Iowa-Joker's Monthly"WHY SO SERIOUS?"#28 Nov 22th

[FrozenFire13]

Razor, c'mon man. I thought you gave up that ****. Come back down to the low tiers, we miss you

 

[Bonehimer]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225242&page=3
Everyone should vote cause internet polls matter.

 

[Uli]

way ahead of you bone

 

[§chizm]

I'm picking up Jiggs I guess...toooo fun. And trying to pick up ICs, but damn.
I'm probably up for games tomorrow for a bit, I don't know how long because I might be going to a concert later.

Also it would be hilarious if everyone entered the melee tourney that NE doesn't attend...I would win though obviously.

Edit: Also fuck Sagat, everyone online fucking plays him now instead of Ken.

 

[PortCity]

In all honesty, leaving Metaknight in the game creates a Prisoner's Dilemma, where the Nash Equilibrium is "Both play Metaknight". As a result, both players receive the worst payoff, but there is a large incentive to play MK if the other person is not. In non-economic terms, leaving Metaknight in the game will eventually force everyone to play metaknight.

References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma :-D

 

[Bonehimer]

Edit: Also fuck Sagat, everyone online fucking plays him now instead of Ken.

Its all about the buffalo headbutts.

I haven't played SF online for a while now. Kinda hard to put effort into a game where there are no tournaments due to such a small community.

 

[Uli]

you guys are dicks if you have a melee tourny and everyone enters without us XD

 

[Bonehimer]

We are also gonna play mleee like brawl. Falco chain garbing people, G&W tech chasing, Kirby with Gonzo combo, pikachu quacking. We will revolutionize the way melee is played.

 

[gantrain05]

well i know im pretty late for the MK discussion, but all i can say is that im REALLY FREAKIN TIRED of people just switching to mk cuz i beat them with my "crappy" peach or fox or w/e low tier i feel like at that moment, my god it happened to me nearly every single match in wisconsin, it happened in minnesota too, at least in kansas i got to play people who were good with characters that weren't metaknight.

 

[AsianFlava_Tyser]

I leave for like three hours and four pages happen . . .
I am interested in seeing who wins Melee without the best players there to shit on it.
Ill tell Mushroomring to go so he can win a Melee tournament for once :-P

If you guys do Melee, someone has to record it for some good lolz.

Also, if you get 12+ people then you guys get to be on the ranking -_- which is basically nonexistent now but its there.

Another also:

Go to Google and check it out.
If Google says so then it must be true.
Thanks West Coast for letting me discover this.

 

[Joker490Frozen]

Warning A Giant Post Is Approaching

Agree'd x10, and we sang the NicoNico Medley in the car for your birthday so shut it. xD

That $h!t was too good, I don't think Razor liked it as much >.O still the best birthday song ever.

you guys sang the nico nico melody O.o
WHERE WAS I AT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

happy bday joker :3

Thanks man, also from now on, I'm going to play the Nico Nico Melody in the middle of the tourneys XP

I plan on going and dustin never gets to go again.

He really pissed me off, when he said he wasn't going to enter, there were 3 people who could have taken his spot, next time he asks, say the spot is taken Razor.

That's terrible. He never enjoys trips to tourneys. Instead of getting experience, he complains about how he loses and gives up and sits in a corner away from people I bet. BTW, You pulled out the best sig you made Bone.

O. M. G. Love that's exactly what happen when I heard Thinkaman was on his pool, I knew he was just going to loss it, I think the main reason he gets mad, is cause he thinks the better Char should win, that's just bad.

So in order to handle Kirby's bad matchups I'm picking up Diddy and Snake.

Bcuz they throw things.

