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Intelligence Is Ian Illusion

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frotaz37

Smash Lord
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Are you serious? Fine Ill humour you.
Your posts are usually full of childish insults and terrible sarcasm played off as points so I probably won't be humored in the slightest. But we'll see.

Intelligence IMPLIES a scale EXACTLY the same as weight and height. People are fat, tall and smart. People are skinny, short and dumb. Colours are a scale of EM frequency. A large quotient of hz implies violet, a small one, red.
Intelligence has no meaning unless it is in a acale, just like weight and colours.
The reason it's not like colors is because each varying frequency has its own label. The problem with the idea of intelligence is that it only has one word: intelligence. Sure others may be used to describe certain types (wisdom, common sense) but for the most part intelligence is usually what it's defined as.
It'd be like saying each crayon in a box with 64 unique colored crayons has the same name.

And as for your other question oh god I don't know if its worth me explaining.
Oh look.

Have you ever heard of a test?
Humored level decreasing.

If one person can design a bridge while the other cant put a square peg in a square hole, you tell me if it is accurate to say one has a higher mental capacity than the other and which is better. We NEED a word for this.
The person designing bridges could be a total dumb *** and the person who can't put the square peg in the square hole could be a genius who has Agnosia. Based on your limited example, it's not only impossible to know which one has higher mental capacity, but it's also impossible to know which one is "better".

Why don't you just leave the thread? You're clearly not making an attempt to understand, you're just snidely refuting points with stupid examples.

But the real question is, why are you arguing with me? I've already stated that there IS a spectrum of mental capacity, so while you're sitting there saying "YA THERE IS" all that's happening is you're looking more and more dumb for arguing against a point I'm not making.

Yeah and I don't get why you guys come in a blog, insult the OP for no reason, and then act like he's doing something wrong by not arguing with you factually. It's pretty much the lowest of low behavior and I suggest y'all knock it off.
 

Browny

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Im arrogant, im full of technical bull****.

I also have an answer to everything you say, while you hide behind this idea that people are overcomplicating it. No, we are spelling it out for you in plain english. You disagree with us on principle, you have no rational answers.

Your argument is full of holes
You cant prove anything
You dont undetstand your own words

Yet we are wrong because 'we just are'.

Maybe if you spent more time studying for school tests and less time trying to expose the people who you think are dumber tjan you on the internet, you would be proud to say you are intelligent. Its never too late to try.

:phone:
 

Browny

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Oy frotaz stop ignoring my point, I compared intelligence level to height yet you talk about colours, dragging it out of context.

There is one word to describe it.
It does not measure superiority.
It is a label.
Height does not exist unless compared to other heights.

Its the same goddam thing.

:phone:
 

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
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Well, geez. You guys seem like fun.

Seriously, though, knowledge comes down to quantifiable nuggets of knowledge, things that you know. It consists of facts, of things that we can write down and identify. For example, Magus420 is really knowledgeable about Melee.

Here's a definition of the word for argument's sake: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/knowledge

Intelligence is the ability to discern differences, and identify situations, and separate them from one another. Well, that's kind of abstract. Intelligence incorporates knowing when something is necessary, knowing when something should be done. It is the ability to learn. Intelligence is more innate than knowledge, because again, knowledge is quantifiable.

A definition for your convenience: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intelligence

I think that the problem here is that we really don't have working definitions of intelligence and knowledge that everyone can agree on. Either that, or people are generally forgoing argument for more personal attacks. I dunno, I didn't bother really reading whatever went on in the 9-10 pages, cause it seemed like a lot of yelling.
 

frotaz37

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Oy frotaz stop ignoring my point, I compared intelligence level to height yet you talk about colours, dragging it out of context.

There is one word to describe it.
It does not measure superiority.
It is a label.
Height does not exist unless compared to other heights.

Its the same goddam thing.

:phone:
My original point was in response to you talking about colors, now talking about colors is ignoring your point? Sigh. It's obvious what I'm saying going over your head, so I'll try and dumb things down:

Your comparison of intelligence to height doesn't work because height is easily defined and easily measured. It's not nearly as simple when it comes to brain power, yet the lack of simplicity is ignored and given a one word definition which is extremely limited when it comes to describing a persons true mental ability. This is not the case with height or weight because height and weight are simple concepts. They are physical attributes that do not make assumptions about how good or bad somebody is at something.

Intelligence is not easily defined. Of course height doesn't exist unless compared to other heights, but all you do by saying that is show that you're totally missing my point. Remember how I already said that there IS a spectrum of mental capacity? I've never said there isn't so why are you still saying this -_-

My point is that using such a limited definition of intelligence that puts people on a comparative ladder, which supposedly represents their brain power, doesn't seem legitimate because how smart somebody is can't be defined by the extremely limited tests they will be subjected to in order to determine their individual variable.
 

neous

Smash Journeyman
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Neon. Drop those razzie maxie beats.

