Improving Pit's Reputation

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I created this thread because it is long overdue and it's important to improve Pit's reputation within the community. We need a better reputation, so we can thrive and finally prove how good Pit is. The ultimate goal of this thread is to improve Pit's tournament results because results are closely related to his reputation. If we improve his results, we also improve his reputation. I know some of you are thinking, "What reputation?" Well, believe it or not, most of the community has a very negative viewpoint about Pit. Literally 95% of the negative comments are completely false.

I'll give some examples:

Pit has one of the easiest to gimp recovery's, an easy to punish projectile, lacks solid kill moves, the two most useless reflects in the game, and is very slow in the air. He is definitely past his prime and will be moving down shortly. He is so poorly equipped for high level play to me personally.

Once Pit's metagame is for the most part figured out, expect a fall in his position (unless he's got something *really* good hidden in there, which isn't likely). If Pit's really as amazing as people say he is, then prove it... Go win tourneys with Pit, go find out how to **** the high tiers, but until then "potential" is a really lame excuse

I think the COMPLETE opposite. he is fast, but he doesnt seem to have enough range. he actually has very little power, and his recovery, while good, can be taken advantage of. I dont see many pits these days, but the ones I do see arent fancy or flashy at all, I had thought they had finally got that message.
He has a good keep away game. but i feel that once people learn how he works and get inside of him, and arent coerced into approaching in ways beneficial to the pit, the few pits there are are going to drop. he just doesnt seem to have anything special to seperate himself as a character outside of planking.

As you can see, the community isn't highly viewed at all. It's our job as Pit players to go out and place high in tournaments, and when I say high, I mean godly high like consistent top 3 placements.

There is hope though, some of the community sees his potential:

Where as Pit has one of the best recoveries. A killer projectile, Many multi hit attacks that are actually safe. Good spacing attacks. And a really great defensive game. Also many of his matchups can be more adaptive.

I agree that Pit is one of the best characters in the game, which is also why I picked him up next to Wolf / Snake. I don't understand why so many people fail to see how good that character is. He has overall really good attributes (heavy enough to live long - not too heavy so he don't get CGed by everything; falls fast enough to not get juggle ***** - floaty enough to not get comboed) and a really powerful moveset.

If people think moves like MK Dsmash are broken, then some of Pit's moves are uber broken. Fsmash hits on the 5th frame, deals 19% and has more knockback then MK dsmash but about the same cooldown. That's absolutely ridiculous and easily on the same level as Snake ftilt.
Pit Utilt can deal up to 16% and hits on the 3rd frame. This is pretty much second to none in terms of how quick he can deal damage, especially since he has one of the best projectiles (chargable + controllable) too. Pit is one of the characters who can keep up with MK, Snake, Diddy, Falco and Wario when it comes to deal damage and that's a huge deal in Brawl.

His Uair and Utilt are amazing tools to juggle - both deal 15%+, have hitboxes that last longer than dodges, can shield poke and hit fairly quick. He has no deadspot because he has a solid dair and djump + dair can get him out of many juggle traps. In essence he can deal much damage + avoid getting damaged extremely well. That's good enough for A-Tier.

Imo Pit would be S-Tier if he had a better grab. Grabs are really important and another huge reason why MK, Snake, Diddy and Wario are so high on the tier list. Other than that Pit shares many traits with these characters: He's very flexible, can deal lots of damage, can KO in many situations (when grounded, in the air, etc) and can camp in almost any position.

Pit is one of the most underrated characters in the game. I think that Pit deserves his place near the top of the tier list along with characters like Falco and Diddy. I can't wait for the day that a Pit main, similar to Koolaid, bursts onto the scene and wins a major. No, I didn't say PLACES at a major, I said WINS a major. Pit has so much potential it is ridiculous. He's fast, has range, has power, has an amazing projectile, and an extremely good recovery. Pit players, much like Pikachu players, have this unfortunate habit of massively overcomplicating their character. Making him all about arrow loops and up b tricks, instead of just focusing on doing what works when it works. Pit is going to be a major contender in the future, and I can't wait to see who it is that eventually steps it up with him. Please, help make this day come soon Pit mains.

I strongly believe that Pit is top 5 material. I think he fits perfectly in A tier(Snake, Diddy, Falco, Pit). Look at how good that sounds!

I have provided some suggestions on how to improve Pit's reputation. Your input is also needed because we need teamwork to get through this. Without the Pits working together, we will never be able to reach Pit's maximum potential. I know some of us are divided on this site on another(allisbrawl). It's time to put aside childish behavior, and learn to work together! We need every person on board, and I know we can't succeed without cooperation, communication, and a little fun

Here are my thoughts:

1) We must improve our tournament results

This is important because without reuslts, we have no factual, legitamate data that proves that Pit is one of the best. We won't be able to say that Pit is tournament viable. We need to aim for consistent top 3 placements.