All I have to say is good luck with that, that's mainly the reason why MK is up there, cause Snake is so hard to learn that people drop him and jump to MK, even players who started with him(DSF), but I'll stick with him, and I refuse to pick MK, too ez o(0.0)o

i half expected that he would get pissed cause he always does, and i probably would have enjoyed goin more cause im just a happy kind of person

Your just a fun person to be around with, plus your floor is BANGING!! I lovez it, and again Kudou thanks for getting me all those games, cause I know it can be a pain ;3

Woo! I eat Snakes for dinner. Sorry Joker. =P

Wait. . . . . . . . . . . . Snake Eater LOLZ

ya'll need to man up and play your mains all the time
jk :3

I just need to play him period, I don't play him enough, for a Char that needs constant practice T.T

You're just jealous.... yes slippery slope indeed. It is hard to find the motivation to play someone else when you know you can win and win way easier if I just play MK.... I'd like to play snake more but I know I will never be able to accomplish what Joker does with him so I don't even try....

Snake is fun, but you should still play MK, since he got you 5th, plus we can have a MK in our Crew, and even though I hate MK, I do prefer people who started with MK like Razor, rather then people who play some Char, lose to Jlo and switch to MK XP, or Joker picks a gay stage, so they counter with MK, I mean what the Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

I always thought MK made the game unbalance, and banning him will probably be a good thing, however him not being banned will maybe advance the Metagame, M2K mention that Snake was a Counter Pick for MK, but later found out maybe not, I do think Snake can be a CP for MK, the problem is that people are droping Snake, mostly cause of MK, which is why I'll stick with him and find ways around MK, with maybe the help or Razor >.0

If he gets banned, people will be utterly amazed at how much diversity we will see in the game. Minus him, the game is balanced, but this is all a dream. Metaknight won't be banned and we will be watching matches like this...until the end of time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHtrRgPklPA

There will be more diversity, still people say, Well if MK gets banned then Snake will be next, not really, here's why:

Some examples:
Snake gets CP by Dedede
Dedede gets CP by Falco
Falco gets CP by G&W
G&W gets CP by Marth
Marth gets CP by R.O.B
and so on, point being with MK gone, you can CP with different Chars, rather then, just CP with MK.

By the way Sekku, I think you meant to show this vid XP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNa11bpyN6s

TAIGA TAIGA TAIGA TAIGA

Oh I saw a clip of that anime with the chick on in, cause I think her nickname at school is Tiger or something, point being, does anyone know that anime, I lost track of it and I kinda wanted to watched it, it seems to be my kind of anime >.<

 

[gantrain05]

hey that looks like the grand finals of minnesota lmao, but OMG i know what u mean joker, everytime i EVER pick corneria, or mansion or any of my usual cp's people just pick MK and then im screwed..... its literally impossible to fight mk on corneria and mansion lol.

 

[AsianFlava_Tyser]

Toradora is a good anime until

Spoiler

Episode 24. Things go out of proportion and it just gets stupid. Episode 1-19 is the anime at its fullest. I'd say the anime is worth the watch.

It's your typical Harem.

 

[sluys]

Se'kou - I actually totally understood your econ talk about prisoner's dilemma. That's a really good way to view mk.

Jordan - Same char teams is pretty good mindgames actually, it's more difficult for me to figure out who is more damaged.

Jake - I'm pretty proud Iowa's 1 good mk player wins stuff OoS for us. Play him if only to rep us better. Also, I'm fine being another driver to Missouri as long as nothing major comes up.

Blank - I know what you're talking about with matchups, I'm working on getting better against falco and chars with good air game like peach and luigi.

Bone - That would be such a sad day for NE if the one time they don't come, the melee tourney is huge.

Kudou - I think it's you I should talk to about twilight hack. Do you have any links handy to explain what all you can do with it besides brawl hax? If I bring my Wii down does it take long for you to hook me up?

In conclusion to this shoutout like post, I wanna remind people to try to come to Ames Thursday

 

[gantrain05]

Blank - I know what you're talking about with matchups, I'm working on getting better against falco and chars with good air game like peach and luigi.

i think you do fine against peach, but i guess we'll have to have a rematch next time we are at jokers =P

 

[AsianFlava_Tyser]

That would be such a sad day for NE if the one time they don't come, the melee tourney is huge.

It'd also prove that Iowa is scured, except Schism and Love and occasionally Kudou and MTKD.
Ill bet money that Schism wins Melee if no one from Nebraska goes (including JBM and Yosh).

 

[xfacta]

i also refuse to be metaknight and would like to see him banned.

