Is chain grabbing cheap?

[M@v]

I am neutral about chaingrabbing. Falco is one of the characters I play, so i Use it. Its how you play the character. I get a big grin on my face when I CG a Metaknight.

 

[RPGsFTW]

I think it is personal opinion in some ways. I myself do it, but only to a certain extend, and with certain people. I do not like chain grabbing in the ways that it's represented by in Brawl, IE: Dedede, Falco, etc.

I used to main Dedede because he is my favorite character from Nintendo, but his chaingrabing ***gotry caused me to stop playing him. I had some amazing kills with chaingrab and such to, but I don't like the fact that I can have a huge grab that infinites some of the cast, plus go into a release grab kill (Wario).

I do not think that it takes skill for a Dedede to grab a DK and throw him in place until his % is high enough that he can be killed by a throw. It's really depressing

Chaingrabbing is what I do most, when I do it, to the players that I think deserve it.

 

[M@v]

Seriously though. To people who think Spamming and CGs are cheap, DO NOT go to tournies. You will be getting very angry if you do.

 

[themrskills]

All you people who look at Brawl and say, "Chaingrabs are cheap, they take no skills" and "Metaknight is cheap, he takes no skill" why don't you just play Melee that took skill and quit posting stupid posts about chaingrabs?

 

[Barge]

All you people who look at Brawl and say, "Chaingrabs are cheap, they take no skills" and "Metaknight is cheap, he takes no skill" why don't you just play Melee that took skill and quit posting stupid posts about chaingrabs?

Because chaingrabs are in brawl. And melee =/= brawl. Therefore brawl is what we're discussing

 

[IDK]

Don't get grabbed
Only skilled players can CG with IC's

Only skilled players know what to do after CGing them to a high percent with falco/ddd.

it only took me a couple hours to learn all their cg's. well... almost all. not the hylian footstool one(s). i'm only skilled with diddy/marth. not IC. i think it's just timing?

 

[Barge]

it only took me a couple hours to learn all their cg's. well... almost all. not the hylian footstool one(s). i'm only skilled with diddy/marth. not IC. i think it's just timing?

Well you can't practice your CG's on one character, every character is different, its incredibly hard to know what CG's do use on 39 different characters.
For example: You can't downthrow fair CG bowser and DK, but they're easier to Fthrow cg. You can't fthrow cg ness, lucas, rob, jiggly, MK well (you can, but its way way wayyyyy harder) but they can be dthrow to fair cg'd easily.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Basically, it's all about timing when it comes to the Ice Climbers. You have to understand the grabs themselves, the properties that they have, the way the Ice Climbers move while the other is throwing, and weight of the character that you are throwing so that you can adjust the speed.

It's something that is really hard to do...

 

[Aznpkilla]

Even Hylian's starting to say how hard it is to play the Ice Climbers consistently. At low percentages, it's easy to break out and a lot of IC players take that into account, I certainly do.

There's also landing that grab with the short range and Metaknight having that big sword...

As you can tell, I'm cool with CGs...

Then again I guess I just said I played Ice Climbers...

 

[Little England]

Nothing is cheap until it is banned. Play to win.

 

[Lex Crunch]

Cripes, why is this thread still going? The point has been made... several times, in many ways. Let it alone!

 

[Nasanieru]

I'm sick of these scrubby threads complaining about "cheap" techniques. When will you understand that playing a fighter at an advanced level means that you have to be as "cheap" (aka EFFECTIVE) as possible and use various tricks to bring your opponent down?

Even if its easy to do the only ones you can blame are the ones who made the game for making it that way. . .fighting in tournament is not about playing with "honor", it is about using every tool you have to your advantage.

If you don't like it quit and take your worthless ideas with you.

 

[MastaShake99]

i would hate to be the target of Nasanieru's criticism

 

[Joxer]

i agree that chain grabbing is part of the game. learn how to spot dodge

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Cheap, but hell, it helps character's like IC's which makes them little to nothing without em

 

[Genome Squirrel]

i'm actually curious how some of you more experienced players define cheap. my best definition would be a move or a series of moves that causes extensive damage to an opponent while your opponent can do nothing, or an easily performed tactic that deals damage while placing the player in low risk situation.

and you shouldn't complain to much about people using "scrubby" language. fundamentally, fighting games are about two players constantly interacting, not player a picks ddd - player 1 picks bowser - player 1 reads a magazine. there's a fine line between cheap tactics, and tactics that break the game.

