Data Invincibility and armor list

[Jaxas]

Hmmm this is very strange. I wonder if any other moves have this "ungrabable" property. I always thought grab immunity on certain moves would be a cool concept. Maybe we'll find other moves like it.

So I read the other post earlier, and today on FG I ended up fighting a Link who shot an arrow (don't remember the charge), but my grab went through them. I was definitely close enough, but it just didn't grab; not sure if it was the same thing or not, but maybe try checking that next?

 

[Lavani]

More stuff:


utilt: Legs intangible


ftilt: Fist intangible


ftilt: Arms intangible
dtilt: Arm intangible
utilt: Arm intangible
dsmash: Arms intangible
usmash: Arms intangible
upB grounded: Arms intangible, seems to have heavy armor rather than superarmor as I can't take damage from Gooey Bombs without getting knocked back at any part of the attack.
upB airborne: Arms intangible, fully invincible at start


Jab combo: Tail intangible


utilt: Legs intangible


usmash: Arm intangible

 

[KERO]

So I read the other post earlier, and today on FG I ended up fighting a Link who shot an arrow (don't remember the charge), but my grab went through them. I was definitely close enough, but it just didn't grab; not sure if it was the same thing or not, but maybe try checking that next?

I tried testing it with Duck Hunt (has a super low grab range) and Mega Man (grab does not last long and comes out quickly), and Link was grabbed both during a fully charged Arrow and uncharged Arrow's ending lag.

 

[Jaxas]

I tried testing it with Duck Hunt (has a super low grab range) and Mega Man (grab does not last long and comes out quickly), and Link was grabbed both during a fully charged Arrow and uncharged Arrow's ending lag.

All right, I suppose I just had more space between us than I thought or something; sorry about that!

 

[KERO]

All right, I suppose I just had more space between us than I thought or something; sorry about that!

Ehh, things happen, and you're fine. If there's anything that seems strange, it's probably worth checking out since there's plenty we still don't know about the game, so don't hesitate to bring anything up.

 

[Shaya]

How you testing body part intangibility @ Lavani ?

Doesn't surprise that some of these moves do, but to not be able to hit DK's arms during his ftilt ? It feels like something I've done with aerials all the time, do you mean just when the hitboxes are out?

So yeah interested in your testing methods/conclusions.

 

[Lavani]

How you testing body part intangibility Lavani?

Just smacking around Bob-ombs and Gooey Bombs with the respective attacks.

 

[Shaya]

So... DK ftilting a bom-omb explodes it without him getting hit? Goo-ey bombing it causes it to explode and DK doesn't get hit by the explosion until the radius reaches the rest of his body?

 

[Lavani]

Correct. He can safely hit Bob-ombs with any of the mentioned attacks and he doesn't take damage from them as long as the rest of his body isn't touched by the explosion.

 

[Big O]

Most of DK's moves involving his arms have had intangibility since Brawl.

 

[Luigi player]

Hmm well I made posts about some disjointed body parts already so if someone's interested:

DKs disjointed moves:
This time DK has disjointed moves. Here's a list of moves I came up with with which you can destroy bob-ombs without getting hit:
- ftilt
- dtilt
- uptilt (above and behind him)

- fair (only when the hitbox is right in front of him)
- upair (falling upair)

- dsmash (behind and in front of him)
- upsmash (above him)

- neutralB (only non-fully charged!! fist/forearm seem to be intangible)
- sideB
- upB (grounded: in front of him ; aerial: left and right spread hands)
- downB (obviously)

Bowser was the first one that I tested and found out something very interesting:

Bowser has a lot of disjointed moves. Or should I say "invincible parts of his body" during some moves. You can still hit them, but Bowser won't take damage or knockback.

The most obvious is the fsmash. His legs and feet are invincible. You can destroy bob ombs with it without getting injured. You can even hit through projectiles and some moves that bounce off of something (like Greninja / Link dair) bounce off of it even though Bowser doesn't care at all. Think of it as kinda like Marths sword I guess?

Bowser has this disjointedness on these moves (I could destroy bob ombs with them without getting hit):
- jab
- ftilt
- dtilt
- uptilt (when the bomb comes falling from above)

- upair

- fsmash (legs and feet don't have a hurtbox)
- upsmash (when the bob omb comes from above; as soon as Bowser jumps up (aka you let go of the A button after charging) the bomb gets destroyed and Bowser won't get hit (no matter how late I let go of A!!!))
- dsmash (you have to be pretty close, but not too close to the bomb)

His upsmash was very interesting. It seems like his hurtbox stays on the ground like if he's not jumping - it even seems like it's shrinking a lot (way smaller than Bowser looks). It must be almost impossible to beat Bowsers upsmash from above, or even trade with it.

The only armor he has (that I know of) is the little heavy armor he has all the time, which is mentioned as a "tip" in the game (which only seems to occur when hit by multijabs or Megamans Megabuster melons).
It doesn't seem like Bowser has any other armor, his grounded upB still clashes with moves though.