 

[JBM falcon08]

i love melee.

tourney chars people use.

fox
falco
marth
sheik
peach
falcon
jiggs
ganon
ics
samus
Pika? (chad, n64, etc.)
Young link? (NErD DOUSEH EHHHHHH!!)

tell me if i'm missing some, but melee is a pretty balanced game, so deep there are ways around everything, brawl hasn't hit that point.

brawl bores me bcuz the technical aspect of the game doesn't exist, and doesn't seperate the noobs who are smart from the pros who have tech skill + smart unless your name is m2k.

 

[~GregDang!~]

The anime is Tora Dora Joker.

 

[Jakebudden]

Ugh all this MK hate.... I most certainly understand he is a lame char. But I do feel there is a significant difference in the casual I lost so I'm gonna play mk and me. Cause I powned every metaknight ditto I played. Plus ya know I was the highest placed mk and that was tie for 5th. Meta can be beat, but I totally agree it takes that much more effort.

Snake can totally be a cp to mk. All you have to do is learn to play like joker. When Joker is playing well he always has a grenade in his hand and that means I can't do ****. Every single one of my approaches will instead hurt me and he will shield it. Plus eventually I might think I can sprint in but then the mortal slide comes and hits me back out of the way. You have to play like a ***** but Snake totally cp's mk if you know how to do it.

Wario also can seriously cp mk. It helps that mk is one of the very few chars that doesn't have a grab release combo on the poor fat bast ard unless he is on the edge. But a super campy Wario that just runs around and only attacks smart. Like Quik on me in WI. He just jumps around and only throws out random d-airs until I actually attack him. The bite goes through almost everything mk has if you know how to time it (Quik ate my shuttle loop, tornado, f-tilt, and I think d-tilt.) Also he baits the d-smash by f-smashing through it which kills mk at very low percents. And then you can't forget that the fart is a free kill if mk is off the stage. Once again Wario has to play very smart but he can cp mk imo as well.

No excuses though, I admit he is broken. But the thing that I have come to realize is why would I stop playing him when others aren't going to do the same thing. I love my plumber but he kind of gets pummeled by mk being like 5 tiers away from him. If I am going to face mk's then I am at least going to do so with the char that I am the best with and unfortunately that is mk. And don't say that is everyone's best char because that isn't true. There are a lot of crappy mk's out there and I am at least decent with him....

 

[~GregDang!~]

Hey man, You gotta do what you gotta do. Please tell me there are games today. I wanna practice for Joker's Monthly. Also, Is anyone interested in SFIV side event?

 

[PortCity]

Razor: I'm going to counter pick your post .... notice how you have a paragraph to describe how Snake and Wario "CP" Metaknight. It takes only a few words for each to show how MK actually counter picks them. Snake = shuttle loop while off stage. Snake has NO option but to blow himself up and get much higher than MK, JUST to make it back on stage. Wario: Glide (to make up ground) ,Tornado and Spacing...enough said for that match up. Think about it like this, anytime a character offers you the option of recklessness and you can STILL win, there is a problem. That said, let me argue with myself a bit.

What is the case for banning Metaknight? In my experience, the reason people don't beat him is because they don't know what they are doing. I'll defend my statement if I have to, but I personally don't believe that this one character is so great that he trumps everything. He is good, but when smart tactics can kill this character at under 50% I just have a hard time being convinced. It actually takes work for most characters to beat him, but it has, can, and will be done until the end of time. No disrespect to any Metaknight players that I have faced (Blank, Razor, this random guy at the Ames tournament), but I personally don't fear him.

What I didn't realize then was the amount of effort people have to put in. Not only that, nowadays people know what they are doing against him and they STILL LOSE, There is no incentive to play anyone else. The risk you take playing Metaknight is dying early, but that isn't even a serious issue cause living until 130% with MK is doable and is plenty of time to take out a life and a half. The best arguement that Razor has is "everyone else is playing him, why should I stop". Though it isn't the most elegant argument, it holds. Until they ban him, Razor you have every right to play him. I will just talk noise the entire time, and even more when you lose with him :-D

 

[Kiwikomix]

Pika?