'Intelligence is an illusion'
That statements straight confusion.

[mewtwo's Side B], I don’t understand. Its foreign to me
like some faraway country's county's currency

like a 6 sided coin, or a
or a 0 sided loin - cloth
[naked]
a phantasm stopped short like shiz’s falco faked it

that’s Side B
flip the script to Side A. and truly-
observe intelligent pro level play
applying illusions. and mindgames, all day

crushing scrubs
like a brontosaurus trampling shrubs http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2321750/brontosaurus_does_not_exist.html
gang green gangstas crushing candy green dubs
proceeded by getting crushed by buttercups [that reference is powerpuff]
or meathanded scottish hooligan slamming mugs in pubs
and knocking heads [coins, 4stocks] in money matching poor nubs


I don’t C the OP's points [coin battle, time battle] perhaps cuz I lack intelligence.
Not remedied by any technical application of due diligence

its like
Its not an ‘it’ cuz ‘its’ not ‘real’ [sorry if I make grammar mistake. Its or it’s? or its’ ? lol]
Ethereal. Its Whispy. Hard to grasp like a cloud but ‘its’ something I can feel
Cloudy cotton candy . I can feel it, sticky. But It doesn’t exist
That very statement leaves me unsweet salty, pissed

Even krueger doesn’t get it
its an incompatible-distorted-alien-nightmare vision visit
A diffusion of reality’s GLOBAL(wolf) secta [sector]
like a black Friday - ( Rebecca )

intelligence is an illusion
I think thats food for thought for straw men [arguments]
More like illusion is an integral part of intelligence.
Anything else Is game mastery negligence

‘its’ Shouting out at the top of your lungs that tiers don exits. [scav]
The most intelligent people APPLY MINDGAMES or illusions to win it.
Any conflicting data is obviously just a fluke.
Don’t believe me, test your proverbial dukes against zooky zook [good luck, same like it was wished to goose and mav(erick)]

[zirra zook. zirra zirra zook] /end scratch

tldr: frowny face
edit post combo into Browny TASTE

Mindgames.

Tech Skill.

All day.

stuff i couldt work in: top gun [goose + mav] + top tier , tom cruise.
 

Browny

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Ok so let me get this straight.

You agree that there is a spectrum of mental capacity.

You say that no one can accurately place any person on this scale.

That is a 100% contradiction. If you can not locate the beginning, end, or ANY midpoint on a line, it does not exist. If you can not place stephen hawking or a brain damaged child on the line of mental capacity where the only option is one to be higher than another, you are either denying the existance of a spectrum, or ignoring the universally applied label becaude you simply dont agree with it.

'Im going to prove you wrong by disagreeing with you! Your move'

Thats what im seeing here.

That is AV's approach, hence my 'telling us that red is blue' statement.

-

By the way, mental capacity = intelligence. It exists.
:phone:
 

Vinylic.

Woke?
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SW-5214-5959-4787
This is a very unsatisfying arguement.

If intelligence doesn't exist physically. Then it's just an idea.
Intelligence is a word that people keep in their damn minds so they know what knowledge would mean.

Jesus frikin christ stop this now.
 

El Nino

BRoomer
BRoomer
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Messages
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Ground zero, 1945
Hello, AV.

Lol.. No. I am fine, they are being immature and choose to hide behind their human interpretation for ''intelligence'', when other convenient terms define it perfectly without giving us a measurement like humans are on different levels just because we have a special gift for knowledge.
A person's knowledge and intelligence are most likely related.

This is not my ego. This is my heart. :mad:
The "heart" is an illusion. :bee:

(Well, except for the physical four chambered organ, but you know what I mean.)
 

frotaz37

Smash Lord
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Ok so let me get this straight.

You agree that there is a spectrum of mental capacity.

You say that no one can accurately place any person on this scale.

That is a 100% contradiction. If you can not locate the beginning, end, or ANY midpoint on a line, it does not exist. If you can not place stephen hawking or a brain damaged child on the line of mental capacity where the only option is one to be higher than another, you are either denying the existance of a spectrum, or ignoring the universally applied label becaude you simply dont agree with it.

'Im going to prove you wrong by disagreeing with you! Your move'

Thats what im seeing here.

That is AV's approach, hence my 'telling us that red is blue' statement.

-

By the way, mental capacity = intelligence. It exists.
:phone:

No, I'm saying that the current methods for placing people on the scale are too generalized to account for the countless variables that determine a persons mental capacity.

I don't understand why you insist on turning to these extreme examples. I get what you're trying to say and I'm not even saying you're wrong. I'm simply telling you that it has nothing to do with my point.

Also, you realize Stephen Hawking is brain damaged right? ;)
 

Browny

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Well this thread served a good distraction from work.

