Importance of SHTL?

[PBnJ]

EDIT: I'm not looking for solutions for this anymore, so if you're thinking you're answering this for me, YOU'RE NOT.

Just starting to get into brawl again, and reverse SHTL is giving me a **** of a time. I even tried switching my controls to try and make it "easier":
Z-Special
B-Jump
Y-Grab

This made it a little easier to SHTL (reverse and regular) but I also ended up full jumping when not meaning to or side+b'ing by accident (this never happened for me with regular controls).

So I guess this would be my question: How vital is SHTL to fox's game? Or is SHDL sufficient? I've been away from smash for a good year and a half now, so I'm just curious how the fox metagame has "panned out."

I really don't want to screw with my controls just to get SHTL integrated to my game if I don't have to.

Additionally, it would be really nice if you didn't limit your responses to "it isn't that important" or "it is way important." Videos to people consistently using Triple in matches would probably be what I want most, because ultimately it is my decision if I go for it or not, eh?

 

[PK-ow!]

If you can slide your thumb from Y to B, you can pretty easily do SHTL.

I also have R configured to special, as some of the time it seems more natural to do yB RR. But I'm more consistent with yBBB.


As for reverse. . . umm, how would that ever be possible except for just... walking backwards for a frame or buffering a reverse input with the jump? You can't do anything other than flick the control stick back just before you hit Y.


As for meta, this tech could never possibly be crucial because Fox laser has no impact, but it is just as obviously of value. Getting one more laser is getting one more laser. You get everything the double laser gives you - in fact, it makes it easier to get a silent final laser (read: low laser) - and you get another laser.


The only obstacle to consistently doing it is remembering to. Any time you short hop, you can do SHTL. You have to commit from the jump, though, so I wouldn't see it apply. It's more important to get a laser cancel when you land from air time you didn't expect (i.e., you were launched). But, it's not as important for Fox as it is for Falco.

 

[Conviction]

SHTL is a large part of your camping game. Its pressures aerial characters like Wario to approach better than SHDL would, also it gives you that extra precent that counts in the long run. Watch TKD and his use of lasers and will see how you should be lasering.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I just claw whenever I SHTL, with my middle finger on Y and index finger on B. There's a rythym to it; instead of spamming B when you jump, SH and B immediately, then tap B twice again like a normal SHDL—you're buffering the first laser, I think, which makes it easier to SHTL.

 

[PBnJ]

If you can slide your thumb from Y to B, you can pretty easily do SHTL.

I also have R configured to special, as some of the time it seems more natural to do yB RR. But I'm more consistent with yBBB.

SLIDE thumb from Y to B? More like have a minor seizure haha. At least that's how it is for me.

That's pretty weird that you find BRR to be more natural in some cases, but whatever works right?

I agree with what you're saying about the how SHTL won't ever be absolutely crucial to having a good fox, but it will obviously help.

SHTL is a large part of your camping game. Its pressures aerial characters like Wario to approach better than SHDL would, also it gives you that extra precent that counts in the long run. Watch TKD and his use of lasers and will see how you should be lasering.

TKD it is. I'll watch some of his vids a little later and come back with more questions (or so I would expect).

 

[PBnJ]

I just claw whenever I SHTL, with my middle finger on Y and index finger on B. There's a rythym to it; instead of spamming B when you jump, SH and B immediately, then tap B twice again like a normal SHDL—you're buffering the first laser, I think, which makes it easier to SHTL.

I will definitely try this out

Thanks for the tip.

 

[crifer]

I think it´s pretty much mu dependant, if you nedd shtl or not.
1) to destroy the camping game of others (Snakes´nades are really easy to explode with shtl; D3´s projectile, maybe olimar)
2) against other good projectiles where you have to not get hit, you shouldn´t use shtl as much (falco, diddy)
3) characters that does not have projectiles and you can safely use shtl from the distance.


I can shtl with stick jump, but not consistently. (there is also the chance that you do a firefox which sucks).
I thought about that and came to the conclusion that if you use one hand for each button, you should not have that much problem with the speed.
I set L (because I don´t use it at all) to specials in order to have two hands for shtl. one for sh, one for blastering which makes it much more easier.

sorry for bad grammar.

 

[yummynbeefy]

hey look its PBnJ!!!

 

[PBnJ]

Do I know you?

 

[oOTjayOo]

Short hop triple lazor? that sounds like it could help alot

 

[GUARD]

I set L (because I don´t use it at all) to specials in order to have two hands for shtl. one for sh, one for blastering which makes it much more easier.

Using 2 hands instead of 1 helps FOR SURE..... I did something similar to you. instead of putting the (L) button to special, I put (L) to jump. so a quick tap on (L) to shorthop and you can spam (B) to laser at a pattern of like 3 - 4 presses.lol our ways seem to work well I`m sure. I have no problem SHTL at all now.