Nope

If you wanna use Pika and win, you have to have top tier secondaries, which would makes me wonder why you shouldn't just use the top tiers in the first place

The whole "they don't know how to play low tiers" mindset is nice, but once they figure out the matchup, you're boned

TBH I don't think Melee is that balanced... I agree that it's deeper than Brawl but that's to be expected since Brawl is one year old and Melee is eight...

Melee being an 8-year-old game makes me feel old

 

[Jakebudden]

UPDATE!

Sekou I like you.

I will be diversifying the Razor Portfolio.

I will still be spending much time with Mario and Metaknight.

I will be spending much more time with Marth and King DeDeDe

I will be picking up Wario.

Sekou and Andy I will see you Thursday!

Edit: Joker I am coming by today however it will be only for like an hour to 2 max. Love text me if you need a ride. I won't look at this again until like 5 so well after I have already been to Joker's.

 

[Uli]

both games are unbalanced to a certain extent
melee since it has tech skill you can use any char and do fine if your a smart player, idk if you will win but you will do good. i guess it balances the game a little but in the end top tiers win in big tournys. taj goes around playing mew2 and ****** people its too good XD

brawl from what i see it just a giant counter pick fest, you simply cannot use a certain char in a match up because that char counters that char so hard which i dislike. i played tyser puff with my G&W once and 3 stocked it because its that much in G&W favor even though tyser is worlds better than me at that game. brawl it seems like you HAVE to know how to play more than one char to do well in big tournys unless you play a mean MK. thank goodness you dont have to learn much tech skill just how to play matchups :3


dicks

 

[Kudou-kun]

Kudou - I think it's you I should talk to about twilight hack. Do you have any links handy to explain what all you can do with it besides brawl hax? If I bring my Wii down does it take long for you to hook me up?

i can hack it for u since i hacked sekku's wii when he came down a few weeks ago. all u really have to bring me is ur wii and a SD card for ur wii cause u need the SD card to run programs off of it.

Wii Brew is a good site for stuff if u dont get them from the homebrew channel, http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Main_Page

Hey man, You gotta do what you gotta do. Please tell me there are games today. I wanna practice for Joker's Monthly.

i might creep to joker's today but it depends on who's all goin and when.

I will still be spending much time with Mario and Metaknight.

I will be spending much more time with Marth and King DeDeDe

I will be picking up Wario.

that is some pretty do chars that ur gonna pick up there. im only gonna play wolf, snake and kirby from now on. i might pick more up on the way for CP purposes

both games are unbalanced to a certain extent
melee since it has tech skill you can use any char and do fine if your a smart player, idk if you will win but you will do good. i guess it balances the game a little but in the end top tiers win in big tournys. taj goes around playing mew2 and ****** people its too good XD

brawl from what i see it just a giant counter pick fest, you simply cannot use a certain char in a match up because that char counters that char so hard which i dislike. i played tyser puff with my G&W once and 3 stocked it because its that much in G&W favor even though tyser is worlds better than me at that game. brawl it seems like you HAVE to know how to play more than one char to do well in big tournys unless you play a mean MK. thank goodness you dont have to learn much tech skill just how to play matchups :3


dicks

well melee to brawl imo went from tech skills to counter picking and match ups. its not that bad i think

 

[Blank Mauser]

The thing about MK is that all of his good approaches/attacks even when whiffed/blocked/whatever leave both players at a neutral position(Neither has frame advantage), but considering MK's moveset who really has the advantage there? Metaknight.

Melee had crouch canceling, aerial momentum and powershielding, and the one char that did have comparable range and priority was more baitable and less unpunishable. MK makes powershielding kind of useless because of his multi-hit moves, and those moves also make spot dodging riskier than the reward.

You have to stay one step ahead of MK to win, so really the only counter to MK is smart playing. Because he can be played in so many different ways, learning the matchup means kind of less with him. You have to conform more to the player than the character in this case.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

UPDATE!

I will learn to powershield everything.
I will pick up G&W.
I will always ban FD.

AND keep your grimy mitts off Wario, Jake.

