Is B sticking cool but ultimately impractical?

[Powda]

Feel free to shoot this post down but please explain why.

I have been B-sticking since the discovery of the AT. I too have been C-sticking to make sure I am not missing out on the lagless "stick" that comes with it.

I can and do effectively ZJ multiple times a game not only as off edge mind-games, but to return to the stage when knocked at what I feel is way too far to defend against an off edge attack.

I also wavebounce constantly mixed in with normal PKF Short hopped and full hopped. I have noticed that in many games with any peers who know how to fight a decent Lucas and his AT(meaning they have full knowledge of his Tech), they have no problems not only defending these mind games but punishing them...namely Marth, Diddy, Lucario.

So I would like to throw the question out for discussion for my own personally gain, as this is a huge decision to make the switch permanently.

Have you found you can't live without the B-stick?

I'm not asking if they provide good mindgames or helpful moves, I understand fully the potential that aspect of Lucas provides. What I want to know, is if you personally have found you could and would never play Lucas with the C-stick and feel competitive.

I appreciate any feedback as I have been thinking about this a lot in recent tournaments where I have had more success C-sticking Fsmash, with huge sucess, against higher tier characters.

thank you,

~Powda.

 

[prOAPC]

i can't play (Lucas) without b-stick
the only think that makes me think are retreating fairs, way easier and effectively with c-stick, but my thought is more like "i wish i have 2 c-stick", instead of "i wish i use c-stick"
i've tried to play Lucas without b-stick, but i feel him like slow, specially without some tech i use a lot, like full hop magnet pull and wavezap, for recovery
also, i use 2 buttons for jump, A and ZL (classic control) so i don't have problems with speed
my only problem would be just the lack of a better aerial control

 

[FireKirby7]

Without B-stick, I can't use Wave Zap. And that's pretty much it.
I can Magnet Pull, Wavebounce, and Zap Jump with just buttons no problem.
Without my C-stick, I can't space aerials and buffer smashes easily. I'm way too used with C-stick.

Really, this would just differ from person to person.

 

[Neon Ness]

Well, lemme say this.

I can play Lucas without b-sticking and still win in-tournament matches, and I'm certain several other people can, too.

But the thing is, the few Lucases that are placing well right now... I believe all of them B-stick. That pattern tells me that high level play most likely demands the options that it provides (near unpunishable PK Fire, for one).

Yes, you lose your quicksmash from the C-stick, but look at it this way. Most people here have played SSB on the N64, right? There was no c-stick, and we survived. Tilting the control stick and pressing A is not hard. Also I've seen a few videos of b-sticking Lucas players and they seem to have no problems spacing their aerials. I think C-stick aerial spacing is more important for Ness, honestly, but that's just my opinion. I think maybe I (we) have been somewhat spoiled by the C-stick, and you gotta consider if it's worth quick smashes/slightly improved aerial spacing to miss out on everything B-sticking has to offer.

I never thought I'd be the one to say this but I think I need to learn to B-stick if I actually plan on getting any further in the tournament scene. I'd recommend others to give it time and learn it as well.

 

[Rachmaninav89]

I used to play with default, and I always got punished for my pk fire, because I couldn't have a a little pull back on the move when I did and it would leave me open, so when I discovered b-stick, I started using it more and read on how to use it in a fight. I believe it advanced me greatly in my playing skill. I also wanted to be able to wave zap and stuff because I thought it was very interesting and cool haha. So in the end for me I felt like I had a better handle of lucas with b stick, and it is always fun to do wave zapping so it was win win for me. It was hard adjusting to special with c stick, but once I got used to do regular smash attacks and not c stick smashes, I thought it helped me alot, and I could charge the attack and hold the smash for certain lengths that would trick my opponent. So again I think it really helped me. haha =)

 

[Powda]

I've never found it hard to Shop in the opposite direction and PKF in the other direction, which is essentially what B-sticking provides. In other words I have no problem using PKF and avoiding punishment except against decent to better players. B-sticking and not I still get punsihed be airdodging marths or diddies.

However, C-sticking spacing is amazingly helpful when Edge gaurding as well as the bonus of faster Fsmashes. My lucas vs Marth game is far better when I c-stick because I am able to gain miliseconds speed on my smashes after dodging an attack.

