Guide Intro To Samus + Character Match-Up's

[Corigames]

Finishing my pathetic match-up chart is the only thing I've got right now, but it's so hard to do... I don't know why. I get all excited and then, when I come here, I lose all my drive and I can only do one real one if I still do any at all. It's nothing like critiquing videos.

Also, Lumpy is suppose to be filming stuff for the thread.

 

[Dew Rag]

i think phanna's match up chart is pretty acurrate as far as i'm concerned (sorry for putting more hurt on the pain)

i would like to invite everyone in this samus subforum to come to SMYM9 cuz I would not like to be the only samus there and I have never met any good samus players

 

[rhan]

Phanna's matchup chart is basically when the two players are even in skill. It just shows who's at an advantage. With what Corey is doing is giving details on what you can do to these characters or what you need to do (watch out for) when playing against these sort of characters.

Good **** on doing specific matchup Corey. They all seem pretty accurate.

 

[Corigames]

Thank you. And, hey, if anyone has anything they know that they would like me to add, please just post it. If I agree, then **** yeah I'll post it up there too as a littleL

* This is a note from "rhan": Corey is an *** and forgot to say you can one shot jigglypuff if you mash up and down on the D-Pad while she's in hitstun from a 3/4 charged shot.

Then I go, "Holy ****, how did I forget that very important part of that thing I was doing?" Then there you go. Everybody knows a thing or two about Samus, but not everything. I hate to admit it, but I don't know everything about her in melee. So, please, post!

 

[rhan]

You pretty much have the higher tiers done pretty well. I know a bit about Ganon if help is needed in that area. Sometimes with Ganon it all depends on stage. It's best to fight on a big stage (Dreamland 64, FD etc.) but if you happen to be fighting somewhere like Yoshi's Story it's rather difficult. Aganst Ganon at big stages, it's all about out camping him and then getting close to hit him where it hurts. But on smaller stages you have to be on guard at all times. Most Ganons use their aerials to attack their opponet. To counter this Up B out of shield alot to rack up his damage. Then try to finish off with a D-Smash, F-Smash, Dash Attack on stage and while he's off stage Utilt, edge hog.

Also I fight/play a few low tier players offten. I know a bit about the end of the tier list so if help is needed there, I'm always willing to help.

 

[Dew Rag]

up b out of shield doesn't work well against good ganons, they will almost always space things correctly so ur not close enough to up b out of shield

i would suggest using lots of tilts, uairs, nairs and projectiles
i would highly suggest not using grabs as they are heavily punished against ganon
and don't get hit : \

 

[rhan]

The reason I said up B out of shield on a tiny stage is because that the ganon is basically going to try to SHFFL aerials mainly the entire time. So when that happens just sheild the attack then up B out of shield. It's easy damage.

Samus' tilts are good to use though. Ftilt for me mainly because it's a semi quick hit and it has some range/priority to it. As memory serves me I think you can ftilt Ganon's down B on the ground and cancel out the hit. But I can't remember.

 

[Tyser]

Ill probably be at SMYM, DewRag. :D I like to think Im decent at Samus.

As for UpBing Ganondorf . . . I dont do it. He goes no where and you just get fisted every single time. And we all know Samus doesnt like getting fisted.

 

[Watty]

yay samus players going to SMYM! I have my own opinion on ganon samus and stage selection which is weird. for instance for hte most part i dont think samus is bad against ganon on YS if done correctly but than again its my style that makes it work so it might not work for everyone else

 

['Fro]

yay samus players going to SMYM! I have my own opinion on ganon samus and stage selection which is weird. for instance for hte most part i dont think samus is bad against ganon on YS if done correctly but than again its my style that makes it work so it might not work for everyone else

Care to elaborate? Although I'll agree on this one: I don't mind Ganon at all.