2) Use arrows properly!!!

Not using them properly leads people to believe that they suck >_< which is not true at all! Arrows are meant to get reactions from opponents, figure out their style, edgeguard, and to pressure them into approaching. If we can start using arrows properly, then no one will question that Pit's projectile is first-class.

3) We must relinquish the use of ATs!!!

If we want to get better, we need to stop relying on ATs(arrow looping, wingdashing, etc...) to get us the win. If you did not know, ATs will not make you a better player. Only knowledge of fighting game basics(adapting, predicting, spacing, and punishing) will increase you skill level. I know that everyone is not perfect, and that you may have difficulty stopping this baad habit at first, but I assure you that it will pay off in the long run. Some food for though..."Have you seen Masashi or Danny use ATs that caused major damage to an opponent?)

4) You must recover!

I think this is the main reason why Pit has such a bad reputation. I'm sure everyone on this board has gimped a Pit before. Pit has such an amazing recovery(3 jumps, glide, and Up-B) that he should rarely get gimped! If your having trouble recovering on one side, don't forget that you have another you can latch onto(stage dependant).

5) Metaknight is the most important matchup in the game

If we nail this matchup down, Pit will be able to rise and start showing his true colors. Instead of discussing mediocre characters, we need to start having serious testings and discussions about MK. MK is holding Pit down from his proper placings, and once we nail this matchup down, I expect to see great things out of future high-level Pits. If you don't believe me, name a top-level Pit that has beaten a top-level MK.

Closing Thoughts

I feel that Pit has the lot of potential and a lot of room to grow. In order for growth, it's up to us to put forth the effort to increase the skill level of this community and to help each other out. We need better tournament results, better use of our basic tools, and we need to crack down on MK. As long as we work together, communicate, and place well; we can improve Pit's reputation and transform him into the top 5 character he is.


Discuss...

 

[Wingless]

I believe you are correct in a few points. Of course...I'm kind of wondering who the heck would say Pit's aerials are slow...that's ridiculous. Though, I don't undestand the whole 'relinquish AT's' thing... I mean, I'm trying my best to get Wing dashing in a comfortable spot. You have to know all the tricks that way you can change your game constantly to opponents. Not one skill should be wasted.

MK seems to be everywhere (For good reason), but honestly, whenever I'm fighting a MK that seems to know what he's doing, the key seems to be to stay out of the air as much as possible. That may or may not be true, but it works in my mind. Because, for most characters, Pit's best with his projectile, and aerials - but MK has better air game than us, and it's hard for most Pit players to wait it out on the ground

Though, I personally think that MK is too vastly feared. He's good, but he's not the only one that's regularly lost to. Pikachu, Tink...uhm...well, those are the ones I have problems with at times...

 

[Katana_koden]

I also agree with most of the post, the relinquishing the AT's though... I think we just use it wrong.

Im in for arrow loops, but In honest safeness, it only worked like best competitive if you shoot towards your opponent, if they evade you can loop it back with proper spacing. There we can continue to control our character during their sidestep and punish accordingly. The returning arrow is an extra pain.

Wing dashing, great for spacing, and not meant to be spammed. In a match up against snake, this is used alot for me against his grenades. The wings push the grenades far back to his location. The fact that we can cancel it is a bonus to follow it up such as rolls from his returning grenade.

All other things you said is the very reason I can't main anyone else. He is too good. His versatility is off the scale. One you are used to pits recovery, you will dislike everyone elses recovery. The moment I saw pit's spinning blades on brawl trailers, meant my type of character.

Everyone's image on pit is probably this:

But should think of him like:

or

 

[pitskeyblade]

I totally agree with you. I am so sick of going to tourneys only to be underestimated or made fun of because of my main. So far, I'm kinda raising Pit awareness in my neck of the woods (North Carolina), but everywhere else.... nothing. I find that to best a Meta Knight, you have to attack a little earlier than normal because of how fast he is. That and staying out of the air. Multi-hit attacks are good to keep him from pulling all those mean little combos of his. He's a light character, so keeping a fresh Bair on hand is a good idea, once you rack him up to a higher %. I fight a fairly good MK almost every day, and it gets easier after a while. Don't get discouraged: Meta Knight is a very frusterating character to fight against. Just watch for the right moment to punish the little ****er.

 

[Sovereign]

I 'spose this is a good thread to make my introduction as a new Pit main, who's going to get serious about competitive play.