Anyways I appreciate all that has been said so far, are there any players out there that have run tournies successfully without B-sticking?

 

[Levitas]

I've run tournaments successfully without bsticking, but I don't think that's what you're asking.

 

[Powda]

Levitas,

Maybe you might be able to elaborate on the differences of cstick and bstick to your personally?

 

[~Nasty~]

i place well in tournaments and i c-stick. i can do everything that someone who b-sticks can but all you need is very technical hand control to do the reverse magnet pulls and so on. but once you learn these and practice them, i feel that c-sticking is better for the retreating fairs and quicker smashes. why not? if you can get everything down w/out b-sticking, i say stick w/ c-sticking.

 

[prOAPC]

^^^^
please, tell me how you this without b-stick
XD

 

[lil cj]

Another one of these!

Theres been like 7 of these

This whole c-stick, b-stick stuff needs to get stickied lol
Its getting old


what ever works best for you

c-stick if you want fast smashes/aerials and you can do the same things you can do with b-sticking except wave Zap

b-stick if you like different controls,AT's...and Wave Zap

c-stick > b-stick

 

[~Nasty~]

^^^^
please, tell me how you this without b-stick
XD

lol, apc you are too good. also, that isn't necessary to do.... flashy, but not practical

 

[Galeon]

With b-sticking,
+you get an 'unpunishable' projectile.
-you lose the ability to smash di with the c-stick
+zap jumping is much easier and covers max distance with minimal effort.
-you sacrifice maximum control of your movement during certain aerials
+thundersliding becomes easier
-you have a chance of tripping when doing an fsmash punish


It's been said before, but ultimately it's a playstyle choice. I've been b-sticking for over a year now and now I'm actually wanting to go back to normal c-stick, but that's just a psychological difference in playstyle for me. I play differently depending on if I'm b-sticking or c-sticking even though after all this time, there shouldn't be a difference. I say do whatever you feel comfortable with. If you're forcing yourself to play a certain way, your results probably won't be spectacular. Good luck

 

[Levitas]

-you sacrifice maximum control of your movement during certain aerials

In my opinion, this is the most important thing he said, and that's why I cstick.

 

[Tyr_03]

I use the c-stick. I've tried both and prefer having the c-stick because I find it much easier to space Dairs because you can input horizontal directions at the same time as you are inputting a downward aerial.

Also, it's what I'm used to since I used to play Melee. I don't even turn tap jump off (in fact I need tap jump for a few things.)

You just have to do what works for you. Ultimately, what B-sticking does is extend the safe zone of PK Fire. The move has a safe zone either way, B-sticking just increases its range.

Zap jumping is really easy to do either way. I don't know why people act like it's a big deal. You pretty much just press the Y and the B button consecutively. Maybe it's just Melee skillz leaking over lol.

 

[Powda]

Thanks for all the responses and great input.

I've made my decision.

 

[prOAPC]

i don't use the b-stick to zap jump, but i do use b-stick for wave zap

 

[Noraa]

depends on your playstyle..

i cstick

 

[Tyr_03]

Noraa's still alive?

 

[Emperor Time]

B-sticking is ******** if you like spamming neutral b, imo.

 

[c3gill]

B-sticking is ******** if you like spamming neutral b, imo.

who spams pk freeze?????

i bstick, mostly for the benefit of spacing my PK Fires. I use PK Fire a LOT, and imo it is a defensive Lucas' most important move. Yea Nair and Dair are great for racking up damage, but if you are spacing your PK Fires properly many opponents will have a hard time attacking a defensive Lucas (me).

and yea defensive Lucas FTW. hes awesome at punishing approaches, and PKF spacing is baller

 

[heytallman]

With b-sticking,
-you lose the ability to smash di with the c-stick

I think this was the most important thing listed. Dear God, DI is so important, I don't wanna die early to ******** stuff.

Also, I don't Bstick, and I retreat my PK fires easily, by running, SHing, then, at the top of the jump, shoot a pk fire, and Lucas keeps going, but shoots it the other way. Granted, you can't do the same thing as with the bstick, but it's still something.

 

[soccerdude7200]

well...
wavebouncing is harder without b-stick. b-stick allows for better spacing i think and it increases your possibilities.

 

[Yikarur]

I play Lucas with manual Wavebouncing.