What I do is carefully rack up damage on him with projectile, n-airs, tilts, and occasional up-b out of sheild. If he messes up his spacing, I d-smash him. It's especially useful if it gets him off stage, because it stops the down-b from being useful. Another thing is that I will grab Ganon if I see a clear-cut chance, because d-throw sets up some good stuff on him. A last thing, and probably what helps me the most, is that I n-air 'Dorf ifhe jumps out if his sheild. It immediately stops any aerials he tries to pull out, as long as you move faster.

 

[Geist]

My best weapons vs Ganon are tilts, especially ftilt. There aren't many options out of shield or approach-wise if the Ganon is really good at spacing, and missiles get ***** by jab and bair. =[
In a small stage, I just attempt to generalize EVERYTHING around my spacing. The problem is that Ganon is at an advantage above and below samus, and he can gimp the **** out of your recovery with tipman spikes...
If you ^B out of shield, you better hope you have hugs's spacing, because you'll explode in a fiery death if you mess up.

One thing that can leave ganon at a disadvantage is shield pressure behind him. His only decent options are bair out of shield and rolling. Either can be punished relatively easily.

If either you or him manage to get hit though, you can each lead eachother into some pretty beastly combos.

 

[AIDS]

I will make a Gaanon guide soon. I personally love Yoshi's. It is an amazing samus stage shockingly. Most people don't understand how **** it is for her and still use it as a counter pick in tournaments. lol! Works for me!

 

[Geist]

Oh god I got ***** in Yoshi's and Stadium.
I can understand how Yoshi's can go either way though, It's easier to space because Samus can have more control over the stage because of platforms and stuff, but you die at like 50%, and Samus can't use her recovery to her advantage.

I just get ***** in Stadium though LOL

 

[Tyser]

Nice new sig AIDS. That Samus pic is the same one that is used in my sig :D. That ZSS pic in there is hawt also.

 

[DrewB008]

yoshis story is amazing for samus, watty 3 stocked my ganon there

and fox has less room to run away from you there, thats always a plus

 

[Corigames]

*yay, conversations pertaining to helping other people with Samus are actually occuring in my thread. Continue

 

[Geist]

lol you live in West Virginia.

Anyways, does anyone know of any *effective* recoveries vs ganon, or is it basically ledgehop bair spike to death all the time? The stomp>>>>>>>>screw attack >_<

 

[Watty]

u mix up the grapple up b u sometimes up b on the stage at him if u know hes waiting for it just gotta keep em guessing u also tech the down air =)

 

[Geist]

u mix up the grapple up b u sometimes up b on the stage at him if u know hes waiting for it just gotta keep em guessing u also tech the down air =)

Yeah, I'll need to work on my unpredictability. :]
It's harder than it sounds when you're getting edgeguarded by one of the world's best ganons though </3

Teching Dair can be a beast sometimes. Electric moves have like 1.5x the hitstun, and it's ****ing bat**** insane knockback. One thing I really really have to work on is smash DIing towards the stage, or smash DIing in general :[
no johns lol...

 

[Corigames]

Try this.
When you grapple the edge, you can usually immediately wall jump off of it. When you do that, it can throw their spacing off pretty bad. Then, to mix it up, you can do the wall jump but "cancel" is by dropping a bomb, do one bomb jump to gain a little height back, and then screw attack up. By using this you can really F with their timing.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

so... does falcon counter samus?

i can edge guard him pretty good... but i get combod WAY too easily.
(maybe my friend is extremely good at comboing floaties)

 

[Corigames]

Yes, Falcon is very good against Samus in the fact that he can combo her to hell in back.

However, I wouldn't say he is directly a counter, as that Samus can kill him pretty easy just by bumping him off the stage... and keeping him there.

 

[-taco]

Yes, Falcon is very good against Samus in the fact that he can combo her to hell in back.

However, I wouldn't say he is directly a counter, as that Samus can kill him pretty easy just by bumping him off the stage... and keeping him there.

Don't forget the Up-Tilt after you knock em' out of the stage.

 

[Tyser]

I have a super tough time against Falcons and Marths especially. Match up is ********.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yeah. falcon and marth can just keep combos going like mad men.

for edge guarding falcon, i just utilt the edge or jump out/run off nair. haha
i don't really know anything else.

