iRJi's Tournament Ruleset (Complete)

[fkacyan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgpv5jXrC2c

I died.

I agree that's ********, but it's the only time I've ever seen it happen.

 

[Inferno3044]

Pictochat really isn't that bad. You guys are just complaining that stupid **** might happen. Delta has shown that basically 2/3 of the stage will always be safe. You can still do SH things so that shouldn't be a problem. Cyanide has shown that no same thing will appear more than once in an 8 minute match and maybe some things won't even show up once even if the match lasts a full 8 minutes. If you're ZSS and the slant gives you a hard time recovering, you just gotta survive for about 13 seconds and you're done with it for the whole match. And no Doom, you don't have to look at the clock. You just have to see when the stage changes and play accordingly. It's really not that hard. Also playing to what might happen is stupid. Why would I try and do something like Mario's Usmash in an attempt to hit you into a rocket that might not show up?

OK so Pictochat isn't completely "fair." Neither are any CP stages, hence why they are called COUNTERPICKS. You pick a stage to counter your opponent. It doesn't mean the stage is unplayable.

My big thing against Norfair is the lava walls. They're just stupid. The stage is also extremely campy, but that can't really be considered a reason to ban it.

I still think PS2 is a legit CP because Doom hasn't given me a reason.

There is no metagame where random, potentially drastically-game changing occurences are even theoretically good for competition. Anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

inb4tripping

 

[fkacyan]

Pictochat really isn't that bad. You guys are just complaining that stupid **** might happen. Delta has shown that basically 2/3 of the stage will always be safe. You can still do SH things so that shouldn't be a problem. Cyanide has shown that no same thing will appear more than once in an 8 minute match and maybe some things won't even show up once even if the match lasts a full 8 minutes. If you're ZSS and the slant gives you a hard time recovering, you just gotta survive for about 13 seconds and you're done with it for the whole match. And no Doom, you don't have to look at the clock. You just have to see when the stage changes and play accordingly. It's really not that hard. Also playing to what might happen is stupid. Why would I try and do something like Mario's Usmash in an attempt to hit you into a rocket that might not show up?

OK so Pictochat isn't completely "fair." Neither are any CP stages, hence why they are called COUNTERPICKS. You pick a stage to counter your opponent. It doesn't mean the stage is unplayable.

My big thing against Norfair is the lava walls. They're just stupid. The stage is also extremely campy, but that can't really be considered a reason to ban it.

I still think PS2 is a legit CP because Doom hasn't given me a reason.



inb4tripping

I think you don't know the difference between "unfair" and "not competitive." Please don't ever post again in this or similar topics until you understand this.

 

[Inferno3044]

I think you don't know the difference between "unfair" and "not competitive." Please don't ever post again in this or similar topics until you understand this.

Is Pictochat really unplayable because people can't use stage control? People are just trying to find whatever reasons they can to not allow stages.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

after like a sentence i didnt care

lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Inui]

Anyone that thinks Pictochat should be legal is likely to have some amount of ***********.

Or they use garbage characters and want luck involved to help them beat good characters.

 

[Turbo Ether]

You can go over the ruleset a million times and not come up with a great solution. Acceptable? Yes. Great? Nope. The game mechanics don't allow it.

 

[ch33s3]

Anyone that thinks Pictochat should be legal is likely to have some amount of ***********.

Or they use garbage characters and want luck involved to help them beat good characters.

Which applies to me? Picto is fine. Learn stage control.

 

[Inui]

Learn luck, basically.

Okay.

lol

 

[Orion*]

Did you test it with the preconceived notion that it was a bad stage? Did people truly give it a chance? How many tournaments was it used in, in this region? How many people actually USED the stage?

i was a falco main that used to COUNTERPICK THIS STAGE REGULARLY. back in the day FD was auto banned on me and it was my favorite cp. i took EL there. i took inui there. and i was still pro banning it.

just because you joined the brawl scene like 10000 years after we did this for a long *** time doesnt mean we didnt do it
(picto)
when i mained mk they had banned norfair in NJ but it was still legal in other regions, wifi and at nationals. it was banned after cot4, i timed out dark peach and dojo timed out NL. both of stages have seen national level play, and severe testing.

