Is Fox strictly better than Sonic?

[yamas11]

From what I've seen, both characters are fast, both characters are very light, but Fox does more damage, has more knockback, has better aerials, has a projectile, a reflector, and he can recover just as well as Sonic.

So it seems from stats, Fox does the same thing as Sonic, but better.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Fox has more Priority, Range, Speed(in attacks), KO's better, Sonic does better in gimping, recovers slightly better(vertically)

 

[pepin]

sonic simply ain't cool or at least not as cool as fox

1.-fox attacks are quicker and more powerfull

2.- fox has less landing lag

3.- fox has more killing moves

4.- fox has a ranged attack

5.- fox has THE reflector

6.- fox is more macho than sonic

7.- sonic has 1 eye

8.- sonic is faster running

9.- fox's running attack is better

10.- fox has more combo ability

 

[A6M Zero]

Also, just to note, Fox sigs are WAY cooler than Sonic sigs.

 

[M@v]

Sonic is one of the worst characters in the game sadly. But of course, go make snake almost a god...

 

[Samuelson]

Well Sonic is doomed to be low tier while Fox is at least mid. I like Fox a lot more than Sonic, he just fits my play style more. When ever i use Sonic i feel like i am doing everything wrong...

 

[Umby]

Pepin, I don't know if you can really compare dash attacks. Sonic's dash attack is pretty beast.

 

[soul ark]

it's truly a mater of opinion not to mention how awkward that question is honestly.

sonic's running speed is good and he's great at being random and gimping

fox attack speed is high and is great at combos to almost all of the characters

but why would you even grace the boards with such an awful question

 

[Ace76]

From what I've seen, both characters are fast, both characters are very light, but Fox does more damage, has more knockback, has better aerials, has a projectile, a reflector, and he can recover just as well as Sonic.

So it seems from stats, Fox does the same thing as Sonic, but better.

Sonic isn't very light he's middle weight. Fox is the 4th lightest character in the game. Theres a pretty big gap between there weight. Fox is also a faster faller keeping him in a lot of chains for extended periods of time. Sonic is much faster then fox too. If you compare stats sonic is better. Now if we compare movesets thats a different story.

 

[§witch]

Just the fact that you asked this at the fox boards should give you your answer...

 

[Zenthewanderer]

-Cough- Sonic -Cough- > >

 

[aeghrur]

Lol, LET'S GO FOX? wait... wrong board...

 

[ShadowLink84]

Let us compare aerials.

Sonic's Uair>Fox's. before you rip my head off, the reason is that Sonic can lead into multiple Uairs, Fox's heavy weight doesn't allow it nor does the cool down time. not only that but sonic's has greater range and priority and doesn't need to sweetspot. Speed wise I am unsure I know Sonic's hitbox appears on frame 1 or 2.
Fox's should be around the same.

Sonic's Fair>Fox's fair= At lower percentages it can lead into itself and can lead to early kills off the sage. It can gimp and doesn't pop the enemy away. However Fox's has better priority and does more damage and can keep him in the air longer. However Sonic's is more versatile because he has many ways to lead into it that have better chances than Fox's.

Sonic Dair<Fox's Dair: not a debate at all.
Sonic's bair>fox's. it has less cooldown time even though it has more, can break KM's Fair when tipped. Fox's is faster and more powerful but the lag time is horrendous IMO. sonic can also lead into his Bairs more easily than Fox.

Fox's nair>Sonic's: more power, more priority, stays out almost as long. Its a sex kick. Whats not to like about it?

Aerially sonic is superior.

ground wise Fox is obviously superior. reflector,b lastoer, his smashes are better his attack speed is better.

Approach wise though Sonic easily beats out Fox. most of Fox's approaches are dedicated and he doesn't have many methods of approaching either.

however Fox can do what Sonic cannot do. he can lead into his kills easily and can kill much earlier. Dair~usmash is lovely. the attack speed of his kill moves also makes them much easier to land even if he cannot link them from another attack.

Sonic can punish more easily than fox, but fox makes up for this tha when he punishes, he punishes much harder.

Even though sonic may appear to have more than fox, what Fox has makes more of an impact than Sonic has (except for approach which is a necessity).

 

[718_ROOKI3]

Fox can destroy sonic easy. all these posts got points that make sense. im just saying. fox ***** sonic, i mean...its sonic...against FOX...what more can i say.

 

[MyNameIsRyan]

Fox>Sonic
In every way

 

[Veggi]

Well Sonic has some things going for him, like what was listed by ShadowLink (everywhere I see you, you're telling people Sonic isn't as bad as they think.)

I don't play Sonic so I can't give an opinion without it being biased, but Sonic has a faster dash speed and higher weight. (completely obvious)

 

[718_ROOKI3]

Fox got everything that takes away sonic's fighting tactics. Sonic is based off of alot of mindgames and baiting your opponents, Fox can never be baited because he got lasers so that stops sonic from baiting. Now what....now sonic doesn't have a choice but to go hand to hand with fox and fox got a way better inside game than sonic.

 

[§witch]

Umm, spindash approaches combo, The gayass trampoline, fox is better than sonic, but why is this thread nessecairy?

