Infinite Second Jump Recovery List and Discussion [SEPT 7] - 19 videos!

[Badjuju]

Not that this really means anything, but i wonder if this works for infinite wall jumping too.

 

[CKaiser]

Well the real issue of whether or not this will be applicable is if it can be punished. Maybe you can still get shield grabbed, there is extremely little shield stun in brawl and you do still end up near the ground for a considerable amount of time. The other thing is tilts out of shield, and there's very little you can do about that, it's just a matter of whether or not you can get the second aerial off before the tilt comes out. I really don't have the resources to test any of this but someone should get a friend and work on it. Snake's up tilt should be a good test.

 

[Makkun]

I'm going to test this in a real match as soon as I can. However, it may not be until this weekend. :/

 

[Gamer212]

The Yoshi vid was done by Bigman according to the yoshinator.

 

[Makkun]

Oh I see. O: Oops. XD Thanks!

(I should really pay more attention to that x-X)

 

[Sliq]

Hey, as I pointed out in the gannondorf forum it definitely helps with the landing lag glitch.

No, it doesn't, because when you land, even with this glitch, you will still have the landfall special lag.

 

[adumbrodeus]

No, it doesn't, because when you land, even with this glitch, you will still have the landfall special lag.

The point is you get a whole lot more freedom to chose when to take that lag, a definite advantage.

 

[OTRU...]

has anyone been able to use this at will in matches?

 

[Gamer212]

Not many people can do it at will anyway. Timing is very difficult.

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

It will eventually become muscle memory, give it time to be nurtured.

 

[Makkun]

Yeah plus some aerials are extremely easy to time, namely Diddy's Dair, Snake's Dair, and Pikachu's Nair.

Well... easy in the sense of you could learn how to consistently do it in less than 20 minutes.

 

[Vegeta214]

It will eventually become muscle memory, give it time to be nurtured.

I agree. Once people reach that state, it will be quite useful. Not the end-all technique, but definitely useful.

 

[ihatemybrother]

Hey guys, you can ledge hop to the ISJ, seems a pretty reasonable application. Plus, it seems to be much easier. The Video will be up once it finishes processing. In the video I do it with Sonic. I couldn't get the bair or nair to work, BUT I literally have only tested this for like 7 minutes. (Came up with the Idea in the middle of my English exam)
I tried Marth, off camera, and I got his fair to work after only like 3 tries. Sorry that I've done so little testing, summer is nearing and exams are this week, but once those are over, I will be all over this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNqr97h8AAw


There is one thing that I didn't film, but works: here it is: Ledge Drop, jump, then attack, and on your way UP, not down, ISJ. Only certain attack will work though, but in order to make sure it worked, I quickly tested Bowser's Koopa claw, and it works. Its not on video though, I'll show you what I mean in a video tomorrow.

Oh, and this seems much more easy and practical than other applications.

 

[Makkun]

Yeah, this has been known for some time now. Using rising aerials to any platform makes the timing easier. I'll add the video though just for the sake of spreading knowledge, thanks!

 

[bigman40]

I've done it in a match w/ lag 3 times. It's pretty good after you practice the timing. you mainly have to know the timing it. Gives it about 3 days of like 2-3 hours of practicing. It'll start getting easier then. I can at least do it repeatedly once, maybe twice if i'm lucky.

 

[CKaiser]

Last time i checked wavedash timing is pretty difficult, too and people got it down pretty easily

 

[3xSwords]

Bowser's koopa klaw isn't a good test b/c the timing for that thing is so easy that its in a separate category. Nice vid showing ledge ISJR exists. We knew it did but we didn't have proof and now we do. Also were you in 1.5x speed? That's pretty good timing.

Also makkun put on the OP to tell ppl to STOP asking for uses. Its been out for 4 days and ppl are so ridiculously lazy that they won't try it out. And are just asking us, who are busy w/ testing, to try it out. Either they try it themselves or they wait; seriously pissing me off. No offense intended to ppl that did test it out but seriously too many useless "what's the point?" posts.

 

[Sliq]

The point is you get a whole lot more freedom to chose when to take that lag, a definite advantage.

Except the part where you are helplessly bouncing in the air.

 

[3xSwords]

^while doing an attack.