 

[Tyser]

Yeah, all I do is Utilt Falcons when they is off stage now. As for Marth, I dunno. I usually kill Marth's with Utilt or Ftilt :S but that damn sword is humongous so spacing seems impossible for me.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i would just play really defensive and spam. lol

but that's not going to take you very far.

 

[Corigames]

Yeah, all I do is Utilt Falcons when they is off stage now. As for Marth, I dunno. I usually kill Marth's with Utilt or Ftilt :S but that damn sword is humongous so spacing seems impossible for me.

Drop a bomb off the edge while he's recovering. He will either double jump to try to go over it, or will run into it while doing his Up B, messing up most any Marth's Up B spacing. Some will freak out and do it again immediately, causing them to go up too early giving you a free hit. If they drop too low, well... they die.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

Drop a bomb off the edge while he's recovering. He will either double jump to try to go over it, or will run into it while doing his Up B, messing up most any Marth's Up B spacing. Some will freak out and do it again immediately, causing them to go up too early giving you a free hit. If they drop too low, well... they die.

i really like bombdrop edge guarding... but it really only seems to work when my opponent messes up. lol

 

[Corigames]

It's better than getting hit by Marth's sword and doing nothing while he comes up from the bottom. If you are feeling particularly risky, you can try to FF off the edge and Bair him as he comes up, but then you are going for luck that they won't tech it! So, it's definitely better, at least for me.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

It's better than getting hit by Marth's sword and doing nothing while he comes up from the bottom. If you are feeling particularly risky, you can try to FF off the edge and Bair him as he comes up, but then you are going for luck that they won't tech it! So, it's definitely better, at least for me.

yeah. i guess. i'll prolly never play against a marth as samus again LOL.
i'll just go peach for that match up.

 

[Tyser]

I still dont get how to approach Marths. Whenever I jab, I get grabbed usually. When they dash in with a Nair I just sit in my shield and I dont do much because I dunno what to do. And when they go on a Fair frenzy I just get ***** since I cant space out when the Marth is in rage mode. Any tips? I never can seem to land a Ftilt anymore against Marth players, although I fight the same Marth people all the time, maybe theyre just too adapted to my style or something lol.

And whenever I fight against Falcons, I tend to ALWAYS wavedash back into Ftilt/Dsmash any time they approach and its starting to not work at all anymore, I just get Knee'd in the head (Damn Falcon players and their random throwing Knees). The Falcon people I play against are starting to hit me often now a day and I dunno how else to defend against a flying Knee / Nair besides shielding and I cant do much out of that shield except UpB I think.

 

['Fro]

I still dont get how to approach Marths. Whenever I jab, I get grabbed usually. When they dash in with a Nair I just sit in my shield and I dont do much because I dunno what to do. And when they go on a Fair frenzy I just get ***** since I cant space out when the Marth is in rage mode. Any tips? I never can seem to land a Ftilt anymore against Marth players, although I fight the same Marth people all the time, maybe theyre just too adapted to my style or something lol.

And whenever I fight against Falcons, I tend to ALWAYS wavedash back into Ftilt/Dsmash any time they approach and its starting to not work at all anymore, I just get Knee'd in the head (Damn Falcon players and their random throwing Knees). The Falcon people I play against are starting to hit me often now a day and I dunno how else to defend against a flying Knee / Nair besides shielding and I cant do much out of that shield except UpB I think.

It definitely sounds like you need to change your game plan a bit. If you play these people a lot, surely there's something in their gameplay you can exploit, right?

In any case, for Marth, here's what I can say for some of the things you mentioned:
1) F-air frenzies: If they're careless, you can wavedash in close (inside the sweet-spot of the f-air) and cc d-smash. Of course, if you're talking about if you're hit by one f-air and get comboed, I can't help you there.
2) Jab Marth from behind, and use the jab-crouch-jab to sheild pressure.
3) As weak as they look against Marth, use missiles to force reactions, and act accordingly. See what they do when you try to follow up the missiles, mixing it up by grabbing them if they sheild it.