There is no metagame where random, potentially drastically-game changing occurences are even theoretically good for competition. Anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

yes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qgpv5jXrC2c

LOL

I think you don't know the difference between "unfair" and "not competitive." Please don't ever post again in this or similar topics until you understand this.

gl with that

Is Pictochat really unplayable because people can't use stage control? People are just trying to find whatever reasons they can to not allow stages.

9/10 tells me you dont know what stage control is -.-. im sure you could copy past some words out of your mouth from listening to pierce or someone on swf, but you have zero idea of how to actually apply this knowledge in a tournament setting

lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<3

 

[Delta-cod]

i was a falco main that used to COUNTERPICK THIS STAGE REGULARLY. back in the day FD was auto banned on me and it was my favorite cp. i took EL there. i took inui there. and i was still pro banning it.

just because you joined the brawl scene like 10000 years after we did this for a long *** time doesnt mean we didnt do it
(picto)
when i mained mk they had banned norfair in NJ but it was still legal in other regions, wifi and at nationals. it was banned after cot4, i timed out dark peach and dojo timed out NL. both of stages have seen national level play, and severe testing.

Okay, thank you.

 

[pwiito]

yeah picto, the flower will pop out of nowhere while ur still in hitstun, how gay is that?

 

[_Yes!_]

Doesn't pictochat draw out the hazard first, and doesn't become active until the drawing's finished? I don't see how that's different from frigate's alarm or halberd's death traps.

 

[fkacyan]

Doesn't pictochat draw out the hazard first, and doesn't become active until the drawing's finished? I don't see how that's different from frigate's alarm or halberd's death traps.

A lot of them get drawn in less than a second, the other two stages give 5+ seconds of warning.

Cheese + Inferno: I don't think you know what stage control is if you're applying the phrase the way you are.

 

[Inferno3044]

9/10 tells me you dont know what stage control is -.-. im sure you could copy past some words out of your mouth from listening to pierce or someone on swf, but you have zero idea of how to actually apply this knowledge in a tournament setting

Just because I'm not good doesn't mean I'm stupid. Stage control is simply using the stage to your liking/advantage. When I attempted picking up Wario, I had a simple strategy on BF. I'd get a lead then camp the platforms. I used the stage's 3 separate platforms in combination with Wario's amazing aerial mobility to keep a lead through a simple use of stage control. I could use that same strategy on parts of pictochat (many lines, ferris wheel, tree(s), etc).

 

[iRJi]

Just because I'm not good doesn't mean I'm stupid. Stage control is simply using the stage to your liking/advantage. When I attempted picking up Wario, I had a simple strategy on BF. I'd get a lead then camp the platforms. I used the stage's 3 separate platforms in combination with Wario's amazing aerial mobility to keep a lead through a simple use of stage control. I could use that same strategy on parts of pictochat (many lines, ferris wheel, tree(s), etc).

lol, that pretty much sums up the basics of stage control, but just the basics.

When I applied stage control on picto, i meant that there is a few spots on the stage that if you were to stand on, you cant be hit by any transformation, unless you want to cound the wind part, but that is harmless as a hazard in terms of damage.

 

[Inui]

Cyanide and Orion laying down the brilliance.

 

[fkacyan]

Just because I'm not good doesn't mean I'm stupid. Stage control is simply using the stage to your liking/advantage. When I attempted picking up Wario, I had a simple strategy on BF. I'd get a lead then camp the platforms. I used the stage's 3 separate platforms in combination with Wario's amazing aerial mobility to keep a lead through a simple use of stage control. I could use that same strategy on parts of pictochat (many lines, ferris wheel, tree(s), etc).

The issue is, stage control is arbitrarily awarded on Pictochat. Somebody who is good at controlling the stage might see no benefit at all, or might see gross benefit depending on which transformations show up.

Tourneys are essentially a statistical test for skill. Randomness (i.e. Pictochat) makes that less accurate because it removes part of the element of skill.