I don't think I've seen any Pit players at all in my area, except for one. I'm going to do what I can to bring Pit to the glory he deserves, and hopefully others will find him to be a better character than he appears.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I believe you are correct in a few points. Of course...I'm kind of wondering who the heck would say Pit's aerials are slow...that's ridiculous. Though, I don't undestand the whole 'relinquish AT's' thing... I mean, I'm trying my best to get Wing dashing in a comfortable spot. You have to know all the tricks that way you can change your game constantly to opponents. Not one skill should be wasted.

MK seems to be everywhere (For good reason), but honestly, whenever I'm fighting a MK that seems to know what he's doing, the key seems to be to stay out of the air as much as possible. That may or may not be true, but it works in my mind. Because, for most characters, Pit's best with his projectile, and aerials - but MK has better air game than us, and it's hard for most Pit players to wait it out on the ground

Though, I personally think that MK is too vastly feared. He's good, but he's not the only one that's regularly lost to. Pikachu, Tink...uhm...well, those are the ones I have problems with at times...

This is what I mean. We are becoming too focused on ATs when we have other important aspects to worry about. The wingdash push effect is nice and all, but it will not win tournaments. Mastry of the basics(adapting, predicting, knowledge of the game) is what will win tournaments. C'mon Pits, don't get focused on ONE scenario out of a THOUSANDS! Wingdash is not that important when you put it into that perspective. Also, we have a basic move that has some of the features of wingdash...WALKING!!! It spaces the same if not better annnd its quicker!

 

[Afropony]

Wingdashing means you're still facing the same way though.
Although you are right, we need the basics more then the tricky stuff.

 

[Smashragde]

gadiel is right but wing less said something important "You have to know all the tricks that way you can change your game constantly to opponents." this is also a good point O___O

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I agree that Pit is one of the best characters in the game, which is also why I picked him up next to Wolf / Snake. I don't understand why so many people fail to see how good that character is. He has overall really good attributes (heavy enough to live long - not too heavy so he don't get CGed by everything; falls fast enough to not get juggle ***** - floaty enough to not get comboed) and a really powerful moveset.

If people think moves like MK Dsmash are broken, then some of Pit's moves are uber broken. Fsmash hits on the 5th frame, deals 19% and has more knockback then MK dsmash but about the same cooldown. That's absolutely ridiculous and easily on the same level as Snake ftilt.
Pit Utilt can deal up to 16% and hits on the 3rd frame. This is pretty much second to none in terms of how quick he can deal damage, especially since he has one of the best projectiles (chargable + controllable) too. Pit is one of the characters who can keep up with MK, Snake, Diddy, Falco and Wario when it comes to deal damage and that's a huge deal in Brawl.

His Uair and Utilt are amazing tools to juggle - both deal 15%+, have hitboxes that last longer than dodges, can shield poke and hit fairly quick. He has no deadspot because he has a solid dair and djump + dair can get him out of many juggle traps. In essence he can deal much damage + avoid getting damaged extremely well. That's good enough for A-Tier.

Imo Pit would be S-Tier if he had a better grab. Grabs are really important and another huge reason why MK, Snake, Diddy and Wario are so high on the tier list. Other than that Pit shares many traits with these characters: He's very flexible, can deal lots of damage, can KO in many situations (when grounded, in the air, etc) and can camp in almost any position.

 

[Katana_koden]

Gheb, good one for pointing out S tier grabs.

Some been using pits grabs such as sliding grabs. It doesn't seem normal to do a F tilt grab, but that's a major improvement.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

I like when people underestimate my character. I can take advantage of that.

 

[Wingless]

This is what I mean. We are becoming too focused on ATs when we have other important aspects to worry about. The wingdash push effect is nice and all, but it will not win tournaments. Mastry of the basics(adapting, predicting, knowledge of the game) is what will win tournaments. C'mon Pits, don't get focused on ONE scenario out of a THOUSANDS! Wingdash is not that important when you put it into that perspective. Also, we have a basic move that has some of the features of wingdash...WALKING!!! It spaces the same if not better annnd its quicker!

But why can't we do it all? It's not that we focus on the ATs, it's that it's a good thing to learn. It's common sense to master the basics, and learn new ways to improve it - and when to use what in what situation...SO we, like most other characters, should not shun the ATs given to us, but just incorporate them into our own gameplay. It gives us an edge.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

But why can't we do it all? It's not that we focus on the ATs, it's that it's a good thing to learn. It's common sense to master the basics, and learn new ways to improve it - and when to use what in what situation...SO we, like most other characters, should not shun the ATs given to us, but just incorporate them into our own gameplay. It gives us an edge.