 

[Wrap It Up]

Sonic is one of the worst characters in the game sadly. But of course, go make snake almost a god...

Snake is a god. He is the ultimate warrior. Sonic is nothing without his shoes. The only problem I have is that they made snake such a heavyweight.
And Fox > Sonic. Explanation not needed.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

of course. fox is so better then sonic. he has speed but actually has power too.

 

[BEES]

Fox is a bit better. Do not underestimate Sonic though.

 

[§witch]

Seriously, 1 this is in the FOX BOARD, 2 it's sorta pointless, 3 doesn't make any difference to fox at all.

 

[Acex27]

Ah, but what if fox had sonic's shoes?
O.O

 

[yamas11]

Wow, is this how all Fox users are lol?

I didn't ask who would win in a Sonic vs. Fox match.

 

[Matador]

Wow, is this how all Fox users are lol?

I didn't ask who would win in a Sonic vs. Fox match.

I thought this would spark some sort of discussion as well. Not just a bunch of "Fox > Sonic lulz he has shoes" posts.

 

[§witch]

The "serious" discussion goes in the match-up thread. And no yamas, not all fox mains...

 

[hippiedude92]

IMO I think Fox takes more effort and skill to reach and ultilize his full potential. But I shouldn't be talking haven't fought a good Sonic or NEVER used Sonic in my life lol. It's too hard abandoning Fox ever since 64 days lol...

 

[Matador]

The "serious" discussion goes in the match-up thread. And no yamas, not all fox mains...

Not really....they discuss for a few pages till someone goes off-topic and everyone follows. I find discussion on specific characters more fruitful when done on either character's home board. Not only do we get opinions from most of the mains, but we get rebuttles from the opposing viewpoint quicker.

Plus...there's no point in arguing there; nothing gets done.

Edit: Hippiedude, play Tenki. He'll change your mind just like he did me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Let me make something clear here. Fox is a TERRIBLE character in Brawl.

I'm in every way anti-Sonic, but I'm not gonna lie to you when I say that Sonic is slightly better than Fox.

There are only a few things Fox is better at. On certain attacks he has more range/priority. He's significantly better at killing. And he has a reflector so he can deal with camping better. That's where everything in his favor ends.

He's worse at approaching because all of his approach options are a lot more predictable. He's worse at edgeguarding because his recovery is awful so he has an abysmally tiny zone at which he can safely edgeguard. As I said, his recovery is simply awful, while Sonic has pretty good recovery. Fox is a fastfaller which makes him easily comboed, but doesn't make any of his approaches less predictable and punishable, in fact it makes it harder for him to properly space aerials. He's also extremely lightweight, so he doesn't take kindly to hits nearly as well as Sonic. Fox also doesn't have any reliable means of camping to overcome his weaknesses since his Blaster is hard to hit with and easily punished.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Fox got everything that takes away sonic's fighting tactics. Sonic is based off of alot of mindgames and baiting your opponents, Fox can never be baited because he got lasers so that stops sonic from baiting. Now what....now sonic doesn't have a choice but to go hand to hand with fox and fox got a way better inside game than sonic.

WOMG LASERS!
you do know that Sonic's is so ridiculously quick he can bait a laser, rush in and grab you right?
the lasers are only so good frmo a long distance and even then the speed at whch Sonic gets up close means you won't get many shots in.
Hell if you SDl spincharge goes under the lasers and reuslts in you getting hit.
let alone the fact that unlike Fox very few of Sonic's approaches are predictable or committed so that means close up, he can still mindgame you.

Oh and lets not forget his grab game wihch is leagues better than Fox.


overall fox is better but in the matchup Sonic beats out Fox.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Fox will most likely be at least lower Mid Tier, whereas Sonic will only get to higher-Low tier. Fox has everything Sonic needs:

Stronger Attacks
Better Aerials
A Projectile
A Reflector

 

[ROOOOY!]

ITT : stupidity.

No one's even given any reasons as to why Fox is better. I know it's hard, because you don't like putting any justification into false claims, but seriously. Sonic's just the character everyone's better than automatically, amirite?
All Fox has over Sonic is :
Able to kill at a lower percentage
Attack speed in most cases.
A ****ty projectile, rivalling Luigi's in how much it makes me cry with laughter.
And a reflector, which is just about the only thing stopping Fox being awful.

Pretty much everything else goes Sonic's way.

Believe me, I'm using Fox increasingly often lately and the more I play the more the revalation strikes me that he's actually quite bad.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Fox will most likely be at least lower Mid Tier, whereas Sonic will only get to higher-Low tier. Fox has everything Sonic needs:

Stronger Attacks
Better Aerials
A Projectile
A Reflector

Projectile necessary?
Not really

yeah it helps but only if the projectile is good and Fox' s projectile is average.
Look at MK.
Better aerials?
No.
The only thing that Fox really has over Sonic is his Dair and Nair.

Sonic's Bair has more priority and much less cooldown time.
Sonic's Fair doesn't stay out as long and can be directly comboed into by several methods.
His Uair breaks as massive amount of high priority moves.
he also has much better aerial speed so he can land his aerials much more easily.