Falcon:
1) DON'T D-SMASH HIS SHEILD! Free shffl'd aerials (likely to be knees) will come at you otherwise!
2) Defending against Falcon is a *****.... He can punish the up-b even when hit by it. The n-air, however, can be a bit of lifesaver against him if you can anticpate him and hit him before he hits you. Missiles can create some movement limitations on Falcon (although, not that effective because of his speed) but at least they present a threat if he's hit by one.
3) Vary up your wavedashes and don't make them your be-all end-all reaction to Falcon's pressure. You need to use other tools so that you can throw in the d-smash when they don't really expect it. Also work on timing your moves so that they don't expect when you attack every time.

 

[Tyser]

Thanks dude. Ill keep this info in mind.

 

[Corigames]

I still dont get how to approach Marths. Whenever I jab, I get grabbed usually. When they dash in with a Nair I just sit in my shield and I dont do much because I dunno what to do. And when they go on a Fair frenzy I just get ***** since I cant space out when the Marth is in rage mode. Any tips? I never can seem to land a Ftilt anymore against Marth players, although I fight the same Marth people all the time, maybe theyre just too adapted to my style or something lol.

Marth is going to get you down. He's one tough lady... and by lady, I mean woman, girl, ****** post op, tomboy, etc.

The best thing I can tell anyone about Marth is trying to dodge and punish him. He is almost always going to out range you, and your projectiles can be stopped by almost any of his moves without any need for timing. It's like trying to learn how to play hot hands competitively. If you pull away too fast or too slow you will get hit. You can't win if you react in the wrong way. However, if you react at the right time, you can dodge his attacks and then start slapping his. Just time a dodge or shield into a tilt. If you always react, you will not only pick up on his offensive style, he will never pick up on yours until it's too late.

I know this can't be successfully pulled off 100%, and it takes a long time to get down, it's much better than grinding yourself against a wall trying to figure something that can penetrate his moves while in the short constraint of a time and stock limit of a match.

And whenever I fight against Falcons, I tend to ALWAYS wavedash back into Ftilt/Dsmash any time they approach and its starting to not work at all anymore, I just get Knee'd in the head (Damn Falcon players and their random throwing Knees). The Falcon people I play against are starting to hit me often now a day and I dunno how else to defend against a flying Knee / Nair besides shielding and I cant do much out of that shield except UpB I think.

I went through the same problem. However, my friend was polite enough to tell me the problem. As Falcon, he can approach with either a Nair or Fair. These are "safe" approaches for him because they last a while and stay in front of him. If you wavedash back as Samus, you will still, most likely, get hit by something. If you put up your shield, it will get hit and then you will be in shield stun while he has a chance to grab you.

The best way to keep a falcon away is to either WD forward with the shield up (this will stop the first kick of the Nair from hitting you or WD back while Fsmashing. I also tried standing still and Fsmashing or shielding, but both of the timings for those moves don't fit the situation. By just Fsmashing, you usually trade with the strong part of the knee instead of punching his legs out. By just shielding, his spacing will be fine enough to L-cancel into a grab before you can do anything.

 

[Levitas]

/********...

 

[Corigames]

/********...

OMG it, like, so totally funny because it's hilariously random, amirite? WTF for sure.


/spam

>_>

Please.

 

[Tyser]

Smash Researcher? WTF?!!?

 

[-taco]

Smash

v., smashed, smash·ing, smash·es.

v.tr.

1. To break (something) into pieces suddenly, noisily, and violently; shatter. See synonyms at break.
2.
1. To throw or dash (something) violently so as to shatter or crush. See synonyms at crush.
2. To strike with a heavy blow; batter.
3. Sports. To hit (a ball or shuttlecock) in a forceful overhand stroke.
4. To crush or destroy completely: smashed all resistance.


Researcher:

n. (-ẽr)

One who conducts research. In the field of scientific research, also called an investigator or scientist.


Idono =/

 

[Corigames]

In other words:
A brawl n00b who does weird stuff and tries to call it a combo and name it after himself.