 

[Uffe]

don't get grabbed

It's a legit strategy in tournaments

If you wanna get better, it's okay cuz it improves your skills on avoiding grabs

I guess it would be kinda lame in friendly matches, but whatever

Not as easy as you think.

 

[JohnAnon]

Chaingrabs are, in fact, cheap. Chaingrabs are a cheap way to rack up damage easily, followed sometimes by a near-undodgable kill. It hardly takes any skill. It only requires getting the timing right, except the special exception of Ice Climbers, which also requires reflexes. But Ice Climbers's chaingrabs are ever cheaper. Falco's chaingrab to Dair is also friggin cheap.

But you can't really ban it, because that would require grabbing more than once banned as whole. And as long as it's not banned and will help them win tournaments, it's not gonna stop anyone.

 

[Falconv1.0]

It's a move that is pulled off by punishing someone. Anyone who says their 'cheap' is

1.) A scrub

2.) A fool who uses a ****ty character and cant cope with it's shortcomings

aaaaaaaand

3.) A 'tiger petter'. Someone who, when at the zoo, actually attempts to pet tigers. Sometimes while holding some form of meat in their hand.

 

[wangston]

Chain grabs work best at low percents so don't get grabbed at a low percent.

 

[Lore]

It's simple really. Chain Grabbing isn't 'cheap'. Cheap, in my opinion, is a move that is really spammable, and people spam it a lot.

Chain grabbing is a legitimate tactic. It's in almost all fighting games. If you complain about it a lot, I think you need to stop being a wuss/scrub/noob/tiger petter.

 

[Midnaftw]

Chain Grabbing isn't that cheap. You have to stop it eventually at the edge, if they survive to F-Throw it gives them an opportunity to avoid it next time.

Chaingrabbing off a walk-off or into a wall until 999% is however cheap in my view.

 

[smaci92]

Not as easy as you think.

ummm actually it is easier then you think. all you have to do is space your moves and stay in the air more...if you look at better players, you don't see people who can chaingrab get much grabs on them...

 

[magikguy]

It is cheap when its an infinite only.

 

[Discolicious]

Winning is everything do not get grabbed if your gonna cry :D

 

[KageIsGoingDown]

Well I dunno if it's "Cheap" but it's definately frowned upon in friendlies but in actual tournament matches it's pretty much do whatever you can to win. Pulling hair, shots to the groin and chaingrabs all kinda fall under the same thing so really it all depends on the situation. I'd do it in a tournament to win since it's a legit technique..but it's kind of a greasy move to be honest.

 

[VGSteve]

I agree that chaingrabbing isn't cheap, but being three stocked in a match where all the Falco did was spam lasers, then chaingrab to spike, then I could understand the frustration. Unlike the edgehogging thread I posted in, I think that chaingrabs should be used when it proves beneficial, not to be an ***.

 

[KageIsGoingDown]

I agree that chaingrabbing isn't cheap, but being three stocked in a match where all the Falco did was spam lasers, then chaingrab to spike, then I could understand the frustration. Unlike the edgehogging thread I posted in, I think that chaingrabs should be used when it proves beneficial, not to be an ***.

that's a good point, I'd have to agree with that. The line is very thin as to what is cheap in the Smash Bros. series. Is chain-grabbing is cheap? If so, would that make Ganon's nuetral A on the ground against a wall repeatedly cheap (Ganon is SSBM cuz Brawl is gay)? Is breathing fire off the edge with Bowser when your apponent is trying to get back cheap? Is spamming lasers with Fox or Falco cheap? Is parrying pretty much every move with Roy cheap (And I didn't say Roy AND Marth because as everyone knows Marth's counter couldn't possibly be cheap considering it as effective as mastubating with sand-paper)? The list goes on...There is such thing as Spamming, like using Link's up-B over and over and over, and then there is a thing called skill. Chain-grabbing is one of those things that takes a certain ammount of skill (not THAT much skill but some skill none the less) so is it cheap? Maybe slightly but at least it's not spamming scrub moves.

