_Yes!_
Smash Hero
Do they take your stock like Delfino, PS1, and Castle Seige have done to me? Hardly.
-
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iRJi's Tournament Ruleset (Complete)
- Thread starter iRJi
- Start date
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Getting hit into the cart is death at 90. The diagonal line ****s some characters up on recovery and can create obnoxious wall AND ceiling combos (seriously, Hyrule and Skyworld are banned for a reason). The spike walls kill. The rockets can kill. I believe the plant can as well.
It seems like you're the only one unlucky enough to have these transformations kill you so frequently, unfortunately. I've fallen through Castle Siege maybe one time? Plus, what characters can't recover from stuff like this?
It seems like you're the only one unlucky enough to have these transformations kill you so frequently, unfortunately. I've fallen through Castle Siege maybe one time? Plus, what characters can't recover from stuff like this?
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
They sink, and I know my luck is crappy. That's why I don't believe in luck 
.
Edit: the fact that it happens though, makes me question the validity of these stages as well.
.Edit: the fact that it happens though, makes me question the validity of these stages as well.
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
These stages have proven that, except under extraneous circumstances of balls-**** luck, they're perfectly legitimate counterpicks.
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
I guess so. I concede (OMFG WTF WHO DOES THAT).
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Everyone after 10 posts back and forth with Inui
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
There's a difference between respectfully conceding and giving up to protect your head from another desk.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
The Spike Walls kill? I thought people just teched the floor after getting hit by them.
The rockets kill? I recall them having near set knockback.
The plant kills pretty weakly. It's probably similar to being killed by Halberd's claw, honestly.
Not too sure about the cart, I've very rarely been hit into it, mainly on account of it's easy to airdodge through everything in this game due to lack of hitstun. You can also DI away from the cart, and DI the hit from that cart.
The transformations that don't do damage, just change the terrain of the map NATURALLY favor mobile characters. So do the transformations EVERYWHERE. MK on PS1 is nearly unapproachable on any of the transformations except maybe the grass one. These types of advantages are what make stages counterpicks.
Also, this stage is NOT limited to an extremely small area.
It's more than half the area near the floor.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Eff that stage.
If I'm going to play on luck-based, random, stupid stages, I want them to be fun ones.
SEE ME ON WARIO WARE, 75m, PORT TOWN, AND OTHER STAGES IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS PICTOCHAT!
If I'm going to play on luck-based, random, stupid stages, I want them to be fun ones.
SEE ME ON WARIO WARE, 75m, PORT TOWN, AND OTHER STAGES IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS PICTOCHAT!
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Whatever, go ahead and legalize Pictochat, lol. Waste of a ban.
On PS1, worst case scenario is to wait the 30 or 45 seconds out and then play on a stage that's extremely neutral. Two platforms, adequate boundary size. Basically ANY character is virtually unapproachable on PS1, obviously MK is no exception, but he's certainly not the only one.
On PS1, worst case scenario is to wait the 30 or 45 seconds out and then play on a stage that's extremely neutral. Two platforms, adequate boundary size. Basically ANY character is virtually unapproachable on PS1, obviously MK is no exception, but he's certainly not the only one.
Hey, aspect of the spike wall you probably didn't know:
If you hit them into the back bottom part it hits that player into itself 3-6 times dealing an absurd amount of damage.
I did it to Pi_wii once in a friendly and he went from 30 to 140 in about 3 seconds. What a great stage!
EDIT:
The Cyanide Stagelist
(And related rules)
Starter (7):
Final Destination
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Delfino Island
Castle Siege
Counterpicks:
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1
(TO Choice) Rainbow Cruise
LGL: 20 or 25. TO Choice. I'd lean towards lower; I'm waiting for the day somebody manages to plank somebody in Midwest on Norfair without ever grabbing a ledge (Through extensive use of sideB canceling!).
Scrooging: Go ahead! I've never seen this as an issue.
If you hit them into the back bottom part it hits that player into itself 3-6 times dealing an absurd amount of damage.
I did it to Pi_wii once in a friendly and he went from 30 to 140 in about 3 seconds. What a great stage!