Remember my post talking about Bowsers disjointed moves? I was trying to tell people how ridiculous upsmash is, but maybe you guys already knew.
I made a short video to showcase it a little: http://youtu.be/FHrSkvKKC9o

 

[Shaya]

Hmm, I always try to space around such moves with nair, or transcended priority swipe them -
I'm assuming the intangibility only applies during the hitboxes being out.

I think more people need to be aware of the intangibility of the up-b, people complain about the cyclone one/whatever, and people probably are trying to hit DK's arms rather than centre body to punish it.

 

[Kosaki]

Bowser Jr has some super armor during his side B, he doesn't flinch if he gets hit on the car hurtbox.

 

[Rakurai]

Sonic's Burning Spin Dash has some kind of weirdly specific invincibility on it.

You can go straight through any sort of explosive item or a bumper completely unscathed, but it interacts with seemingly every other attack in the game normally.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Superamor:
Mii Brawler:3rd neutralB (after the spin, right before the hitbox)

Wait really!? This move already hits harder than Falcon Punch, but it also has superamor?

Or maybe this means Falcon Punch actually has some super armor as well?

 

[Kosaki]

Standard Falcon Punch has some super armor on the last frames before the hit, and I believe, some frames during the hit.

 

[RT]

*EDIT* Never mind, I'm dumb.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

ZSS grounded up-b seems to have some invincibility stuff going on.

 

[Lavani]

ZSS grounded up-b seems to have some invincibility stuff going on.

Man I completely forgot to mention this and it was what spurred me to write up my previous posts to boot.

The invincibility lasts from startup until the second blue afterimage appears (about 1/3 the jump's arc, just before the apex).

 

[Captain Norris]

Wow great thread.

 

[S_B]

Bowser's Usmash is a special case...

http://smashboards.com/threads/info-about-the-shellguard-in-up-smash.378815/

Here's what I know about the autoguard. I may not be 100% correct on this, but this is what I've noticed.

• The autoguard frames kick in slightly before Usmash's hitbox comes out.
• There is a few frames of vulnerability between releasing a charged Usmash and the autoguard kicking in.
• The autoguard frames seem to end as soon as your Usmash hitbox ends. I could be wrong, but I've never seen the autoguard activate after wiffed Usmashes ever.
• If an attack hits your shell before hitting your body, that hit is negated by the autoguard, so it cannot hit your body afterwards.
• If an attack hits your body before hitting your shell, obviously you get hit.
• If an attack hits both your body and your shell at the same time, the game treats the attack as being autoguarded. This can be seen when Bowser Usmashes multiple Bomb Ombs at once.
• The autoguard hurtbox is actually larger than the hitbox of Bowser's Usmash. This was probably done to prevent complications where the autoguard won't trigger against spaced attacks. While this is overall a very good thing, this is also why Greninja can Dair, hit your autoguard, and jump away before getting hit. lol

For the record, Bowser can Usmash four explosive crates at once and be COMPLETELY unscathed by them.

On the frame where the "shellguard" kicks in, no matter how many attacks hit Bowser's shell, they'll all be negated (even if they hit his shell AND body at the same time). However, an attack that hits JUST his body will hit him as normal.

 

[Blenderer]

Hello, I'd like to contribute!

Possible Villager Armor:

I was in For Glory versus a young link and twice he hit me on my head with a dair while I was using Villager's down smash and I didn't get thrown very far, I took all of the damage- but got flung a meter or so.

 

[Luigi player]

Alright I've updated the OP with some stuff:

-) Heavy Armor
Bowser: (all the time) fixed - heavy armor isn't only grounded (he has it in the air too)! And it depends on the knockback he receives (for example he goes through Luigis Fireballs until about 70 %, after that he flinches, because the knockback get's bigger the more % you have)
Bowser Jr.: sideB (heavy armor only on his clown car)
Everyone: while being grounded (like from the pitfall item, DKs sideB, etc.)

-) Added the small "Blocking-hitbox" section inside the Others category. With Palutenas dash attack, bair; Gaws usmash and Bowsers usmash.

-) Added many superarmor frames and DKs aerial upB invincibility frames (many characters are still missing though). Thanks to Big O and Thinkaman for the Data.

Info:
* I'm not going to add all the "partial invincibility" stuff. Maybe someone else wants to make it, or myself once we know all the parts that are invincible (Thankamans Pastebin with the character framedata seems to have most of the moves that have them already listed, but we/I don't know the exact body parts). Big O has a list for DK in the DK boards.

* for now I will not be looking for framedata for custom moves (just listing the moves is enough, unless you want to provide me with the data with a structured post with the exact special (1-3; 1 being the default one))

ZSS grounded up-b seems to have some invincibility stuff going on.

Not sure where/how you got this, but she doesn't flash to indicate this.

Hello, I'd like to contribute!

Possible Villager Armor:

I was in For Glory versus a young link and twice he hit me on my head with a dair while I was using Villager's down smash and I didn't get thrown very far, I took all of the damage- but got flung a meter or so.

Afaik the only time characters have reduced knockback is when they're grounded. Maybe you only had low % or he hit you with a weak hit.