 

[Yuna]

Brawl is cheap.

No, really, if you like to whine about stuff being "cheap", then maybe Competitive Brawl isn't for you.

 

[choknater]

Definitely. Every character has the capacity to be cheap. Heck, I 3-stocked some of my better crew mates with a Mario that just spams fireballs, rolls around, and uses up-B out of shield to counter.

 

[DeCoN]

chaingrabbing isnt cheap, you can ultimately get out of them if you time it right.


theyre just annoying as **** on levels with a walk off

 

[HeroMystic]

I'm surprised this topic is still alive...

Seriously, this quote sums up this entire thread.

chain grabbing is cheap
cheap things are good, exploit them

 

[Ice Climbers P and N]

Not as easy as you think.

Dodge.

10chaingrabs

 

[Hive]

Actually the main problem I have with chaingrabbing is that it introduces damage that is almost always completely unproportional to someone's skill... ; ;the exception here being ICs who's chaingrabs are actually quite difficult to learn. (and they also have the kwlest CGs hands down )
It kills me that I have to counterpick characters like DDD, away from samus, to even have a decent chance of winning... in tourney discussion this is even the suggested course of action for most characters who can be CG'd :/.
but its hard to ever get chaingrabs out of a competitive scene since some characters rely on them for there metagame..... getting rid of that would hurt some of these characters a lot... especially ICs
However, you can't tell me that DDD's chaingrab isn't easy to learn... it has great range... it takes like 10minutes max on training.... and equals what? 50% maybe every time or a stock if you are on a level with a wall, walk off, or have a character with an infinite (and they WILL counterpick these)? Yes, I'd call that cheap. Even at ppl playing at metagame will get grabbed- look at almost any high level ICs vid.
@people who say "just don't get grabbed" -lmao
But still got to get used to them they won't be leaving anytime soon

 

[chic]

try using a Luigi in tournaments... DDD's are not fun! :D

 

[KageIsGoingDown]

Actually the main problem I have with chaingrabbing is that it introduces damage that is almost always completely unproportional to someone's skill... ; ;the exception here being ICs who's chaingrabs are actually quite difficult to learn. (and they also have the kwlest CGs hands down )
It kills me that I have to counterpick characters like DDD, away from samus, to even have a decent chance of winning... in tourney discussion this is even the suggested course of action for most characters who can be CG'd :/.
but its hard to ever get chaingrabs out of a competitive scene since some characters rely on them for there metagame..... getting rid of that would hurt some of these characters a lot... especially ICs
However, you can't tell me that DDD's chaingrab isn't easy to learn... it has great range... it takes like 10minutes max on training.... and equals what? 50% maybe every time or a stock if you are on a level with a wall, walk off, or have a character with an infinite (and they WILL counterpick these)? Yes, I'd call that cheap. Even at ppl playing at metagame will get grabbed- look at almost any high level ICs vid.
@people who say "just don't get grabbed" -lmao
But still got to get used to them they won't be leaving anytime soon

Well actually I was talking about SSBM, not Brawl. Whining about CG's in Brawl is kinda stupid seeing as how the game itself sucks compaired to it's prequel. There are two sides to the arguement, like in any arguement. On the one hand you have the scrub or whiner whining he is getting chain-grabbed and claiming it's cheap. If I were to defend THAT side of the arguement I would have to say, yah it is kind of cheap to constantly rack up damage to a helpless scrub but on the other hand to argue for the chain-grabber you could just as easily argue that, no it's not cheap it's a legit tactic that racks up damage and is considered an advanced move so it's pretty tricky to learn. Not to mention most advanced players know how to get out of a chain grab using D.I. (directional influence if it's a scrub reading, and if you don't know what taht is check it on SmashWiki). So as far as CG'ing being cheap. No it's not cheap, it's NOT a spamming move (spamming is cheap and shows no skill) however it it highly frowned upon in friendlies as i stated before. It's more a less a technique used when you actually wanna win, almost like a last ditch effort. It's a pretty greasy move but a legit move none the less. So this topic doesn't need to be hammered down. No it's not cheap, it's a leg-up move. A move you use to equal the playing field if you're getting *****. Oh and BTW for all the people who have a boner over Brawl, c'mon. Real men wavedash. Seriously. So don't debateabout SSBB CG's debate CG's in SSBM. ^_^