I understand about having more available options(only like 5 more tops which is not very many compared to the amount of other options), but when you haven't mastered the basics, then there is no use to learn ATs. Its more important to focus on improving so you can WIN tournaments. ATs may come in handy eventually, but now is not the time to focus on them. It distracts you from the purpose of improving!

 

[Jinxkatrina8]

Top 5? Hecka no. Pit certainly isn't terrible, but he simply *does not* have the tools to put him in the top5, or even in the A tier. I think we all agree that for the most part Pit is a very solid character, but he's not really all that spectacular, at least not MK, Snake, Diddy, Falco spectacular

A good (not amazing, not at all bad) recovery and a good projectile are not enough to warrant much more of a boost than Pit's gotten. Pit lacks good kill moves, power, range, and as much as you don't want to admit it *his recovery is fairly easy to gimp*. He's pretty easy to juggle, and like I said before (read second quote), once people have Pit figured out, I'm confident he'll find himself solidly in the high C, low B tier. Never higher.

I think we can all agree that Pit is a beast at racking up damage, but not *that* much else. He has no really great MUs with high tiers, and IMO a *lot* of his MU ratios are skewed.

Don't get me wrong here, I have nothing against Pit, he's a fun and challenging character to use and to fight against, I just *do not* think he's high tier material.

 

[Nitrix]

Great post by OP . I think Pit is much better than others think. There are so many silly stereotypes that he has to deal with.

I think for the most part we have to concentrate alot less on the AT's we have and focus on accentuating Pit's strengths and minimizing his weaknesses. We just need to make Pit seem much more "play to win" like and use moves that are safe and appropriate for every situation rather than using fancy arrow tricks and promoting complicated AT's that while helpful will not make nearly as big as a difference as concentrating our style.

In short....we have to be boring

Top 5? Hecka no. Pit certainly isn't terrible, but he simply *does not* have the tools to put him in the top5, or even in the A tier. I think we all agree that for the most part Pit is a very solid character, but he's not really all that spectacular, at least not MK, Snake, Diddy, Falco spectacular

A good (not amazing, not at all bad) recovery and a good projectile are not enough to warrant much more of a boost than Pit's gotten. Pit lacks good kill moves, power, range, and as much as you don't want to admit it *his recovery is fairly easy to gimp*. He's pretty easy to juggle, and like I said before (read second quote), once people have Pit figured out, I'm confident he'll find himself solidly in the high C, low B tier. Never higher.

I think we can all agree that Pit is a beast at racking up damage, but not *that* much else. He has no really great MUs with high tiers, and IMO a *lot* of his MU ratios are skewed.

Don't get me wrong here, I have nothing against Pit, he's a fun and challenging character to use and to fight against, I just *do not* think he's high tier material.

Pit does have an excellent recovery. If you are so sure of yourself, why not challenge a top Pit like Koolaid and prove it. Personally I am almost never gimped. Pit can just glide over or under the stage, or use WOI, or just jump to safety. Pit has a very large amount of options and a strong Pit is rarely gimped.

I could go on and on about your post, but just go read Gheb's.

EDIT: 500th post

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Top 5? Hecka no. Pit certainly isn't terrible, but he simply *does not* have the tools to put him in the top5, or even in the A tier. I think we all agree that for the most part Pit is a very solid character, but he's not really all that spectacular, at least not MK, Snake, Diddy, Falco spectacular

A good (not amazing, not at all bad) recovery and a good projectile are not enough to warrant much more of a boost than Pit's gotten. Pit lacks good kill moves, power, range, and as much as you don't want to admit it *his recovery is fairly easy to gimp*. He's pretty easy to juggle, and like I said before (read second quote), once people have Pit figured out, I'm confident he'll find himself solidly in the high C, low B tier. Never higher.

I think we can all agree that Pit is a beast at racking up damage, but not *that* much else. He has no really great MUs with high tiers, and IMO a *lot* of his MU ratios are skewed.

Don't get me wrong here, I have nothing against Pit, he's a fun and challenging character to use and to fight against, I just *do not* think he's high tier material.

Well thank you for your honest opinion! This is what this thread is all about. We're trying to improve our reputation within the community, and your comments are very much what the community thinks of us. I'll tell you that we have not given you reasons to believe otherwise, as we lack in high-placing tournament results.

 

[Afropony]

Pit's recovery isn't easy to gimp.

 

[Coffee™]

You might have just inspired me to play Black Pit again...lol

 

[IrisKong]

A good (not amazing, not at all bad) recovery and a good projectile are not enough to warrant much more of a boost than Pit's gotten. Pit lacks good kill moves, power, range, and as much as you don't want to admit it *his recovery is fairly easy to gimp*. He's pretty easy to juggle, and like I said before (read second quote), once people have Pit figured out, I'm confident he'll find himself solidly in the high C, low B tier. Never higher.