 

[Lavani]

I must've been drunk when I replied to the ZSS thing, I swear that said downB when I quoted it

 

[Masonomace]

This is a slight contribution, but Shulk's Neutral-B Customs 1 & 2 (Decisive Arts & Hyper Arts) have a small invincibility window during the Monado Art's self-activation in the same way for his Default Monado Arts. You may test it for double confirmation, but the amount of invincibility frames could differ between the Custom Monado Arts.

 

[Luigi player]

I've seen (and now tested) Jigglys dashattack to block with and then override other moves quite often, and now I can finally confirm that it does indeed have a "block hitbox".

Palutena has heavy armor during her upsmash. She can eat up Luigis Fireballs and not flinch during her move.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

No to both.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Also these "block hitboxes" are just invincibility frames.

 

[Lavani]

Jigglypuff's dash attack doesn't cancel after clanking, and at 12% it's got plenty of power to barrel through things with. I'd imagine you're confusing that with invincibility.

 

[Luigi player]

No to both.

Edit: Okay, I've looked closer now and you were right. My bad. I was really sure Palutena didn't flinch. >_<

Also these "block hitboxes" are just invincibility frames.

But they don't flash like with normal invincibility, so it must be something special... Do you know if the characters can't be grabbed out of these frames?

Edit: I see it now. Flashing is intangibility and the others are normal invincibility where attacks get "blocked".

Hmm.. the flashing doesn't seem to indicate intangibility. Maybe they forgot to add flashing to some moves or just didn't want to add it...

Well anyway I've put the "blocking hitbox" section now to the invincibility one and renamed it to normal invincibility (without flashing).

 

[lijero13ss]

Hi just wanted some clarification on Ganons Warlock Punch. It says it has superarmor which means it takes no knockback. However I remember recently I faced a Ganon that was using the Warnock Punch and in the middle its charge, I ran up to him and Up B'd him as Luigi. And it KO'd him. Just hoping to see if I'm understanding it all correctly. Thanks

 

[Lavani]

Warlock Punch doesn't have superarmor if used in the air or reversed. There are also small windows at the beginning and end of the startup that lack superarmor.

 

[lijero13ss]

I don't think it was reversed, and it was grounded for sure. I'll go test this out I guess. And it was in the middle of his punch charge up, so it was definitely during the superarmor phase

 

[Katakiri]

Kirby's fully-charged Hammer Flip has full super armor while the hitbox is out but only on the ground. Take a swing at a smart bomb or hocotate bomb in training mode, he'll take damage but won't flinch grounded but take regular knockback in the air.

 

[Takehiko]

Have you already tested custom moves? If so could the OP please update the post.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Does Heavy Armor work based on knockback incurred? That's what I would've guessed.

Little Mac's Neutral-B has a sort of damage-based armor, like Snake's Up-B in Brawl. He'll get sent flying if a move deals 9% or more, but he can tear through any number of moves that deal 8% or less.

 

[Mariofan13]

Ike has Super Armor during the charging and executing of his sindeB 2.

There's also equipment which gives his owner Super armor during charging a smash attack.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

When Wario eats an explosive, he has an animation tied to a powerful attack on Frame 19 when his stomach is distended. I cannot confirm this in Smash 4 right now, but in Brawl you had invincibility from frames 1-19 in that animation, so it is likely that the same happens in Smash 4.

 

[Luigi player]

Does Heavy Armor work based on knockback incurred? That's what I would've guessed.

Afaik, Yoshi, Bowser and maybe Diddys upB armor are heavy armor that gets broken by stronger knockback (only Yoshi really needs more, the others are broken easily).

Most others should have a set % they can take. Unless they changed that for Smash4. Like you said Snakes upB in Brawl had like ~7% heavy armor. So it was never broken by attacks that do less %, but always by attacks that do more

And yeah, Wario does indeed still have invincibility while eating an explosive, dunno about the frames though.

 

[Luigi player]

Small update:

I tried to test heavy armor a little more precisely.

There are some who get broken if they're hit with moves that have at least a certain amount of knockback and some who are broken if a move does enough %.
(For example "<= 6 %" means the heavy armor should be beaten if a move does 7 or more %.)
Keep in mind that these % aren't 100% correct, because there probably are decimals that I don't know about. But it's close enough for now to help.

Here are the results:

Heavy armor:

Everyone: while being burried (like from the pitfall item, DKs sideB, etc. | knockback-based)
Bowser: all the time (only for very very weak moves | knockback-based)
Bowser Jr.: sideB (only on clown car | %-based (<~ 6 %))
Charizard: sideB (starts at about halfway through until the end | %-based (<= 15 %))
Donkey Kong: during the cargo hold (knockback-based)
Little Mac: neutralB (while charging it up, and if fully charged: while moving forward (until he reaches ~half the way he goes | %-based (<= 8 %))
Yoshi: during his doublejump (knockback-based)
Wario: sideB (while he's on his bike | knockback-based)


Also added Marios upB invincibility (frame 3-?); Dr. Mario doesn't have it.

Edit: Mini-Update:

I've tested some starting-invincibility frames:

Little Mac: upB 1-?
Marth/Lucina: upB ground: 4-?, aerial: 1-?
Villager: B 5-?
Jigglypuff: downB 1-(>24)