However I am not going to suffer these attempts to invalidate my point on the basis of 'childishness' as defined by internet forum goers.

So heres my take on the whole thing, no room for assumptions of interpretation.

@ AV/frotaz

Humans have varying mental capacities. While some people have strong physical attributes, some people can witness open-eye surgery, some can show true courage and some can think quickly. There is no aspect of the human brain which is black and white. Even something such as right/left handers, there is no clear two sides and there are all shades of grey in-between. All aspects of our mental and bodily powers are different, and fall over a range. Whether it is our height, our ability to hear high frequency sounds or our compassion to those less fortunate, we can not be equal.

When dealing with physical differences, it is obvious and one can easily draw a scale of those who are more capable than others. when it comes to mental though, its not so simple, however it can always be observed. If two people walk past a beggar and one donates while the other kicks dirt in their face, one can easily measure a persons compassion. if one is a doctor while the other throws up at the sight of blood, we can tell which one is 'mentally stronger' in taking in these images. In fact if you think of ANY human attribute, physical or mental, you can easily define a smaller and a larger amount.

By defining a difference, you have therefore created a line where any person on this earth can fall on this line. Again, try to name any human emotion, feeling, or thought which you can not tell me examples of a minimum and maximum. Its just not possible.

The point being; do any of these attributes exist in outside of Earth. If I capture a lightyear cubed area of space outside the earth, will I find empathy? Will I find the colour 'red'? Of course not; every single human thought is limited to us and our labels. Its how we define our world. There is no single aspect of human brain behaviour which is not limited to us, which we have not labelled.

My point here is, dismissing any aspect of human thought as merely a label is an incredibly large fallacy. To deny its existence is to deny every other thought we have through the exact same reasoning. Lets look at empathy. 1) Does it exist outside the human mind? No. Does it affect our lives? Yes. Can I find 2 people on this earth and safely say that one person is more empathetic than the other? Of course. Is it a label? Yes. Hopefully that is enough to show you, that dismissing ANYTHING pertaining to the human mind as a label is just wrong. There are countless processes that go on in our brain and you are attempting to draw a fat line between every single one of those, and the word intelligence.

Now back to the start...
Just one aspect of what makes us unique is our ability to come to rational conclusions to real life problems quickly and efficiently. This is observable through every single decision you ever make in your life. Whether it is deciding if you want to hit snooze one more time on the alarm, if you want to waste more time of your life typing on a forum or if you want to put a deeper foundation for a skyscraper. To do any task in life first requires you to have first obtained the relevant information, you cant drive somewhere if you dont know the way. Then you have to store it, and then retrieve it. This applies to EVERY decision one can make in life. The efficient process of this, as kewkky pointed out, is defined as 'intelligence'. It affects all 3 factors. There is our ability, or even desire, to acquire new information. Our brains physical capacity to store it which is strengthened through practice and the recall which again, strengthened through practice.

This efficiency in practice has 2 outcomes and 2 outcomes only. The result; and the time taken to do it. The combination of these two factors forms what we have labelled intelligence. Someone who arrives at the correct answers in life quickly, is defined as more intelligent than someone who takes longer, to come to the wrong answer. As before, this is identical to empathy. Another example; courage. How great the risk of death must be, before someone will willingly take the risk to help another while being fully aware of the consequences. Its quite a hard thing to measure, but when the situation arises, the difference will be clear as day.

Now of course the issue with intelligence, is that it is so far reaching, how can we hope to measure something which attempts to cover all lifes decisions? Its simple. It is not a static value; it is an average. Over the course of our lives, we will all make millions of decisions. These will affect us and others around us. People will notice if one person repeatedly catches the wrong bus or someone who can compose music very well. Over all this exposure, we as humans doing what we do best, trying to categorise and quantify everything, will remember on average how many times someone makes the more correct decisions, and how long it takes them to do it. This proportion is nothing by itself however when we compare two people who have vastly different rates of correct decisions, we can see a difference. We do not care about the minimum or maximum, only that there is a difference. humankind has decided to give a name to this observed human behaviour. it was called intelligence. Much the same, they repeated this process for logic, colours, morals, ethics and a wide range of things which do not exist by themselves, but when compared to others, they begin to form a line between small and large.

The average difference between the amount of correct answers and the speed at which people make them in life has been observed. This difference needs a word to describe it for our own purposes. A word was given to it. That is all.

To disagree with the concept of 'intelligence' is to disagree on a difference in our ability to think quickly and make correct decisions. This would be true on one condition only; A spectrum does not exist. If humans were not unique and we all have the exact same levels of empathy, morals etc, one could argue this is possible. Clearly this is not the case. To deny a spectrum exists is to claim all humans are equal in one aspect alone. To this I argue; Find me a rugby player, and a university professor. Tell me honestly that the rugby has the exact same chance of making every single decision involved in a day, in the same time frame. Now ask yourself; if this was so easy, why do people say that school is hard, yet others find it easy? Do they choose to make it hard for themselves? What is stopping them? Is it their willpower to learn more? That is a factor intelligence. Is it their inability to store so much information? That is a factor of intelligence. Is it because they cant remember well? That is a factor of intelligence.