Then I guess it depends which aerial you're doing. Let's not discuss disadvantages and advantages somebody make a thread on it. In fact I'll do it right now. Testing and discussing pros and cons are different things . Hope you all understand.

 

[ihatemybrother]

Also were you in 1.5x speed? That's pretty good timing.

Whoa, I didn't even realize it till just now, I guess I was messing with 1/4 speed and I accidentally put it on 1.5

Anyway, I didn't see it in the OP so thats why I posted.

 

[bigman40]

Yeah, I'm already finding good strats that can revolve round yoshi's aerial game with this. If you think that the move will be useless, then don't come by. Something like this to be mastered, THEN applied in an actual match will take time. So shut up, and wait.

 

[Gazebo]

I'm a lot more curious as to the mechanics of this than anything else.

I know that what happens is that the game interprets you as being on the ground, but because the move is just ending, it interprets you as in the air, and in that way renews your jumps, but im wondering what else the game can possibly interpret as two things at once.

As far as usefulness goes, I have to agree with Aether in the other thread: It really does not seem very practical.

There is too little hitstun in brawl for you to be able to truly juggle,
second jumps are nothing in terms to first jumps as far as versatility goes,
this does NOT cancel out any landing lag because the move would normally end just as you landed and thus be cancelled already,
and it just really screams 'gimpable' to me.

If anything, I see the yoshi second jump in mid-air as the only positive byproduct of this and am more interested in things like that than using this as a juggle.

But it definitely is important to know what moves this can be done with and all that just for the cases like yoshi.

 

[3xSwords]

Here's the thread for discussing it so you all won't look like spammers
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4611693#post4611693

Edit: ^Actually its helpful b/c if you were planning to follow w/ another aerial than it is faster b/c there is no jumping lag. Otherwise if you were not planning to then you don't have to do it. Simple? You can or can not do it, its a choice and this AT will only be useful to those who use it. Example: Are you going to wavedash into a falcon punch? In the same respects you won't ISJR in certain situations.

 

[Makkun]

I'm a lot more curious as to the mechanics of this than anything else.

I know that what happens is that the game interprets you as being on the ground, but because the move is just ending, it interprets you as in the air, and in that way renews your jumps, but im wondering what else the game can possibly interpret as two things at once.

As far as usefulness goes, I have to agree with Aether in the other thread: It really does not seem very practical.

There is too little hitstun in brawl for you to be able to truly juggle,
second jumps are nothing in terms to first jumps as far as versatility goes,
this does NOT cancel out any landing lag because the move would normally end just as you landed and thus be cancelled already,
and it just really screams 'gimpable' to me.

If anything, I see the yoshi second jump in mid-air as the only positive byproduct of this and am more interested in things like that than using this as a juggle.

But it definitely is important to know what moves this can be done with and all that just for the cases like yoshi.

Well Snake for one.

Also, I'm very interested in the mechanics as well. I was thinking "If you can 'technically' be on the ground while not having landing lag, couldn't this be cancelled into land attacks?" I'm also hoping this will lead to even more useful/easier to use discoveries.

 

[Gazebo]

Well Snake for one.

Also, I'm very interested in the mechanics as well. I was thinking "If you can 'technically' be on the ground while not having landing lag, couldn't this be cancelled into land attacks?" I'm also hoping this will lead to even more useful/easier to use discoveries.

Here's the thread for discussing it so you all won't look like spammers
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4611693#post4611693

Edit: ^Actually its helpful b/c if you were planning to follow w/ another aerial than it is faster b/c there is no jumping lag. Otherwise if you were not planning to then you don't have to do it. Simple? You can or can not do it, its a choice and this AT will only be useful to those who use it. Example: Are you going to wavedash into a falcon punch? In the same respects you won't ISJR in certain situations.

I think the snake dair seems a lot better in theory than anything. Aerials dont clank and it only has a downwards hitbox, I think.

It could definitely be useful, maybe im just too narrow-minded.

To answer the follow-up with aerial comment, second jump heights are set. You cant change them. [EDIT: Following sentence is wrong, I feel kind of ignorant.] I dont think theres any lag if you land laglessly and then jump again that there isnt using this technique, but im nowhere near sure.

WoP is the only really really great use of this I can think of, but again, im probably just too narrow-minded.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Except the part where you are helplessly bouncing in the air.

I don't know, ability to do aerials doesn't seem very helpless.