 

[pwiito]

When I do stage control in picto chat, I can fly trhough the sky

 

[_Yes!_]

Wtf stage control?

I just throw as much **** out there as possible as snake (don't hate me cyan <3)

 

[ch33s3]

Cheese + Inferno: I don't think you know what stage control is if you're applying the phrase the way you are.

My entire game revolves around controlling the stage. Please don't insult my lack of knowledge on the game.

 

[Turbo Ether]

So much arguing over stages.

Does it REALLY matter WHERE all you potmonsters will be forfeiting your cash?

 

[fkacyan]

My entire game revolves around controlling the stage. Please don't insult my lack of knowledge on the game.

I fail to see how that's relevant to the current discussion.

Spoiler

Anyways didn't you lose to a Game and Watch? isn't that a 99-1 MU?

ICs don't really have an effecitve way of controlling Pictochat - It can work out well for you or give the platforms the entire match to avoid grabs. I find it ironic you would argue it makes for good stage control when it, in fact, does the opposite for your character's particular brand of it.

 

[Max Ketchum]

My entire game revolves around controlling the stage. Please don't insult my lack of knowledge on the game.

Cheese, however much better you may be, Cyanide is LEAGUES smarter than you and a billion times more educated in matters such as stages and fighting games in general.

 

[ch33s3]

I fail to see how that's relevant to the current discussion.

Spoiler

Anyways didn't you lose to a Game and Watch? isn't that a 99-1 MU?

ICs don't really have an effecitve way of controlling Pictochat - It can work out well for you or give the platforms the entire match to avoid grabs. I find it ironic you would argue it makes for good stage control when it, in fact, does the opposite for your character's particular brand of it.

I don't see me losing to someone being relevant either. The ICs don't do particularly well on Pictochat, but with ANY character, controlling the safe zone over the course of the match will give you an advantage. Whether it's just to put your opponent above you (advantage for almost the entire cast), or to actually force them into a hazard, it's good for you to control that space. The ICs can't do it too well, you're right. That doesn't mean it's not the optimal strategy on that stage.

Cheese, however much better you may be, Cyanide is LEAGUES smarter than you and a billion times more educated in matters such as stages and fighting games in general.

I was in no way insulting his intelligence or knowledge. I'm fully aware of how well he understands fighting games.

 

[fkacyan]

I don't see me losing to someone being relevant either. The ICs don't do particularly well on Pictochat, but with ANY character, controlling the safe zone over the course of the match will give you an advantage. Whether it's just to put your opponent above you (advantage for almost the entire cast), or to actually force them into a hazard, it's good for you to control that space. The ICs can't do it too well, you're right. That doesn't mean it's not the optimal strategy on that stage.

But in this case, you're not gaining an advantage as a result of your character being able to exploit them not being in the safe zone. You're gaining an advantage because the stage might decide to come and kill them for you. King-of-the-hill also applies to Warioware, but I doubt we're going to enable it on the basis that it encourages playing in a safe zone!

 

[ch33s3]

But in this case, you're not gaining an advantage as a result of your character being able to exploit them not being in the safe zone. You're gaining an advantage because the stage might decide to come and kill them for you. King-of-the-hill also applies to Warioware, but I doubt we're going to enable it on the basis that it encourages playing in a safe zone!

It's only King of the Hill on Pictochat in certain matchups which aren't likely to be played because neither character has a considerable advantage there. Characters like DK STRONGLY exploit you not being in the safe zone and have very powerful (invincible!) ways to force you out where they can really do work.

 

[fkacyan]

It's only King of the Hill on Pictochat in certain matchups which aren't likely to be played because neither character has a considerable advantage there. Characters like DK STRONGLY exploit you not being in the safe zone and have very powerful (invincible!) ways to force you out where they can really do work.

You're going to have to give me an example of this, because the only character I can see wanting to CP here regularly for an actual matchup advantage is Falco; otherwise, it would be player preference to using luck in a KotH-style match.

EDIT: LOL@DK CPing to this stage anyways, D3 would take a **** on his face on a stage this large.