Finally someone who agrees...

I love pit, I agree he is a good character, but to say he is A tier material...no. He has potential to be 1 of the top 10 characters, not top 5. He has no matchups that are incredibly in his favor, most of his matchups are 55-45. His recovery can be gimped by several characters (although good players will not get gimped nearly as often). We do have an advantage that Pit is underestimated. But if we do start to show his colors, people will figure it out and we will still be put back into the mid tiers. I will be repping pit at the next tourny I go to, and I will probably do well, but alot of it will be to MU inexperience for the other players.

Whoever said Pits Utilt is on par with snakes is funny. Same with pits Fsmash being compared to MK's Dsmash (our Fsmash gets clanged with a jab, lol). Our moves are good, but not that good, otherwise we would be top 5, which we arent, and never will be, unless some crazy wave dash is found (not thinking it will).

I will do whatever I can to help, I started the 3 MU threads and will continue to do so, but if people are going to give incorrect info then whats the point? I am happy that people are eager to show pit being good, but dont try and say he is S tier, it will just make pit boards look dumb.

 

[Coffee™]

Finally someone who agrees...

I love pit, I agree he is a good character, but to say he is A tier material...no. He has potential to be 1 of the top 10 characters, not top 5. He has no matchups that are incredibly in his favor, most of his matchups are 55-45. His recovery can be gimped by several characters (although good players will not get gimped nearly as often). We do have an advantage that Pit is underestimated. But if we do start to show his colors, people will figure it out and we will still be put back into the mid tiers. I will be repping pit at the next tourny I go to, and I will probably do well, but alot of it will be to MU inexperience for the other players.

Whoever said Pits Utilt is on par with snakes is funny. Same with pits Fsmash being compared to MK's Dsmash (our Fsmash gets clanged with a jab, lol). Our moves are good, but not that good, otherwise we would be top 5, which we arent, and never will be, unless some crazy wave dash is found (not thinking it will).

I will do whatever I can to help, I started the 3 MU threads and will continue to do so, but if people are going to give incorrect info then whats the point? I am happy that people are eager to show pit being good, but dont try and say he is S tier, it will just make pit boards look dumb.

I don't really think you have any right in saying

but if people give incorrect info then whats the point?

I can easily say I think both you and the poster you quoted are wrong about a number of things but in the end, there is still no progress.

 

[IrisKong]

I don't really think you have any right in saying I can easily say I think both you and the poster you quoted are wrong about a number of things but in the end, there is still no progress.

When people say things like comparing Pits Utilt to snakes, it makes me wonder. feel free to correct me though.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

If people think moves like MK Dsmash are broken, then some of Pit's moves are uber broken. Fsmash hits on the 5th frame, deals 19% and has more knockback then MK dsmash but about the same cooldown. That's absolutely ridiculous and easily on the same level as Snake ftilt.
Pit Utilt can deal up to 16% and hits on the 3rd frame.

When people say things like comparing Pits Utilt to snakes, it makes me wonder. feel free to correct me though.

Corrected, Gheb stated that F-Smash was on par with snake's f-tilt, not that Pit's u-tilt was on par with Snake's uptilt.

Once again, thanks for your opinion. It's disappointing that Pit has such negative views, but hey...we haven't given them a reason not to.

If you didn't already know, most of Pit's matchups have been covered on allisbrawl, with Admiral Pit leading the group. It's a shame that he wasn't appreciated here because he has some great matchup summaries.

 

[IrisKong]

Corrected, Gheb stated that F-Smash was on par with snake's f-tilt, not that Pit's u-tilt was on par with Snake's uptilt.

Once again, thanks for your opinion. It's disappointing that Pit has such negative views, but hey...we haven't given them a reason not to.

If you didn't already know, most of Pit's matchups have been covered on allisbrawl, with Admiral Pit leading the group. It's a shame that he wasn't appreciated here because he has some great matchup summaries.

Even still, saying pits Fsmash is on par with Snakes Ftilt... Ftilt has more range, is much harder to DI out of and does more damage... I dont of Pit in a negative way, I just think pit mains over hype him. I think he deserves his spot on the current tier list, and has potential to move up a few spots, just not as much as alot of peole are saying.

 

[PsiStomp]

I heard somewhere that, in japan, pit is the best character. Now, if i'm not mistaken, dont the japanese play better? So, technically, doesnt that make pit the best character?

 

[dualseeker]

I agree with you Gadiel. We aren't giving wrong information. We're just trying to improve Pit's game and get him noticed. And so what if people start being careful with Pit, that's better than underestimating him! And to all of you who say that he can't go that far are NOT helping.