If it's got applications as an independent defensive maneuver it's certainly not being helpless.

 

[3xSwords]

Makkun if you didn't see in the post on my thread could you change your title to just testing it and not discussing. I think that will be for the better, if this thread only concentrates on the sole purpose of testing it. If you want to keep it I'll just see if my thread gets closed or not .

 

[Makkun]

Gazebo, it's not narrow-mindedness so much as cautiousness. XD It's alright, it's just that I think the technique definitely needs more time.

@3xSwords: Like I posted in your thread, I'll change my title if the mods don't have a problem. I just think it would be better to have one thread for discussion and everything else. Keeps it all centralized and is more simple. It's kind of like how there's an official tier discussion sticky instead of a thread for tier list making, a thread for tier discussion, and a thread for anything else that has to do with that.

I don't have a problem changing my title. XDD In fact that would shorten it up and leave room to put summaries of updates at the end of the title. I just want to see what the mods think is best.

 

[Crizthakidd]

i hate playing with tap jump on. but doing so with a char with many jumps u can easily see this SJR in affect. i did like 10 jumps and nairs with d3 before touching ground

 

[Makkun]

I still think that the timing for the jump is easy enough that you don't need to have tap jump on. Plus you could hold Y or X I think anyway...

Or I could be completely wrong about jump timing. XDD

 

[3xSwords]

Does holding X or Y actually make it easier? O.o I would love it if it does, timing is way too annoying. Also has it been tested whether spamming X,Y, and up on control stick at the roughly the time where you can SJR make it easier?

 

[Crizthakidd]

nope your right. im just getting pissed at the timing and how icant do it consecutively lol. ima just pract an hour more

 

[Makkun]

Does holding X or Y actually make it easier? O.o I would love it if it does, timing is way too annoying. Also has it been tested whether spamming X,Y, and up on control stick at the roughly the time where you can SJR make it easier?

I only meant holding it for multi-jump characters, and still I'm not exactly sure.

And I honestly have no idea if spamming works. @__o at first I thought it did, but now I'm not so sure.

 

[3xSwords]

Kirbiciding required semi-strict timing, and it was recommended to spam buttons there. But is the timing so strict that even spamming won't get it? I would say spamming helps but it will be hard for you, the player, to recover into a normal gamming position (for me at least). LOL human experiencing post lag from spamming buttons, where's the L-button on his body?

 

[Makkun]

Yeah then I suppose spamming would work? I'm still not 100% sure. XDD *shoots self*

 

[Mugendai]

ITT: Bigots feeling important.

This technique certainly helps, but jesus -- calm down.

 

[Makkun]

)':

10sadfaces

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Edit: @Jeepysol: Very impressive video! (: Could you test to see if these are fast fall'able? Also I would REALLY like to know if it is possible to cancel the momentum while going upwards during an ISJR with Lucario's Dair. This could make for some very rapid Dairing!

D-air is fast fall'able. I'm thinking u-air is too, but I haven't tested his other aerials as thoroughly.

Unfortunately, it is not possible to cancel d-air momentum. The only time his d-air momentum is cancelled is when he is in his tumbling animation.

 

[Makkun]

I just messed around with a CPU while playing as Pikachu and using SJR with ledgehopping and edgeguarding, and I did some pretty cool stuff. I also managed to shortly ISJR juggle Cpt. Falcon with Pikachu's Uair... not sure if the hitstun is long enough to be used against a human, but it worked very nicely at low-medium percentages.

Edit: @Jeepy Sol: When you use Lucario's Dair while rising, you stop in place. I've already SJR'd his Dair close to the ground, I just want to know how rapidly it can be ISJR'd.

 

[Ekaru]

D-air is fast fall'able. I'm thinking u-air is too, but I haven't tested his other aerials as thoroughly.

Unfortunately, it is not possible to cancel d-air momentum. The only time his d-air momentum is cancelled is when he is in his tumbling animation.

I think he meant in the sense that Lucario often stops in place for his dair, as in when you jump and dair in quick succession, Lucario dairs very close to the ground, then lands. I think he meant that in that sense, aka the 'SHFFL'. >.>;

Anyways, last time I checked, it's possible to do it that way, but with roughly the same distance from the ground as going DOWNwards. (Checks)

Edited: had the direction wrong. OOPS