EDIT:
The Cyanide Stagelist
(And related rules)
Starter (7):
Final Destination
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Delfino Island
Castle Siege
Counterpicks:
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1
(TO Choice) Rainbow Cruise
LGL: 20 or 25. TO Choice. I'd lean towards lower; I'm waiting for the day somebody manages to plank somebody in Midwest on Norfair without ever grabbing a ledge (Through extensive use of sideB canceling!).
Scrooging: Go ahead! I've never seen this as an issue.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
If people complain about ceiling combos, can't you also mention PS1's pinwheel?
IN ALL HONESTY, use Japanese stagelist, FD/BF/SV.
Since everyone finds something to complain about every stage except those 3.
IN ALL HONESTY, use Japanese stagelist, FD/BF/SV.
Since everyone finds something to complain about every stage except those 3.
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
I agree with FD/BF/SV, either that or Atlantic North's current stagelist (maybe minus Rainbow). Only two acceptable lists.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I'm not running any tournaments, so it's not my decision to legalize Picto.
The same approach problem applies to Pictochat as well. On a lot of the obstructive transformations, you don't want to approach because it's incredibly difficult due to a defensive wall/ceiling, limiting your approach. However, these obstructive forms are just a few of the 27 possible transformations, and they only last for 13 seconds.
You have 13 seconds to hit them at the perfect angle for that to happen, assuming the spike walls even show up during the match. Then, you have to assume the opponent doesn't DI out of it. How situational.
While grabbing MK during the transforming part of Castle Siege, I fell through the stage and died as he recovered! What a great stage!
Situational problems are situational.
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
Agreed
10Japanesestagelists.
@Delta: Also Siege is amazing because if you trip on transformation 2 -> 3 or 3 -> 1, and then the platform isnt there, you still go into trip, WHILE FALLING!
grr-rage
One is a bug. Another is an eventuality you can plan for (The odds are for several of the hazards spawning during the duration of an 8-minute match). Apples and oranges, broski.
Second, they can't DI out if you hit them into that position, at least not before they suffer more damage than they ever should for being hit in a certain direction.
Thirdly, transform times are not static. T-block made a great post about it, actually; duration and time between transformations are 100% random.
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Please post the thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270499
ReseaaaaaaaarchPICTOCHAT
Introduction:
With the revealing of the MLG stage list, there has been some debate over the legality of Pictochat. I thought it would be best to get some facts straight about the stage, as there were only a couple of very outdated threads on the topic on these boards. I ran a quick test of four runs through the stage, and there are a few things I feel that everyone should know about this stage before we attempt to argue it. Some of the things I found in this quick experiment were surprising to me as well. I'm also going to include facts about certain transformations and the stage in general that I believe everyone should know. I realize that four runs is not a very impressive sample size, but it was enough for me to disprove some beliefs about the stage, while being sure of some new conclusions. Some conclusions may be disproven with further testing, so please take them as possibilities.
I tried to describe each transformation as best I could. If there's any confusion as to which transformation is being described, feel free to ask and I'll clarify. I don't want to spend time listing the transformations here.
There is a lot of data here, and not all of it is important to read. If you want to read the most important parts of this post, just read the parts in blue.
Observations:
ON THE STAGE IN GENERAL:
- There are 27 transformations, and the game cycles through all 27 before repeating any.
[*]It usually takes just over 9 minutes to get through a cycle of 27. This means that in a standard 8 minute match there will be transformations that do not appear. If the game takes 5 minutes, there will be around 15 transformations.- The first transformation appears two seconds into the match.
[*]The time of appearance and duration of each transformation is not predictable in general. See the Timing section for more details.
[*]Transformations do not become "active" (you cannot interact with them) until they are completely drawn.- Drawing time varies for each transformation, but is generally around one second.
- Pictochat has a slightly higher ceiling than Final Destination (vertical kill moves kill ~2% later without DI) (source: Project Vertical)
ON THE TRANSFORMATIONS WITH HITBOXES:
- Missiles do set knockback and generally won't kill with proper DI. Being hit by one does 25%.
[*]The drawing time on the missiles makes them avoidable, or at the very least shieldable, on reaction.
[*]It is very easy to influence the trajectory you are sent on by the missiles. Very rarely should you be hit by one into the other- If left alone, the time at which the missiles explode by themselves seems to vary from halfway across the stage to all the way across the stage.