 

[Hive]

lol you can't DI out of it with most characters (hence a CG).... and do you think CG's don't happen at upper level play? It IS cheap- and of course ppl are going to use it to win, and I respect that, you should always do whatever you can to win ^^
Still its completely unproportional to skill- and no good samus (or any character that can get infinited) is ever going to win against a good DDD specifically because of CG's.(oh, and trust me, they aren't using CG's as a "last ditch" effort lol) -samus can be infinited, CG's do 50% or more damage and completely kills her spacing (It forces you to recover- which is really harsh on characters with bad recoveries b/c it will end in a spike), and on-stage ko's for her don't start til 160% with dtilt , and you have to expect at least one counterpick with DDD per series which is going to end up with infinites on walls or walkoff stages for anyone who can get CG'd. Sure, I can pull off a spam win against DDDs who don't know how to approach, but seriously... CG's=death to a lot of characters. I only bring this up, because I mean to say that even at advanced levels play CG's are devastating (its not just a "scrub" thing). Do I think its a legit move? yes, it is. But that doesn't mean it isn't "cheap."

 

[Lionman]

Is a legal bug

 

[bobson]

I main Mario.

You may be able to guess my thoughts on chaingrabbing.

 

[KageIsGoingDown]

lol you can't DI out of it with most characters (hence a CG).... and do you think CG's don't happen at upper level play? It IS cheap- and of course ppl are going to use it to win, and I respect that, you should always do whatever you can to win ^^
Still its completely unproportional to skill- and no good samus (or any character that can get infinited) is ever going to win against a good DDD specifically because of CG's.(oh, and trust me, they aren't using CG's as a "last ditch" effort lol) -samus can be infinited, CG's do 50% or more damage and completely kills her spacing, and on-stage ko's for her don't start til 160% with dtilt , and you have to expect at least one counterpick with DDD per series which is going to end up with infinites on walls or walkoff stages for anyone who can get CG'd. Sure, I can pull off a spam win against DDDs who don't know how to approach, but seriously... CG's=death to a lot of characters. I only bring this up, because I mean to say that even at advanced levels play you are at CG's are devastating (its not just a "scrub" thing). Do I think its a legit move? yes, it is. But that doesn't mean it isn't "cheap."

Well I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Of course high-end Smashers CG but a lot of them know how to counter it or get out of "infinate" CG's. In my opinion there is no infinate CG. Although Samus is incredibly floaty and terribly easily to CG, I'm sure there are Samus's out there that can D.I. out of a CG. You can't call it cheap though. If someone get's into a situation that they are getting Cg'd then they SHOULD be getting CG'd. I play as one of the easiest chars to CG. Lol so i'm pretty sure if I can D.I. out of a CG anyone can. Honestly, I don't know what the fluxuations in cheapness the CG's are in Brawl but I assume that it's pretty much the same as SSBM. I've heard of DDD's rivaled CG but honestly, if that's all DDD has, then it wouldn't be too hard to beat a DDD that focus's on one move. Case and point; Chain-grabs are a legitimate move that can rack up easy damage. Some people call that "cheap" others call it playing the game. So if you think getting CG'd is cheap go play Halo 2 or something because one point in time or another you will get CG'd. So you can either whine about it, or go back to playing your FPS's or your RTS's or your MMORPG's or whatever the hell else game doesn't have CG's....


I'm about to flaw your logic here so listen up. Most CG's if not all are a grab and then a down throw. If you don't tech the ground when your thrown down you bounce up and get caught in a CG. However, if you Tech the down throw and roll you have escaped a "cheap" attack right there. That's not all. If you don't manage to Tech the down-throw then you can just D.I. once your in the air. If you do it right, your D.I. will delay the timing and screw up your oponents steady streak of CG'ing you. So if you can't get out of a CG then dont QQ about it, just accept your fate. It's an advanced technique, thus, advanced techniques are needed to get out of one.