Reflector isn't necessary either since sonic can get by projectiles very easily via spinshot, spincharge, dash shield etc etc.

Its the fact that Fox can kill much more easily and can link into his kills and that his punishment is harsher than Sonic's so a mistake against ox is more likely to cost you a stock than when facing Sonic.


Sonic can approach. Fight aerially. Approach, edge guard, recovery, pressure and chase better than Fox can.

Fox has what matters most in this game, the ability to link into his kills so that he can make those risks and so the payoff is much bigger.

If you look at all the high tier characters (with the exception of Pit) they have various methods of linking into a kill move.

Sonic only has one.
spindash to bair. And that can be avoided too with good DI.

Stat wise Sonic beats out Fox, he beats out a good number of characters, but that issue with killing means that he just can't get the job done quickly enough to make all his hard work matter.

If i use Fox, I can Ko the opponent at around 110 %. Yeah if I screw up my approach I am definitely going to get punished. But hey does it matter? If I am successful I can KO my opponent early enough so that it equalizes.

With Sonic yeah I can avoid harsh punishment but even if my opponent is at 150% it means little if I have issues finishing the job.


****IT ROY BEAT ME THIS TIME! T_T

 

[§witch]

K, sonic mains, calm down, this is just a few closed minded people saying this. No need to make everyone tl;dr this. It's not that big a deal...

 

[Matador]

Its the fact that Fox can kill much more easily and can link into his kills and that his punishment is harsher than Sonic's so a mistake against ox is more likely to cost you a stock than when facing Sonic.

I thought Dair -> Usmash/Dsmash/Fsmash wasn't a true combo? If this wasn't what you were referring to, what links into KO moves for Fox?.

 

[ROOOOY!]

****IT ROY BEAT ME THIS TIME! T_T

YOU'RE TOO SLOW!
But you win the award for long essays. That's not my style. Most threads I come across in other character boards regarding Sonic make me need to take anti-depressants. They're so mis-informed it's not funny. For example, Pit boards have got part of their match-up analysis on their based on a COMPUTER playing as Sonic. I just throw a few valid points out there and mope because it's only going to be the same old 'ahahaha lol sonki has no ki11 movs or priarity lol' argument that most people haven't grown out of.
Oh yeah, Fox has got priority over Sonic. Big fucking deal lol. Everyone has. There are ways to work around it. Sonic has decent approach options, Fox's are fully commital and if you use them haphazardly you're ****ed.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I thought Dair -> Usmash/Dsmash/Fsmash wasn't a true combo? If this wasn't what you were referring to, what links into KO moves for Fox?.

At higher percentages the Dair has a good chance of causing the opponent to trip forcefully.

It multi hits so shields get eaten.
if you roll away you can possibly get hit by the Dair before invincibility frames appear.
if you spot dodge you can maybe avoid itt but probably get hit by Dsmash or Usmash.

Did i mention it can trip.

It is also the attack speed so that helps too.

@Roy: Meh I don't like giving short explanations since people love to poke holes at them. Debate habit.

@letter: its not just a few close minds, its like it spreads throughout very character board.

 

[Matador]

At higher percentages the Dair has a good chance of causing the opponent to trip forcefully.

It multi hits so shields get eaten.
if you roll away you can possibly get hit by the Dair before invincibility frames appear.
if you spot dodge you can maybe avoid itt but probably get hit by Dsmash or Usmash.

Did i mention it can trip.

It is also the attack speed so that helps too.

So not a true combo, but close enough to be a reliable KO option....I seriously want a pro Fox to change my opinion. I don't see why Fox should be middle tier over so many characters that seem to have so much more going for them.

 

[§witch]

Has had mad attack speed, he combos well, he kills very early (with a very fast attack) has good recovery, a decent air game, and his dair is beautiful.

 

[Matador]

Has had mad attack speed, he combos well, he kills very early (with a very fast attack) has good recovery, a decent air game, and his dair is beautiful.

Mad attack speed

With equally bad ending lag. Can Fox autocancel? His range isn't all that special either. If you factor in Fox's ending lag in comparison to Sonic's, I don't see either having the upper hand here.

Combos well

I disagree. ZSS combos well, Luigi combos well, Diddy combos well. Fox is decent at best. Fox's dair doesn't true combo into anything (though it has many options. it's an excellent move, not taking away from that). All that you could be speaking of is utilt chains which only work on a few. Enlighten me if you disagree.

Sonic's better here. He has many more options that produce better results.

Kills very early

With Usmash only, and that gets predictable. Even though the attack is fast, the ending lag is punishable, which isn't good since Fox is combo'd to hell and is KO'd at low %. Usmash kills at low %, true, but it's his only good KO move (to my knowledge). Still, he beats Sonic here pretty easily.

Good recovery

Decent recovery. Good recovery covers good distance AND isn't terribly gimped. Fox only fulfills one of these while Sonic covers both. As an added bonus, Sonic is also better at gimping than Fox.

Decent air game

Okay. I can agree with decent.

Overall, does this qualify Fox for middle tier? If you add to the fact that Fox is easily combo'd, KO'd at low %, gimpable recovery, and punishable ending lag on most attacks.