[*]Arrows can only hit you when they spawn if you are in the air. If you are on the ground where they will spawn, they will merely push you aside.- Fire only does 1% per hit and has very weak knockback.
- Arrows, Cart, Plant, Spikes all have knockback that scales with damage.
- Spikes will hit you into themselves and kill you vertically if you are sent flying hard enough into them (unconfirmed)
ON VARIOUS OTHER TRANSFORMATIONS:
- Diagonal Line does not allow you to grab the ledge on the left side. It is the only transformation without a hitbox that can kill you, barring some ridiculous circumstance.
- The two leftmost dominos in Dominos transformation are solid (ie- you can bounce off them as a ceiling). The rest are pass-through.
- Even if in free-fall animation, you can still grab onto a ladder. This makes up-b moves less punishable.
- It is possible to stand "inside" the spring.
- The wind on the Blowing transformation does not extend past the far end of the stage.
[*]6/27 transformations (Arrows, Cart, Fire, Missiles, Plant, Spikes) have active hitboxes.
[*]5/27 transformations (Arrows, Cart, Plant, Spikes, Diagonal Line) have the potential to kill you. Missiles is not counted due to set knockback.
[*]6/27 transformations (Arrows, Bricks, Diagonal Line, Sailboat, Singer, Whale) have temporary "walls".
[*]3/27 (Bricks, Sailboat, Whale) could leave one player untouchable, if they spawn around him.
ON THE TIMING OF CERTAIN TRANSFORMATIONS:
- The clock always follows the same rotation: the minute hand moves from the 30-minute position to just past the 00-minute position. The transformation always takes approximately 10 seconds.
- The carousel always makes exactly one full rotation. The transformation always takes approximately 16.2 seconds.
- The plant follows a pattern of two bites before leaving its mouth open for a few seconds. It goes through this pattern three times. The transformation always takes approximately 15 seconds.
- The swinging beam always starts at the centre. It makes 4.5 half-cycles before disappearing, ending on the left apex. The transformation always takes approximately 16.2 seconds.
- The cart always starts at the left apex of its path and ends at the left apex. It makes either 6 or 8 half-cycles, taking either 13 seconds or 17 seconds.
- The sheep always starts at the rightmost point of its path and ends at the rightmost point. It moves either 6 or 8 times, taking either 13 seconds or 17 seconds.
Timing:
Raw Data:
Times were taken whenever a transformation appeared (drawing begins) and whenever a transformation disappeared (erasing begins). The times shown for a specified drawing involve times for the blank stage prior to its appearance, followed by the times for the drawing itself. Values would be the value on the timer of a 10:00 match.
