IMO sheik vs marth can be 50-50

[Archangel]

pro tip: objectively, fox wins all matchups 100-0 on perfect level. Saying that anyone wins over him is basically saying that a good X wins over a bad fox.

some points:
Marth should always have to approach, if you even get into the situation of overshooting and dd game instead of him countering your approaches then hes playing it wrong.

You forgot to mention that shine wins over grab, and running shine needs prediction to be punished.

Why would he need to go into full run to approach? he can just do quick dash turns to keep him able to turn around. He can also WD/Shield/jump etc.

Marth cannot deal with good platform camping (shield drop abuse + mango v taj style drops annihilate him)

Marth cannot kill him reliably (esp if he platform camps) while fox kills him at 70.

Fox is at an advantage when he is on the edge because of his broken wd with invincibility and safe stall which means marth cannot corner him.

oh and you cannot cc in a dash dance and his nair is safe on cc over 25% and asdi "cc" is moreor less only useable vs his dash attack and jab (add this to grab,shine and dair beating any cc).


cba writing more, mm at apex niko ;D

You're Mediocre. Why should anyone listen to you?

 

[Niko45]

umm I guess we can MM even tho it's completely besides the point.

I mean it's not like I've never lost to Fox before...lol

 

[Diggs]

I've always claimed it's 55-45 at worst.

I agree in general, Marth players are lazy and complain too much about Sheik's gayness.


Marth is as gay as her.

That's not true,i play marth and never complain about sheik,plus i know plenty of ppl who arent lazy with marth and r really good

 

[Diggs]

i play marth,yet i can't fight one,duz that make any sense?

 

[OverLord]

You really get what a generalization is.

 

[knightpraetor]

pro tip: objectively, fox wins all matchups 100-0 on perfect level. Saying that anyone wins over him is basically saying that a good X wins over a bad fox.

some points:
Marth should always have to approach, if you even get into the situation of overshooting and dd game instead of him countering your approaches then hes playing it wrong.

You forgot to mention that shine wins over grab, and running shine needs prediction to be punished.

Why would he need to go into full run to approach? he can just do quick dash turns to keep him able to turn around. He can also WD/Shield/jump etc.

Marth cannot deal with good platform camping (shield drop abuse + mango v taj style drops annihilate him)

Marth cannot kill him reliably (esp if he platform camps) while fox kills him at 70.

Fox is at an advantage when he is on the edge because of his broken wd with invincibility and safe stall which means marth cannot corner him.

oh and you cannot cc in a dash dance and his nair is safe on cc over 25% and asdi "cc" is moreor less only useable vs his dash attack and jab (add this to grab,shine and dair beating any cc).


cba writing more, mm at apex niko ;D

disagree with statement 3, shine wins over grab...learn to space grab properly

disagree with statement 5; imo marths get wrecked by platform camping when they try to approach too quickly..it's funny on the ground they take the time to dashdance, but when fox is all over the platforms they just go in like idiots.

disagree with statement 6....fox on platforms is a combo video..i'm kind of amazed you can even make that kind of statement.

agree with this:

Fox is at an advantage when he is on the edge because of his broken wd with invincibility and safe stall which means marth cannot corner him.


fox has an easier time getting back than marth.

but my practice partner is practicing wd on lately....and honestly punishing it is not that hard unless they start queueing rolls out of it..you just hard predict it...sure it weakens your coverage of other stuff fox can do to get on stage..but the other stuff isn't that scary....spacing for a hard predict waveland on also gives you the space you need to destroy phantasm on stage on reaction...

so the options that will win assuming you cover the waveland on in place properly are stand on or waveland the platform....both of which can be pressured even after hard predicting and adjusting your spacing for the waveland on.

disagree highly with this statement
his nair is safe on cc over 25%

this highly depends on where the nair hits and how the marth is DIing. If your statement were actually true, armada would have a hell of a time dealing with foxes..but the reality is even though a shine may get out after a nair...guaranteeing the spacing where the shine will actually be in range is not nearly so easy.

 

[Mahie]

I don't think you can cover a perfect ledgedash > shine from Fox. You'd need to retreat then punish after the shine, which is what Leffen is saying afaik.

 

[mexicanmax227]

It all depends on marth. He has the tools and can combo sheik if he gets the right hits. Smarter play on the marth mains part and being able to adjust and not be predictable are what i think can make him a better character again.
Discuss

Hands down Marth is the better player NEVER BE SCARED IF DASH ATTACK!!( unless your high percent. Minijump roll full jump counter crouch cancel grab take hit and d I down( if your low percent then your grounded with sheild up) so many ways out of dash sheild grab, I learned through exp sheiks will either camp or just run grab after being felt with these troublesome options. Also I recommend always starting with nair sidestep dodge in their face then you can either up b or dash past, or wait for sidestep or dash awayfrom. I usually always up b because it's agrro. I also get really sick tippers when I grab back throw my sheik opponents kinda like Ken vs mango set 2 games. I never use my sword dance finisher up tilt more than twice and bever use it first game especially against sheik. I usually just edge guard very well and dart that's one of Marths greatest things in this match up. Sheik literally will go crazy and approach silly likeonce you mentally screw her play gay by being different not by camping.

 

[mexicanmax227]

Oh yeah I throw in up tilts in separate games too ya now in between games once you condition your opponent with first game swith up style 2nd game.

 

[net1234]

lolol 2 years ago archangel called leffen mediocre