I've heard a lot of people say that Pits Up B is easy to Gimp and that Falco's Up B is better. I think That Pits up B is better, and here's why. Falco's Up B is SHORT. If you push Falco far enough off the stage, he will not be able to get back no matter what you do. While Pit can get back up from any distance, and while you may be able to Gimp us, we have better Up B control than Falco. We can go under stages and come up to the other side, or do a plethora of other options with Pits many jumps. While Falco also falls fast (I think it's slower than Fox's, but it's still fast), which means you have less time to do things while people either push you farther with projectiles, or push you farther away. Although, Falco does have a better deflector than us.

And we shouldn't forget about AT's TOO much. It is important to learn the basics, if you haven't. GO LEARN THEM. As Gadiel said, you can't start improving if you don't know the basics. Once you learn the basics and start forming your OWN style of play, THEN go learn the AT's. And don't use them all the time, that just makes you predictable. Switch your game play up and be adaptable. Since Pit is one of the most adaptable in the game, you should make use of this. Use your specials, AT's, and your skills to the best of your advantage.

Don't let anyone discourage you, don't let anyone say that it's not worth it to learn Pit. And when you meet that person in battle... PROVE HIM WRONG.

 

[IrisKong]

I dont think its discouraging to say a character is not S tier. I main the **** character, I like him, I just know how the game works.

 

[XtricksterX]

pit vs mk match up is hard as heeeelllll! i thought camping would work and it kinda worked till the fool start to up-b like crazy, anyone know how i should take on mk?

 

[Jinxkatrina8]

I agree with you Gadiel. We aren't giving wrong information. We're just trying to improve Pit's game and get him noticed. And so what if people start being careful with Pit, that's better than underestimating him! And to all of you who say that he can't go that far are NOT helping.

I've heard a lot of people say that Pits Up B is easy to Gimp and that Falco's Up B is better. I think That Pits up B is better, and here's why. Falco's Up B is SHORT. If you push Falco far enough off the stage, he will not be able to get back no matter what you do. While Pit can get back up from any distance, and while you may be able to Gimp us, we have better Up B control than Falco. We can go under stages and come up to the other side, or do a plethora of other options with Pits many jumps. While Falco also falls fast (I think it's slower than Fox's, but it's still fast), which means you have less time to do things while people either push you farther with projectiles, or push you farther away. Although, Falco does have a better deflector than us.

Don't let anyone discourage you, don't let anyone say that it's not worth it to learn Pit. And when you meet that person in battle... PROVE HIM WRONG.

Saying that Pit doesn't have that much potential left in him, and saying that he can't go that far are two different things. Anyways, it's a valid criticism... What are people hurting by stating it? Pit's quest for world domination or something? A character will never improve if people choose to ignore their flaws and shortcomings.

Also, Where the hell did you hear that Falco's UpB is better? LMAO, Falco's upB is *not* that great! It makes Pit's recovery look like friggin MK's Anyways, why are you turning this into a Falco vs. Pit battle? I'm sorry, but I think that even Gladiel would agree that Pit is *not* better than Falco... CG, *pew pew pew*, shine, etc...

No one is trying to discourage people from using Pit and nobody is saying that it's not worth it to learn him... Nobody's hatin' on Pit, we're just saying that he's becoming just a *teensy* bit overrated.

 

[dualseeker]

Also, Where the hell did you hear that Falco's UpB is better? LMAO, Falco's upB is *not* that great! It makes Pit's recovery look like friggin MK's Anyways, why are you turning this into a Falco vs. Pit battle? I'm sorry, but I think that even Gladiel would agree that Pit is *not* better than Falco... CG, *pew pew pew*, shine, etc...

I didn't say that Pit is better than Falco. I said Pit's Up B is better than Falco's Up B. And I heard it in another Forum. Guess I took it a little too far with the Pit vs. Falco thing ^__^. I even said Falco's Deflector is better than Pit's. And, I'm not saying he can be S-tier or A-tier, but at least mid or low B-tier.

EDIT: @Trickster: You can ask that question in the "Ask a question, get an answer forum." It's the one with the question mark next to it.

 

[Jinxkatrina8]

Pit does have an excellent recovery. If you are so sure of yourself, why not challenge a top Pit like Koolaid and prove it. Personally I am almost never gimped. Pit can just glide over or under the stage, or use WOI, or just jump to safety. Pit has a very large amount of options and a strong Pit is rarely gimped.

I could go on and on about your post, but just go read Gheb's.