Testing was done with only a stopwatch, so there will be some error in the times. These should be accurate to within 0.5s though.
Code:[U]RUN 1:[/U] DRAWING ABSENT PRESENT Umbrella 10:00.0-9:58.2 9:58.2-9:46.8 Sheep 9:46.8-9:39.2 9:39.2-9:22.4 Clock 9:22.4-9:12.7 9:12.7-9:02.8 Missiles 9:02.8-8:54.1 8:54.1-8:40.8 Dominos 8:40.8-8:33.9 8:33.9-8:22.6 Swinging Beam 8:22.6-8:17.0 8:17.0-8:00.5 Cart 8:00.5-7:52.6 7:52.6-7:35.5 Spikes 7:35.5-7:28.5 7:28.5-7:16.4 Flag 7:16.4-7:07.8 7:07.8-6:53.6 Singer 6:53.6-6:47.9 6:47.9-6:34.5 Plant 6:34.5-6:27.6 6:27.6-6:12.7 Arrows 6:12.7-6:05.4 6:05.4-5:51.4 House 5:51.4-5:44.1 5:44.1-5:33.9 Whale 5:33.9-5:24.5 5:24.5-5:10.3 Two Trees 5:10.3-5:01.8 5:01.8-4:51.2 Fire 4:51.2-4:42.9 4:42.9-4:31.4 Banners 4:31.4-4:22.7 4:22.7-4:11.0 Sailboat 4:11.0-4:04.0 4:04.0-3:51.2 Bricks 3:51.2-3:45.3 3:45.3-3:30.5 Carousel 3:30.5-3:21.2 3:21.2-3:05.0 Ladders 3:05.0-2:59.3 2:59.3-2:47.1 Platforms 2:47.1-2:38.9 2:38.9-2:27.4 Blowing 2:27.4-2:19.2 2:19.2-2:08.1 Diagonal Line 2:08.1-2:01.1 2:01.1-1:46.8 Tree 1:46.8-1:40.8 1:40.8-1:28.6 Eyes 1:28.6-1:21.8 1:21.8-1:10.5 Springs 1:10.5-1:02.1 1:02.1-0:52.2 [U]RUN 2:[/U] DRAWING ABSENT PRESENT Clock 10:00.0-9:58.4 9:58.4-9:48.4 Ladders 9:48.4-9:41.8 9:41.8-9:31.1 Banners 9:31.1-9:23.1 9:23.1-9:11.0 Platforms 9:11.0-9:03.9 9:03.9-8:51.2 Swinging Beam 8:51.2-8:45.3 8:45.3-8:29.0 Whale 8:29.0-8:19.8 8:19.8-8:07.1 Flag 8:07.1-7:59.7 7:59.7-7:46.8 Bricks 7:46.8-7:37.8 7:37.8-7:23.5 Sheep 7:23.5-7:17.4 7:17.4-7:04.3 Two Trees 7:04.3-6:56.1 6:56.1-6:45.8 Plant 6:45.8-6:38.3 6:38.3-6:23.1 House 6:23.1-6:13.8 6:13.8-6:02.5 Diagonal Line 6:02.5-5:54.9 5:54.9-5:43.8 Singer 5:43.8-5:35.9 5:35.9-5:22.9 Sailboat 5:22.9-5:15.8 5:15.8-5:01.3 Missiles 5:01.3-4.52.6 4:52.6-4:38.0 Fire 4:38.0-4:32.8 4:32.8-4:20.3 Eyes 4:20.3-4:14.1 4:14.1-4:03.0 Blowing 4:03.0-3:53.6 3:53.6-3:39.6 Spikes 3:39.6-3:31.4 3:31.4-3:16.6 Carousel 3:16.6-3:08.5 3:08.5-2:52.2 Springs 2:52.2-2:43.9 2:43.9-2:29.1 Cart 2:29.1-2:20.6 2:20.6-2:07.2 Umbrella 2:07.2-1:58.9 1:58.9-1:47.1 Arrows 1:47.1-1:39.1 1:39.1-1:28.2 Dominos 1:28.2-1:19.0 1:19.0-1:02.8 Tree 1:02-8-0:57.5 0:57.5-0:44.7 [U]RUN 3:[/U] DRAWING ABSENT PRESENT Clock 10:00.0-9:57.9 9:57.9-9:48.1 Sheep 9:48.1-9:41.7 9:41.7-9:25.0 Eyes 9:25.0-9:18.0 9:18.0-9:07.1 Ladders 9:07.1-8:58.1 8:58.1-8:44.1 Umbrella 8:44.1-8:37.1 8:37.1-8:26.3 Singer 8:26.3-8:16.8 8:16.8-8:05.7 Flag 8:05.7-7:58.6 7:58.6-7:46.8 Whale 7:46.8-7:37.4 7:37.4-7:26.2 Swinging Beam 7:26.2-7:17.4 