 

[crifer]

Using 2 hands instead of 1 helps FOR SURE..... I did something similar to you. instead of putting the (L) button to special, I put (L) to jump. so a quick tap on (L) to shorthop and you can spam (B) to laser at a pattern of like 3 - 4 presses.lol our ways seem to work well I`m sure. I have no problem SHTL at all now.

I never thought about doing it the other way, lol !!!
Actually yours could be a little bit easier because the L button has like ,idk how to explain it properly, the long way until the function "triggers". And since you have to put it three times yours should be better. I´ll try it out.

 

[TKD]

Blastering thrice in a short hop is worth it when you have time to since it hits the opponent twice if they short-hop, the above hit-boxes last a bit longer and the lower one is always the lowest possible from the air, making it consistent (since many players get nervous and can't blaster low every time).

If you used regular controls before, I recommend to switch back. I'd change...either X or Y, the one you don't jump with; for special (L, R and maybe Z are just too hard and will hurt or tire you in the long run from so much pressing). So you can reach it easier after short-hopping. I really don't know though; I use regular controls because my fingers are cool and I don't have to move my thumb to go from Y to X (tip of thumb for Y, middle of thumb for B...if you can do that then there you go).

There are much sillier configurations; I'm just recommending the one closest to regular that I can think of.

 

[Conviction]

LOL he is "cool"

I still find it easiest to use the control stick to Short hop and press B.

This way IS the coolest because you don't have to move one thumb to do all the work. Two is better tban one.

 

[Variable]

SHTL is good offline, but good luck trying on wifi if you play that for practice. -_-


I can't even consistantly SHL every match. It's odd. In the lobby I can SHL, SHDL SHTL, SH reverse laser, Silent Laser, anything really... When the game starts, nothing. I just sit there and jump. =/ Even when the connection is close to perfect it just doesn't happen. Kinda sucks.

 

[Conviction]

Don't pratice Laser techs on wifi.

Oh and have you iron out those dodging problems?

 

[Variable]

Don't pratice Laser techs on wifi.

Oh and have you iron out those dodging problems?

I'm not practicing it, I'm trying to actually do it in matches. But it's not really worth it. You can't consistantly do it anyways.

And yeah. I actually stayed up pretty late that night playing a bunch of sets and was playing really well.

 

[Conviction]

Ahh that's good. Let me know when you wanna play so I can see the improvement.

 

[Variable]

Ahh that's good. Let me know when you wanna play so I can see the improvement.

K gonna play tonight soon, but I'm not sure how much.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

i find it easy if you reflector as you land, i usually delay the jump anyway and need that little extra time in between shtl

 

[PBnJ]

My fingers are cool and I don't have to move my thumb to go from Y to X (tip of thumb for Y, middle of thumb for B...if you can do that then there you go).

Wait, what? You said that you don't have to move your thumb to go from Y to X, and then in parenthesis you mention Y to B. Is there just a typo in there somewhere? Because I can't even begin to fathom how you don't have to move your thumb from Y to B.

SHTL is good offline, but good luck trying on wifi if you play that for practice. -_-

I never play on wi-fi because I'd nerdrage pretty much every match. Offline is a completely different game than online.

i find it easy if you reflector as you land, i usually delay the jump anyway and need that little extra time in between shtl

lolwut? What controller and configuration do you use? I can't see why doing MORE would ever make it feel easier. But to each his own I guess.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

normal control setting, i just tap b 4 times really fast while pressing down the last time so i don't ground lazer

 

[RPK]

How to reverse SHTL
Dash
Immedietly RAR
SHTL to do a retreating version
????
Profit!!!

Also use your thumb so that it is overlapping the Y and the A button. The tip of your thumb should be on the Y button with your thumb kind of arcing. Your thumb should be applying no pressure to the Y button. From there, let the tip of your thumb slide off of the Y button directly onto the plastic of the controller. No lifting involved. If you did it right, you should hear a click sound. Congrats, thats the sound of you doing a Short hop with the Y button. If you did it right, the bend of your thumb should be directly over the B button. Do that short hop again with the Y button, and before you even hear the clicking sound, straighten out your thumb and use the middle of it to press the B button. Press the B button 3 times in rapid succession. Congrats, you just did a SHTL.

 

[TKD]

/\ You can't turn around after a while of having started a dash. You should only depend on a "RAR" ("reverse aerial rave"; moving the control stick towards your back a while after starting a dash so that the character turns around trying to dash towards the other direction) if you dash a long enough distance towards the same direction, which takes longer (and more distance) and won't happen every time.

Here's a video of the input with regular control scheme and a detailed description of the technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMIObkVZ3oA

PBnJ, it was a typo. I meant "Y" to "B". I don't use the "X" button.

 

[RPK]

Huh...I probably meant to say it differently...was it dash, Sh, press opposite direction, then triple laser? CAuse I know if you tap the opposite direction and then B it will turn you around and you'll shoot another laser. MAybe I meant to put in that...Bleh...No wii sucks so I cant really say the exact inputs...