 

[Bonehimer]

When I first saw Wario I thought he was gonna be one of my mains, but then he farted.

 

[Uli]

on a random note i have no idea who is who from MO on the boards lol
brawl went from less tech skill to CP (lol)

read books to beat MK, sounds awesome

 

[gantrain05]

i dont know, honestly, i think if a MK is just patient and waits for mistakes there isn't really a way to even touch him, honestly jake the only reason i think i do well against your MK is because we will actually approach each other, but soon as u start playing patient there really isn't anything i could possibly do, every approach will fail, projectiles do **** unless your snake. I mean i can rack up damage easy enough with peach, but when it comes to a kill move its almost ****ed impossible to land unless you are the one to mess up.

 

[sluys]

Jake - Leave Wario alone! You'll learn what moves don't actually have hitboxes; they're just there for intimidation. But in all seriousness, if you have fun with MK you might as well specialize in him. You're already one of the top 5 mks in the Midwest by my estimation. Plus Razor just sounds like a MK name.

Kudou - I'll try to find my sd card then, thanks for the link.

Uli - Kit is Brown Paper Sack = Kit, LouBega = Jordan. Combined they are Team Real Team.

Joker - What are your thoughts on planking?

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Wario also can seriously cp mk. It helps that mk is one of the very few chars that doesn't have a grab release combo on the poor fat bast ard unless he is on the edge. But a super campy Wario that just runs around and only attacks smart. Like Quik on me in WI. He just jumps around and only throws out random d-airs until I actually attack him. The bite goes through almost everything mk has if you know how to time it (Quik ate my shuttle loop, tornado, f-tilt, and I think d-tilt.) Also he baits the d-smash by f-smashing through it which kills mk at very low percents. And then you can't forget that the fart is a free kill if mk is off the stage. Once again Wario has to play very smart but he can cp mk imo as well.

Here is how to fight a campy Wario:

Bite is slower than f-tilt and d-tilt. You tilted INTO his bite, he didn't bite your tilts. Rising tornado beats bite, so just tap B. F-smash's super armor comes out slower than d-smash, so that only works if you fall for the bait.
Shuttle loop is pretty bad against him, though. D-air and bite beats it.

Being super-campy isn't that great,. F-air, B-air, N-air, and U-air spam outlast air dodge, plus ALL of MK's moves outrange ALL of Wario's. Even N-air! Attack with your sword, not your mask.

It's an even match-up. Neither Wario's and MK's tricks work very well.
But, I mean, if you're used to MK, I bet an even match-up FEELS like a counterpick.

Just making my fight harder next time.

 

[Quik17]

Just thought I'd randomly come in here and join in on the Wario vs. MK discussion

The matchup is in Wario's favor 55-45 IMO. It sounds crazy but I think Wario is probably the only bad matchup for MK. (Snake is debatable) B.P.S. was right in saying that most of MKs moves outrange Wario's moves, but this does not make up for the fact that Wario kills MK so easily, it's sometimes ridiculous. The F-Smash and up-air can kill between 80-90 percent and the fart can even take MK out at percents as low as 40!!!! Racking up the little damage that you need is also not too bad because Wario's d-air beats out MK's tornado, and bite can really do some damage in this matchup.

Also, Razor's MK is a beast. Probably 3rd best MK in the MW.

 

[sluys]

Jake - Dair Wario off his bike instead of waiting for shuttle loop opportunities. Shuttle loop will rarely hit but if you go for gimps with dair you'll do much better.

Quik - Don't you just love looking at damage given vs taken against MK? If you can hit those 40-70% kill farts every match is in your favor. P.S. Nice placing in WI, hopefully I can find vids of your matches.

I agree with kit that it's about even. I don't mind the matchup compared to the grab release shenanigans of others.

 

[Jakebudden]

Well thanks for the love everyone. Quik the first match is more what I am capable of and if you play at an Iowa tourney I have cp's that make me really tough to take a 2 out of 3 against. I fell apart in our second and third matches. I'll happily take the 3rd best in Midwest though. Who do you think is better?