7:17.4-7:01.3 Sailboat 7:01.3-6:54.4 6:54.4-6:43.0 Springs 6:43.0-6:35.2 6:35.2-6:21.7 Fire 6:21.7-6:14.0 6:14.0-5:59.9 Spikes 5:59.9-5:52.3 5:52.3-5:41.5 Bricks 5:41.5-5:34.4 5:34.4-5:21.9 Diagonal Line 5:21.9-5:15.8 5:15.8-5:04.0 Banners 5:04.0-4:55.8 4:55.8-4:40.8 Dominos 4:40.8-4:32.0 4:32.0-4:19.7 Two Trees 4:19.7-4:13.3 4:13.3-3:58.7 Blowing 3:58.7-3:52.1 3:52.1-3:40.9 Tree 3:40.9-3:32.4 3:32.4-3:22.1 Platforms 3:22.1-3:14.0 3:14.0-3:00.1 Plant 3:00.1-2:52.3 2:52.3-2:37.2 Carousel 2:37.2-2:30.3 2:30.3-2:14.0 Cart 2:14.0-2:07.2 2:07.2-1:54.1 Arrows 1:54.1-1:45.7 1:45.7-1:35.3 Missiles 1:35.3-1:27.6 1:27.6-1:13.8 House 1:13.8-1:05.8 1:05.8-0:51.1 [U]RUN 4:[/U] DRAWING ABSENT PRESENT Eyes 10:00.0-9:58.1 9:58.1-9:46.7 Clock 9:46.7-9:37.4 9:37.4-9:27.0 Cart 9:27.0-9:18.6 9:18.6-9:01.6 Dominos 9:01.6-8:52.8 8:52.8-8:38.6 Platforms 8:38.6-8:29.8 8:29.8-8:17.7 Banners 8:17.7-8:09.9 8:09.9-7:56.3 House 7:56.3-7:47.8 7:47.8-7:36.1 Flag 7:36.1-7:29.4 7:29.4-7:14.5 Sheep 7:14.5-7:05.3 7:05.3-6:52.4 Sailboat 6:52.4-6:43.9 6:43.9-6:29.3 Whale 6:29.3-6:22.4 6:22.4-6:11.6 Blowing 6:11.6-6:04.3 6:04.3-5:48.6 Swinging Beam 5:48.6-5:40.2 5:40.2-5:24.1 Bricks 5:24.1-5:15.6 5:15.6-5:03.5 Tree 5:03.5-4:56.0 4:56.0-4:41.7 Spikes 4:41.7-4:34.7 4:34.7-4:20.7 Umbrella 4:20.7-4:11.8 4:11.8-4:00.7 Two Trees 4:00.7-3:54.5 3:54.5-3:41.3 Ladders 3:41.3-3:32.7 3:32.7-3:21.6 Missiles 3:21.6-3:13.0 3:13.0-3:02.3 Carousel 3:02.3-2:55.4 2:55.4-2:39.2 Arrows 2:39.2-2:31.7 2:31.7-2:17.4 Plant 2:17.4-2:09.5 2:09.5-1:54.4 Diagonal Line 1:54.4-1:45.9 1:45.9-1:35.0 Singer 1:35.0-1:27.3 1:27.3-1:13.8 Springs 1:13.8-1:07.7 1:07.7-0:54.8 Fire 0:54.8-0:46.9 0:46.9-0:32.9WHAT THIS MEANS:Code:This shows the blank time before a transformation, the blank time after a transformation, and the duration of the transformation over the four runs. Arrows[INDENT]Pre- 7.3, 8.0, 8.4, 7.5 Post- 7.3, 9.2, 7.7, 7.9 Duration- 14.0, 10.9, 10.4, 14.3; MIN 10.4, MAX 14.3[/INDENT] Banners[INDENT]Pre- 8.7, 8.0, 8.2, 7.8 Post- 7.0, 8.0, 8.8, 8.5 Duration- 11.7, 10.7, 15.0, 13.6; MIN 10.7, MAX 15.0[/INDENT] Blowing[INDENT]Pre- 8.2, 9.4, 6.6, 7.3 Post- 7.0, 8.2, 8.5, 8.4 Duration- 11.1, 14.0, 11.2, 15.7; MIN 11.1, MAX 15.7[/INDENT] Bricks[INDENT]Pre- 5.9, 9.0, 7.1, 8.5 Post- 9.3, 6.1, 6.1, 7.5 Duration- 14.8, 14.3, 12.5, 12.1; MIN 12.1, MAX 14.8[/INDENT] Cart[INDENT]Pre- 7.9, 8.5, 6.8, 8.4 Post- 7.0, 8.3, 8.4, 8.8 Duration- 17.1, 13.4, 13.1, 17.0; MIN 13.1, MAX 17.1[/INDENT] Carousel[INDENT]Pre- 9.3, 8.1, 6.9, 6.9 Post- 5.7, 8.4, 6.8, 7.5 Duration- 16.2, 16.3, 16.3, 16.2; MIN 16.2, MAX 16.3[/INDENT] Clock[INDENT]Pre- 9.7, (1.6), (2.1), 9.3 Post- 8.7, 6.6, 6.4, 8.4 Duration- 