 

[ch33s3]

You're going to have to give me an example of this, because the only character I can see wanting to CP here regularly for an actual matchup advantage is Falco; otherwise, it would be player preference to using luck in a KotH-style match.

DK vs MK is one good example, as is Falco vs a lot of characters, as you said. DDD does well because he's essentially guaranteed a few wall infinite chances as well. This is just off the top of my head.

 

[fkacyan]

DK vs MK is one good example, as is Falco vs a lot of characters, as you said. DDD does well because he's essentially guaranteed a few wall infinite chances as well. This is just off the top of my head.

So the number of legitimate counterpicks is limited to select matchups for some characters and then a character who essentially universally wins.

So we have the following for it:

-Select legit CPs for maybe three charactes

And against:

-Unpredictable randomness
-Randomness that can kill
-One character who can exploit the small safe zone to win all matchups where he is not already hardcountered

Randomness and overcentralization? Yeah, no.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I have noticed that white people love to use the words, "clearly" and "essentially".

 

[fkacyan]

I have noticed that white people love to use the words, "clearly" and "essentially".

I also like the word 'however.'

 

[pwiito]

pictochat is gay get that shi out lol, corneria is not even...., norfair is mega gay too, however hanenbow was pretty legit

 

[iRJi]

So, I pretty much spent the rest of my night, and some of my day doing tests on picto. All I did really was test to see if the information that was posted about the stage that was posted was true or not, and it happens to all be true. Because of the variable factor, this makes pictochat a non playable stage for a competitive scene. Pictochat will be removed from my list. For more information, I will direct you to this post:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10574096&postcount=219

 

[Inferno3044]

So, I pretty much spent the rest of my night, and some of my day doing tests on picto. All I did really was test to see if the information that was posted about the stage that was posted was true or not, and it happens to all be true. Because of the variable factor, this makes pictochat a non playable stage for a competitive scene. Pictochat will be removed from my list. For more information, I will direct you to this post:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10574096&postcount=219

Fair enough. I can accept this through his testing.

With Pictochat now out of the way, how about talking about PS2? It's like PS1 but the stage changes make it more CP-like than PS1

 

[Inui]

Windmill part is too gay.

 

[_Yes!_]

Ps2 is dumb unless every wii is hacked to get rid of the crap. It'd be the best neutral ever in that case.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Fair enough. I can accept this through his testing.

With Pictochat now out of the way, how about talking about PS2? It's like PS1 but the stage changes make it more CP-like than PS1

So when everyone in the community says the stage is dumb bull****, you talk about stage control, but when somebody close to Pierce says it's dumb bull****, you automatically concede? Cyanide brought in a ****load of "testing" evidence yesterday, complete with charts and ****, but merely WORDS from RJ are enough to sway you instantly?

The stage transformations are what make PS1 a counterpick. -_- Some characters can set up unbreakable walls on the transformations, use the windmill for massive combos, utilize wall infinites, screw opponents over with the weird ledge shape, semi-shark, etc. The stage is PLENTY "CP-like".

PS2 is flat out ********. The spacies CANNOT recover to the left side of the electric transformation. You thought PS1 had "campy" transformations? Try fighting Wario or GW on the flying transformation. The ice one is just...flat out ********. lol at the idea of MK SLIDING THE **** AROUND doing ultra safe moves. There's so much more nonsense that goes on on that stage that I don't feel like listing because you'd have to be some kind of ******** not to see it. Before you open your mouth about testing garbage, that stage was legal WAY back before you existed. It and Pictochat (along with Norfair, Japes, etc.) are banned for a reason.

I can't believe some people want Pictochat and Stadium 2 legalized, but Rainbow Cruise banned. LOL

Please refrain from posting in this thread until you develop a more level-headed mindset and further your knowledge about the game. Just because you talk to Pierce doesn't make you smart/informed. Harsh as this post may be, it's the truth (or at least my honest opinion, but I'm sure I'm not alone).

 

[Inui]

Doom is becoming more and more like me every day.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Chill, dawg.