Yeh all I was arguing was that is about even and that Wario CAN cp metaknight. It is sick how fast mk dies against wario. Plus unless you land a shuttle loop right at the edge of the stage Wario isn't that easy to kill with Mk. But it is a fun matchup for sure.

Andy you are crazy man you can't grab release warlock punch.... I tried it.....

Quik you should make an effort to come to an Iowa monthly sometime. Kansas is gonna be at this one on the 4th of April.

 

[sluys]

Andy you are crazy man you can't grab release warlock punch.... I tried it.....

They released a patch last week to fix it

Yes I'm crazy. I meant Fsmash but Warlock Punch is so cool I said it by accident.

 

[Zicore]

Well thanks for the love everyone. Quik the first match is more what I am capable of and if you play at an Iowa tourney I have cp's that make me really tough to take a 2 out of 3 against. I fell apart in our second and third matches. I'll happily take the 3rd best in Midwest though. Who do you think is better?

Yeh all I was arguing was that is about even and that Wario CAN cp metaknight. It is sick how fast mk dies against wario. Plus unless you land a shuttle loop right at the edge of the stage Wario isn't that easy to kill with Mk. But it is a fun matchup for sure.

Andy you are crazy man you can't grab release warlock punch.... I tried it.....

Quik you should make an effort to come to an Iowa monthly sometime. Kansas is gonna be at this one on the 4th of April.

Overswarm and Judge.

Seriously, why did you think you were going to lose to joker when you beat him 2-0 in pools? I'm confused?

 

[PortCity]

Please don't fall for the hype. Wario can BEAT Metaknight, but Wario is not a COUNTER PICK for Metaknight. Ya'll mixing up the words "beat" and "counter pick". Counter pick implies Wario has the advantage, not goes even, which is what people in here are saying. In other news, someone posted this and it pretty much sums up my gripe about controller ports.

[=== P1+P2 vs. P3+P4 ===]

*Team 1*
absolute Grab Priority (both)
absolute Transform advantage (both)
absolute Suicide advantage (both)

*Team 2*
absolute FSA advantage (both)

[=== P1+P3 vs. P2+P4 ===]

*Team 1*
P1 has absolute Grab Priority, Transform, and Suicide advantage
P3 has FSA when grabbing P2, Grab Priority/Transform/Suicide over P4

*Team 2*
P4 has absolute FSA advantage
P2 has FSA when grabbing P1, Grab Priority/Transform/Suicide over P3

[=== P1+P4 vs. P2+P3 ===]

*Team 1*
P1 has absolute Grab Priority, Transform, and Suicide advantage
P4 has absolute FSA advantage

*Team 2*
P2 and P3 have FSA over P1, Grab/Transform/Suicide over P4"
-Jewdo


Why on earth would you give a team absolute advantage in both effects (Our current 1221 setup.)? The reason it think it is actually cheap is, when Razor and Joker use it. Joker gets grab advantage, which he uses effectively. And Razor gets "Faux Super Armor" during grabs which allows Metaknight to stay alive longer. I don't really care about the up-throw into mine stuff, but I do care that if I grab Metaknight in a 2 on 1, all Joker has to do is f-smash us both and I go flying. It only makes sense to divide the "advantages". What do you guys think? I could deal with Metaknight having that FSA crap if i didn't have to ALSO worry about being grabbed to hell by Joker. Plus it would make me feel a little better knowing Sluys had a little advantage on the grabbing to compensate for Metaknight being able to grab and eat a f-smash by anyone and stand still.

Edit: Looking at the options, it appears we play by the one that is the most unfair. The concept of "absolute" can be abused. P4 knows without a doubt..."i'm not going to fly" and P1 knows "hey i'm going to beat anyone at a simultaneous grab". P2 has to remember ok I can't play grab games with P1 but i can play them with P4, then again i can't get hit when i'm in a grab against P4 but i can against P1.

 

[LouBega]

Overswarm and Judge.

Seriously, why did you think you were going to lose to joker when you beat him 2-0 in pools? I'm confused?

when you play the same people all the time and matches go both ways it's hard to feel confident about beating that person in a tournament match.

at least that's how i feel when i have to play cook/kit in a match.