B-Sticking is not that worth that I want to replace Smash DI and Fast Fall Uair/Fair for momentum cancel.

Because Wavebouncing is possible without B-sticking nobody should use it. just practice the manual one

 

[Fear The Force]

I find that B-sticking is too good not to use. Not only does it help with PK Fire, auto-RARing and Wave Zap, but it also helps me turn around with Psi Magnet when I'm trying to recover so I can use Lucas's Duster Snake. Due to the fact that I can't smash with my C-stick, I've implemented stutter stepping into my game, so I have pretty good range with Lucas's forward smash now.

 

[Dxt XXII]

Also, I don't Bstick, and I retreat my PK fires easily, by running, SHing, then, at the top of the jump, shoot a pk fire, and Lucas keeps going, but shoots it the other way. Granted, you can't do the same thing as with the bstick, but it's still something.

Same here, as I mostly use my PK Fire to retreat and defend, except that you don't need a running start. Besides, there is another problem with B-Sticking. When you wavebounce, you get the backwards momentum, but stay in place for a little before you move backwards. That less than a second can mean the difference between a safe retreat and Ike's F-Smash to the face. The method in the quote gets you out of there faster.

 

[orange/xd]

I B Stick because I find manual wavebouncing to be extremely difficult.

 

[heytallman]

The only thing what really sometimes pisses me off is when I try to do a retreating PK fire, but I accidentally PK Freeze instead, and I wavebounce back (I guess I hit B when my Control stick is right in the middle lol). I've lost stocks and even SD'd because of this before. It's pretty dumb.

 

[soccerdude7200]

^^^
Same. I accidentally hit the c-stick on a diagonal, causing me to do pk freeze instead of pk fire, and then i get punished.
I have gotten really lucky, though, and my opponent jumped right into my accidental retreating pk freeze... lol.

 

[orange/xd]

The only thing what really sometimes pisses me off is when I try to do a retreating PK fire, but I accidentally PK Freeze instead, and I wavebounce back (I guess I hit B when my Control stick is right in the middle lol). I've lost stocks and even SD'd because of this before. It's pretty dumb.

Same, I've also been punished because I accidently aimed downward for a magnet.

 

[HailCrest]

I say that b-stick is better for me because it makes it easier to do Uair (autoRAR). I didn't know about the awkward positioning of the left hand stick on the classic controller before I bought it (not that I'm complaining, my lucas has gotten a little better from it though I'm have yet to get used to it), and it's marginally harder to manual RAR with the classic controller. Because of this, I b-stick. And unpredictable magnet pulling has gotten me one or two kills before.

 

[Strawhat64]

I C-stick...but I want to learn how to B-stick since I wasn't interested at first. Now I do...and man, is going to take me a while X_x. Hmmm...I know that switching back and forward depend on the character? That what I been told.

 

[Terra~]

I prefer keeping my stick for smashes. Yeah it's good for spacing and what not but I dunno, I space with FAir and it seems to do just fine. I try and use PK Fire correctly to not get severely punished. I would say that B-Sticking is cool but I wouldn't say it's impractical. It's pretty good for mind games. Then again I like to slow my drops down with PSI Magnet for a little bit of mind game. I'd prefer, as a mind game, falling, grabbing ledge with rope snake for more rapid edge grab, edge fall and FAir onto the stage. Not really a mind game, just quick acting.

 

[ö&ö&ö&ö]

the only things i can't do with c-stick is wave zap and going one way with wavebounce then the other with magnet pull. while these may help, it is not at all worth sacrificing aerial control and better DIing. wavebouncing and zap jumping without b-stick are actually really easy; they just take practice.

 

[pianodude700]

imo, anything you can B-stick is possible without it (with maybe one exception), it's just easier with the b-stick. B-sticking is more of a convenience and a failsafe rather than opening up extra options.

With the C-stick, not only are your smashes faster and your aerials in control, but you also have more control over DI.

Maybe this is just because I played melee and any of lucas's "techniques" seem incredibly easy compared to a perfect waveshine. I don't know. But in my opinion, C-stick benefits >>>>> wavezap.

Also...wavebouncing is easily possible without B-stick...it just won't go quite as far. Still useful. Learn the timing

 

[Irsic]

I'll probably never switch, I love it too much. Besides, I never used the C-stick when it was set to smashes anyway. I never got used to it.