 

[718_ROOKI3]

Just starting to get into brawl again, and reverse SHTL is giving me a **** of a time. I even tried switching my controls to try and make it "easier":
Z-Special
B-Jump
Y-Grab

This made it a little easier to SHTL (reverse and regular) but I also ended up full jumping when not meaning to or side+b'ing by accident (this never happened for me with regular controls).

So I guess this would be my question: How vital is SHTL to fox's game? Or is SHDL sufficient? I've been away from smash for a good year and a half now, so I'm just curious how the fox metagame has "panned out."

I really don't want to screw with my controls just to get SHTL integrated to my game if I don't have to.

Additionally, it would be really nice if you didn't limit your responses to "it isn't that important" or "it is way important." Videos to people consistently using Triple in matches would probably be what I want most, because ultimately it is my decision if I go for it or not, eh?

I jump with X and i make my Y special and just buffer it perfectly.
XYYY
XYYY
XYYY
and that's it. I think everyone should learn it but alot of ppl don't jump with X =(

 

[M@v]

Btw rookie turned to the dark side finally. All you got left is TKD.

 

[718_ROOKI3]

Btw rookie turned to the dark side finally. All you got left is TKD.

LOL... ON BLAST! Mav lemee correct you! I Still have Fox on my tournament character roster. I was just practicing with him today. So i didn't give him up, I just choose to main a far better character. Fox is still god-like.

 

[Asce]

I dont get it...guys you can SHTL! YOU CAN DO IT!! Y>BBB just make sure you slide the first part (Y>B) and you'll buffer just fine. Get into training mode for an hour and a half and youll have it down. I don't have tap jump but i dont reccoment using the Control stick for SHTL anyway :/ buttons are just my preference.

Its all about getting the muscle memory.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Btw rookie turned to the dark side finally. All you got left is TKD.

M@v GTFO of the Fox boards!

*Continues trolling M@V ever since he left Fox as a main*

LOL... ON BLAST! Mav lemee correct you! I Still have Fox on my tournament character roster. I was just practicing with him today. So i didn't give him up, I just choose to main a far better character. Fox is still god-like.

Rookie GTFO!!!! Diddy Kong main....what a *****!

Spoiler

JK! I love you Rook no matter what character you use. You were a huge asset to the Fox metagame back in the day! Your contribution will never be forgotten.

 

[Variable]

M@v GTFO of the Fox boards!

*Continues trolling M@V ever since he left Fox as a main*



Rookie GTFO!!!! Diddy Kong main....what a *****!

Spoiler

JK! I love you Rook no matter what character you use. You were a huge asset to the Fox metagame back in the day! Your contribution will never be forgotten.

No! The Dark side doesn't have cookies I promise it's a lie!


I SHTL with B button. It isn't hard.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I use l to jump and just b to shoot.

 

[Lesleyk]

Don't know if anyone came up with this, if so ignore this post. Thought I tried something new with my controller settings

If you go to your controller settings and change all your taunts to special its possible to jump with X and use your special with your left hand (tapping the taunt buttons). SHTL is quite easy if you do that.

It does has a downside to it, It's impossible to move and SHTL at the same time.

My favorite is using X to jump and Y as special, but I personally think using "X" as jump and "taunt buttons" as special much easier

 

[PBnJ]

Well, seeing as this is still getting replies, I guess I might as well reply back.

TKD's method is easily the best. The youtube video is perfect for teaching it.

I'm not looking for solutions for this anymore, so if you're thinking you're answering this for me, YOU'RE NOT.

 

[meepxzero]

i just picked up fox uhhh... shtl is easiest for me if i set one of the taunts as a b button. Theres no way you can do it off a dash with this setting, but it pushes the stress off one hand doing all the work and puts it on two instead. I respect anyone that can do it with one hand im old and i dont have the dexterity i use to have

 

[Hanzhou]

I use L and B or jump(tap jump on) and B. I have to use L to do it consistently

 

[Rohan]

i use tap jump and it seems impossible to shtl..... any advice?

 

[4Biddin]

P.S.A for all fox mainers
(I main fox and consider myself top 4 at the least even though ive only been to a few tourneys)

Learn SHTL it will greatly improve your win ratio. When I say learn SHTL i mean LEARN SHTL to the point you can do it at anytime and as fast as possible while keeping your mobility check out TKD's vids verses Tryant that will give you a good idea of what lazar pressure can do for you.

 

[AvaricePanda]

West Lafayette as in West Lafayette Indiana? Are you going to Renegade's tournament this Saturday?

 

[Conviction]

P.S.A for all fox mainers
(I main fox and consider myself top 4 at the least even though ive only been to a few tourneys)

Erhm....yea I really doubt that. I'm need some proof to back that up. Even still there are other Foxes breaking into high level play such as Light, NBK, Uzi, and I'm finally making there it too. Also there are our high level Foxes, TKD, Trevonte, CloudRain, Lyslek (sorry people if I forgot you). So yea once again I highly doubt this.