers, so he's better than Falcon.

Aldwyn answered:
quoted for truth.



Gonna post it in the italian board, that made my day LOL