9.9, 10.0, 9.8, 10.4; MIN 9.8, MAX 10.4[/INDENT] Diagonal Line[INDENT]Pre- 7.0, 7.6, 9.1, 8.5 Post- 6.0, 7.9, 8.2, 7.7 Duration- 14.3, 11.1, 11.8, 10.9; MIN 10.9, MAX 14.3[/INDENT] Dominos[INDENT]Pre- 6.9, 9.2, 8.8, 8.8 Post- 5.6, 5.3, 6.7, 8.8 Duration- 11.3, 16.2, 12.3, 14.2; MIN 11.3, MAX 16.2[/INDENT] Eyes[INDENT]Pre- 6.8, 6.2, 7.0, (1.9) Post- 8.4, 9.4, 9.0, 9.3 Duration- 11.3, 11.1, 10.9, 11.4; MIN 10.9, MAX 11.4[/INDENT] Fire[INDENT]Pre- 8.3, 5.2, 7.7, 7.9 Post- 8.7, 6.2, 7.6 Duration- 11.5, 12.5. 14.1, 14.0; MIN 11.5, MAX 14.1[/INDENT] Flag[INDENT]Pre- 8.6, 7.4, 7.1, 6.7 Post- 5.7, 9.0, 9.4, 9.2 Duration- 14.2, 12.9, 11.8, 14.9; MIN 11.8, MAX 14.9[/INDENT] House[INDENT]Pre- 7.3, 9.3, 8.0, 8.5 Post- 9.4, 7.6, 6.7 Duration- 10.2, 11.3, 14.7, 11.7; MIN 10.2, MAX 14.7[/INDENT] Ladders[INDENT]Pre- 5.7, 6.6, 9.0, 8.6 Post- 8.2, 8.0, 7.0, 8.6 Duration- 12.2, 10.7, 14.0, 11.1; MIN 10.7, MAX 14.0[/INDENT] Missiles[INDENT]Pre- 8.7, 8.7, 7.7, 8.6 Post- 6.9, 5.2, 8.0, 6.9 Duration- 13.3, 14.6, 13.8, 10.7; MIN 10.7, MAX 14.6[/INDENT] Plant[INDENT]Pre- 6.9, 7.5, 7.8, 7.9 Post- 7.3, 9.3, 6.9, 8.5 Duration- 14.9, 15.2, 15.1, 15.1; MIN 14.9, MAX 15.2[/INDENT] Platforms[INDENT]Pre- 8.2, 7.1, 8.1, 8.8 Post- 8.2, 5.9, 7.8, 7.8 Duration- 11.5, 12.7, 13.9, 12.1; MIN 11.5, MAX 13.9[/INDENT] Sailboat[INDENT]Pre- 7.0, 7.1, 6.9, 8.5 Post- 5.9, 8.7, 7.8, 6.9 Duration- 12.8, 14.5, 11.4, 14.6; MIN 11.4, MAX 14.6[/INDENT] Sheep[INDENT]Pre- 7.6, 6.1, 6.4, 9.2 Post- 9.7, 8.2, 7.0, 8.5 Duration- 16.8, 13.1, 16.7, 12.9; MIN 12.9, MAX 16.8[/INDENT] Singer[INDENT]Pre- 5.7, 7.9, 9.5, 7.7 Post- 6.9, 7.1, 7.1, 6.1 Duration- 13.4, 13.0, 11.1, 13.5; MIN 11.1, MAX 13.5[/INDENT] Spikes[INDENT]Pre- 7.0, 8.2, 7.6, 7.0 Post- 8.6, 8.1, 7.1, 8.9 Duration- 12.1, 14.8, 10.8, 14.0; MIN 10.8, MAX 14.8[/INDENT] Springs[INDENT]Pre- 8.4, 8.3, 7.8, 6.1 Post- 8.5, 7.7, 7.9 Duration- 9.9, 14.8, 13.5, 12.9; MIN 9.9, MAX 14.8[/INDENT] Swinging Beam[INDENT]Pre- 5.6, 5.9, 8.8, 8.4 Post- 7.9, 9.2, 6.9, 8.5 Duration- 16.5, 16.3, 16.1, 16.1; MIN 16.1, MAX 16.5[/INDENT] Tree[INDENT]Pre- 6.0, 5.3, 8.5, 7.5 Post- 6.8, 8.1, 7.9 Duration- 12.2, 12.8, 10.3, 14.3; MIN 10.3, MAX 14.3[/INDENT] Two Trees[INDENT]Pre- 8.5, 8.2, 6.4, 6.2 Post- 8.3, 7.5, 6.6, 8.6 Duration- 10.6, 10.3, 14.6, 13.2; MIN 10.3, MAX 14.6[/INDENT] Umbrella[INDENT]Pre- (1.8), 8.3, 7.0, 8.9 Post- 7.6, 8.0, 9.5, 6.2 Duration- 11.4, 11.8, 10.8, 11.1; MIN 10.8, MAX 11.8[/INDENT] Whale[INDENT]Pre- 9.4, 9.2, 9.4, 6.9 Post- 8.5, 7.4, 8.8, 7.3 Duration- 14.2, 12.7, 11.2, 10.8; MIN 10.8, MAX 14.2[/INDENT]
- For many transformations, the duration appears to be random, differing by as much as five seconds.