EDIT: 500th post [/QUOTE]


Okay, Pit's recovery is not *excellent*, it's great, but it has exploitable flaws. As far as i know, even Pit mains agree with me on this. If you are never gimped as Pit, *ever*, then you must be playing A: People who suck, B: Chars that have no offstage game, or gimping capabilities, or C: Ganons... Telling me to challenge Koolaid is an invalid statement also, for the love of all that is sacred, *of course* anyone would have issues gimping the best Pit out there, there's reasons why people are "the best", but having one amazing player doesn't put a character in the top tier... If that were true Ray Kalm would've put Ganon in at least the B tier.

"Pit has a large amount of options".... For recovery? If you consider 3 a large amount... As far as I know he has WOI (risky), three jumps, and a great glide. True, that's more than what some... A few... Characters have, but it's not S-tier

Also, I'm sorry, but Gheb's post is just... No... Pit's Fsmash *is not* that amazing It fails against any character who can DI... FFS, it can be p. shielded out of... *not* amazing, lol. His UTilt is good, I'll give him that, but it's not particularly amazing Having the ability to rack up damage quickly is something that nearly every character above low tier has. Having one particularly good attack for said activity is something pretty much every character has.

While Pit's projectile is good, it's not something that's going to put him at the top tier. Having one arrow that does 5-11% when fresh is not something that's going to move Pit up to the S tier. IMHO, TL's Projectile game is far better than Pits, and we don't see people clamoring for his immediate induction into the top tiers. His Uair isn't even *that* great, it'll only poke shields if it's under a platform, and the person's shielding it, and getting all the hits to connect is easier said than done. Dealing 12%... Max... not 15%+

So really, what you're saying is since Pit has good tools for dealing damage, and can't easily be juggled, that should put him in the A tier? Erm... no

I will agree with you that Pit shares a few traits with the top chars, but ffs, so does Jigglypuff and she's at 34


EDIT: Dualseeker, I think we've determined that indeed, Pit's UpB is better than Falco's UpB This calls for Falco and Pit to immediately switch spots on the tier list! Sarcasm... But you do see my point, one better attack says absolutely nothing. Jigglypuff's Fair is better than MK's Fair... Does this mean that Jigglypuff is better than MK? (they've actually got like a 45:55 MU... but that's beside the point )

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Pit does have an excellent recovery. If you are so sure of yourself, why not challenge a top Pit like Koolaid and prove it. Personally I am almost never gimped. Pit can just glide over or under the stage, or use WOI, or just jump to safety. Pit has a very large amount of options and a strong Pit is rarely gimped.

I could go on and on about your post, but just go read Gheb's.

EDIT: 500th post

Okay, Pit's recovery is not *excellent*, it's great, but it has exploitable flaws. As far as i know, even Pit mains agree with me on this. If you are never gimped as Pit, *ever*, then you must be playing A: People who suck, B: Chars that have no offstage game, or gimping capabilities, or C: Ganons... Telling me to challenge Koolaid is an invalid statement also, for the love of all that is sacred, *of course* anyone would have issues gimping the best Pit out there, there's reasons why people are "the best", but having one amazing player doesn't put a character in the top tier... If that were true Ray Kalm would've put Ganon in at least the B tier.

"Pit has a large amount of options".... For recovery? If you consider 3 a large amount... As far as I know he has WOI (risky), three jumps, and a great glide. True, that's more than what some... A few... Characters have, but it's not S-tier

Also, I'm sorry, but Gheb's post is just... No... Pit's Fsmash *is not* that amazing It fails against any character who can DI... FFS, it can be p. shielded out of... *not* amazing, lol. His UTilt is good, I'll give him that, but it's not particularly amazing Having the ability to rack up damage quickly is something that nearly every character above low tier has. Having one particularly good attack for said activity is something pretty much every character has.

While Pit's projectile is good, it's not something that's going to put him at the top tier. Having one arrow that does 5-11% when fresh is not something that's going to move Pit up to the S tier. IMHO, TL's Projectile game is far better than Pits, and we don't see people clamoring for his immediate induction into the top tiers. His Uair isn't even *that* great, it'll only poke shields if it's under a platform, and the person's shielding it, and getting all the hits to connect is easier said than done. Dealing 12%... Max... not 15%+

So really, what you're saying is since Pit has good tools for dealing damage, and can't easily be juggled, that should put him in the A tier? Erm... no

I will agree with you that Pit shares a few traits with the top chars, but ffs, so does Jigglypuff and she's at 34

EDIT: Dualseeker, I think we've determined that indeed, Pit's UpB is better than Falco's UpB This calls for Falco and Pit to immediately switch spots on the tier list! Sarcasm... But you do see my point, one better attack says absolutely nothing. Jigglypuff's Fair is better than MK's Fair... Does this mean that Jigglypuff is better than MK? (they've actually got like a 45:55 MU... but that's beside the point:

Pit shares more than a few qualities of the S/A tier characters. His recovery IS better than Snake, Diddy, Falco, Wario, IC...now that I think about it, Pit's recovery is 2nd best under MK! Of course Up-B can be gimped if used incorrectly, but he has 3 jumps and a glide to deal w/ his somewhat exploitable Up-B.