Remember this;
Good can not exist without Evil.
Smart can not exist without dumb.

If everyone in this world was of the same smartness, why has anyone ever disagreed on anything, surely we should all arrive at the exact same conclusion at the same time.


Also, you realize Stephen Hawking is brain damaged right? ;)
Do you realise that reading is hard, why dont you actually find out what is wrong with him?
 

frotaz37

Smash Lord
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I am not saying everyone in the world is of the same smartness.
Therefore, I am not trying to invalidate your point.

How come I keep saying that I agree that a spectrum of mental capacity exists and you keep posting as if I'm arguing against it?

Quit wasting my time.

And what the hell, are you suggesting that neurological disorders don't effect the brain? Stephen Hawking has ALS dude. From wikipedia: "Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), also referred to as Lou Gehrig's disease, is a form of motor neuron disease caused by the degeneration of neurons located in the ventral horn of the spinal cord and the cortical neurons that provide their afferent input."

Do you know what a cortical neuron is?

I guess not, since reading apparently IS hard.
 

Alien Vision

Smash Ace
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Messages
906
Browny, I am only talking about intelligence, and only intelligence right now. You cannot simply use other labels we have given that is just as metaphysical as our mind if I haven't even questioned them. We are questioning intelligence, and by questioning something irrelevant I feel as if you are desperate to be right about all of this.

I simply said that intelligence doesn't exist because I see no reason for it to exist. I only see other terms--that are just as metaphysical--that indeed state a solid definition rather than intelligence's pretentious, groundless, and empty meaning. Every other term you have used in this current argument have nothing to do with it, and indeed they do have a reasonable definition based off our interpretation of it.

Remember. This is intelligence we are discussing. Stop bringing in other things that I've clearly haven't said a damn thing about; since well, you know, I don't have a reason to-- unlike intelligence.
 
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You still are labelling it, Cadet. You aren't looking at it the way I look at it. It's not ''intelligence'' at all. Anybody can learn something if they set their mind to it. Your thousands of terms, and walls of texts-- even your thousands of sources isn't proving a damn point. It still uses ''intelligence'' as a label rather than a deeply defined structure that explains why people are at different levels.
So, just to make this perfectly clear: define intelligence.

My definition, or "label", as you call it, is what I refer to in regards to intelligence, or in other words smartness; how capable a person is to learn new things, how well their brain works, etc. This is the definition the scientific community works with when discussing someone's intelligence, and it has been empirically demonstrated that we can classify people on a scale of intelligence by this definition (unit measurement is, AFAIK, IQ) to a fairly high degree of accuracy.

Right now, it seems that this discussion is caught up on semantics; you define intelligence one way, and then claim it doesn't exist; I define it a different, empirically demonstrable way, and claim that it does exist and is quantifiable... according to my definition. The only question remains... What is your definition, and why is it at all relevant?

You look at this ''intelligence'' as if you can see it, and study it. You can't, you are only labelling it as such then giving it your own MAN-MADE interpretation, when it's simply a result of the brain not being treated appropiately in different individuals in the end.
Do you recognize that genetics can play a role in a person's intelligence?

I see ''intelligence'' as a force humans have used to feed their ego. What I see what you are guys are talking about is simply people who dedicated their time to knowledge. They loved what they did, and they put their mind right into what they wished to acknowledge.
It's one thing to stroke your ego, it's another to do so after demonstrating ability. When I claim that I am the strongest man on earth just to stroke my ego, if there was no way of demonstrating that I was the strongest man on earth in any quantifiable way (i.e. there is no way of showing off strength in any given discipline), then that would be senseless. But if I claim that I am the strongest man on earth after bench-pressing an 18-wheeler, then clearly, although I am feeding my ego, I have reason to do so. As is the case with being intelligent, having the capacity to learn, being logical... You get the point, no?

Yes, but we clearly can see colours, now can't we? The rest has nothing to do with intelligence, because it's another label that I won't argue with. If that's what you call that nature, sure.. I could careless. Intelligence is a different story. Does my title say '' Intelligence AND Morals AND Beliefs AND Feelings AND STUFF THAT WE CAN'T SEE PHYSICALLY, ARE ALL AN ILLUSION, DERP''?
We can clearly see colors, yes, but we can indirectly see and experience variances in intelligence. You also don't seem to get something: people are not claiming that you say that morals, beliefs, feelings, and the like are all illusions. People are merely pointing out that your arguments against intelligence work just as well against all of those things.
 
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