- Some transformations seem to have consistent durations; namely, Carousel, Clock, Plant, Swinging Beam, and possibly Eyes.
- Some transformations seem to have quantized durations; namely, Cart, Sheep.
- The duration of these transformations depends on how many times the animation goes back and forth (Cart moving across the track, or Sheep moving from left to right).
- Some transformations with consistent duration may actually be quantized instead of consistent - It's very possible that Plant and Swinging Beam could vary by going through more animations than was seen in these four runs.
- The blank time before any of the transformations does not stay the same.
- The blank time after any of the transformations does not stay the same.
- One possibility is that each transformation has a set time before that is blank, and a set time after that is blank. It's unlikely, but if someone would like to follow that idea, go ahead.
In other words, duration and appearance of transformations is not 100% predictable, as some have been claiming. The variance in both duration and appearance can be several seconds - a substantial window that makes predicting Pictochat impractical.
~T
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
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- 2,423
Ok, Fair enough. I will write a longer response in I need to later for this.
What do you guys feel about Norfair, since this is something that we have not talked about since the thread started.
Also, We should be having a tournament soon with this ruleset, after some tweaks and other things happen to it. RizMF, and some Zodiac braves members along with some friend will be helping host this. RiZ said that he would like to test out the ruleset and stagelist if he does hold this tournament.
ShippoFoxFire
Smash Lord
Norfair is such a campfest, and that the lava, unlike brinstar's acid, kills and combos MUCH effectively than brinstar.
Norfair's design also encurages camping, dont get me wrong it's my favorite stage in the game, but I don't think it's tournament viable.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
this is pretty much my thoughts
and @ RJ
in like all of your threads you just ask for everyones opinion before giving your own. i personally dont like that >_> just say what you want and people will agree or not agree with you, doing it the way you are just seems sketchy lool
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
You can plan for it happening, but the odds of it happening are extremely slim. Possibly as slim as me falling through the stage. Regardless of it being a glitch or not, it's still a characteristic of the stage.
They can DI away from the spot when they are hit. Once they're hit there, they are screwed, however.
I concede the third point after reading through the **** data. It appears the place I had been getting my information from was wrong.
Norfair is EXTREMELY campy and awkward to fight on, leading to a lot of running away waiting for the lava to appear so you can get some cheap shots in. It's good for characters that have a strong air game/air speed, but I don't personally like it, even though I could run away all day there with Yoshi.
I would attend a tournament with the ruleset, if you guys host one.
iRJi
Smash Champion
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Lol, I understand. I only ask for everyones opinion because it is more based community then a solo thought. I can just say I bring up the stages/ things because I feel everything I possibly bring up is viable (which in most cases is how I feel about it), but outside of that I am taking what people possibly know about the stage, or feel about the stage, and from there see if it is kinda valid or not. Kinda playing on the safe side on some terms, but I personally don't have to. I guess I can just be more direct with it if that's how people want me to go about it. After all, this is my thread, I should lololol.