Nothing will change the community's view of Pit unless we have better tournament results. However, I encourage everyone to continue stating their opinions because this is what this thread about. People these days, "believe it when they see it." That's what the Pit commmunity has to work towards, and I promise everyone that this will become a reality in 2010.

 

[Jinxkatrina8]

"2nd best" is debatable. I'd personally say it's around the level of Kirby's recovery, if not slightly worse. Kirby has 5 jumps, final cutter, hammer, and is not as easy to gimp. R.O.B. has a nearly infinite recover, that isn't as gimpable... Hell, when it comes to horizontal recovery I'd say Jigg's is better.

Anyways... I would *love* to be proven totally wrong. I'd love to see Pit win tournaments, I like Pit, I like the Kid Icarus games, I like using him, but I seriously *do not* think he's really that good. Prove me wrong though

 

[Tetsion]

I say he has the potential to be in the top 10. Pit is like 4th on Japan tier list? (so i hear) and hes around the same for a mexican one (anyone realizes i been saying this since i got to registering here) I'd say for how us in America.. Pit is possibly like 9th or 10th on tier list. Now that isn't bad.

I don't see metaknight or snake changing places at all.

Metaknight = Sakurai
Snake = Creator of Snake ("Practically begged to have Snake in brawl - Sakurai")
--------------------------------------------
Diddy.. Falco..IC's/. Marth.. Wario..ddd.. Then debatable as to where Pit could be.. within this area.

He's up there.. just not "Broken" material imo. He's somewhere imho between 8th to 10th.

We already know most americans dont even like pit. The few that do can't place as high (usually) because of broken chars which imo are the top 3 atm.

reiterating

MetaKnight - Sakurai
SNake - Konami (lol forgot)
DIddy - Tripping MUST be a good idea.

Falco is more legit than those chars, he isn't hard as hell to fight back again. (PS: forgive this.. unorganized post. It's late xD i'm just typing this crap)

 

[Coffee™]

I still honestly find it hard to believe people are arguing about if Pits recovery is good or not.

 

[IrisKong]

well I guess I will put more match up discussions... and um, wario has a better recovery than us for the record.

 

[Coffee™]

Lol, no he doesn't. Its easier to gimp Wario than it is Pit.

 

[dualseeker]

That's true.

But now Raven has fallen into the recovery debate ^__^. Let's switch the subject to another one of Pit's uses.

 

[IrisKong]

I dont care about the recovery, or where he is on the tier list, I just want the community to hep each other and to grow.

 

[link2702]

a few things i myself have noticed about most other pit mains.....this part, if changed, would definatly help his tourny placings...but...maybe not so much his rep.


MOst other pit mains i've faced i've noticed....just flat out refuse to use some of pits best abilities to their fullest, what i mean by this is.....THEY REFUSE TO CAMP, OR USE PITS ARROWS! its like the majority of the community is scared to use their character, they try to perform the useless arrow trix, and the "very very VERY situational" WoI trix, rather then do what works....camping, they need to watch more of the japanese pits, japan camps their ***** off, and that is part of the reason he is top tier over there, BECAUSE IT WORKS! most other pit mains just need to realise...if it works, USE IT! Have you ever seen a falco who didn't camp his *** off and make you approach, then punish you for it? no. I have never seen a snake approach, but rather camp his *** off majority of the time, why? BECAUSE IT WORKS!

Well folks, guess what? pit is one of the best campers in the game, its obvious, but there is a problem, pit mains refuse to camp! they refuse to use WHAT WORKS!


...also...something that would help pits rep....are "a certain few pit mains" who need to quit acting like nutcases, and quit being so full of themself, as well as get rid of their short temper and bad attitude, ans that is part of the reason we're hated...cuz most of the smash community can't stand those "certain pit mains" that keep getting on their nerves.(pretty obvious which gold pit i'm talking about here, but thats not the main point of my post so ya...moving on)


my main point though is pits tourny results aren't as high as they should be cuz most pits are scared to use their character the way that would work best....they just FLAT out refuse to use his ability to camp.

 

[Katana_koden]

lol true

I have been using a lot less arrows lately.
I don't plank much. Unless in dire need of survival 160%+
Incorporate physical attack more just because im in low damage.

If we change that survival strategy into a much lower damage percent or always. We can do better also.

Its like seeing ally strategy change every time his damage goes over 100%.
Maybe we should do that at like 50% lol.