It CAN lead to potential camping. The lava disables opponents to camp for extended amounts of time, and personally, if you get hit with the lava, on most cases it is your fault lol. Everything on the stage can be shielded, dodged, moved away from, etc. etc. Idk where you pulled that "it's my favorate stage" thing, because I have been saying that line since 08, while I have never heard you say it at all until now, and to be frank about it, I think it is tournament viable. Everything takes about 6+ seconds and that is plenty of time to avoid anything. The stage is bigger, but that does not mean it encourages camping to a state of non-viability (outside of a few characters anyway)
On picto, It seems my information was a bit off as well, which is why i asked for the data to begin with. And thanks theo for posting it. However, I still think Picto as a stage is viable. it looks like the information on the transformations vary by a couple seconds, but it is something that disallows someone to make a accurate read on when it will show up. I could be wrong, but unless the stage does appear like 100% random, not followed by a 5 seconds interval leniency between the transformation times, it looks like the stage should be played on. Also, there is safe zones on the stage where none of the transformations can even harm you if you take some time to find them a bit. Adds a + to how important the stage control could be on that stage.
As for norfair, I will just say look @ the above.
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
You think you have trouble with Wyatt now, try taking him down with a stagelist consisting of 3 amazing Diddy stages >.>
The same can be said for Falco, Snake, and ICs as well as hindering characters like GnW and Wario
The same can be said for Falco, Snake, and ICs as well as hindering characters like GnW and Wario
iRJi
Smash Champion
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The 3 stage list is faulty. It should never happen lol. Some of us have already explained it already.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
3 stage list is horrible.
I find that I don't even really need to be actively trying to control the stage in Pictochat. Like, the safe zone is SO large (seriously people, it's about an average SH in height and it covers more than half the floor) that it's not that hard to find yourself in it.
If anyone wants to play me on any of the stages in question (Norfair, Pictochat, Mario Circuit), I'd be happy to. RJ, we should definitely play next time we're at the same place.
I find that I don't even really need to be actively trying to control the stage in Pictochat. Like, the safe zone is SO large (seriously people, it's about an average SH in height and it covers more than half the floor) that it's not that hard to find yourself in it.
If anyone wants to play me on any of the stages in question (Norfair, Pictochat, Mario Circuit), I'd be happy to. RJ, we should definitely play next time we're at the same place.
iRJi
Smash Champion
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Should be tomorrow, if you have the time. Me and Que might be playing, and if we are you are invited to join. If you have aim, hit me up: RJ Rawrr
All of those stages are terrible, and you should feel terrible for considering them as legitimate stages.
If those ever get legalized in NJ you can expect, as a Yoshi main, to get CPd to Norfair all day and have people like Orion plank and tornado back and forth for 8 minutes while the lava gives them percent lead.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I never said I supported Norfair, but I do support the testing of such stages.
As a Yoshi main, I already expect people like Orion to CP me to Rainbow and gay me all day there. Norfair being legalized wouldn't change me getting utterly gayed on a CP. It'd just change the scenery.
As a Yoshi main, I already expect people like Orion to CP me to Rainbow and gay me all day there. Norfair being legalized wouldn't change me getting utterly gayed on a CP. It'd just change the scenery.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Nofair was tested.
Having that stage legal is just begging for teh_spamerer to show up...
Having that stage legal is just begging for teh_spamerer to show up...
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
My god!
Legalize Norfair IMMEDIATELY.
Legalize Norfair IMMEDIATELY.
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
Norfair isn't that bad other than the combos into the lava wall.
You act like we haven't already tested this ****.
Just because you weren't there doesn't mean it didn't happen.
@Yes!: MK can plank there without ever grabbing a ledge. Sideb cancels GOOOOOOOOO
_Yes!_
Smash Hero
I fear no metaknight.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Did you test it with the preconceived notion that it was a bad stage? Did people truly give it a chance? How many tournaments was it used in, in this region? How many people actually USED the stage?
Pictochat? Mario Circuit? Or was everyone just like "random hazards, ew." and "walk off, ew"?
The metagame has also changed. Retesting may be needed. Things may have changed. People become better, overcentralizing tactics are proven to be not so good.
RJ, here are those videos you wanted:
Round 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktREJ2BXxbY
Round 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQN8f3hZaco
Round 3 wasn't saved.
There is no metagame where random, potentially drastically-game changing occurences are even theoretically good for competition. Anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
qft x infinity